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    Exclamation Do ETs exist?

    Although one has to keep an open mind about such mind blowing topics, I remain quite sceptical about the whole alien-UFO phenomenon.

    I don't really believe that we are being visited (other than in vehicles known as "the human body").

    The other day I listened to a fascinating discussion with Joseph Farrell which I thoroughly commend to everyone interested in this subject. It was called "The Spider in Roswell" and in it he makes a compelling case that the Roswell incident was a thoroughly earthbound phenomenon where the "Alien" aspect was added years later to help obscure the fact that much of Nazi research had in fact continued in secret after the end of WWII.

    Other reasons I'm sceptical is that something so universal as a visitation by alien life would be just that - UNIVERSAL. It isn't something you could keep the secret of a few members of human society as if we're playing some cops and robbers game.

    Despite the fact that there's clearly a viable case to be made that the universe is teeming with life - much of it "intelligent", it's also the case that physical incarnations of that life are likely to be "stations" in existence. In other words, the universe is like a rainbow - you incarnate on one planet, you can see others but only in the past. You can never reach them in the present without dis-incarnating first and re-entering a non-dimensional existence.

    In other words, the universe is relative. What we see exists only as long as we stay put. The same applies to anyone else in a physical existence at any other random space-time juncture. Hundreds of people are being born every minute - those are the arrivals, not tin-can saucers.

    I therefore believe that whatever NASA's preparing people for is simply more of the same they've always "prepared people for". i.e. The next chapter in their never ending fairy tale that keeps the masses swallowing their pre-prepared agendas.

    Thats the end of my health warning for anyone proposing to drink any of the NASA-UFO coolaid
    Last edited by indigopete; 11th May 2016 at 15:40.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Idigopete, of course there could be a big psy-op about much of the ufo phenomenon, however to say that interstellar visitation does not take place here or might not be taking place, would be ignoring the facts. Eye witness UFO encounters world wide number in the tens of thousands or more since WW2. Video footage and still pics of ufo's near similar volumes. Abduction testimony numbers in the thousands for the same period. Animal mutilations numbers in the the thousands of incidents yearly. Historical accounts, ancient and otherwise, also describe encounters with offworlders. Not to mention the suppressed info on recent crash recoveries that exist, such as described in credible eyewitness accounts, such as The Day After Roswell by Col. Corso. To ignore this evidence of offworlder visitations here is to deny the facts, imo.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Idigopete, of course there could be a big psy-op about much of the ufo phenomenon, however to say that interstellar visitation does not take place here or might not be taking place, would be ignoring the facts. Eye witness UFO encounters world wide...To ignore this evidence of offworlder visitations here is to deny the facts, imo.
    How is any of that evidence of "alien visitations" ?

    All it is is evidence of Hollywood's projection of "alien visitations". None of us have any clue as to what the characteristics of alien life are so we have no reference points. The "reference points" have all been supplied to us by the media.

    I do not think that testimony of abductions, cattle mutilations, sightings of high performance craft are evidence of anything other than strange phenomena that can only be accounted for by secret technology or other earthbound sources.

    They could of course be "alien" as you say. All I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely - as in less likely than seeing a genuine flying pig.

    The thing is, it's very difficult to travel to other planets, but it's very easy to convince people of stuff. In this case, the reason it's easy is because most cannot (or do not) make an intuitive appraisal of the practicalities involved. They think that interstellar travel is like airline travel - just something thats waiting to be invented.

    It isn't.

    There is no such thing as interstellar travel as far as incarnate beings goes because mass - almost by definition - is a destination in its own right, not a vehicle. It would be like trying to move the whole of London to New York just let one Londoner visit New York. Completely pointless.

