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Thread: Socialised medicine is superior

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    When government criminalized the unlicensed trade in medical / health care, the right to healthcare became a privilege.
    I support the right to universal health care - absent the intervention of government.
    Everyone should have the right to care for anyone else, to the best of their ability.
    Medical education should not be rationed and controlled by self interest groups.
    Ditto, for medicine and machinery.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    it appears you are saying u support the right of the government to force doctors to give u free health care?

    when someone else must do something for you/ to you how can it be a right.....





    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    When government criminalized the unlicensed trade in medical / health care, the right to healthcare became a privilege.
    I support the right to universal health care - absent the intervention of government.
    Everyone should have the right to care for anyone else, to the best of their ability.
    Medical education should not be rationed and controlled by self interest groups.
    Ditto, for medicine and machinery.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    Quote Posted by Ellisa (here)
    Whilst Australia has a 2 tier system EVERYONE is able to access free medical care in hospital if they choose to. My husband broke his leg. His stay in hospital took 2 weeks, he then had 5 visits to out patients and another plaster applied after routine x-rays on one of the visits. He is now completely healed. It cost us nothing--- not a cent--- all pathology, x-rays medicines were free. We could have opted for a private hospital where all of our hospital costs and some of our doctor's fees would be paid for by Govt subsidy and/or private insurance if we wished. This would, in such a hospital, be paid for by insurance or cash-- though there would be some subsidy for Australian citizens. Our medicines and doctors' visits are also subsidised.

    The life expectancy of Australians is now 82. Most countries that have some form of subsidised medicine have better outcomes in life- expectancy than ones that treat mainly only those who can afford it!

    P.S. I recently had a flu injection - It is voluntary and cost me nothing.
    Ellisa, I am sure that the doctors did not work on your husbands leg for free they must have been paid something. Someone had to pay for the food, cleaning his linens, nurses time, medical equipment, hospital night security-person, clerical staff etc etc. Also someone must have paid for your injection, I sure there was cost involved. My point is that the word "free" in not just misleading but it is simply not true.

    I think that some form of subsidized health care is a good thing, that said, healthcare that is run completely by the government is predestined for failure, especially in countries where the populations exceed 100 million people. The United States has had government run hospitals for decades, they are the ultimate form of government healthcare and they are a complete disaster. Long waits for services, tremendous fraud, extremely high mortality rates, lost records, the list of negatives goes on and on. This is the VA (veteran affairs) hospitals. This is as preview of exactly what Americans can expect from the Affordable Care Act.

    Socialized medicine is not the answer nor is a wide open form of capitalized medicine. Some form of hybrid partnership between the corporate world and government is probably the answer. This will never happen as long as pharmaceutical and insurance companies continue to have a stranglehold on politicians. If you do a bit of research on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) it is easy to understand that the Obama government hired an army of big pharma employees to help write the Affordable Care Act. Once written and passed, they were (for the most part) rehired by the same big pharma companies and paid exorbitant bonuses for their time spent working for the Obama administration.

    The system of lobbying the government really needs to be stopped. Not just for healthcare but for honest government on all fronts.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    I did not say the doctors were not paid. Of course all the medical expenses from treatment in the hospital was paid for. It is paid by taxes! That is why we have taxes, so that when we need healthcare (and obviously other services), we are able to get them without cost at the times we need to. Some people do not pay income tax as they, for whatever reason do not earn an income or earn too little to be taxed. In this country they are still able to be treated for any health care they need at no cost to them at the time, or if they are not taxpayers, at no cost to them at any time. By the same taken wealthy people can also be treated without cost in hospital, in fact most of the really complex surgery is done in public hospitals with government funding. We do have private health insurance which is encouraged through benefits in the tax system, but they are mostly used by people for elective surgery and quicker access for treatment. For instance I used such a hospital for my hip replacement operation. The total cost, which includes government subsidy and includes 3 weeks rehabilitation, was under $1,000. I could have chosen a public hospital and had no billing at all.

