David Icke Debunked (Full Movie)

[HeatherJJAnderson]

The only reason I am here today is because of David Icke, otherwise I would be still be researching and practicing new Osseointergration techniques.

[str8thinker]

Well, I'm amazed that my earlier post (#58 in this thread) provoked a further four pages of replies and comments by the time I returned, also saddened that TBP chose to unsubscribe along the way.

Nevertheless, this has brought considerable new material into the open, not the least from Bill Ryan (thanks again, Bill). As a result of reading your comments I thought I'd check back on the reliability of Ivan Fraser.

As a result of Bill Ryan's reply I now think it unlikely that Icke is a Mason, and that the allegations made about him by Alan Watt in my earlier post were unfounded. Moreover, Wikipedia's page on David Icke makes no mention of his father being one either. I did not think to read this before posting, but it is certainly worth a visit.

However, I do not resile from my earlier position that David Icke has been insincere, based on the following observations:

1) He has shown a propensity for plagiarism, incorporating material from the works of others without crediting them.

(Laura, moderator) Looking at Icke's bibliography, I'm not impressed. He really hasn't done any work of his own.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0

Well, the first conspiracy book I read was They Cast No Shadows, by Desborough. Pretty much everything in that book is duplicated in The Biggest Secret,by Icke. Desborough doesn't really seem to believe in the reptilian thing. His stuff is more believable, but not as well sourced. He says he relies on 30+ years experience.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread54375

It was Brian Desborough, a scientist and researcher who had worked for several aerospace companies, who was also looking at the draft copy of the Biggest Secret at the same time as myself; i.e. before David met Arizona Wilder. Therefore the fact that Brian Desborough may be responsible for fundamentally leading the direction of David’s research, if not planting much of the basis of the book in David’s mind, is obvious. (Ivan Fraser, http://www.coffinman.co.uk/david_icke.htm)

David's had some good ideas in his time, I agree. But he remains essentially a guy who collates the material of others, and therefore he's only as good as his sources. So I read the sources and make up my own mind. Icke therefore, is obsolete for me, except as a factor of focus for so many people interested in this material.

He is certainly dynamic and a great presenter. He gets people hooked. But he's still a fallible guy with biases and opinions, and prone to error just as we all are.

It's easier to read Icke's latest book than the numerous books on numerous subjects that comprise the bibliography. And it's up to the reader to decide whether or not they believe. I personally take his ideas with a pinch of salt, and if he makes me interested, I will then go and find out from the material that made him interested, just why. But usually, when he comes up with something original, I come away disappointed thinking 'how did he conclude what he did from this source material?' When he reports facts and figures, I usually find they are just repeated directly from the source material, sometimes in a way that is close to plagiarism.

...Why go to the monkey when you can go to the organ grinder for the information?
Ivan Fraser
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59474

2) He pretends to speak with authority on subjects he knows little about, something L. Ron Hubbard perfected. Worse, I have not known him to admit he was wrong or apologize for modifying his views.

Why then does he preach that we should be open-minded, listen to each other - and worst of all why is he consistently described as a scholar when he is clearly a rank amateur at various topics he chooses to include in his work?

He is locked in a fantastical belief system. But he is very good at making it sound reasonable. But that's more to do with his style and the ommission of essential data, which makes it impossible for the reader to make an informed choice. They are left with either believing him or not. Unless, that is, they take a few years out and study the material that Icke spends next to no time studying (one or 2 books per topic is NOT research - it is just finding the minimum that satisfies what he already believes).

You cannot create a book every year or two of 500 plus pages on the sheer scope he tries to. You haven't the time to verse yourself in the necessesary data and check out all the references. But you can collate 20 or so books on diverse subjects, not bother checking anything and write them up in your own words, whilst adding your own speculations as a common thread.

...

He also needs to confess that he's an utter amateur in quantum physics and that scientists would NOT support his claims that he makes in his latest book about the nature of reality and consciousness in relation to quantum physics.

The very idea - now so popular and quoted by so many who simply have no knowledge outside of Icke, works of Intel propagandists and New Age channellers - that an ancient ET race settled, created a secret order of reptilian shapeshifting kings and queens, is utterly unsupported by anything other than speculation and invention, and misreading of source information.