    If we were really being "visited" you wouldn't be seeing the odd glimpse of a shimmering light. You'd have half of every main street teaming with aliens. Hey, guess what - we do !! They're called us and we arrive in bodies, not saucers LoL

    Seriously though, this phenomenon is not something arriving from other planets IMO and people should start waking up to that likelihood.
    Last edited by indigopete; 11th May 2016 at 16:48.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    whatever NASA's preparing people for is simply more of the same they've always "prepared people for". i.e. The next chapter in their never ending fairy tale that keeps the masses swallowing their pre-prepared agendas.

    Thats the end of my health warning for anyone proposing to drink any of the NASA-UFO coolaid
    That concerns me more than anything else on the subject. We get most (if not all) of our knowledge about the cosmos from NASA yet we’re always finding reasons not to trust them.
    Seeing the dire state of the economies (the world in general) there is no other perfect plan (and timing) to keep the masses trained and dependent. Keep them under control by having them believing in something more powerful them.

    It’s hard to imagine that a universe can be so vast in scale and life…yet not one person can produce anything at all that will support the “ideas” of life elsewhere other than here. In fact, most people believe simply because they see that other people believe. But, what if the space we see in the sky isn’t nothing like we were told it was? After all, none of us have the means to actually verify these very intriguing claims. So what is it that makes some us believe in the unproven?

    I’m all for the truth, I just don’t want to be like those that went from the cradle to their graves believing false ideologies like the world being flat, or is it….haha
    Seems like the the trap is nearly set…but who/what will be the bait and who/what will be the prize? Watch and See

    Peace
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    Humans created so much wonder through their division, just imagine what they can do through Unity...

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Idigopete, the following statement i would question:

    "There is no such thing as interstellar travel as far as incarnate beings goes because mass - almost by definition - is a destination in its own right, not a vehicle. It would be like trying to move the whole of London to New York just let one Londoner visit New York. Completely pointless...
    If we were really being "visited" you wouldn't be seeing the odd glimpse of a shimmering light. You'd have half of every main street teaming with aliens."

    How do you know that interstellar travel is impossible? You believe Einstein's theory of relativity is the absolute truth, just as nineteenth century scientists believed the newtonian physics would answer all questions, just like before kepler the world was demonstrably flat?

    Our scientific understanding of nature has been developing for a few hundred years. Do you think there is nothing left to discover that might permit interstellar travel? Even current science has identified nutrinos travelling faster than the speed of light. Quantum entanglement has allowed instantaneous communications over distances (ie. faster than the speed of light).

    Ben Rich, the one time boss at Lockheed skunkworks, was quoted in the 90's as saying they already had developed interstellar tech, and that some of Einstein's equations were wrong (Einstein never succeeded in developing a unified field theory although apparently there are several proposed theories that are now available for verification).

    Given this info, i brlieve interstellar travel is not only possible, but is quite probable. The fact current Earth tech is relatively new makes it a reasonable assumption that older off world hi tech civilizations would have already developed it. By NASA's own estimates, our galaxy alone probably harbours billions of earthlike planets, making the probabilities that other older civilizations not existing relatively close by so miniscule to being nearly impossible. Just because aliens arent parading around in broad daylight broadcasting their existence does not prove they are not here. Some would say they are broadcasting their presence via crop circles, visual craft sightings, abductions, etc.

    Based on these 'facts' i would conclude that your assertions of interstellar travel is impossible (and therefore off worlder ufo visitations are impossible) as being erroneous.

    Of course, you are entitled to believe whatever you want, but i wont be joining you there.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Idigopete, the following statement i would question: "There is no such thing as interstellar travel..."

    How do you know that interstellar travel is impossible?... You believe Einstein's theory of relativity is the absolute truth, just as nineteenth century scientists believed the newtonian physics would answer all questions
    No - I'm as sceptical of institutionalised thinking as many contributors to these threads.

    However, at the same time, Einstein's theory is as much a philosophical discovery as a practical one and it's pretty conclusive - at least as far as anything with a finite mass is concerned. (It does not apply to the massless realm and it could be argued that our whole experiential existence goes on in this realm so it doesn't mean that the doors are closed to speculative musings about our infinite universal existence).