    I am a believer in the benefits of immunisation and vaccination, and yes, I believe that the free access to such programmes, as well as free healthcare, helps Australia to have one of the highest life expectancy rates (82) in the world. (84 for women!!!)

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    It appears you may have misunderstood the part about "everyone should have the right to care for anyone else."
    It simply means that no one can be prosecuted for "practicing medicine without a license." (government permission)

    I am against government meddling in health care, whether licensing or regulating medicines and machinery.

    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    it appears you are saying u support the right of the government to force doctors to give u free health care?

    when someone else must do something for you/ to you how can it be a right.....

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    When government criminalized the unlicensed trade in medical / health care, the right to healthcare became a privilege.
    I support the right to universal health care - absent the intervention of government.
    Everyone should have the right to care for anyone else, to the best of their ability.
    Medical education should not be rationed and controlled by self interest groups.
    Ditto, for medicine and machinery.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    An American doctor experiences the NHS. Again.
    POSTED BY DR. JEN GUNTER ⋅ AUGUST 20, 2016 ⋅ 5 COMMENTS
    FILED UNDER HEALTH INSURANCE

    Two years ago I wrote about my experience in a London emergency department with my son, Victor. That post has since been viewed > 450,000 times. There are over 800 comments with no trolls (a feat unto itself) and almost all of them express love for the NHS.

    I was in England again this week. And yes, I was back in an emergency department, but this time with my cousin (who is English).

    This is what happened.

    My cousin loves high heels. As a former model she makes walking in the highest of heels look easy. However, cobblestone streets have challenges not found on catwalks and so she twisted her ankle very badly. Despite ice and elevation there was significant swelling and bruising and she couldn’t put any weight on her foot. I suggested we call her doctor and explain the situation. I was worried about a fracture. I hoped to arrange an x-ray. If it was broken we would arrange the needed care and if it wasn’t broken I could bandage it just as well at home.

    “No,” she said. She’d have to ring for an appointment. It was Friday around 11 a.m. The chance of getting into her GP by the end of the day was apparently non-existent. She would have to wait until Monday. Even is she were lucky enough to be seen that day there was no x-ray in his office so it would be a trip to see him and then a trip to the hospital. She was shocked when I suggested she call and just ask if he could order the x-ray. Apparently, that’s not how it’s done. In person or nothing.

    As a gynecologist I will admit feet are not my strong suit, but no medical degree was needed to say she needed an x-ray. She also has some health issues that could impact healing from a break or the timing or surgery (hopefully that wouldn’t be needed, but you never know), so a timely diagnosis was more important for her than it would be in the situation were reversed and it was my ankle.

    “We’re going to the emergency department I said,” and off we went to Sunderland Hospital.

    Getting to the actual emergency room (ER) from the parking area required a background in orienteering. There was loads of
    construction and we had to go down hallway after hallway with Hogwarts’ worthy twists and turns. I managed to find a wheelchair, a unwieldily apparatus that only works in reverse. On purpose. This is to stop wheelchair theft, which is apparently a serious problem at Sunderland Hospital.

    My cousin was triaged immediately. Within two minutes a nurse checked her ankle, gave her codeine, and then sent her off to an urgent care clinic. She wasn’t even registered in the ER. A porter wheeled her to the urgent care clinic in another building some distance away, which required a trip outside.

    “What if it rains?” I asked the porter.

    “We get wet. This is the North,” he said. “Of course it rains. Almost every day.”

    Apparently no one complains.

    The urgent care clinic had a few people ahead of us. It took about 10 minutes to check in and then no more than 15 minutes to be seen. A lovely nurse named Leslie triaged my cousin and agreed an x-ray was in order and made the arrangements. My cousin did not need to see a doctor or a nurse practitioner to get an x-ray. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen in the U.S.

