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Thread: Republican Form of Government

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Republican Form of Government

    The one thing Americans have that is unique among all other nations is the republican form of government. Ironically, not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define it nor its source. I certainly couldn't before I began to research law and history.

    Contrary to popular belief (or mythology) it's not synonymous with 'republic' nor is it a 'constitutional republic.'

    What are its attributes?
    Under the republican form, the people have endowed rights (liberties, etc) and absolute ownership of themselves, their labor and that which they acquired by their harmless labor.
    In American law, governments are instituted to secure those endowed rights, and can only govern (rule) those who consent to be governed. Those who did not consent, are not governed. All that government may do is help secure their rights (adjudicate disputes, prosecute criminals, and defend against enemies, foreign or domestic).

    However, those who consent, transfer to the constitutionally limited indirect democratic form of government, and are subjects, obligated to perform mandatory civic duties, in exchange for privileges and immunities (ex: 'civil rights').

    =:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
    Restating the situation, concisely - - -
    RFOG:
    {source: Declaration of Independence}
    [] Natural rights
    [] Natural liberty
    [] Personal liberty
    [] Absolute ownership
    [] Sovereign, served by government
    (Owes nothing to the government)
    . . .
    DFOG:
    {source: compact / constitution}
    [] Civil rights
    [] Civil liberty
    [] Political liberty
    [] Qualified ownership
    [] Subject of the government, by consent
    (Owes mandatory civic duties, etc)
    . . .
    When reading any American law ask yourself:
    ● Is this law securing the rights of an injured party?
    ● Is this law imposed upon only those who gave consent?
    ● Is this law internal to the administration of the government?
    . . .


    Here are THREE definitions that describe aspects associated with the REPUBLICAN FORM
    ...
    COMMONWEALTH - ...It generally designates, when so employed, a republican form of government, - one in which the welfare and rights of the entire mass of people are the main consideration, rather than the privileges of a class or the will of the monarch...
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 278

    SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
    ...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425

    GOVERNMENT (Republican Form of Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people... directly...
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695
    ...
    Restating, in the references to a “republican form” we can see the following characteristics of it:
    [] People directly exercise sovereignty (over themselves and their private property, absolutely owned)
    [] People are not subjects of a sovereign (citizens are subjects, by definition)
    [] The welfare and rights of the entire mass of people are the main consideration

    RELATED TO SOVEREIGN PEOPLE (non-citizen Nationals)
    "The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states, ... shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states ..."
    [Article IV of the Articles of Confederation (1777)]
    “Free inhabitants” = sovereigns___
    “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion. . .”
    - - - United States Constitution, Article 4, Section 4.

    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the PEOPLE.”
    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the PEOPLE.”
    - - - Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution

    . . .
    Under the subsection: CONSTITUTION
    Sec. 4. The guarantee of a republican form of government to every "state" means to its people and not to its government: Texas v. White. 7 Wall. (U. S.) 700, 19 L. Ed. 227.
    - - - Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 8th ed. (1914), P.635

    What rights and what powers? __
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
    - - - Declaration of Independence, 1776
    Note: PEOPLE (sovereigns) have rights and powers (endowed by our Creator).
    Citizens (subjects) have privileges and immunities (granted by the government).

    Citizens are NOT sovereigns
    CITIZEN - ... Citizens are members of a political community who, in their associative capacity, have established or SUBMITTED themselves to the dominion of government for the promotion of the general welfare and the protection of their individual as well as collective rights.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p.244

    "... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "SUBJECT" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
    - - - State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)

    SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
    ...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
    (Note: there is only one country with a "republican form" of government)

    Article 4, Section 2 - State citizens
    The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
    Recapping:
    • People have rights and powers. (Endowments or inherent rights)
    • Citizens have privileges and immunities. (often mislabeled as "rights" - i.e. "civil rights")
    The source of the republican form is the Declaration of Independence wherein it declares all men (or Americans in our case) are endowed with rights by our Creator. These rights were not grants of government, so they cannot be dependent upon the constitutional government, nor any vote. And only by consent of the governed, may the government rule. This is why no other nation, after 1776, instituted a "republican form."
    No other nation asserted that their people were sovereigns, superior to the governments instituted to serve them.

    Even the French Revolution did not elevate the French to individual sovereignty
    https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Declarati...Rights_of_Man…
    Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen

    It is a tribute to the world's greatest propaganda ministry, that so few Americans know of their magnificent heritage and birthright that the founding generation fought and died to bestow upon their posterity.


    = = =

    More information already posted here:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...u-Pee-Yourself
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    THE UNEXPECTED
    ==\==\==
    It was wholly unexpected but America took to the bitter medicine solution

    The “peaceful” counter revolution to the socialist revolution of 1933 consisted of:

    [] Wholesale withdrawal from FICA and citizenship - crippling the tax revenue stream and power of consent. The Collapse / Repeal of national socialism / Socialist InSecurity. The End of the “State of Emergency,” and the repeal of all laws and executive orders authorized under said emergency.