    Think of it this way.

    Lets say you live in London and went to Australia on the Monday for a week's holiday on a plane. Then on Tuesday you decided to take a walk to a park, but picked a park back in London. i.e. you just endured a 24 hour flight to Australia and the next day you decided to take a walk 26,000 miles, on foot, in order to spend an hour in a nice park.

    In the analogy, the aeroplane is the spiritual realm from which we incarnate into bodies and the "walk to the park" represents travel in the material realm.

    See the logic fail ?

    When you realise how short our physical lifetimes are compared to astronomical distances and times, everything falls into place, including why there's no 'aliens' here. The reason is that we simply hold a flawed definition of that word. The aliens are here - same as Londoners are in Australia - it's just they all get Australian accents and Australian passports the moment they land and they don't bother attempting 26,000 mile morning walks between flights.

    Another thing in favour of this way of looking at things is that it doesn't even require dismissal of Einstein's theory since relativity does not limit the speed of massless objects (our plane in the analogy). In fact a related field (quantum mechanics) positively demonstrates that travel can be instant in a concept known as quantum engagement or action at a distance.

    On the other hand, the theory that aliens are here in physical bodies that have actually travelled form other star systems in ships just does not add up at all. It requires a wholesale dismissal of all we know about physics, spirituality, interchangeability of energy and matter, human social behaviour, historical precedents for manipulation of the masses. We know that such hoaxes have been going on throughout the centuries so why should this not be one also ?

    There's another thing to consider that I haven't mentioned but that is just as important. That is that we need to consider the fact that the universe as we see it does not exist. We only ever see it as it was years ago - even when looking at the nearest stars with the naked eye. The implications of this (combined with Einstein's theory) are profound because they are that it is unknowable from any subjective perspective. Thats another nail in the coffin for the 'aliens' theory that I can't really see how one would get round without successive incarnations at least.

    I realise it's a kind of screwy concept but thats because we're so used to local phenomena - extremely short distances where things happen within a single lifetime. That keeps us busy so we don't have to bother with profound concepts that only apply at astronomical scales.

    All of these things lead me to believe that the UFO phenomenon is conclusively earthbound. As I say - it's far easier to convince people of nonsense than it is to present a convincing argument that it's genuine. It's all psychology and always has been IMO. To believe anything else should take a whole lot more than some mutilated cattle and reports of being beamed up to a spaceship for an "operation", however genuine those reports may be.
    Last edited by indigopete; 11th May 2016 at 21:42.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    9/11 opened my eyes to the way the world works.

    (Well actually, The Mayan Factor did but 9/11 sealed it).

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Indigopete, sorry, you lost me with the walk in the park analogy. You make a good point, however, on how masslessness might effect velocity. Richard D. Hall has an excellent analysis on the claims of the TR-3B secret space program craft and how it loses 90% of its mass. If a spaceship were to lose all its mass then it likely could reach phenomenal speeds, thus making my point that interstellar travel is probably feasible with hi tech.

    Another interesting case of hard evidence of E.T. presence on earth is shown in Lloyd Pye's starchild reaearch which shows dna analysis that this creature was of no known earthly gnome.

    I would not argue against interdimensional beings visiting earth either, ghosts being an example, evil spirits being another.

    All the evidence I've sited is open to debate, however, i have given an exhaustive list of evidence for an E.T. presence here. I have to say that you have not provided much, if any evidence, that supports your position, from my vantage, anyway. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Another interesting case of hard evidence of E.T. presence on earth is shown in Lloyd Pye's starchild reaearch which shows dna analysis that this creature was of no known earthly gnome.
    That type of thing is only evidence of alien presence for those who've already convinced themselves of it. For any impartial observer it's just a biological anomaly amongst thousands of such anomalies throughout history.

    The thing about propaganda is that it's best done by its subjects themselves in a way that leaves them thinking they've created the agenda. With regard to the E.T. case, the "authorities" now have people exactly where they want them in that regard - in the palm of their hand begging for "disclosure".