    The x-ray and radiology report took 10 minutes. Then a nurse practitioner (also very nice) did an appropriate history and exam. The diagnosis was a torn ligament (sprain) and possibly a small fracture of the lateral malleolus (outside ankle bone). A orthopedics consult was needed. She could have a bit of a wait and be squeezed into fracture clinic that afternoon or she could have a cast and come back to Saturday fracture clinic. The clinic didn’t start until 2 p.m. and we were done in urgent care by 1 p.m. so she opted to wait. She was seen around 2:15 pm. An orthopedic consultant did an exam and recommended a tight support bandage and gave her exercises and guidelines about how to follow-up if she wasn’t meeting milestones.

    My cousin was at the hospital for four hours, but over an hour was an unavoidable wait for fracture clinic and about 30 minutes of transport back and forth between the ER, urgent care, and fracture clinic. To receive this care all my cousin had to do was provide her name and birthdate. No copayments, no preauthorizations, no concerns about the radiologist or orthopedic surgeon being out of network. The nursing triage was wonderful and actually doing nursing (I hate seeing nurses relegated to charting). The nurse practitioner clearly knew what she was talking about and had reviewed the films with the radiologist. The surgeon only did the part of my cousin’s care that needed a specialist. It was a great use of resources.

    Everyone I spoke with at the hospital loved the NHS, and honestly it showed. While the hospital was a veritable maze and in need of the updating that they appeared to be doing, the equipment was all fine and the people, i.e. the things that really matter, were great. Everyone from the porter to the orthopedic consultant was hard-working, knowledgeable, and friendly. What more could you ask for? I asked a few people what they would like to see changed? The only real issue was people who show up for care that is clearly not even semi urgent never mind emergent. Might a tiny user fee change that? Did we have user fees in the U.S.? Did they work?

    Non-emergent care provided in the ER is obviously not the best use of health care funds, but in reality it’s a tiny drop in the health care bucket. Extra emergency room doctors and nurses and the not needed CT scans and other testing that may be generated are nothing in comparison to things like chemotherapy, or HIV medications, or bone marrow transplants. We do have user fees in the U.S. in the form of copayments. Even low copayments can cause some people to delay necessary care. They also don’t seem to deter people who don’t need the emergency room but want to go. I’ve sat in the ER with Oliver waiting for a bed while he struggled with pneumonia and overheard many examples. A man bragging that he tells the ER staff he has chest pain so he gets seen first. He was happy to pay his $100 copayment to be seen promptly at his convenience. He had nothing even remotely urgent. I’ve listened to a mother who waited hours for a diaper rash. Not a bleeding diaper rash, just a rash. Her physician had a free 24/7 pediatrics advice nurse that went unused (we had the same pediatrician, so I knew). She could have saved $40 and most of her Saturday, never mind the exposure to Oliver’s influenza, with a phone call. If you want to change ER utilization, and yes it’s a worthy goal even though it’s not the major cost driver, it’s education and outreach that are needed not penalties.

    When I think of copayments I think of a 60-year-old woman with breast cancer three years post surgery and chemotherapy now in remission. She developed a cough and a fever so received a chest x-ray to look for pneumonia. The radiologist found something not quite right, a spot that was especially concerning given her breast cancer history. She needed a CT scan to see if this is a bit of scaring or if her cancer has metastasized to her lungs. When I asked her why she hasn’t yet had the CT scan she told me she couldn’t afford her $100 copayment. It will take her two months to save the $100 so she can get the CT scan to find out if her cancer has returned. She looked at me in the eyes for just a moment and then a mixture of embarrassment and fear that my eyes might tell her what she doesn’t want to know caused her to look away. And what if her CT scan is equivocal and she needs $100 (or more) for the copayment for a lung biopsy? If that’s not a circle of Hell I don’t know what it. You want to knwo what’s worse? I’ve heard a variation of this story more than once.

