ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

[Pam]

Posted by Verdilac (here)
This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0h_F1VhIJoM

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

pdf - The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey

Thank you!! That's a real gift.

The direct download link from that page is
http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/th...dwardabbey.pdf

As I mentioned above, reading this is enough to motivate anyone to take direct action. The relevance (besides it being a most wonderful, iconic book) is that not too long ago, people would have gone out (and did go out) to do stuff.

Now — people stay at home, write blogs, make YouTube videos, and post on forums.

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.

Thanks, Bill. I am going to read the book! I couldn't help but share the following, which I think paints a picture of the human condition. I went to Amazon to look at the details of the book. I read one of the reviews and can't help but share it here.


"The name Edward Abbey is a foul couple of words for some, and is followed by foul language off the tongue of the same people. But, it shouldn't...both for his great body writings and for his fierce appreciation for everything that makes the American West great. "The Monkey Wrench Gang" and its sequel "Hayduke Lives" are classic American Literature as well as important social commentary on who we are and what should matter to us as a society and a country. (This review is for both books so might be a bit longer than usual.)

Yes, Abbey was an environmentalist; but, a he was also flawed just as we all are in this area - when he was younger on his first visit to the Grand Canyon, he rolled a tire over the edge because he could. He already appreciated the American West, but the human side of him did it anyway. Yes, Abbey was a curmudgeon; but, it worked - he got the attention of everyone, on both sides of any issue."

[Agape]

Posted by peterpam (here)
That is the greatest mystery. Maybe we did have our DNA altered, maybe we are cursed. It seems as though we were placed here after the fact. One thing that seems apparent, we came with a gnawing emptiness that seems insatiable.

No , human being is not meant to be a 'predator' . No advanced intelligence in the Universe is predatory by nature for the simple fact they'd run out of resources sooner or later . Although , by ingesting or inter-breeding of 'alien species biological information' your own genomic make-up is altered , lowered in this case in favour of the animal predatory behaviour.
Humans were confined to here for millions of years till now , so were animals and man has learned from them to kill .
So sad if people can't stop doing it , are run by their biological instincts till now , lost the control of themselves .
I believe that many of the modern 'civilisation diseases' , autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis , diabetes and countless cases of neurological and organ failures, are partially and directly or not linked to human immune system confusing itself over 'alien information' it can not efficiently process : animal proteins in their variety and large amounts .
We're not talking of tiny 'in vitro' experiments here but of massive , generations lasting overfeeding of human by members of lower species .
Godbless.

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.

I've said the same thing , years ago .. : what the TV could not accomplish in numbing the masses to 'mass entertainment' and keeping everyone seated safe in their living rooms the internet has done without failure.

It now creates almost perfect illusion of everything , creativity, communication, accomplishment , credibility , relationships .
For most people it seems to offer 'a second life' , affordable option , and information of course - at no cost .

I was disenchanted with people 'on the net' years ago when I thought that internet is great tool made to connect people and ideas and do the right thing .
I was late with being new to it in 2006 and thought of it differently .. before I found it's millions of people who want to do nothing but 'hanging on the net' , evening after evening after evening . People getting their 'best information' from the net too to the extent they're not really interested in the 'real thing' anymore .

And it's turned worse and was only logical, not unexpected , what we've seen over the past few years , surge of paranoia affecting the social media sites , people playing games with people , the shadow necessarily followed .. the light . Bigger the light bigger the shadow.

Not to speak about a generation of youth whose eye sight will suffer after daily and constant many hours exposure to the bright screens .

People seem to be generally , better informed now, thanks to internet and wherever you go .. but , they're getting lethargic and do less for the real life .

Could be just another facet of the overall problem ..

it's not 'only animals' . It's humans to humans and the shocking ( to me ) fact how the so called 'developed civilisation' quickly unlearned to help each other ( if it can be payed ) , how no one wants to think on their own ( because someone else did it anyway ) and world that is losing time and lives because they cost so little nowadays .


Better to start running for lives till it's late

[raff]

Some of things you say just trigger my memories Peterpam. I'm reminded of a "dream" i had when I saw surrounding my bedside four deermen and behind them let's just say (i don't feel i should be specific) a divinity associated with Scandinavian lore. The deermen were humonoid but with a deers head. The feeling I had was not fear but I felt a certain power that i can't define as dark but definitely powerful. Days later when i researched who these deermen were I came across the story of the world tree Yggdrasil (not sure i spelt that correctly) and the 4 deer that eat at the branches of the tree. Part of the telling explains that at the roots of the tree lies a dragon that gnaws at the roots of the world tree. I instinctively felt that this was the source of hunger for all beings this insatiable need to feed. I never before felt that close to Scandinavian mythology at all but I certainly pay attention to it now after that dream several years ago. I go back to my initial remark that we as human beings are part of something that needs to be transformed and we are the processing plant of this cosmic karma. A karma that we didn't necessarily create.

