Is Teal Swan a hoaxer?

[AutumnW]

Posted by jan (here)
I certainly get a genuine feeling from her and think shes doing a lot of good by speaking out and teaching what she knows. But of course it will meet opposition and envy and whatnot, but i think she is well prepared for dealing with all that. In things like this i find it best to just trust what resonates with our hearts, not over-analyze.

She may be well prepared for criticism by being very good at deflecting blame and manipulation. If she, herself, is framing basic curiosity about whether or not she has made up a lot about her past, as being born of envy, it could be part of a pattern of deflecting responsibility for her lies. White lies, no problem. Humongous lies-- problem -- and a big red flag in glowing neon.

[AutumnW]

Posted by WhiteLove (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I started a thread about T. Swan in the known hoax category after doing a couple of days worth of research on her.

One of the responders to that thread suggested as she isn't a known hoaxer, the question should not be in that category. So I am placing it here and asking again, is she legit?

From what I have read about her own rendition of her past, which appears to be provably false, I feel there is something 'off' about her. Further to that, I think anyone who outs a self styled guru who has left what appears to be a trail of human wreckage, in their wake, is performing a public service.

I will gladly provide links when I am using my lap top.

My view is that she has done some deep studies on her own and that she presents these findings as truths. From her perspective some of these ideas might have some degree of truth, but it is of course very difficult to say how true they are in a greater perspective. What one can say is that as a philosopher she is at a pretty advanced level because of the amount and complexity involved in all of the topics she has discussed in her YouTube videos, these videos are also expressed quite clearly and elegantly. So there is in that way definitely a big thinker behind it. At the same time, that complexity is also more tricky "to get right", therefore yes probably some of it is not true or not entirely true...

The problem is of course when other thinkers end up with different conclusions. For instance "the law of attraction" I find to be a bit in conflict with "the law of love" and among the two I find from own personal experience that "the law of love" is at a more profound level of truth. If that is the case, that does not mean her focus on "the law of attraction" is false, but it highlights that as thinkers we all have much to learn and that we are incomplete relative to the amount of intelligence we are observing, there always seems to be pieces that can be added that slightly change and give new meanings and level of truths to things.

"The law of love" I have pretty recently started looking more closely into. At this precise moment in time I am looking at a theory that I am forming in which one's life consists of a number of parallel threads, each thread having a great love plan. When we are using our free will, thread switches occur. But no matter what the thread switches are, the common theme/manifestations seem to be someone or something that I am loving unconditionally. Based on this experience/observation and when I add to this everything else I've experienced/observed, I have moved my focus to "the law of love" as a concept I want to research and discover more...

"Unconditional love", "free will" and "absolute truth" are in my world important puzzle pieces I am playing with when trying to describe existence. If you for instance at a very deep level experience "unconditional love" and you are not aware of that truth, God is. There is this great awareness present in creation that orchestrates extremely intelligently based in extreme level of truth, is my current understanding. And the thread switches are based in the union, not based in your own free will/choices only because who/what you love unconditionally can use free will to accept or reject that love. The thread switches are instant it appears and I am now looking into whether prayers are thread switches, prayers express free will.

My take on this, for what it is worth, is people get very cognitively tangled up, when it comes to the concept of free will.'Freedom', as a concept is fraught with paradox, and that is from a purely philosophical perspective.

When it comes to trying to exercise our free will, in the physical realm, we are up against opposing forces that we must learn to negotiate and compromise with. That is likely the purpose of our souls being born into physical bodies, that require shelter and nourishment.

A simple understanding of our own difficulties in this arena, applied to others, encourages a loving, forgiving and compassionate attitude. It isn't particularly complicated. What is missing for many, is they form theories about ultimate reality and how it might work, particularly with regards freedom, and then try to apply those theories, (worked out from a perspective of detachment, quite often) into their mundane realm.

Although the bedrock of our existence could easily be unconditional love, a misunderstanding or incomplete understanding of the 'freedom' concept can provide an easy explanation for withdrawing love from others. In that way, the bedrock of love, always seeking to leach into our lives from our foundations, is cut off, paved over. Love must trump all. And when this is clearly understood, real freedom follows.

[giovonni]

Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

[AutumnW]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
Thanks, WhiteLove, for sharing your insights. Guess I'm just trying to connect all the dots of the things I have learned about & also experienced in my lifetime! I think you are right about the "master plan". Even though I am in a very difficult situation, I keep getting the feeling that "all is well" & I just have to live through whatever is coming next.

I am sorry you are having a difficult time. I hope you don't mind me asking -- are you struggling alone? Do you have loving friends helping you, giving you strength?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by giovonni (here)
Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

No, I am impartial, in that regard. My main focus is studying emerging fascist patterns in modern spiritual belief.

[giovonni]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
Thanks, WhiteLove, for sharing your insights. Guess I'm just trying to connect all the dots of the things I have learned about & also experienced in my lifetime! I think you are right about the "master plan". Even though I am in a very difficult situation, I keep getting the feeling that "all is well" & I just have to live through whatever is coming next.