    Dear U.K., the NHS is awesome. Try to treat it a little better. Maybe teach kids in school how to use the health care system (hey, why not NHS ed alongside drivers ed or sex ed?). Have safe sex. Stop smoking. Try to lose weight if you need to (obesity causes 30% of cancers). Wear lower heels for dancing. And for crying out loud stop stealing wheelchairs. The next time anyone mentions privatization or user fees tell them in America there are people trying to save enough money for the copayment for the CT scan that will tell them if their cancer has returned or not.

    Thank you NHS for taking fantastic care of my cousin, of my son two years ago, and of everyone else.

    To the British government, stop trying to mess it up.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    Cuba is a great model for where we need to be. They provide similar quality care to USA at 1/30th cost.

    They rely on primary healthcare providers in communities with an integrative and preventative approach.

    Due to the blockade, they get by with very few western drugs.
    Quote
    Is the Cuban healthcare system really as great as people claim?


    https://theconversation.com/is-the-c...le-claim-69526

    Pundits have been discussing the merits (or not) of Fidel Castro’s legacy as his body lies in state. The Cuban healthcare system is often stated as one of El Commandante’s greatest achievements. But how great is the system really? As someone who trained as a doctor in Cuba, I’d like to give you an insider’s view.
    The Cuban healthcare system, borne out of its revolutionary socialist ideology, regards accessibility to healthcare as a fundamental right of its citizens. It focuses heavily on a preventative approach to medicine and offering the simplest check-up to the most complex surgery, free of charge. Dental care, medicines and even home visits from doctors are all covered by the system.
    The island has the health statistics to support this seemingly impeccable system. An infant mortality rate of 4.2 per thousand births (compared with a rate of 3.5 per thousand births in the UK in 2015), life expectancy of 77 years for men and 81 years for women (on par with the UK’s life expectancy of 79 years for men and 83 years for women), and a doctor to patient ratio of one per 150, which surpasses many developed nations (UK ratio from the latest World Bank data is 2.8 doctors per 1,000 patients). It is no surprise therefore, that the secretary general of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, during a visit to Cuba hailed its healthcare service as, “a model for many countries”.

    Doing a lot with a little.

    Is all of this just propaganda? My answer would be no. I had the opportunity to spend seven years in this country as a medical student and saw firsthand the positives as well as the negatives of this healthcare service.
    As an American citizen, I was always impressed by how much Cubans were able to accomplish with so little. The professionalism and humility displayed by healthcare workers was without doubt commendable. It is these people who though receiving paltry salaries (doctors earn about £52 a month), are in many instances overworked because thousands of their colleagues were sent to other countries such as Venezuela and Brazil to participate in healthcare missions.
    In addition they do this without access to the latest in diagnostic technology or have to wait weeks for basic equipment to arrive at hospitals to perform procedures, even at times without electricity or running water. They still find the strength to push through all these obstacles and challenges to deliver a service worthy of praise.

    Cuban doctors generally remark that becoming a doctor in their country is not about the money but about the need to help others. This was one of the first things I was taught in medical school. Though a noble sentiment, this is a main issue with the Cuban model. The government spends roughly US$300-$400(£240-£320) per person each year on healthcare, pays doctors $64 (£52) per month, but gains about US$8 billion (£6.4 billion) annually as a result of its overseas medical missions. It’s difficult to say where the gains obtained by the government is invested.

    Many doctors opt for participating in these missions as the salaries they receive are remarkably better (even though the Cuban government receives about a third of it). Sending thousands of doctors overseas, though a commendable action, leaves a domestic system under pressure. With fewer doctors and specialists at home, queues at hospitals and clinics are longer, and so are waiting times. Doctors have more work to cover in a stressful profession with limited resources. A patient may end up travelling to another province to visit a specialist because the one stationed nearest to him or her has been sent to Venezuela. This may be the reason why many more medical professionals are currently being trained across Cuba to help fill the void left by those sent around the globe.