    [] 97% reduction in Federal Budget. Downsizing of all government - federal, state and local. Beyond securing rights, adjudicating disputes, the government could do little more - no armies of subjects to command - no vast budgets. Governments could no longer borrow. Period. A government that borrows is admitting that it wants to take MORE from the people than they are willing to give.

    [] Infrastructure sold off / donated to Americans who accepted the responsibility to build, operate and maintain it.

    [] The repeal of the 14th amendment, ending “citizenship at birth,” and the public debt was voided for fraud. In addition, usury was abolished, and no court could be used to enforce contracts for usury. This voided all government bonds and notes, including the Federal Reserve note, which ceased to be fungible on private debts. This also abolished insurance underwriters who used gambling and usury.

    [] Restoration of gold and silver coin. However, due to their scarcity, alternative mediums of exchange were recognized, such as private promissory notes (Liberty money). Laws were enacted to severely punish counterfeiters, etc., etc. Local commerce was especially receptive to alternative mediums of exchange, such as private promissory notes or other means to account for trade that do not rely on scarce precious metal coin. Foreign trade is mostly barter and three party trades since no international currency was sufficiently trusted for equitable trade.

    [] Cessation of all hostilities on foreign soil. Repatriation of all military personnel and material from foreign bases. End of all foreign aid / bribery. Sell off assets to private parties. Private people are no longer prohibited from possessing military grade items.

    [] Cease participating in the United Nations and politely ask them to move their headquarters to another nation.

    [] No franchise for recipients. No recipient of public funds can vote in any election for a period no less than two years from last disbursement (Beggars can’t be choosers). However, with the end of ‘voluntary’ socialism, there are few recipients affected.

    [] No privilege of limited liability (i.e., investors, board members and officers of corporations, etc, are 100% liable) - eliminates the need for regulations and bureaucracy to administer and enforce. Deregulation of healthcare, medicine and medical materials.

    [] Wealth is not prosperity. Prosperity is the creation, trade, and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services. Anything that impedes that is contrary to good sense.

    CONSEQUENCES:::
    __ Wholesale emigration of “illegal” immigrants who no longer can get socialist freebies, undercut “legal” workers, nor participate in the private promissory note economies.
    __ 80 to 90 million “potential” laborers desperately seeking means to discharge their private notes, and maintain their honor - or else.
    __ No public funded pensions, resulting in a resurgence of private charities to fill the gap.
    __ Intolerance of predators caused an initial high death rate, followed by a general shift from predatory behavior.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 23rd April 2016 at 23:02.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    [] Wholesale withdrawal from FICA and citizenship - crippling the tax revenue stream and power of consent. The Collapse / Repeal of national socialism / Socialist InSecurity. The End of the “State of Emergency,” and the repeal of all laws and executive orders authorized under said emergency.


    I believe we should enumerate the precise, tangible steps needed to achieve this, along with the proper terms to protect one's self from presumptuous authorities. On any contact with enforcement, bear in mind they have superior numbers, handcuffs, jails, and weapons, to which any fact of law will vanish in the rush of injury or trespass they may commit. Primarily when traveling upon public roads with an unregistered vehicle, that will attract a lot of attention, and if you don't choose your words wisely, you'll have a face full of pavement.

    Such as: the return of the Social Security card to its owner, cancellation of account, disassociation of one's name from the number. Does this make the IRS forget you? How should one accept work with a corporation that will sally forth with those withholding certificates?

    Cancel voter registration.

    Cancel state-issued ID and obtain passport designating one's status as American national and informing Secretary of State of this change. Get rid of any type of licenses and insurance.

    Discharge debts and cancel interest-bearing accounts; banks, 401k and the like. One may continue to circulate FRNs and use them to purchase money orders--I think. Silver dollars a good choice, also look for local currencies and scrips.

    Birth certificate--is this important and what should one do?

    Inhabit private property, not residential property.

    Is this accurate? Seems more a matter of removing things, than taking an oath or doing a bunch of patriotic grandstanding. You will still be paying taxes, mostly just sales taxes. Concerning doctors and hospitals, I try to stay away, but if you wind up there...well, I'm not sure how they can collect from you besides a judgement.
    Last edited by shaberon; 23rd April 2016 at 21:15.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    [] Wholesale withdrawal from FICA and citizenship - crippling the tax revenue stream and power of consent. The Collapse / Repeal of national socialism / Socialist InSecurity. The End of the “State of Emergency,” and the repeal of all laws and executive orders authorized under said emergency.
    I believe we should enumerate the precise, tangible steps needed to achieve this,
    [Already covered in this post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1056039 ]

    along with the proper terms to protect one's self from presumptuous authorities.
    [There are some bad apples, but in general, good public servants are no risk]

    On any contact with enforcement, bear in mind they have superior numbers, handcuffs, jails, and weapons, to which any fact of law will vanish in the rush of injury or trespass they may commit. Primarily when traveling upon public roads with an unregistered vehicle, that will attract a lot of attention, and if you don't choose your words wisely, you'll have a face full of pavement.
    [Establishing that the vehicle is PRIVATE PROPERTY is key. One respondent went so far as to get an ex parte ruling that his car was his private property. He posted the court order on the side of his vehicle. When stopped, he directs the Officer to read the ruling and reminds him of the penalties for contempt of a court order.]