I am sorry you are having a difficult time. I hope you don't mind me asking -- are you struggling alone? Do you have loving friends helping you, giving you strength?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by giovonni (here)
Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

No, I am impartial, in that regard. My main focus is studying emerging fascist patterns in modern spiritual belief.

With due respect ...

"Impartial" is kind of being evasive to a general yes or no question/answer -
And to use your selected OP descriptive of Teal - Something appears 'off' with your above response ?

Which prompts me to ask who or what - lead you to focus this thread inquiry particularly and solely on Teal ?

Also while alluding to your mentioned study - I would like to hear more in regards to your premise of there being possible fascist patterns in the modern spiritual community ... Perhaps you could expand more on this ?

[AutumnW]

Giovanni, No, I am impartial means I have no axe to grind with her based on any past relationship.
And as far as studying emerging patterns of fascism in modern spiritual belief -- what would you like me to expand on? Why I became interested in that subject?

A cursory glance at nearly all of my posts on this thread should provide an explanation. I think any belief structure, even loosely constructed ones, can feed fascist sentiment. We can easily see it in the fundamentalist Christian community. But what some people fail to understand, is purveyors of light , love and personal empowerment, actually premised on a kind of spiritual libertarianism, are equally at risk at becoming too focused on:

Personal freedom -- taken to extremes this becomes a new 'ism' and provides a handy excuse to ignore the specific suffering of others. If people believe they choose their own destiny, or create their own reality and take this to extremes, they apply that understanding to people who are labouring under stresses they didn't create...at all. The idea that we are the sole authors of our destiny, is particularly dangerous, because it is partially true. But in order to assess how much power over their lives other people can exercise, we have to engage in analysis of the specifics of their situation. Approaching others through generalizations is at best ineffective and at worst, cruel.

Focus on power -- philosophies that maintain the 'create your own reality' and take it to extremes are focused on power and can become asocial and manipulative.

I could go on, but that's a start.

I come to this forum, not to study or to 'spread the word' but because I find the forum members to be open and intelligent and because I appreciate the information I gathered here, in the past, about some very unsavoury characters who have gained huge followings. There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing.

[AutumnW]

Posted by 11one (here)

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....

i think you can experience the illusion of rejecting that which you already are


and i think she is who she says she is

Just curious, I am confused by this response. What does it mean?

[giovonni]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Giovanni, No, I am impartial means I have no axe to grind with her based on any past relationship.
And as far as studying emerging patterns of fascism in modern spiritual belief -- what would you like me to expand on? Why I became interested in that subject?

A cursory glance at nearly all of my posts on this thread should provide an explanation. I think any belief structure, even loosely constructed ones, can feed fascist sentiment. We can easily see it in the fundamentalist Christian community. But what some people fail to understand, is purveyors of light , love and personal empowerment, actually premised on a kind of spiritual libertarianism, are equally at risk at becoming too focused on:

Personal freedom -- taken to extremes this becomes a new 'ism' and provides a handy excuse to ignore the specific suffering of others. If people believe they choose their own destiny, or create their own reality and take this to extremes, they apply that understanding to people who are labouring under stresses they didn't create...at all. The idea that we are the sole authors of our destiny, is particularly dangerous, because it is partially true. But in order to assess how much power over their lives other people can exercise, we have to engage in analysis of the specifics of their situation. Approaching others through generalizations is at best ineffective and at worst, cruel.

Focus on power -- philosophies that maintain the 'create your own reality' and take it to extremes are focused on power and can become asocial and manipulative.

I could go on, but that's a start.

I come to this forum, not to study or to 'spread the word' but because I find the forum members to be open and intelligent and because I appreciate the information I gathered here, in the past, about some very unsavoury characters who have gained huge followings. There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing.

hmm ...

I still don't get what all this has to do with Teal, and any negatives deriving from her teachings ?

But on a friendly note to your closing sentence ...

"There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing."

Yes Indeedy ...

[AutumnW]

Giovanni, one of the ideas that Teal Swan promotes is that everyone we are interacting with is simply mirroring us. Where power balances are equal, this has some truth to it. Also, when interactions become emotionally charged, within an arena of equal power, this has some truth to it.

The danger of this teaching is that outside of interactions between equals, this is not as likely. If someone has power over me either economically,,politically, socially, or is an abusive parent, this doesn't hold true.

It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.

[giovonni]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Giovanni, one of the ideas that Teal Swan promotes is that everyone we are interacting with is simply mirroring us. Where power balances are equal, this has some truth to it. Also, when interactions become emotionally charged, within an arena of equal power, this has some truth to it.

Yes i agree for the most part ... Though not necessary in all personal interactions.

The danger of this teaching is that outside of interactions between equals, this is not as likely. If someone has power over me either economically,,politically, socially, or is an abusive parent, this doesn't hold true.

I note your concerns with these kinds of human social conditional/situations, but it is all part of the systematic reality we are inherently born into. And unfortunately it is something one has to learn to navigate through.