[Pam]

Posted by Verdilac (here)
This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0h_F1VhIJoM

Posted by Joe (here)
The video is blocked on youtube from viewing without logging in. Here is a website with transcript, and the video is embedded, so I was able to watch it here:

http://bitesizevegan.com/ethics-and-...st-lie-speech/


I have a question for the vegans and animal activists. Many small family farmsteads are working in harmony with nature. Animals are an important part of the natural ecosystem, and can be integral to pest control and weed and pasture grazing when developing a permaculture system. Is the argument against eating all meat, even milk and eggs raised in a more natural environment? The video throws all non-vegans into the same group as commercial inhumane agriculture practices. If you are trying to end the inhumane ag practices, it would behove you to not throw every non-vegan under the bus, because you are loosing a lot of activists who would like to see cruel animal practices ended. If the purpose of the video is to advocate for veganism, the argument fails because there are many non-vegans that do not consume animals that are raped or tortured.

Your questions are thoughtful and valid. Joe. I can only speak for myself, but the fact that I don't eat animals or use their products to the best of my knowledge is a personal one. Of course, I would prefer that no one did, but what I hope is that we as humans, treat animals and all living things, which includes mother earth with the dignity and respect that is due them. They do not need to be looked at as strictly a means to an end. If they are raised for food, why can't they be raised in conditions that makes whatever life they have tolerable? Why can't they be raised under conditions of gratitude? I will never forget the way taking a life for food was depicted in the movie "Avatar". It brings tears to my eyes as I think of it. The life was taken with gratitude and respect. Only what was needed was taken.

I recently completed Master Gardener training and I came away with a much deeper respect and awe for dirt. Yes, good old dirt. It is most magnificent and if is teeming with a myriad of creatures. It is the blood of the planet. I am in awe of it. Once again, soil has been so disrespected and abused. It needs to be nurtured and sustained.

There will be those vegans that will totally disagree with me. They will not even consider a scenario of taking animal life that is acceptable. I think I am more of a realist. I do not believe mankind will evolve from where it is today to be vegans filled with gratitude tomorrow. Change will only occur when consciousness evolves and that usually happens in steps, it is a process. So today, I will be very content with gratitude and respect.

Just as Bill stated, it is the disconnect from all of this that allows us to look the other way. It takes guts to look at the truth, because then you have to do something or have that nagging reality that your life is a hypocrisy. I do wonder if there are those that just don't give a rip. As long as they are not being directly impacted they could care less.

Joe, I agree that taking a stance of moral superiority is not going to create any lasting change and in the end will be a detriment to the cause. I think sometimes what appears as moral superiority in vegans is the dogged dedication to the cause.Having said that, any time we let the unbridled ego take charge, in any circumstances the outcome will not be the best possible. Very few of us are exempt from the possibility of this happening and I am sure there are lots of examples of this in the area of animal rights and veganism.

[Matthew]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
...
Thank you!! That's a real gift.

The direct download link from that page is
http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/th...dwardabbey.pdf

...

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

...

I've seen the internet mobilise people to legal direct action. Bill, if you were describing television I would totally agree but only partially agree that the internet promotes inactivity and helplessness. I first learnt the power of protest before I joined Avalon and this was exclusively through the internet.

The internet can be used well in conjunction with whatever protest rights you legally have and I bet it's used with all modern protests.

But on the other side of the OP I also feel there's too much isolation between how we get food and how it's produced. Strangely the more I feel we're not alone in the universe the more I feel like we need to be more respectful to so called 'lesser species'. The way we treat captured primates for example seems similar to the experience of abductees. So if I don't like behaviour like that on humans why would I think it's ok for other life forms?

[DNA]

As a kid in the states, we were force fed "the rainforests are dying" and "all the animals are going extinct" since I was a little kid. Seriously I remember having serious discussians about it with friends as a 3rd grade kid. All the while this constant guilt that my very presence, the fact that I was born is contributing to all of this destruction/death/extinction.
This guilt stuck with me all of my life until I was about 25. I DECIDED to stop feeling guilty. I DECIDED that it wasn't little kids this message needed to be spread to, it was the conference rooms of big corporations that needed to see this.

I do not feel guilty any more.
In my honest opinion, we are the latest asteroid to strike this planet and cause a mass die off.
The animals have had their time, and they will have their time again.
It is only a small blip in the geologic sense that humans are here causing so much death and destruction.

