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Thread: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)


    Thank you, kirolak. I have always respected your understanding of this world as reflected by your posts. I do not find it any easier to live on this planet as time passes. I live every moment of every day with the awareness of what my species is doing to all other living things. We are even perpetuating evil on our own kind. Along time ago I made a commitment to see the world as it really is and what I see terrifies me. How do we live with this disconnect????

    I feel their torture every day. I am so ashamed of what we have done. I don't eat animals, I don't use animal products, I work for animal rescues and I don't feel like it is anything. I no longer feel like it will make a difference, except to me. The madness is so huge and permeating.

    I do not believe consciousness can evolve significantly until we can look this monster square in the eye and have the courage to correct the wrongs we have committed.


    I know the feeling . It's also ..very old one . Realising our own helplessness in the face of human multitudes .

    I remember , 1993 .. when I went to India for the first time and then started to teach here .. and it was the time of spiritual awakening for the society,
    after decades of closed borders and people wanted to know , they wanted to change .

    They watched movies like Baraka ( the full copy is probably somewhere in Avalon archives as well )



    and everyone was appalled at the sight of millions of cute chicks going under the mill and many promised ( to themselves , or their friends ) never to eat them again.
    Things felt more optimistic for the society back then but even then I realised we could maximally form an 'offshoot civilisation'
    because the rest of society will never agree to the same compassionate ideas ,

    their 'happiness' still rests in having any of their traditional 'meat chunk' and 'beer caldron' and the makings of the society stands mostly on shoulders and decisions of those people .

    I never felt the right to tell people what to eat unless they asked and unless i could feed them .

    The universal constant ( and teaching ) i arrived at later turned to be 'compassion'. Compassion for the people - who despite being intelligent entities and not animals - who descended so low .
    I'd cry for the criminals because they themselves were the sufferers , the victims, those in pain our senseless society did not care about .
    At the bottom line i think , there's no choice .. either you'd have to run away from this version of humanity totally disgusted ( and i did and do, so often ) or , start feeling for them on deeper level.

    Can't say it's right or if it helps .

    But meeting some of my friends here who are in the 'treadmill' of daily business and just watching local body-mind archetypes it's also rather clear to me how surviving and working alongside the same people would turn impossible ,
    in long run , if they don't feed the same way .

    The strong 'meat mountain' of average manual worker or your aggressive businessman did not come 'out of nowhere' , it's a result of generations and generations of people who fed on animal proteins .

    Going 'vegan' for few days, weeks or even years may be extremely beneficial for your health ( though, diet - nutrition is strictly individual and people have to be sensitive to make a good choice ) and it does change your body type too.

    But, and that goes perfectly along the 'philosophy' of 'no killing ' and 'no cheating' , you can't expect from you/us to outsmart the 'strong progressives' who are the builders and manipulators of the society.
    At best , they never hurt you , they respect .. but it's impossible to spend time in their reality without getting ill and suffocating myself ..

    It turns to be a 'wholeness choice' and when i saw to the history of the planet and its human tribes , i saw both groups have always been here as well,
    two types of civilisation.
    The utterly peaceful, spiritually mature , settled people with rich minds and views who never wanted to invade anyone and lived undisturbed if allowed ,
    building their beautiful civilisation by their own means ..

    and the others, the hunters , warriors , the 'strong men' whose 'thirst for life' compelled them to anything that would sustain themselves and their mentality , the brutes .
    Unfortunately for us .. the brutes often won the 'evolution race' if not only for fact they stole properties , stole lives , raped women of the peaceful tribes too .
    So after each historical epoch mankind became more and more inter-mixed .

    I'm afraid that one day some evil mind will put people to the same treadmill ..

    like in the Soylent Green movie .

    The disadvantage on our side .. the non-violent vegan pacifist truther .. add your own definition of who you are ,i feel , is in not having enough strength or even willingness left to fight for the truth you represent .

    But .. no matter how many noble ideas have we seen falling , someone, somewhere will preserve .. the truth won't die .

    The paradox of man-eating-animal is in fact, over the generations it's the animal who managed to eat man .


    Nature is smart

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    After reading your comment it made me realise that this earth is tiny compared to the huge amount of stars, planets and life in the cosmos and that this experience we and our brethren in the animal and sea kingdoms are going through will serve a higher purpose. The character of what is a guardian is to care, nurture and enlighten. The great sacrafice given by our brethren has to serve a higher purpose and that i believe is for humanities full purpose of becoming a guardian race in the cosmos. From this micro experience to the macro we will bring our hearts and experiences one day and care for other beings process of awakening. It is one thing to heal all wounds but it is another to have this blueprint of experience to change the very nature of existence everywhere. I feel that this guardian race will carry great heart and compassion and have great purpose something we here have yet not realised. This is just a feeling of mine about this.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by raff (here)
    After reading your comment it made me realise that this earth is tiny compared to the huge amount of stars, planets and life in the cosmos and that this experience we and our brethren in the animal and sea kingdoms are going through will serve a higher purpose. The character of what is a guardian is to care, nurture and enlighten. The great sacrafice given by our brethren has to serve a higher purpose and that i believe is for humanities full purpose of becoming a guardian race in the cosmos. From this micro experience to the macro we will bring our hearts and experiences one day and care for other beings process of awakening. It is one thing to heal all wounds but it is another to have this blueprint of experience to change the very nature of existence everywhere. I feel that this guardian race will carry great heart and compassion and have great purpose something we here have yet not realised. This is just a feeling of mine about this.