Secondly, the idea that this possibility is supported by modern science is also just plain wrong. He has taken early speculation by a few quantum theorists and spun it into 'proof' as though such observations equal scientific proof. (Ivan Fraser)
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage196120/pg1

2) He has banned many who have criticized him on his forum, not just Ivan Fraser.

However I am devastated at what is happening in this forum, it has now become unacceptable to criticize anything David Icke says, and people are having their threads deleted just for having the audacity to speak a word against him.
He is not a perfect man, nobody is, and I feel that if we want freedom of speech ourselves, that we should allow others to say how they feel even if it is in direct opposition to our thoughts and feelings.
An Interesting Post From The David Icke Forum...Now Deleted

3) Questions about his disposal of funds have not been answered satisfactorily, to put it mildly.

I have had several threads shut down myself regarding the "DAVID ICKE LEGAL DEFENSE FUND" which despite several communications with forum moderators, I am still highly suspect of. We were told we would hear the full story one day, and so far have been told nothing.
I personally donated over £100 to this cause, and I feel that I, as well as everybody else who donated to the fund, deserve a full explanation of what happened.

More details here.

4) There seem to be deliberate omissions in his material which raise the possibility that he is in fact a disinfo agent.

Laura wrote: David Icke has done more damage to the possibility of any real scientific exploration of the subject of UFOs and aliens being undertaken than any other single living human being. If he can't see that, then he is stupid (not ignorant, certainly). And because I don't think he is stupid, I think he is also aware of what he has done PR wise. Thus, he must be a CONSCIOUS agent of COINTELPRO.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0

As for shapeshifting reptilians, I've listened to the plausible but secondhand accounts in Bill's audio tape more than once. This is probably the biggest stumbling-block for most people in accepting David Icke's theories. As a younger Alex Jones expressed it indelicately some years ago, Icke's shapeshifting reptilians stand out from his other revelations "like a turd in a punch bowl".

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hjG-ZA9L-L0

However, that did not deter David from later accepting Alex's invitation to appear on his show, not once but twice. Bill Ryan has now propped these tales with one of his own, which is most interesting. Personally, I have no difficulty in getting my mind around extradimensional shape-shifting reptiles emerging from wardrobes just as in C.S.Lewis's Narnia chronicles. In fact, they add a certain frisson to the humdrum truthseeking scene. I will certainly be looking at our PM Julia Gillard in a new light.

Bear in mind, though, that neither Philip Schneider nor "Colonel X" in Anthony Sanchez's UFO Highway mention the presence of reptilians at Dulce, as opposed to tall greys, which seems strange.

Mutwa elsewhere, rather contradictorily, states elsewhere that ‘greys’ are actually reptilians with an artificial ‘skin’. This contradiction is not challenged by Icke. (Ivan Fraser)

Furthermore, three out of the five reptilian anecdotes on Bill's tape came from Russell Pine (aka Jordan Maxwell), not a scrupulously honest source of information as we all know. (His last story about running away did not actually mention reptilians). That leaves two from David Icke, the Burnham Beeches story and the one of the woman and her reptilian lover, right out of Vigelands Park:

Well, maybe it's time for colluding abductee analysts like Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs to retire from the truth scene to allow a new generation of reptile/repton/reptoid hunters to gather better evidence than simply secondhand anecdotes. Can PA members relate any first hand ones?

After reading several more quotes from Ivan Fraser (worth reading in full - see links above), his integrity in my view has increased, rather than diminished. Unfortunately, he has retired from the scene due to ill health and closed his website:

After several years of illness and other changes in personal circumstances, I have decided to end the Truth Campaign both as a magazine and website. My illness allowed me plenty of time to re-evaluate my life and my priorities and it is now time to put my energies into other things. I am now almost fully recovered and, primarily, my focus is to return to work and concentrate on my home life.
http://www.ivanfraser.com/

Lastly:

Like David Icke and Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell claims to have been guided by other dimensional spirits to do the things he is doing. They all claim to have had specific paranormal experiences dealing with these entities early on that led them to the "truth". Maybe that's why he is such a lover of occult practice and rituals.. that's funny though, because I know of a group that's trying to kill most of the world's population that loves that stuff too.