    What do you notice about this situation ?

    What I notice is that fertile ground has been laid for a mass brainwashing exercise that hands some kind of blank cheque to the powers that be. The MO is the same as with events like 9/11.

    I used to have a lot of time for the 'alien agenda'. Like others on here I devoured all known videos, testimony and historical anecdotes on the subject. But over time 2 strands of observations have brought me to the conclusion that it's all a hoax:

    [1] - I spent a great deal of time thinking about the philosophy and science of it all and realised that - though we are probably not alone in some kind of spiritual dimension - we are most likely alone in the material one. (Much like a raindrop can only be 'everywhere at once' while it's in the ether known as water vapour. Once it precipitates, its locality forms an integral part of its existential definition for as long as it remains liquid)

    [2] - I've realised that the politics of the 20th century largely revolved around covert mass manipulation of one sort or another and that the "ET" phenomenon is probably just another instance of such. A manufactured, reality distortion tool amongst others as wide ranging as the 'terrorist threat', the concept of 'debt as money', man made global warming and the idea of the state as a proxy for the 'people'

    As for evidence of ET's, the truth is there is none. There are anecdotal testimonies about flashing lights, mutilations and teleportations which are not evidence of anything other than strange phenomena that remain unexplained. People would do well to acknowledge that fact because evidence of interstellar travel looks a whole lot different to any of those things.

    Like I say - although it doesn't sound like it now, I've always remained open minded about this subject and will continue to be so. However it's my open mindedness that has led me to these conclusions. I've been on both sides of the fence in this debate (mostly on the pro-ET presence side actually) at one time or another. But at some point one needs to sum up the aggregate weight of everything one knows about everything. Not just anecdotal interviews on Youtube but also about life itself - as if you'd never come across an internet terminal.

    I'm sorry but the weight of evidence is not that 'ET is here'. The weight of evidence is that this is one big propaganda exercise the same as all others, who's objective is to provide convenient cover for whatever covert agendas of the day are in progress.
    Last edited by indigopete; 12th May 2016 at 13:09.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Indigopete, the argument you use saying that the starchild's dna being a "normal" aberration, when dna mapping never shows such anomalies, is just a cop out for not being able to explain legitimate evidence that contradicts your position.

    Just because you think you have had a "realization" does not mean that your conclusion is correct. There is outstanding evidence of E.T. presence here that is not the result of a psy-op, you are just too closed minded to see.

    You are an example of someone who creates his own reality, one that is not shared with the evidence.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Indigopete, the argument you use saying that the starchild's dna being a "normal" aberration, when dna mapping never shows such anomalies, is just a cop out for not being able to explain legitimate evidence that contradicts your position.

    Just because you think you have had a "realization" does not mean that your conclusion is correct. There is outstanding evidence of E.T. presence here that is not the result of a psy-op, you are just too closed minded to see.
    I doubt it.

    "outstanding evidence" is a very subjective term and the starchild skull is a single object of biological origin that was found on this planet and is therefore likely to have originated on this planet, regardless of how "unplaceable" it is by DNA research.

    The Earth is 4.5 Billion years old. The modern species of man is thought to be around 50 to 200 thousand years old. So the entire age of the human race therefore amounts to about 4.5 thousanths of 1 percent of the age of the planet itself. I think there's more than a little room in there for a few lost and anomalous species of ancestor before we start concluding a solitary skull came from halfway across the universe.

    As I said earlier, evidence of interstellar travel does not come in the form of random flashing lights or a single mis-shapen skull with un-identifiable DNA and the fact that people are banding this around as "evidence" shows just how much of the propaganda they've swallowed. Put it this way. If there really were aliens on the planet who'd arrived by any other means than natural childbirth, you wouldn't need NASA to tell you about it and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

    Finally - just a last thought on your remark that I am "closed minded".