    Such as: the return of the Social Security card to its owner, cancellation of account, disassociation of one's name from the number.
    [It's THEIR record for THEIR use, not yours. If you cease participating, it doesn't matter.]

    Does this make the IRS forget you?
    [Anecdote: I left Socsec in 1993. A friend with access to credit databanks found that every year the Eye Are Us does a check on what was once "my" number.]

    How should one accept work with a corporation that will sally forth with those withholding certificates?
    [Being an employee without enumeration, etc, is the hardest task, since most employers are misled by accountants to comply or die. Best advice is to be a business. However, this might be useful: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=173066&page=3 Regarding the "TACO BELL" incident.]

    Cancel voter registration.

    Cancel state-issued ID
    [If the state issues ID to non-resident inhabitants, it's not a disability]

    and obtain passport designating one's status as American national and informing Secretary of State of this change. Get rid of any type of licenses and insurance.
    [No need to change passport. All passports state that they're for citizens / nationals of the United States of America.]

    Discharge debts and cancel interest-bearing accounts; banks, 401k and the like. One may continue to circulate FRNs and use them to purchase money orders--I think. Silver dollars a good choice, also look for local currencies and scrips.

    Birth certificate--is this important and what should one do?
    [It's a convenience, not a disability.]

    Inhabit private property, not residential property.

    Is this accurate? Seems more a matter of removing things, than taking an oath or doing a bunch of patriotic grandstanding. You will still be paying taxes, mostly just sales taxes.
    [Once one has a "foreign domicile" one might contact the State department under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and see about getting a state sales tax exemption. http://www.state.gov/ofm/tax/sales/]

    Concerning doctors and hospitals, I try to stay away, but if you wind up there...well, I'm not sure how they can collect from you besides a judgement.
    [If your state has anti-peonage statutes, and you're under the limit, you're judgment proof for the most part.]
    Even if one cannot take all the steps necessary to withdraw consent, badgering the public servants with questions should be a "wake up" call.


    Reference:
    FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IMMUNITIES ACT OF 1976
    28 USC § 1603. Definitions
    For purposes of this chapter --
    (a) A "foreign state", ...
    (3) which is neither a citizen of a State of the United States as defined in section 1332 (c) and (d) of this title, nor created under the laws of any third country.
    (An American national, free inhabitant, non-citizen of a State of the U.S., nor under the laws of any third country appears to fit the definition.)

    Being "foreign" is no disability.
    FEDERAL CORPORATIONS - The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.
    - - - Volume 19, Corpus Juris Secundum XVIII.
    Foreign Corporations, Sections 883,884
    People = state, regarding the republican form
    Under the subsection: CONSTITUTION
    Sec. 4. The guarantee of a republican form of government to every "state" means to its people and not to its government: Texas v. White. 7 Wall. (U. S.) 700, 19 L. Ed. 227.
    - - - Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 8th ed. (1914), P.635
    American people, in a state, are "foreign" to the Federal government (unless they consented to be U.S. citizens, etc, etc.).


    There are anti-peonage statutes, where the government cannot involuntarily pauperize someone. In the Georgia State constitution, Art 1, Sec 1, Para 26, there is a constitutional exemption of 1600 dollars.
    "Exemptions from levy and sale.
    The General Assembly shall protect by law from levy and sale by virtue of any process under the laws of this state a portion of the property of each person in an amount of not less than $1,600.00 and shall have authority to define to whom any such additional exemptions shall be allowed; to specify the amount of such exemptions; to provide for the manner of exempting such property and for the sale, alienation, and encumbrance thereof; and to provide for the waiver of said exemptions by the debtor."
    Neighboring states also have such exemptions.

    If I buy my land for $21 (silver) and my house for $21 (silver) and my automobile for $21, and so on for 72 more purchases, my private property is EXEMPT for the most part, and I am judgment proof.

    Anti-peonage laws are important, because servant government cannot compel one to be a pauper at law. That's another reason why FICA is 100% voluntary.
    This is why WITHDRAWING CONSENT is vital to restoring one's legal status as a freeman - and if an inhabitant - a sovereign American national.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 23rd April 2016 at 23:03.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Awesome. What about any other word games we would be best to handle with kid gloves?