    Crumbling infrastructure


    The healthcare infrastructure in Cuba also requires serious attention. Some of the clinics and hospitals in operation are in dire need of repairs. So too is the urgent need of more modern medical equipment and stable electricity and water. These issues however, cannot be solely placed at the feet of the Cuban government as the trade embargo placed on Cuba by the US government has had detrimental effect. An example of this is sourcing medical equipment from as far as China instead of a neighbouring country like the US. With all these difficulties the country’s continued emphasis on primary healthcare and preventionmay be the key to its success.
    The island continues to offer hundreds of scholarships annually to foreign students including those from the US. These scholarships are generally open to students from low income families who may not have been able to attend medical school because of their socioeconomic background. The Latin American School of Medicine (Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina) is one of the largest medical schools in the western hemisphere with thousands of students from over 100 different countries.
    The Cuban healthcare service has stood the test of time. It has afforded a foreigner like myself the opportunity to study a career free of charge while many of my colleagues are thousands of dollars in debt after attending medical schools in the US. It ensures that open heart surgery doesn’t result in lifelong indebtedness. It has created globally competitivebiotechnology and pharmaceutical industries. It doesn’t turn people away because of their socioeconomic status. It is a system that has been there for its people. Yes, it has its flaws and challenges which need remedying, but it is not merely a propaganda tool for the powers that be.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Two years ago I wrote about my experience in a London emergency department with my son, Victor. That post has since been viewed > 450,000 times. There are over 800 comments with no trolls (a feat unto itself) and almost all of them express love for the NHS.
    .
    800 comments on the internet with no negative/troll ones?

    Yep, that's fake.


    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Cuba is a great model for where we need to be. They provide similar quality care to USA at 1/30th cost.

    They rely on primary healthcare providers in communities with an integrative and preventative approach.

    Due to the blockade, they get by with very few western drugs.
    Yeah, it's only because of the blockade!

    Ever wonder why Cuba's medicine is cheaper?
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    Since we wrote the OP more than two years ago, the situation in the UK NHS has become much direr.

    It is becoming more obvious that the UK government has used every dirty trick & strategy to undermine the sustainability of the NHS as a publicly owned universal health provider.

    It is not clear what the final nail in the coffin will be but current candidates include:

    1. the May government signs a trade agreement with the USA that guarantees full price drug purchases as opposed to generics or cheaper less effective alternatives that are better value for money
    2. Roll out of private provision permanently de-skills the NHS- the people leave, emigrate or retire and no government will be able to attract replacements
    3. Mass exodus of the many thousands of EU citizens that the NHS depends on , combined with very difficult or restricted non-EU immigration for health professionals
    4. Some occurrence or combination whereby lives are lost due to under resourcing & over work, that creates that existential crisis.
    5. On-going cuts to finance- the middle class is forced to get insurance

    I really feel for all the hard-working professionals who are going through HELL right now. It is intensely infuriating. My family member wrote the following as a way of spreading awareness regarding this crisis.

    Quote Here follows a draft letter offered for use by everyone campaigning for the NHS. The aim of the letter below is for people to copy and send out across England to help inform the large numbers of people who remain unaware that the NHS is being dismantled. If you are committed to contributing to the fight for the NHS, feel free to copy the letter, personalise it as you wish, sign it and email or send as many paper copies as possible to friends and family, your local press, the national press, your MP, your local councillors, your union reps and to as many other people as you possibly can, while asking them to share it in turn.


    If the NHS is to survive as a public service both now and for future generations, now is the time to really fight hard for its survival because it is nearly gone……...

    Dear…….
    The government and much of the media has been lying to us all. The NHS is being deliberately and stealthily crippled by our government, in preparation for eventual dismantling, while moving us towards a largely privately provided insurance-based system similar to some in the US[i]. We are now reaching the end stage in this process. The NHS as we know it, despite the best efforts of the current government, continues to deliver excellent and affordable healthcare. But it cannot continue to do so with one of the lowest funding levels as a % of GDP in the OECD countries. OECD health funding on average is 10% of GDP; the UK’s was 9.7% in 2016[ii]. The NHS continues to be one of the best health systems in the world whereas the US style system the government is aiming to move us towards has repeatedly been rated as one of the worst in the world as well as the most expensive.