    I was brought up on a diet of Klingons, Romulans and federated star systems, just like most others of my generation. It doesn't require any great leap of imagination for me to identify with the idea of life elsewhere in the universe and that beings may be wandering around in spaceships hoping between galaxies.

    It turns out that given the last 50 years of such 'programming' by Hollywood, it requires an open mind to imagine that that scenario may not be the reality rather than that it is. The reason is that such casual tossing around of profound concepts of time and space and even philosophy has corrupted our ability to make value judgements about how reasonable one hypothesis is over another when doing appraisals of the unexplained.

    I actually had to condition a lot of the last 20 years of sci-fi and internet "testimony" out of myself in order to put things into some perspective to that end - otherwise you just end up being a repeater for everyone else's fantasy.

    It's not to say there isn't life "out there". It's just that I don't think it goes buzzing between star systems in bubble shaped versions of the 20th century motor car.
    Last edited by indigopete; 13th May 2016 at 11:59.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    which rests on an increasingly shaky notion that FTL travel is impossible. If that’s the only string to your bow you’ll need to find a new one. It was once the received wisdom that trains could not travel at more than 30 mph or whatever as all the air would be sucked out of the carriage. In fact I recall that it was also considered that science was ‘dead’ because we knew everything there was to know. There’s colossal ignorance for you. We’ve been a technological race in our current history that is for maybe a couple of hundred years and of course our technology has increased exponentially. We know that life can exist in the most inhospitable – to us – places but even planets in the Goldilocks zone exist in their billions it is estimated. Of course life exists out there and the chances are that some civilisations are much more advanced. Anything is possible. It is practically in the public domain how FTL travel works – e.g. Mark McLandish work compiled from eye witness accounts – I’m surprised Richard Branson hasn’t decided to build one. From what we already know it is at least possible that FTL travel will be possible in future – if not already from what Ben Rich had to say about Black Ops projects.

    Of course no-one can be expected to prove a negative i.e. that ET is not visiting us. But there is plenty of evidence – I would say overwhelming – that they are. It’s no good denying that something exists or that something happens because in theory it can’t. That’s not science. In that case either the theory is wrong or there is more to it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I can’t ‘prove’ the ET presence because the evidence is not in the public domain for political or darker reasons but there are plenty of people e.g. Cliff Stone who have had first-hand access. Of course it is always possible that people like Cliff Stone, Charles Hall, Bob Lazar are liars or that Stan Freidman, Richard Dolan, Micheal Shratt etc are wrong and you are right. But I don’t think so. Course you may think what you wish, but the ‘weight of evidence’ is all on one side: there is no evidence on the other side – just theory and not just that but an assumption that what we theorise currently is all that is possible.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by kemo (here)
    which rests on an increasingly shaky notion that FTL travel is impossible.
    Why is it "increasingly shaky" ? Because the internet rumourmill says so ?

    People need to make a distinction between scientific institutions and scientific discoveries. They are two very distinct things and while one may bear close resemblance to the nearest politician in terms of integrity at times, there are very few of the other which have not held true throughout the ages - at least in the context they were brought into existence.

    Newtons laws weren't invalidated by the discovery of quantum effects - they still apply at the scales of regular human consciousness and keep planes in the air. Similarly, the lightspeed limitation is likely to hold true for objects of finite mass - or at least it's the best of currently available thinking and can't be easily dismissed without a heavy dose of arrogance.

    Quote Posted by kemo (here)
    Cliff Stone who have had first-hand access. Of course it is always possible that people like Cliff Stone, Charles Hall, Bob Lazar are liars or that Stan Freidman, Richard Dolan, Micheal Shratt etc are wrong and you are right. But I don’t think so. Course you may think what you wish, but the ‘weight of evidence’ is all on one side: there is no evidence on the other side – just theory and not just that but an assumption that what we theorise currently is all that is possible.
    I’m aware of the testimonies of all of these people which I believe are made in good faith, so I’m not claiming they are liars or even working to deceive. However it’s interesting hearsay thats open to interpretation, nothing more and people need to acknowledge that IMO. The human race en-masse is not in regular physical contact with aliens and is not travelling to other star systems - even Richard Dolan isn’t and would probably not have a clue how to if you asked him, so lets put some things into perspective when talking about “overwhelming evidence”.