I find it interesting that they have zero opposition, and a guy like Bill Cooper was killed and while people like Fritz Springmeier are locked away for life while the people who say the exact opposite are paraded around on Coast to Coast, the Discovery Channel, the History Channel, the Scifi network, Rense, Project Camelot and the rest.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...76&topic=12910

[modwiz]

Being a garden variety Blue Lodge 3rd degree mason means you are usually a benevolent presence in your community and have dinners and fundraisers. What goes on in the upper echelons, who knows.

The masons I know would probably be like newbies (or special education) on this site. My realtor is one, my last 2 lawyers and someone at the dump. Good guys.

Esotericists maybe, if the spirits you are talking about come in a bottle.

[majapahit]

"Chris White's: David Icke Debunked (Full Movie)", debunked

ok, I've watched/listened to the 2.5 hours of rant
I'll fill you in with an abbreviated version (indeed, oops)

key words:
Alice Bailey - Blavatsky Theosophy Ideologist & could be considered luciferian, and major source of all of Icke's Utopia
Maurice Strong - UN asset and luciferian, major Illuminati, and - oops - also a Bailey Theosophist, like all (?) illuminati
Atlantis / Lumeria - cannot be proven scientifically, in core of Icke's belief system, and is freemasonry and theosophist
Thule society - another Helena Petrovna Blavatsky / Bailey common ideology, and - of course - suspect
Hitler - oops, another Bailey adapt, who needs enemies
Channeling, that David does, specifically spiritual entities, f.i. 'magnu' and many more - suspect, as been warned by many, you will be deceived
Utopia - an ideal government of the earth, cornerstone of Bailey / Freemasons / Icke (?), and of course the New World Order
a New Race, Led by Philosopher Kings - as in Utopia, freemasonry, again Bailey, also Icke (by deduction) .. dangerous
Ayahuasca drug experience by Icke - again, you open yourself up to 'misleading demons' like a Ouija board, well documented hazard
Illuminati 'spirits' and Icke's 'New Age' sprits could be the same - that wouldn't be good, would it now
Desborough - expert in deprogramming trauma based MKUltra and Illuminati Agenda, might have 'placed' Arizona Wilder (?)
Ivan Fraser - Icke's help and later 'debunker', Icke 'cheats' like a Baba
Arizona Wilder - MKUltra and 'corroborating' source for 'reptilian shape shifting'
Zeitgeist's 'Abstract Jesus' - as an amalgam of previous and many gods, Jesus 'didn't really live' says the older Icke, bad boy

and there is much much (much) more in this 2.5 hour monologue,
which indeed, as a previous poster mentioned, delivers a - seemingly - monumental peace of work, a deconstruction & burning down to the very ashes of - almost - the whole core belief system of dearest David.

There's a little problem though .. oopsie

Chris White himself is a 'Jesus Boy' (like in 'fundamental').
And hides this for 2 hours and 29 minutes,
with rather overwhelming pseudo academic discourse
very clever indeed, and with major talent
unless, of course, one encounters someone like me
the better educated and versed in such rethorica (and a lot older, which is key )

White finally quotes the Bible, to impress on his public, the (his) only true path to truth and evolution ..
Mathew 11:20:
"Take my yoke upon you .. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light",

which is, of course, in it's very substance, word for word as it were, & to duplicate White's own way of 'deconstruction' (aha) Not True in its own very substance.

Jesus burden is Hard,
of course.
Jesus is superman.
A servant to serve (.. or else, you bloody heathen).

And White finally wants us to pray for Icke's somewhat good intending soul

.. yeah right, mt

[GK76]

This video has touched me in ways no other video has before... Never before have I suffered through over two hours of dismal whiny dross specially packaged as a video. Honestly, if I ever want a self induced coma I'll know where to go.

It takes a 'special' kind of person to do Chris White's job. The strangest part is, this has been published without any attempt of putting the questions to David to defend himself... Like I said it takes a 'special' kind of person.

To take some points and disprove them, or add a new way of looking at it does not mean the person is a liar and was out to spread disinfo. Yet somehow the very title is "David Icke Debunked", does this mean: to disprove one thing in his work is to discredit everything in his life? After all it is David the human being who has apparently been "debunked", not his work. Or is this title a blatant slur on his character? (as intended no doubt)

I've seen David's work, not once has he given 100% guarantee on his information, as always the life's work of any individual would no doubt evolve over time as thinking progresses and new information comes to hand - he provides the information to intelligent people to discern, he doesn't force information on people.