    raff, you are a visionary! Reading your post gave me a glimmer of hope that their might be a purpose to this madness. Thank you. I have to believe that the purity of spirit exhibited by our partners on this planet (the animals and plants) has a higher purpose then to be used as food, entertainment, torture and drug experimentation by humans.

    I do see the potential of the human race. And the odd thing is, I very rarely see the ugly side of humanity on an individual basis. Perhaps most of us are guilty of sins of omission rather than commission. In other words, most of us would not partake in the evil, and certainly not initiate it, rather we look the other way and let it happen.
    Last edited by peterpam; 14th May 2016 at 12:34.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Yes I believe your right. Spirit is pure and that can be sometimes difficult to comprehend. But it is no surprise that so much of the dark forces mission is to dumb us down, drug us and distract us. Even in our minds we have parasites that are so clever and insidious that we are not even aware that they exist and feed off of us. Its staggering how much of a war is going on here and that how much has been poured into this earthly experience. It's like all the ills and wickedness of all the universe's has been planted here on this good earth to grow. And we are the processing plant to transform it and bring value to it. I kind of feel that this is totally managed from the creator sphere like making a great soup. I know that sounds harsh from our perspective but how must this creator feel about us if we are here to make this transformation. We've got to be some serious beings (all of us) to face this hellish soup concocted here (i read once that no one comes to earthly experience unless they have been a master or mastered a level of creation. It is staggering to imagine how much effort is given for life to exist here, the sacrafice given is beyond my comprehension and we so much want this to change quickly for the good of all but spirit i imagine is in no rush and will do everything it takes for people to catch on and wake up. What an amazing courageous heart Spirit is but also bloody frightening to imagine. And this iswho we are all of us and this is what i remember. It is sooo sad and my heart bleeds for this pain we and our family are going through but I must honour this sacrafice and fight the good fight and honour this great Spirit that has undertaken this creation and all that that entails even when In my conscious mind i disagree with it. I believe Spirit will redeem all hells and all pain and karma and make something that we cannot conceptualize in words or imagination. My favourite line that has stuck in my memory (and for me captures the essence of this )and was written by Tolkien in the Lord of the Rings (return of the king) was when Gandalf the wizard said.....there are many folk who wish to know beforehand what is to be set on the table, but those who labour to prepare the feast will keep their secret, for wonder makes the words of praise grow louder.
    Last edited by raff; 14th May 2016 at 14:55.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Thank you for this thread.

    I have to say, I see this as just a part of a much, MUCH wider phenomenon that's unfolding all around us. Read this thread:

    The Cry of Gaia

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...he-Cry-of-Gaia

    The human race is becoming increasingly disconnected from nature.
    We all lose, not just the 150 species that are becoming extinct each day.

    We're in the middle of the sixth mass extinction on this planet in the last several billion years. Right now, as you're reading these words.

    From the introduction to Thom Hartmann's masterwork, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight:




    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 14th May 2016 at 15:43.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?
    Hi Kirolak

    I read your post some days ago and wanted to reply but didn't have the words to convey something which may be of help to you ... but then this quote came to mind just now so here it is as it is something that has helped "me" on my journey

    To live a spiritual life we must first find the courage
    to enter into the desert of loneliness and to change it
    by gentle and persistent efforts into a garden of solitude.

    Henri Nouwen

    Apologies if it is unrelated to what you were "getting at" with your original post !

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Wow Bill what an article. I'll try not to get all fan girlie on you as i am after all a geezer from sarf London and we have standards to maintain. Beautiful and full of pathos. I need to re-read your article because it's so beautiful and profound. Much obliged to you.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?
    I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

    but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

    The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .

    Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
    Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

    There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

    Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

    the state free of suffering is not of this world


    in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
    that will heal the rest


    uhhh so powerfull and so so true.. thank you I needed that, because I also have big problems with the acceptance of brutality in this world..

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Bill, I don't know how I missed that most beautiful thread, but I was overwhelmed with the beauty and truth you so eloquently shared. I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is the huge disconnect from the natural world that allows what is happening to occur. How many children grow up and have no real idea where food comes from? The disconnect is all pervading. Children are taught to not get dirty, to have a terrible fear of all germs and to fear animals, unless they have been domesticated by humans.