    For example, if you tell a judge, policeman, etc....that you understand him--you stand under him, no longer sovereign but as a subject.

    If you agree you are a person, you are a persona, "mask", filling a state office, thereby a servant.

    Just wanting to prevent verbal submissions that produce further complications--such as hiring an attorney, whose job it is to "turn" property from one set of hands to another.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Awesome. What about any other word games we would be best to handle with kid gloves?

    For example, if you tell a judge, policeman, etc....that you understand him--you stand under him, no longer sovereign but as a subject.
    [No data in support of that conclusion, to my knowledge.]

    If you agree you are a person, you are a persona, "mask", filling a state office, thereby a servant.
    [Agree about WHAT? A person or "their person?"]

    Just wanting to prevent verbal submissions that produce further complications--such as hiring an attorney, whose job it is to "turn" property from one set of hands to another.
    What if's can go on forever.

    Boiled down, after withdrawing consent, the only legitimate reason to GO TO government is to get help securing rights. And the only legitimate reason for the government to COME TO you is to secure rights of an injured party.

    As to the other 'crimes' involving consent (malum prohibitum), one should check the original statutes to verify that such laws cannot apply to you, since you retained all your endowed / inherent / private rights, and no statute can be construed to violate them unless securing the rights of an injured party.

    Generally excluded from "governing" statutes:
    • Sovereigns (by the use of 'person' or 'any person')
    • Private property absolutely owned
    • Natural liberty
    • Personal liberty
    • Natural rights

    Even if not explicitly listed in the statute, one can still be excluded.
    SHALL - As used in statutes, contracts, or the like, this word is generally imperative or mandatory... But it may be construed as merely permissive or directory (as equivalent to "may"), to carry out the legislative intention and in cases where no right or benefit depends on its being taken in the imperative sense, and where no public or private right is impaired by its interpretation in the other sense.
    - - - Blacks Law dictionary, Sixth ed., p.1375

    MAY - Word "may" usually is employed to imply permissive, optional or discretional, and not mandatory action or conduct... In construction of statutes and presumably of federal rules word "may" as opposed to "shall" is indicative of discretion or choice between two or more alternatives, but context is which word appears must be controlling factor.
    - - - Blacks Law dictionary, Sixth ed., p.979
    If a law states, "It shall be unlawful..." and you can show that if the law was mandatory in your case it would violate a PRIVATE RIGHT, the law can be construed to mean "It may be unlawful..." and merely optional, permissive or directory, without penalty for disobedience.

    (This exclusion is in addition to exemptions, exclusions, and clauses based on the law not violating endowed rights and liberties of the sovereign people.)

    Hurrah for the republican form of government.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Well for example, when I have endowed liberty to travel upon public roadways, I still find in my state statute:

    G.S. 20
    -
    7

    § 20
    -
    7. Issuance and renewal of drivers licenses.
    (a)
    License Required.

    To drive a motor vehicle on a highway, a person must be
    licensed by the Division under this Article or Article 2C of this Chapter to drive the vehicle and
    must carry the license while driving the vehicle. The Division issues regular drivers licenses
    under this Article and issues commercial drivers licenses under Article 2C.

    Can I interpret "must" as "shall" which may mean "may", or am I simply--not a person? Is that what you mean by, sovereigns are excluded by the use of "person" or "any person"? I was trying to say, don't agree with a policeman who asks if, or suggests that you are a person. It is a legal term referring to the subject/object of these statutes, and does not mean a sovereign human being, even when expressed as "natural person".

    Black's definition PERSON. A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the right to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes.

    Man would seem to indicate any type of human being, but then it refers to entitled rights and duties, and certainly the statute would conflict with the endowed right of liberty.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Well for example, when I have endowed liberty to travel upon public roadways, I still find in my state statute:

    G.S. 20
    -
    7

    § 20
    -
    7. Issuance and renewal of drivers licenses.
    (a)
    License Required.

    To drive a motor vehicle on a highway, a person must be
    licensed by the Division under this Article or Article 2C of this Chapter to drive the vehicle and
    must carry the license while driving the vehicle. The Division issues regular drivers licenses
    under this Article and issues commercial drivers licenses under Article 2C.

    Can I interpret "must" as "shall" which may mean "may", or am I simply--not a person? Is that what you mean by, sovereigns are excluded by the use of "person" or "any person"? I was trying to say, don't agree with a policeman who asks if, or suggests that you are a person. It is a legal term referring to the subject/object of these statutes, and does not mean a sovereign human being, even when expressed as "natural person".

    Black's definition PERSON. A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the right to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes.