And we all KNOW that our reign is coming to an end, very very soon.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HUGB0SKkKVw

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by peterpam (here)

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

See this thread:
THE ULTIMATE PLAN (a fairy story... maybe)

In that, a step onward from my earlier thread From Bill Ryan -- the Ultimate Hypothesis, I speculate that one possibility behind the breakaway civilization and the secret space program is that there might be an ET-supported plan to remove humanity from Planet Earth and preserve it as the galactic equivalent of a national park. I didn't mean it as a joke.

Posted by YoYoYo (here)

The way we treat captured primates for example seems similar to the experience of abductees.

Do also see this!
A metaphor about abduction

[Limor Wolf]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way!

The notion in my thread was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I wouldn't jump on any ship before asking if they are for the benefit of mankind. If not you can ask them to leave your space. This is a universal law.

If the Earth Planet decides to flip...what would you do...would you stay or trust Mr ET and jump aboard...just some thoughts.

Viking

[Pam]

[QUOTE]

Imagine that above ALL of those, there was one individual, the capstone of the pyramid. The Godfather, as it were.

Imagine that this individual considers himself (and is considered to be) 'Royal'.

Imagine that somehow he does not age... or is maybe simply many, many hundreds of years old. He is 'always there'. His name is only known by those in his immediate circle.

Imagine that he is felt to be 'untouchable'. No 'coup' would ever be considered.

Imagine that he observes all in his domain with tolerance and dispassion. He has seen it all. He does not attend the rituals, the 'costume parties', the practices that we would call barbaric, evil and satanic.

Imagine that he just lets that all happen. He lets it all roll. Imagine that he is the ultimate Darwinian theorist: meaning, that if things evolve in a certain way, then it's all natural and 'good'. But of course, the very act of human decision-making is also part of that natural process.

Imagine that this individual is convinced that God does not exist. Otherwise, He would have intervened. Therefore, this man must play God. He considers it his Duty.

Imagine that this individual does not like what he sees. He does not like the destruction of this beautiful planet. He despises the small stupidity of so many humans. He does not endorse the large-scale, destructive, power-grabbing selfishness of those below him in the power structure.

Imagine he is a genuine lover of art, music, nature, philosophy, literature. Imagine he is a man of vision... in his own terms, by his own definition.

Imagine that he has decided he is going to save the planet.

And imagine that is why the ruling elite are planning to EVACUATE the planet.

Imagine that it's been broadly decided, or agreed, or accepted, among the many races of ETs looking on, that Planet Earth should be — and the term sounds trite — a kind of GALACTIC PLANETARY WILDLIFE PARK. A huge nature reserve. For the benefit of all. That the Earth should be allowed to lie fallow, to regenerate, to heal, to recover... which it would, in maybe less than a few hundred years, without the destructive influence of Man.

Imagine that the problem is the 'parasitic infestation' of the rest of the human race.

Imagine that a decision has been made to rid the Earth of this parasite... using the kind of weapons we would use to rid a house of termites, or black mold. (What would we do? We would 'treat the house'... and would leave it for a while until it was EITHER safe to return.... OR we would SELL the house, now in good condition again.)

OR, if it was a beautiful old house, of great historical and cultural interest, with a very beautiful centuries-old garden, maybe the wealthy owners, having fumigated it and restored it to its original condition, would donate it to the nation.

Maybe no-one would live in it at all.

Bill, this quote from your "The Ultimate Plan" gives me the shivers. I know this will not be popular to say it but I can understand how this could happen. I can empathize with those who would see our lack of respect and shortsightedness and would have to come to the conclusion you have described. At the same time, it would sadden me to see the destruction of my species, particularly when I think about the children.

What do you do with a house guest, that loots and destroys your beautiful home while killing and injuring the other guests at what should have been the most wonderful of parties but has turned into an unceasing nightmare ?

[gripreaper]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I don't know, after this winter, I'm wondering if it would not be a good idea to get off this planet cause I think they're trying to kill me. The virus released this winter, and the chemtrail mixture were much more virulent and it quite frankly almost took me out. I've noticed extreme upper respiratory illness this winter, and of course we hear of famous people succumbing to it, but I think there were a lot more who succumbed who never made the news.

This lends credence to the scenario, one of the five which I outlined in post #12 here in Bill's thread, where the planet is being terraformed for a new hybrid species, one which is already developed, which is designed to be more conducive to a more toxic radiant atmosphere. This atmosphere is being engineered so that those who have been underground for thousands of years can come forward into the light and live on the surface and, due to their reptilian nature, currently cannot breathe the air, but once terraformed, they will be able to.