Sadly for Mr White: his 'total-war' defamatory efforts have come to naught (in/on) my opinion. As described by someone earlier - David's work, bravely outing the paedophile rings and general abuse of the people's God given rights, this, to me speaks volumes about his character. The only person who's colours have been fully shown here is clear to me. And I want my 2 hours of life back scumbag... I'm off for a shower, this video makes me feel unclean.

Yes, I know I could throw this post through the same thought processes, but in defending my cause is noble.

[John White]

As far as I know, Chris is not a close relative

Now then, our Dave... "plagiarism".... has he ever claimed originality? How can you plagiarize when there is a big list of sources in every book? He's a "journalist" not a genius.... channelling... yep, first book was all channelling.... now he says channelling is dodgy at best.... and new age religion/old age religion = "same bollocks"... so after 1994 Icke went experiential. Ivan Fraser.... nice man, I've spoken to him. He retracted his comments about Icke as he recognised his own ego at work in them... they still circulate the net all the time though.... blavatsky stuff.... knowledge is neutral... I don't consider it a major influence on Icke's stuff, sooner or later people have to realise the elite have got their fingerprints on everything, including what can help us. The conspiracy world reaction to The Venus Project (the potential of properly applied science) is another example of that... and so on

Bottom line: teachers are THREATS... anyone shaking someone's world about is a threat to that world.... some people react against it. Some people go with the teacher for a while and then see things differently.... they then react against the teacher because they see them as "holding them back". And some people move on but appreciate the teacher for what they have given... because they truly got the lesson

But the better the Teacher, the more stuff they get thrown at them.... Icke's doing alright. He's bloody minded, stubborn, takes frequent leaps into territory only maniacs would dare to tread, and sometimes lets his anger and frustration at certain things (coming from well defined ethical disgust) come on too strong for some

As he might say "Oh well darlin that's life"

And despite all that he keeps on smiling

One of the heros

[joamarks]

ah i like something to ad to this as well,

to what is right or wrong in this context.....

internet as a free anarchistic flow of true usefull information for the common people has died a few years ago.

it has died under servere weight of its own fastness of true and untrue material.

and now its only for the small group of people who are very well informed in the old fashioned way to make up what is relevant.

the rest of the people is at the mercy of the commerce powers which has completely taken over already. just like radio, tv en the movie business.

[John White]

I'd agree with your thoughts in one way joamarks... when I started out on my path the problem was information starvation.... 25 years later, its information overload... in some ways that lean diet helped me to find the space to develop rigorous truth-seeking technique... now there is so much to look at even focusing on one thing leads in a hundred different ways

We are adaptable creatures though, and I feel that focusing on centring oneself is emerging as a response to the info load... as for what is true... well that gets better as soon as we relax and discover that truth is a perception in the now, not an absolute in eternity.... mostly

[joamarks]

Posted by John White (here)
. in some ways that lean diet helped me to find the space to develop rigorous truth-seeking technique... now there is so much to look at even focusing on one thing leads in a hundred different ways

your right. and that's the problem with this chris which made the debunk videos. the only thing he proves with his films, is that information interpreting via internet, is not for armatures

because all his counter arguments he finds on internet as well..... (or he uses book quotes but takes them also out of context. like his subjets)

[John White]

Posted by joamarks (here)


your right. and that's the problem with this chris which made the debunk videos. the only thing he proves with his films, is that information interpreting via internet, is not for armatures

because all his counter arguments he finds on internet as well..... (or he uses book quotes but takes them also out of context. like his subjets)

Yep same old hitting out at the mirror... sees sloppy bits in Icke and Tsarion etc and hits out at them to avoid dealing with his own

[str8thinker]

(John White) Ivan Fraser.... nice man, I've spoken to him. He retracted his comments about Icke as he recognised his own ego at work in them

I find that quite surprising; however, you say you've spoken to him. Do you know whether he retracted his comments in print anywhere?

I say that I find it quite surprising because whenever I read one of Icke's books or sit through one of his long-winded videos, I find myself thinking exactly what Ivan Fraser expressed in my earlier posts.

[John White]

I find that quite surprising; however, you say you've spoken to him. Do you know whether he retracted his comments in print anywhere?

I say that I find it quite surprising because whenever I read one of Icke's books or sit through one of his long-winded videos, I find myself thinking exactly what Ivan Fraser expressed in my earlier posts.