    Man would seem to indicate any type of human being, but then it refers to entitled rights and duties, and certainly the statute would conflict with the endowed right of liberty.
    DRIVER'S LICENSE - The certificate or license issued by a state which authorizes a person to operate a motor vehicle. Generally, a written and driving examination is required for obtaining such.
    - - - Black's Law dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 495

    TRAFFIC - Commerce; trade; sale or exchange of merchandise, bills, money, and the like. The passing or exchange of goods or commodities from one person to another for an equivalent in goods or money. The subjects of transportation on a route, as persons or goods ...
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1495

    Title 18 USC Sec. 31 : When used in this chapter the term - ... “MOTOR VEHICLE” means every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and USED FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo...
    - - - Title 18 USC Sec. 31
    "used for commercial purposes"
    (Due to Federal funding for roads and highways, federal definitions do apply.)

    Ever notice that tractor trailers often have a sign : "No Riders".
    Why not "No Passengers"?
    Because they ARE licensed to carry passengers. Riders are not passengers.
    A "passenger auto" is a commercial vehicle, hauling passengers for hire.

    There are no licensing requirements for those who ride automobiles that are not motor vehicles.

    And only 'residents' can get licenses. Generally, non-residents do not need licenses.
    " PERSONAL LIBERTY largely consists of the Right of locomotion to go where and when one pleases only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or AUTOMOBILE, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
    - - - II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135.
    Traveling by automobile is not synonymous with driving a motor vehicle.
    "In common usage, the term 'person' does not include the sovereign, [and] statutes employing the [word] are ordinarily construed to exclude it."
    Wilson v. Omaha Indian Tribe, 442 U.S. 653, 667, 61 L.Ed2. 153, 99 S.Ct. 2529 (1979)
    (quoting United States v. Cooper Corp. 312 U.S. 600, 604, 85 L.Ed. 1071, 61S.Ct. 742 (1941)).

    "A Sovereign cannot be named in any statute as merely a 'person' or 'any person'".
    Wills v. Michigan State Police, 105 L.Ed. 45 (1989)
    Just another example of "Term Warfare."
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    I was surprised to see that out of 6 votes (including mine) that 4 people thought A) was the answer.

    I guess in a perfect world it would be, but I rather think the point is that any rights are granted and if you should dare look into them too deeply you'll find they're all smoke and mirrors anyway. You are born into a controlled system with no real rights whatsoever.

    Though arguably, as some long term detainess have discovered, freedom is in the mind.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    I was surprised to see that out of 6 votes (including mine) that 4 people thought A) was the answer.

    I guess in a perfect world it would be, but I rather think the point is that any rights are granted and if you should dare look into them too deeply you'll find they're all smoke and mirrors anyway. You are born into a controlled system with no real rights whatsoever.

    Though arguably, as some long term detainess have discovered, freedom is in the mind.
    Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, certain rights ARE endowed / inherent / sacred.
    HOWEVER
    The exercise of those rights may require stiff defense.

    To illustrate:
    You meet a hungry lion in the jungle.
    Q: Whose right to life is superior?
    A: The one who can best defend it.

    In American law, governments were instituted among men to secure those endowed rights, so that people triumph over 'hungry lions' (predatory people).
    I can't say anything that conclusive about other nations' governments.

    Also, there's the problem of infiltration by predators into government. Then what was created to benefit the harmless people, changes into a tormentor of the harmless people.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Well, it's not so much what we think as an opinion--it's what was declared to be a fact, that rights are inherent and natural--only in America. It may not even be true in a scientific sense, but it's what was said at the time, and written into the supreme law of the land, and that still stands.

    Even in the thread title, it's not about "a Republic", those are everywhere, and say nothing about the form of government. Here, all the free people are as monarchs without subjects. But most of us are not free, having surrendered to "term warfare" and "free money"--those are the U. S. citizens. Sadly, I'm one; if I cannot satisfactorily establish my freedom, then my last resort will be to go become a subject of someone else. The smoke and mirrors is so heavy, I'd say about 99.9% of what's available on the internet about American freedom is still quite misleading--ozmirage is one of the few who stays directly on point about it. I never questioned whether I was a "person" until a few weeks ago, but if I want to be one of the free people, I can't be a person.

    I may be operating a motor vehicle commercially when I go buy things, but if I cease being a person doing so, then the licensing statutes do not apply.

    If we succeed in uplifting America from bondage, perhaps other populations can follow suit. When surrendering, Cornwallis threatened us with one world government headed by the British empire as being inevitable; conquest or consent were the choices according to E. M. House. I say, release the third choice: sovereign individuals who have private property. From all recorded history, the issues are essentially about property and its control.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    THERE WAS ONCE A NATION ...

    There was once a nation, founded on the ideal of self government. Not a participatory democratic form, mind you. But that each individual governed himself - as a sovereign - master of his own domain. (See: Republican Form of Government)

    Of course, when beset by predators, it helps to cooperate and unite in mutual defense. A subset of civic minded folks offered their services to “help” secure rights - you know - prosecute deliberate trespass and adjudicate accidental trespass.