Besides, all of us current humans are being bred for the ultimate human sacrifice to the astral gods who are directing this transformation, as these energy beings stuck in the astral need our energy to vampire in order to sustain them and they get aroused by it. No longer is 50 million in a war, or 100 million by the spanish flu enough to satiate their vampiristic needs, and they are calling for the ultimate sacrifice of 10 billion all at once to see how it feels. We should reach that population within the next decade, and just about the time that the earth will be terraformed and ready for the reptilians to emerge.

So, maybe we could weaponize ourselves and take over any benevolent spacecraft which come to rescue and save us, and we could then over take another planet, enslave the indigenous peoples, get them to mine gold for us, build a hedonistic playground for us, and then once they have completed this task, destroy them. We could probably get them to do this without them even knowing, all the while thinking they are free and that everything is awesome and that they have saviors to rescue them if anything goes wrong.

That's what I recommend.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way!

The notion in my thread was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

Just a thought Bill...why should I run away with all that's going on here on planet Earth. Chemtrails...Starvation. .wars.. bloody mindless greedy capitalism... ect ect...where's it all going I ask myself?.. can it get any worse...probably...and will. Runaway...? ET to land...please...Chance would be fine....bring it on.

Viking

[Verdilac]

Well instead of all of the pointless wars that misinformed people fight for profit, power & greed, Just imagine what we could actually achieve if we were all switched on enough to use our intellect to fight for the earth & all of its creatures.
As I'm quite sure that's why a lot of us may really be here, it may be an uncomfortable realisation but it actually may start with this & end with this. Can you honestly think of anything more important or pressing.

And oh in response to the ET's coming to save anyone .If there is anyone in ships dropping by & asking if you want to go with them, what you should be asking them is. Why aren't they making a stand with us. As we know in our hearts the answers are in our hands if only we would accept them. That may sound like an empty ideological statement, but that's what I genuinely think and seriously doubt I'm alone .

The 1st issue to be addressed is stop seeing other living things as food and thinking you have the rite to kill them. If that all seems like a giant step away form your current position. Then a good starting point would begin with spiders ,flys & other small insects. Take a moment out of your busy day to look at them when they creep of fly into your space and you may come to realise that they may actually be curious about you. A Human ,that massive moving thing with 4 limbs & 2 eyes that smells wonderful or not so wonderful. Would many of us not have such an interest in a giant if we had the chance to observe one. You may think this is off topic but from this basic understanding and respect for all life an idea can flourish & give a greater understanding of everything.

I've heard a lot of people say that direct action is dead but that doesn't seem to be so. Sure the direct action people take is different these days. One of the best forms of direct action in my humble opinion may be to vote with your feet or to coin a much used phrase " be the change to want to see in the world" as languishing incarcerated in a prison from some knee jerk physical direct action you haven't thought through may not be using you body & mind to the best of its abilities.

[gripreaper]

[Agape]

I offer to sort it out for you

We are all anthropoids basically . From the tiny one cellular organism to the advanced forms of life you have all one head and four or five little flagelle.

There's the 'cell' , 'the padded cell' of your central nervous system and limbs that reach out to the physical environment . Now you're lucky to be out of water , supporting yourself on two of your tiny legs , floating like bubble in the midair .

Like crystals, you crystallise to various patterns of life forms , one more beautiful and complicated than the other
we are not here to compete ..

life exists, the web of life pervades the Universe like silver lining on huge cake covered with lots of ice cream

Life is the sublimation of information and energy , that's how it's also rare..


The iconic movie The Earth Stood Still tries to convey similar message ..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=an4uQJSo6Eg

[Agape]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way!

The notion in my thread was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

The 'elite' have built themselves the safest nuclear bunkers from what we've seen so far, they're well fed , well clad and doubt they so want to go anywhere at all.


I have none of those people on my waiting list unless they dressed up for beggars ..

[Akasha]

Dear Kirolak, it's so encouraging to see this thread, and the positive and heartfelt response it's generated, particularly when I'd all but given up bashing my head against the Avalon wall in the All things Vegan thread, so thank you!

As I see it, going plant-based is simply golden rule 101 in action and I still feel that our collective transition to this lifestyle will show itself to be the most significant factor in our survival on this planet......not to mention one step closer to some semblance of a tangible utopia.

Idealistic? Of course, but I'm determined to dream big on this one.

[Agape]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I don't know what to tell people anymore ? Sorry. Just to say hello.



They will come . But we don't know when . That's all we know. 'They' say the time is irrelevant . It will be when we are ready .

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg

Love is the only religion

[Bill Ryan]

.
— please.