    There is also, the helplessness. How do we stop this insanity? We no longer look at the whole of things. Everything seems to be broken up for the purpose of greed and quick profit. We no longer understand that everything is connected and one act will effect the whole. Everything that we do matters.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Isserley (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?
    I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

    but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

    The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .

    Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
    Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

    There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

    Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

    the state free of suffering is not of this world


    in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
    that will heal the rest


    uhhh so powerfull and so so true.. thank you I needed that, because I also have big problems with the acceptance of brutality in this world..
    Which is where I'd suggest Compassion comes into play because by being in touch with our own Mortality could bring about the understanding that we're all on the same boat together (so-to-speak) ...

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Dear Peterpam, the world is a big place and we cannot carry this all on our shoulders. We can pray, unite and meditate and do many more things (i always loved the idea of marching in every city centre across the world with a multitude of those animals/people that are farmed and shock/awaken the conscience of everyone to this daily holocaust) and everything we can do has an impact. But as you know people are hard to convince or even change their habits. I asked mother earth once how may I best serve her and the feeling i got was to be happy, as happy as I could make it. Imo If we have a job to do is not to forget our brethren and find whatever means to plant goodlife and happiness on this here good earth. Follow the stream of one's heart and all dreams will be fulfilled.
    Last edited by raff; 14th May 2016 at 20:43.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?
    I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

    but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

    The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering'. [1]

    Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
    Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

    There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

    Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

    the state free of suffering is not of this world [3]


    in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
    that will heal the rest


    Oh, Hi Agape

    I hope you don't mind if I query a couple of points as highlighted above ?

    Now as I don't know what your source is for [1] and [3] I'd like to post a different interpretation of the 4NT's which I consider are rendered in a much more positive light ... this from RigpaWiki :

    The Four Noble Truths or the Four Realities of the Aryas, were taught by Buddha Shakyamuni as the central theme of the so-called first turning of the wheel of the Dharma after his attainment of enlightenment. They are:

    1. The truth (or reality) of suffering which is to be understood,
    2. The truth (or reality) of the origin of suffering, which is to be abandoned,
    3. The truth (or reality) of cessation, which is to be actualized, and
    4. The truth (or reality) of the path, which is to be relied upon.

    In other words, like a doctor, Buddha Shakyamuni diagnosed our illness, wrote out a prescription and left it to us to take the medicine eh ?

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)

    The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .
    That was a description.

    Not a prescription.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    For 30 years, I've never said or thought of the concept of "greenpeace."

    I've said greenwar.

    Why someone has not done something like drive a flaming transport truck (at speed) through the front office doors of a a group like (eg) Monsanto, (or whomever) is beyond me.

    People really are asleep.
    Last edited by Carmody; 15th May 2016 at 00:50.
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    For 30 years, I've near said or thought of the concept of "greenpeace."

    I've said greenwar.

    Why someone has not done something like drive a flaming transport truck (at speed) through the front office doors of a a group like (eg) Monsanto, (or whomever) is beyond me.
    Very highly recommended: The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey.

    From Wikipedia:

    Edward Paul Abbey
    (January 29, 1927 – March 14, 1989) was an American author and essayist noted for his advocacy of environmental criticism of public land policies, and anarchist political views. His best-known works include the novel The Monkey Wrench Gang, which has been cited as an inspiration by radical environmental groups.

    The book is both a work of genius and a riot to read — and definitely inspiring, too. It's pretty easy to imagine someone putting the book down after the final page and heading straight for Monsanto.

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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)

    The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .
    That was a description.

    Not a prescription.
    Well. The prescription is .. follow the chain of causes and consequences so to uncover causes of suffering within you ,

    trace all to the origins of ignorance for indeed we suffer for we don't know .

    And then , severe the head of the monster dragon , within you so you will also defeat both worlds and will be known as the great Dragon Slayer in the vaster realm of Dhammakaya.

    Always abide by the principles of loving kindness , and righteousness ..

    and never talk to the Man in Hat .



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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 15th May 2016 at 00:22.

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    Avalon Member Verdilac's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

    I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

    The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.


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    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Quote Posted by Verdilac (here)
    This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

    I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

    The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.



    You are so right, Verdilac. Humans do not seem to have a place on this earth. We disrupt the balance. It seems very clear to me as well that there would be a balance of give and take if humans were not here.

    That is the greatest mystery. Maybe we did have our DNA altered, maybe we are cursed. It seems as though we were placed here after the fact. One thing that seems apparent, we came with a gnawing emptiness that seems insatiable.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

    Thank you!! That's a real gift.

    The direct download link from that page is
    http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/th...dwardabbey.pdf

    As I mentioned above, reading this is enough to motivate anyone to take direct action. The relevance (besides it being a most wonderful, iconic book) is that not too long ago, people would have gone out (and did go out) to do stuff.

    Now — people stay at home, write blogs, make YouTube videos, and post on forums.

    I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

    Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.

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