    This subset was drawn from not more than 3 to 5% of the populace, who had successfully revolted against their former sovereign. These “public servants” stepped down in status, accepted mandatory civic duties, in exchange for political liberty (voting and holding office). Not only were they oathbound to the compact (constitution), but they were held to a higher standard of behavior. Service is a privilege, not a right, and the sovereign people, the real masters, had the right to refuse service from those they disapproved of. (See: indirect Democratic form of government)

    To insure that only genuine patriots served, volunteers had to register their property, pay taxes, serve in the militia between the ages of 17 and 45 (or 50), and surrender their liberty and life, in defense of the country and the people. This made sense. If one is to decide on who and how the public funds are to be used to secure rights, ante up your share and your hide. Cowards need not apply.

    America’s governments were thus instituted with two delegations of power : to secure rights (endowed by our Creator) and to govern those who consent (subjects).

    Frankly, legislatures didn’t have much to do, after enacting the laws that secured rights, as in prosecute deliberate injury to person or property, and adjudicate civil cases. And with a small budget, limited taxing powers (remember, no government instituted to secure rights can tax rights), and few subjects to rule, government work was no way to get rich.

    After only two generations, those selfless “patriots” realized that they had a “raw deal,” and decided to change the percentages in their favor. They ended the stringent prerequisites for voting, and extended suffrage to any warm blooded male, regardless. This had several "beneficial" consequences:

    __ 1. It reduced the odds for being called up for militia duty, as more were now bound to serve;
    __ 2. It increased the number of consenting subjects and taxpayers, that the “democratically elected” government could govern, rule, regulate, restrict, and skin alive;
    __ 3. It fostered partisanship, and the rise of “tax and bribe” politics; and
    __ 4. It shifted the character of a candidate from “public servant” to “panderer.”
    This transition from the original Republican form to the Democratic form resulted in dissatisfaction that led up to the divisive "Civil War." Ironically, the "Rebels" could have withdrawn consent from the democratic form, and restored their status as sovereign Americans served by government. But they were too far removed from the Founding generation, and had forgotten their heritage. (Or that under the republican form, “sovereigns without subjects” cannot own chattel slaves. Slave owners had to pay a TAX, because it was a privilege granted by the democratic form.)

    It is ironic that Abraham Lincoln expressed the core of American republicanism (republican form) in a speech.
    *****************
    "What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's Consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the Consent of the governed."
    - - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln
    _________
    Few Americans today understand what a republican form really means, and are ignorant of the consequences of consent to be governed that surrenders rights.

    But consider this fact - the Declaration of Independence states that all men are endowed with the RIGHT to life and liberty - YET - in 1777, militia duty was mandatory on all male citizens (17-45 (or 50), which clearly violated their rights to life and liberty. Of course, citizenship was a voluntary assertion as was the imposed civic duties and loss of rights.

    Those Americans who did not consent to be citizens, retained their birthright of sovereignty, freedom and independence. Thus we see that the generation who wished to secede, were foolish and misled by those who would rather rule via the indirect democratic form, than be servants to the sovereign American people - the real beneficiaries of the UNION.
    ....

    Another reference about citizenship and the drop in status from mandatory civic duties.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
    “The great draft riot in New York City in July 1863 involved Irish immigrants who had been signed up as citizens to swell the vote of the city's Democratic political machine, not realizing it made them liable for the draft.”
    Few Americans today recognize the risk they take in being misled to volunteer into democratic citizenship. Giving consent to be governed is just like volunteering on a suicide mission. It’s too late to object, “Hey, this could get me killed!”


    = = = = = = =
    REPUBLIC, REPUBLICAN FORM
    =\\==\\==\\=
    REPUBLIC

    REPUBLIC (colloquial) - A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
    - - - American Heritage Dictionary

    REPUBLIC - That form of government in which the administration of affairs is open to all the citizens. In another sense, it signifies the state, independent of its form of government.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 1302

    Characteristics of a republic:
    [] Whole body of citizens indirectly exercise “collective sovereignty” *(oxymoron)
    [] Governed by elected officers and officials
    *(No minority has “sovereignty” when outvoted by the majority)

    REPUBLICAN FORM

    GOVERNMENT (Republican Form of Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people ... directly...
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695

    Characteristics of a republican form:
    [] Individual sovereignty, directly exercised
    [] Government instituted to secure endowed rights, not govern
    (Source : Declaration of Independence, 1776)

    DEMOCRATIC FORM

    DEMOCRACY - That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy."
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 432

    Characteristics of the democratic form:
    [] Whole body of citizens indirectly exercise “collective sovereignty” *(oxymoron)
    [] Governed by elected officers and officials
    *(No minority has “sovereignty” when outvoted by the majority)
    . . .
    Which means that “a republic” and “democratic form” are synonymous!
    . . .
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    SHORT FORM
    =\=\=\=

    Republican form soundbite:
    What's yours is yours, what's mine is mine, don't trespass.