He posted his retraction on the old David Icke forum about 2005/06... long gone now as far as I know, the current forum started 2007. It was partly a response to an internet character calling himself "King of the Mountain" conducting a full on hate campaign on that forum against Icke and using Ivan's words to do so... Ivan then got savagely attacked himself as a result, but I thought it showed his courage and character. He really is a lovely man. I do still have Ivan's email which I would be happy to pm to you if you would like to talk to him about it yourself. Let me know

PS If you do, show him this post I'm sure he will remember me

[the_flyingboy]

sorry guys i haven't met David Icke but if Bill trusts him and suppports him so do I !!!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by str8thinker (here)
Well, I'm amazed that my earlier post (#58 in this thread) provoked a further four pages of replies and comments by the time I returned, also saddened that TBP chose to unsubscribe along the way.

Nevertheless, this has brought considerable new material into the open, not the least from Bill Ryan (thanks again, Bill). As a result of reading your comments I thought I'd check back on the reliability of Ivan Fraser.

As a result of Bill Ryan's reply I now think it unlikely that Icke is a Mason, and that the allegations made about him by Alan Watt in my earlier post were unfounded. Moreover, Wikipedia's page on David Icke makes no mention of his father being one either. I did not think to read this before posting, but it is certainly worth a visit.

However, I do not resile from my earlier position that David Icke has been insincere, based on the following observations:

1) He has shown a propensity for plagiarism, incorporating material from the works of others without crediting them.

(Laura, moderator) Looking at Icke's bibliography, I'm not impressed. He really hasn't done any work of his own.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0

[snip...]

Dear Friend -

You know I have a great respect for your contributions, and am delighted you're part of this community.

But you're citing criticisms of David Icke from notorious wizard-hunter (never a witch-hunter!) Laura Knight-Jadzyck??

She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

So you aren't the messiah, you're just a very naughty boy then?

[str8thinker]

(Bill Ryan)
You know I have a great respect for your contributions, and am delighted you're part of this community.

But you're citing criticisms of David Icke from notorious wizard-hunter (never a witch-hunter!) Laura Knight-Jadzyck??

She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

Well, maybe that wasn't the best person to quote from. But if you recall my earlier post, Ivan Fraser (and others) also said David Icke comes close to plagiarism. His latest effort, Human Race Get Off Your Knees, like his previous ones, aren't really works of great scholarship. There is a skimpy bibliography at the end, but what makes me uneasy on reading him is his habit of passing off assertions, particularly the assertions of others, as fact. Of course, he's not the only one, particularly in this field. His arguments are emotional and persuasive, in fact he appears to believe most of what he says, which would be fine if he didn't keep changing his plot.

He now seems to be becoming aware of these inconsistencies and in his latest book is going through a phase of damage control, reconciling the various views he has expressed over the years and at the same time incorporating any fresh theories that come his way which agree with his basic principles.

Maybe the best way I can sum this up is that David Icke considers himself to be sincere when he speaks. (Jordan Maxwell and many others do this too.) It's important to avoid believing them implicitly when they do so.

I feel I've laboured the point enough. I agree David has a lot to offer us, but I will continue to hold him and his ideas at arm's length, not because of any difficulty in accepting his reptilian hypothesis, but because of my innate inability to take huge leaps of faith.

[noprophet]

I haven't looked through much David Icke with he exception of a few videos but some of the discussion reminds me of the late 1800s and everyone calling a lot of the theosophical / spiritual material plagiarism.

The heavy hitters back then would be quick to point out that every concept uttered has in fact been uttered many, many times over and over throughout history. Plagiarism is only labeled when they're uttered within the same time frame.

People need to let go of the severe dependence on "intellectual property". We've all stood on the shoulders of giants. Even the giants.

Open-Source everything for a better world.

[sygh]

Dearest Bill, etal,

The Lord, through Jesus Christ is my savoir; none shall pass. And Bill, I am amazed. Put on your armor.

[hood2011]

I have just started reading David Ickes book 'Human Race Get Off Your Knees' and am still to watch this video in full. I think im going to finish the book first though.

[Mister_m]

I think this picture below demonstrates why conventional religious logic always fails in a proper reasoned debate.

Plus its far too funny to not post. If you are offended, ask yourself why, then accept my apology.