    Successive Tory governments have defunded the NHS for years, ever since Thatcher’s time. But since 2010, defunding has accelerated. Thousands of hospital beds have now been lost through underfunding. With nearly 122,000 general and acute beds in 2010, bed numbers dropped to just over 102,000 by 2015/6 despite our growing population. At the same time, many clinical staff have been subject to a pay freeze since 2010, resulting in real terms significant cut to their incomes. This has driven many away from working in the NHS because they cannot afford to stay due to intolerable pressures of work and/or insufficient income to support their families. All this is caused by government pre-privatisation planning. The consequences for both patients and staff are catastrophic; there have been over 20,000 excess deaths in 2018 alone[iii]; between 2011-2014, over 45,000 excess deaths[iv] and between 2015-2017 58,000 further deaths attributable to this current government’s health and welfare policies.[v]
    Through these and other actions, the government deliberately aims to deprive less affluent people of their healthcare being fully and effectively met, while nudging the more affluent towards private healthcare and private medical insurance. It is very clear that right wing ideology values profits before the comprehensive healthcare needs of the population. But despite government denials, there is ample evident to show this is truly happening[vi].
    Currently vast sums of taxpayer’s money are being spent on contracting out NHS care to private companies. Many of these contracts are being awarded to healthcare companies where members of our government have vested interests. At the same time, the Trump government is waiting in the wings to gain healthcare trade deals with the UK, and to increase our drug costs to benefit US drug companies.

    It was a Tory government that first introduced marketisation into the NHS some years ago. This has proved to be an extremely wasteful exercise that fragmented NHS services into separate business entities. From 2012 it has also become an external market due to the 2012 Health and Social Care Act, costing an estimated 4 to billion a year[vii].

    This system wastes more billions every year, money which is desperately needed for patient care with staff and beds to provide it. Further billions are being wasted on PFI contracts designed to ultimately bankrupt hospital Trusts, to make them ripe for handing over to the private sector[viii]. Billions are also being wasted on and by NHS England, a conglomerate of quangos headed by Simon Stevens, an ex-executive of the US healthcare company United Health. Steven’s brief is to implement the government’s privatisation plans at huge cost while overseeing NHS England staff earning vast salaries at public expense. To facilitate this process, even more millions are wasted by government on management consultancy by international companies. It is no surprise that the national debt has risen by trillions under this government. At the same time, the public are being bombarded by advertising from private healthcare companies to encourage people to sign up for private health insurance. We are being softened up and nudged towards a US-style system, one of the worst systems in the world, ultimately to our serious detriment.

    Many members of the public realise that patient care is suffering, it is much more difficult to see a GP, to get to A&E by ambulance without long waits for ambulances and treatment, long waits for essential operations and recurrent cancellation of hospital appointments. All these sometimes life-threatening delays are a direct result of our government’s policies in action. And while the media tells us about how badly the NHS is doing on an almost daily basis, they never reveal the causes which rest entirely with Tory government policy.

    Finally, in brief, this summarises what our government is doing year on year in order to create the conditions where they can turn our NHS over to a US style health system with private company provision of very much reduced public health services:
    • Keeping as many of the public as possible in the dark
    • Lying to the public repeatedly
    • Real terms cuts in funding the NHS year on year, funding has dropped from 3-4% above inflation per annum to around 1% since 2010.
    • Spending billions on private contracts, quangos, management consultancy while the NHS dwindles into crisis
    • Contracting out more and more NHS services to private companies
    • Reducing large numbers of hospital beds across England
    • Creating working conditions that drive staff out of the NHS[ix].( 1,205,949 vacancies in January 2018: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-info...--january-2018)
    • Selling off NHS land to private sector companies
    • Looking after vested interests in drawing profits from the NHS in future
    • Changing terms and conditions of staff in preparation for forcing many into private sector healthcare employment as publicly provided NHS services shrink away
    • Compromising the quality of patient care across the board
    • Profiteering to the detriment of patients and the benefit of shareholders