It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.

I am sorry I don't agree with the premise, and one could point to many other current human conditioning's that already lead to such narcissistic social behaviors ...

While it is no secret that Teal draws her teachings from a broad selection of spiritual wisdom (not necessarily her own) ... She obviously has a talented gift of conveying informational lessons almost effortlessly ... Some which I resonate with and some I don't... But that does not denote from others finding insightful help at a particular time and situation in their lives.

So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree in regards to Ms Teal.

Blessings Gio

[11one]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by 11one (here)

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....

i think you can experience the illusion of rejecting that which you already are


and i think she is who she says she is

Just curious, I am confused by this response. What does it mean?

that lady asked if its possible to reject unconditional love. i responded that it was possible to have the experience of rejecting that which you already are, which is unconditional love

and then i added that i believe teal swan is exactly who she says she is

[11one]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
My only question is, if a person's daily life does not line up with what they are teaching, should I believe them? If it really doesn't "work" for them, why should it work for me?

i think we should separate the message from the messenger as much as possible. your heart knows the truth instinctively, it could come from a guru or a death row inmate. whatever inspires you should be what you explore, and through that exploration youll know for sure what resonates with you and what doesnt

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by 11one (here)
I think instead of going into her character or past to see if she's a fraud you should go into what she's teaching to see if there's flaws. If there's not, the other things are irrelevant are they not?

If she is abusing others through manipulative tactics afforded her by using some of her own teachings, while in the power position with others, those specific teachings have to be held up to scrutiny.

oh i dont know about all that. if you have some examples though i would love to hear it

[Jhonie]

For me it is the sound, just doesn't resonate with me.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.

Posted by giovonni (here)
[B]I am sorry I don't agree with the premise, and one could point to many other current human conditioning's that already lead to such narcissistic social behaviors ...

Just to dip in briefly, I believe Autumn is right when he points out "When carried to extremes". Anything "to extremes" is damaging. But the issue he's actually raising here is an interesting and important one. I've talked about it myself, and I believe it's the same thing. It's something I've seen coming to the forefront of 'New Age' philosophies, particularly with some Buddhist constructs, and they 'have the potential' to be quite damaging in the wrong hands (minds). In words other than above, it basically boils down to this:

The idea that we are powerful, sovereign beings is most important, and it is correct. But the danger arises when the ego assimilates this, and fixates on it - it may eventually come to think that its own paradigm IS the sovereign (and only) one that matters. What can happen is that such individuals get tangled up in a narcissistic complex, where other people, the world itself, and all the constructed realities of everyone else's reality, become false (or less important than their own). This breeds a massive distortion of greater reality, their world view and their own humanity, and then all sorts of bad things can happen.

[AutumnW]

Thanks Star Mariner,

And yes, it is the "carried to extremes," aspect that is the problem. Carried to extremes, the message of Christ, somehow ended up in a bloody Crusades, witch hunts and the Inquisition. I've found little, so far, in modern spiritual belief that would lead to anything that dire. If anything, modern spirituality, a reworking of Eastern beliefs, is very hands off, non-interfering, and sorry to say, kind of self absorbed. That makes it less prone to crazy forms of evangelizing.

But therein lies another danger. Modern society already discourages real forms of personal attachment outside of primary marriage and parent sibling relationships. The emphasis on 'detachment' is fitting, in some societies, but isn't a good fit, in our own society. We have a lot of personal living space, compared. We lead atomized lives, often in semi seclusion.

Loneliness is endemic and the loneliness of others is best addressed by stepping outside of ourselves and redirecting focus towards them and away from ourselves -- in other words, being loving and helpful.

Teal Swan claims that there is nothing either right or wrong with suicide, that, if you don't like your life, killing yourself is simply hitting the 'cosmic reset' button. This is an offhand and profoundly narcissistic way of approaching others pain, as a counsellor. Outside of essential euthanasia situations, there is no merit in addressing run away forms of depression, in this way...particularly if the root genesis is early trauma, lonliness and feeling unloved.

Like the velveteen rabbit, those who feel barely alive emotionally, or in a state of profound deflation and anguish should be nurtured back to life. I can think of no other way to state any better what I feel so deeply.

[GloriousPoetry]

Teal Swan has some insight about various topics however I don't really resonate with her teachings for two prime reasons.
1. She doesn't believe in the soul splitting when it comes into this world and therefore does not believe in twin flames. I have experienced an extension of my soul in another human body and so I know it is possible for some us to have our soul experience this. It's one of the most profound experiences you can experience. I'm still learning what this experience means to me in this world.
2. She believes in kundalini energy and the Chakra system which I have also experienced and have arrived at the conclusion that they are not conducive to my soul's natural expression . I have decided to trascend them and declare myself a free and sovereign soul from all false systems imposed on my soul in this world and beyond.

[sheme]

I like and respect her wisdom -I would listen to her insights and intuitively know there is truth there. Some of us are not ready for her wisdom or maybe have grown beyond her take on things. All I need to know is that she means no harm only good.