    Democratic form soundbite:
    If you consent, shut up, sit down, and obey.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    You can't dominate someone who's self sufficient. You can only dominate when you have something that someone else needs.
    - - - Anonymous

    “If America could be, once again, a nation of self-reliant farmers, craftsmen, hunters, ranchers, and artists, then the rich would have little power to dominate others. Neither to serve nor to rule: That was the American dream.”
    - - - Edward Abbey

    Sounds like it fits well with the republican form : "Sovereigns without subjects"

    Free people tend toward a lifestyle of prosperity, autonomy, self reliance, and resistance to disasters.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE IMPOSSIBLE
    =\=\=\=\=
    Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power.
    Civil disobedience is also a symbolic or ritualistic violation of the law, rather than a rejection of the system as a whole.
    And civil disobedience is often defined as nonviolent resistance.

    However, in a republican form of government, governments instituted to secure endowed rights cannot govern those who did not consent. The servant government cannot make demands, impose obedience, nor punish those who did not consent to be governed. Ergo, there can be no civil disobedience in the republican form.

    Only those who consent to be governed, and transfer to the (indirect) democratic form of government can be disobedient. And since consent is a prerequisite, disobedience is contrary to reason as a remedy. Simply withdraw consent, and leave the democratic form.

    Of course, the (m)asses who are unaware of how and when they gave consent, may be misled to presume that their only viable option is anarchy, civil disobedience, or worse - a slave rebellion. But that is another issue, entirely.

    The following link is to a science fiction story that highlights some aspects of the benefits of the republican form and liberty money, but erroneously links it to civil disobedience.

    Quote And Then There Were None
    http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Did not the republican form of government create a Treasury Department? And this operated an Independent Treasury System?

    And this was later removed and replaced by the Department of the Treasury? With offices that bear similar names to their predecessors? It all being a thin disguise covering the fact that they are servants of the I. M. F. instead of the American people. Thereby leaving us *without* a national treasury soever.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Did not the republican form of government create a Treasury Department?
    [no]
    And this operated an Independent Treasury System?
    [no]
    And this was later removed and replaced by the Department of the Treasury? With offices that bear similar names to their predecessors? It all being a thin disguise covering the fact that they are servants of the I. M. F. instead of the American people. Thereby leaving us *without* a national treasury soever.
    [as long as the government guarantees a republican form to the sovereign people, it can do whatever it wants to itself]
    There are no offices nor officers in the republican form of government. Only "sovereigns without subjects."
    The constitutionally limited indirect democratic form has offices and officers.

    Hierarchy :
    • Sovereign people
    • Servant government and officers
    • Subject citizens
    . . .
    Whether deliberate or not, Americans were misled to assume they retained sovereign prerogatives and endowed rights when they shifted to the democratic form. By observation, one can plainly see that elected officials are not beholden to those who elected them, nor bound by campaign promises. Citizens were not the "bosses."
    Last edited by ozmirage; 27th April 2016 at 02:22.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Allright. More accurate to say: lawful money was once issued by the Treasury Department of the servant government, and this has been replaced by the Department of the Treasury which became allegiant to the I. M. F.?

    Lawful money appears to have been phased out in stages. The original FRN's were still redeemable for a few years. Not only are they now just debt, but there is not even a treasury operated by the servant government.

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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Allright. More accurate to say: lawful money was once issued by the Treasury Department of the servant government, and this has been replaced by the Department of the Treasury which became allegiant to the I. M. F.?
    [no]

    Lawful money appears to have been phased out in stages.
    [no]

    The original FRN's were still redeemable for a few years. Not only are they now just debt, but there is not even a treasury operated by the servant government.
    [no]
    Let's get some definitions in place, so we're clear.
    LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
    Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

    "Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
    "Eagles each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
    --- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792
    FYI: Silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1873 ("The Crime of 1873"). But that only applied to the Federal government. Silver dollars still circulated.

    U.S. MINT
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Mint
    The United States Mint primarily produces circulating coinage for the United States to conduct its trade and commerce. The Mint was created by Congress with the Coinage Act of 1792, and originally placed within the Department of State.

    It converted precious metals into standard coin for anyone's account with no seigniorage charge beyond the refining costs.

    It was placed under the auspices of the Treasurer of the United States in 1981. Legal tender coins of today are minted solely for the Treasury's account.
    Originally, coins were not "issued" by government, but coined from bullion brought to the mint by private parties.