    It is most urgent that the public gain a full understanding of all that is happening to destroy the NHS before it is too late. People have been deceived for far too long. For the sake of us all, for patients, for the staff who care for us, for future generations, if you want a publicly provided and funded NHS to be reinstated in ways that are fit for the future, and if you want to maintain access to quality and effective care for all who need it, please spread this information far and wide. Knowledge is power, and the power of the people is needed urgently right now. Please share this letter.
    Best wishes,





    ________________________________________
    [i] The Kaiser Permanente population health model which is based on capped funding for a geographical area and aggressive rationing of hospital care

    [ii] Health at a Glance, OECD 2017

    [iii]https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2127


    [iv] http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722

    [v]https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2016to2017provisionaland2015to2016final#all-english-regions-observed-significant-increases-in-ewm-indices-between-winter-periods-2015-to-2016-and-2016-to-2017

    [vi] El-Gingihy, Y.(2015) How to Dismantle the NHS in 10 Easy Steps, Zero Books

    [vii] https://b.3cdn.net/nefoundation/295a..._87m6iyt2s.pdf

    [viii] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7134881.html


    [ix] 1,205,949 vacancies in January 2018: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-info...--january-2018
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    THE INFLUENCE OF A SOCIALISED MEDICINE SYSTEM ON GENERIC DRUG PRICES:

    [IMG][/IMG]
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Socialised medicine is superior

    Another experience from a us citizen in the uk:

    At the end of April 2019, I was an American in the UK on a tourist visa. I developed a medical problem and first went to an “Urgent Care” clinic. I was seen by a nurse and given a course of antibiotics - all for no charge. The problem got worse and the next day I went to the emergency room of a suburban London hospital. After about a ten minute wait, which included filling out an “overseas patient” form. I was seen by a nurse for a preliminary exam. After about another ten minute wait, I was taken to see a doctor. Various blood tests and x-rays were ordered. Within an hour it was decided that I was to be admitted to the hospital.

    On my first full day of admission I was visited by the hospital’s “Overseas Patient” specialist. She explained the billing process to me in very clear terms. I was given an invoice for the maximum tariff for admission under the category “emergency - orthopedic.” This was rather large (just over $11,000), but it was a calculation based on all the likely orthopedic emergency admissions. It was further explained that within four weeks after my discharge the exact total of my treatment would be calculated and if it was less than the maximum tariff, I would be refunded the difference. The maximum tariff was due in two weeks, so whether or not I paid it made no difference in the receipt of treatment, nor in the level of treatment I received. It was explained to me, however, that if I didn’t pay the matter would be turned over to a collection agency and, ultimately, could prevent my re-admission into the UK.

    I was hospitalized for five days. Upon discharge I was given a substantial number of medications to take with me. Within a few days I paid the maximum tariff I had been billed. In a week I had to return to the emergency room for a related procedure and readjustment of my medications. The entire emergency room visit including procedure and medications was free.

    Within four weeks of my release I received a call from the hospital. The total charge for my five days hospitalization (including all tests, medications, equipment, treatments, food, etc.) was $1,066.33. Within three days the balance of nearly $10,000 from the maximum tariff was credited back into my bank account.

    I am now waiting for an itemized bill from the hospital to send to my U.S. insurance company for (I hope) reimbursement of some or all of the $1,066.33 I paid.

    I was in a first-class hospital and received excellent care. In retrospect, despite the fact that I have U.S. insurance, I consider myself fortunate that my medical emergency happened in the UK.

    In the U.S. the same experience could easily have been $50,000 or substantially more. Without insurance or resources it could easily have resulted in bankruptcy, loss of home or retirement savings, or crippling debt for years to come.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

  21. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Baby Steps For This Post:

    Ayt (9th August 2019), Constance (8th August 2019), Franny (9th August 2019), Rosemarie (8th August 2019)

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