    Another thing to realise is this: Since the advent of the mass media and in particular web based media there is an ever growing blurring between metaphorical account and literal account. In particular, you’ll find that people who are comfortable with the interchangeability of our spiritual and physical existences use as literals what would otherwise be metaphorical terms to the rest of us.

    As a great illustration of that, check out a book called “Two Thirds: A History of Our Galaxy” by David Myers and David Percy. It is an epic tale - notionally fictional - that documents the spiritual ancestry of the human race with particular emphasis on its initial settlement on Mars and later evacuation to Earth following the great Martian cataclysm. That book is written in a style that genuinely does justice to the idea of interplanetary travel because, while there is continuity in the character’s existences, the implication is that they are incarnating in different parts of the universe over periods of millions of earth years. The physical realm is almost incidental to the story’s setting.

    Seen from that more dimensionally comprehensive perspective, it is most definitely possible to be as casual as people like Bob Dean are about aliens and star travel. As I mentioned previously, it also doesn’t demand any dismissal of Einstein’s observations.

    But if anyone is telling you that people are doing all that stuff while in a physical body, within a single physical lifetime, sitting in a metal craft with a little glass bubble on top - the chances are you’re probably being scammed.
    Last edited by indigopete; 13th May 2016 at 18:28.

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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    Although one has to keep an open mind about such mind blowing topics, I remain quite sceptical about the whole alien-UFO phenomenon.
    That's fine. But this thread wasn't really intended to debate the existence or possibility that other life exists. It was just to provide some interesting info. I think the comments that follow are more appropriate if they are aimed at discussion of the information from the original post. Turning the thread into a black and white debate about whether ETs exist kind of derails it off in another direction and maybe should've been saved for a dedicated post instead...

    Mod edit from Bill: yes, this is very much a separate topic. I copied this post, and moved all the others above it, to create this new thread. The original thread where these were posted was NASA Preparing The World For The Big Event.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 13th May 2016 at 22:20.

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  28. Link to Post #15
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Shouldn't this thread be more correctly named "do physical beings migrate between star systems" ?

    There was no debate as to "Do ET's exist".

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    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Listen to more JPF, you will find his speculation that the reason that that the deep state was formed was because the sheer numbers of craft observed during and after WW2 was simply unaccountable by purely earth bound sources, Nazi or otherwise. In his interviews, he has made numerous references to our cosmic cousins.

    http://www.thebyteshow.com/JosephPFarrell.html
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    Listen to more JPF, you will find his speculation that the reason that that the deep state was formed was because the sheer numbers of craft observed during and after WW2 was simply unaccountable by purely earth bound sources, Nazi or otherwise. In his interviews, he has made numerous references to our cosmic cousins.
    LoL ! The universe does not work like Hollywood says it works - even if JPF entertains it.

    Beings do not hop about galaxies in "craft". I realise that it's kind of logical to think that way since we recently (in astronomical timescales) invented the motor car and so assume that thats how intergalactic travel works, but it isn't.

    It's Hollywood programming and nothing else so please stop the humdrum.
    Last edited by indigopete; 14th May 2016 at 02:26.

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    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Everything is happening in real time, every human interaction. Sh!t matters, make no mistake.
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    Psychic interactions are a million times more common than physical ones, and experiencers often times cannot tell the difference.

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    It only takes one.

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    Read your "mythology".
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    Default Re: Do ETs exist?

    I'm saying, if one interaction in a million is real, then physical ETs have indeed visited this planet (or at least mars). Either way, they are watching this game. I got it a long time ago (20 years), that if they talk about it on the TV, don't believe it, but when ET shows up on your lawn, and shakes your hand, believe it.
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