    Since 1965, counterfeit coins (non silver) have been coined. They are solely on the account of the Treasury and do not alienate title.
    . . .
    REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

    MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

    NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060

    FIAT MONEY. Paper currency not backed by gold or silver.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. P.623

    TENDER - An offer of money ... Legal tender is that kind of coin, money, or circulating medium which the law compels a creditor to accept in payment of his debt, when tendered by the debtor in the right amount.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1467
    [Note: FRNs are legal tender on the obligated party of those notes - the Federal government. . . AND the 320 million enumerated socialists.]
    "Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
    MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305
    All duly enumerated American socialists cannot object to the tender of the notes that THEY are obligated parties to. (thanks to FICA)

    Recapping:

    ● Lawful money = gold / silver coin (aka real money)
    ● Money = lawful money or currency (i.e., certificates which are receipts for real money in the vault)
    ● Notes are not money, by law, nor are they “fiat” because they’re debt (negative value)

    Holding a note in your hand does not give it face value. It may be legal tender at face value to an obligated party on said note, but that does not give it value.

    If you emit an IOU, “I, John Doe, owe the bearer one dollar,” what value does it have? Did you give a dollar to the note holder? No. You gave nothing of value - only a promise to pay in the future. Not fiat. Minus one dollar.

    Until the note is extinguished by redemption, it is a minus value.
    • Fiat currency is not debt, is not minus, and is not redeemable.
    • Notes are not fiat, being redeemable, in lawful money.
    Repudiated notes of a bankrupted government underwritten by 320 million human resources, via FICA, are still not fiat.

    BUT if you are an obligated party on said note, beware when the creditor comes after you and yours!

    The Great Confiscation: Gold ownership was illegal in the USA from 1933 to 1975
    http://goldcoin.org/numismatics/the-...3-to-1975/165/
    On March 6 of 1933, the President set in motion a chain of events that ended the international gold standard once and for all. First, he closed the nation’s banks and prohibited them from paying out or exporting gold coins and bullion, using emergency powers granted by the Trading with the Enemy Act that had been enacted during World War I.
    From 1933 forward, private possession and ownership of gold was illegal for U.S. citizens. Any refusal to return one’s gold was punishable by a fine of $10,000 and 10 years in prison.
    http://bestamericangold.com/confiscation/
    __"The private ownership of gold is a privilege, not a right. Congress revoked the privilege of private ownership in 1933 and restored it in 1974. Congress could easily revoke the privilege again. In fact, at no time during this century has the U.S. government recognized the right of private gold ownership. The Trading With The Enemy Act, which President Roosevelt invoked in 1933 to restrict private gold transactions, remains law. The government could reactivate the machinery, which The Trading With The Enemy Act established, to implement gold confiscation."
    - - - Boston College International and Comparative Law Review 297, 320 (1982)
    __“The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of government, i.e. law, amounting to mere user; and user must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.” — Senate Document No. 43, 73D Congress, 1st Session, entitled: “Contracts Payable in Gold”, by George Cyrus Thorpe, submitted to the senate: April 17, 1933
    From the Communist manifesto: "In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

    Abolition occurred in 1933.

    Via the STATE OF EMERGENCY

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_o...#United_States
    As of October 2014, thirty states of emergency remain in effect, one reaching as far back as the Roosevelt Administration.

    United States, Senate Report 93-549 states: "That since March 09, 1933 the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency." Proclamation No. 2039 declared by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on March 9, 1933. This declared national emergency has never been revoked and has been codified into the US Code (12 U.S.C. 95a and b).
    As previously posted, the Sec'y of Treasury, aka "U.S. governor" is not paid by the U.S. but is delegated sweeping powers for the duration of this emergency. He's paid by the fiduciary agent of the "Fund" and the "Bank" - the Federal Reserve Corporation - which is also the fiduciary agent for the U.N., an institution wholly infiltrated by collectivists.

    If you didn't quite notice it, your consent to the EMERGENCY is found in your assertion of :
    [] U.S. citizenship - placing you in the jurisdiction of the foreign corporation (U.S. government)
    [] FICA (only available to U.S. citizens / U.S. residents)
    [] Bank signature card, whereupon you agree to abide by the rules of the bank, thus the Federal Reserve banking system, and thus the U.S. governor of the "Bank," the Secretary of Treasury.
    Pursuant to Title 12 USC sec. 95b, the Sec'y of Treasury now "owns" you and yours.

    (P.S. - if you're engaged in contracts for usury with foreign financial powers, you're "Trading with the Enemy." And immoral, to boot. All religions denounce usury. Ezekiel 18:13 KJV lists it as a capital offense. Ergo, no one with an interest bearing bank account can demand Divine Justice on his behalf. He's a dead man walking. Government truly does "Trust in God." )
    Last edited by ozmirage; 27th April 2016 at 09:20.
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    Default Re: Republican Form of Government

    The images are too big to link if they're readable, but the notes might be worth looking up if you are curious. They were issued by FR New York, FR Chicago, etc., for several years before centralized issue sometime in the 20s.

    Prior to 1933, Federal Reserve Notes were redeemable at the Treasury or any Federal Reserve branch for lawful money. They all say this. That's how they gained public confidence initially. After about 20 years of not many people redeeming them and forgetting why it should not have been allowed, they blossomed into their fully worthless stature.

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