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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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    Avalon Member kirolak's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Although I spent the better part of my life in the UK, I don't understand any politics - it's all a load of nonsense, in my view - the Big Enders vs the Little Enders (cf Gullivers' Travels).

    On the one hand we seem to have a patriotic/ nationalistic, isolationist group who want to be "free" of the EU, (although many of these same people also maintain "we are all one" & "all is Love") & then on the other hand, we have the EU supporters, who want a united Europe?

    I can only say, along with Manuel of Fawlty Towers, "I don't know, soy de Barcelona. . . !"(actually Valladolid, but who cares?

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    David Cameron has resigned as a Remainer unable to implement a Leave agenda. Yesterday I suggested that Boris Johnson might not last long doing that either, even though he headed the Leave campaign. This Guardian article indicates how this might unfold. Basically, Johnson sowed a wind and reaped a whirlwind. The disagreement with Cameron was merely a ploy to have all bases covered that backfired, leading to a killer ‘pyrrhic victory’.

    In that case, Johnson is no more the man for the job than Cameron; which makes sense: how is an elitist ever going to implement the popular decision? This is why I suggested Corbyn. Corbyn’s stance is diametrically opposed: he too was ostensibly on the wrong side of the argument, but his quiet campaign was likely a sincere reflection of genuine indecision as to the better way to achieve EU reform: from within or without. This is the issue that has not been resolved: all that has happened is that a fork in the road has been passed, for better or worse. (Actually, it is like we are taking both paths: notice how the centripetal force of union is balanced by the centrifugal force of increasing nationalism; Scotland wants both independence and the EU [correction: Europe], and so probably do Catalonia, Corsica, Brittany, Ireland, Wales, northern England etc. etc.)

    So Jeremy Corbyn can easily implement Brexit simply by applying the grassroots decision of his base. I don’t have a ready antonym for a pyrrhic victory, but it seems to me that Corbyn has won this debate with minimum effort. How this works is rather counter-intuitive, but here goes. It is indisputable that power has been transferred from e.g. Westminster to Brussels – whether to elected officials or to Eurocrats (European bureaucrats) is beside the point. From the standpoint of the nation, it means loss of sovereignty (again not the issue here). The issue here is that from the standpoint of the national politician, it means loss of power. Who would want to go through the motions of legislating in London only to be overridden by Brussels all the time? This means that Brexit ought to be the default position for any MP. After all, when a vote is taken on MPs getting a pay rise, the Ayes have it every time; they know how to look after themselves. Hence a prime minister campaigning to Remain with the energy that Cameron put into it was either shooting himself in the foot or hypocritically pretending to. He was pretending to be happy at being something of a lame duck. So he had to have a Johnson figure taking the intuitively correct line.

    Corbyn’s nuanced stance on the other hand does something rather different. He doubtless thinks remaining in the EU is the preferable way, but defers to the electorate to make the choice they are being asked to make. This is like saying Yes, MPs do need extra pay, if only because hyperrich immigrants have made central London pretty unaffordable, but MPs are not the best people to make that award. Accepting Brexit without having openly campaigned in favour is like accepting a power/pay rise from the source of that power/pay, the sovereign/taxpaying people.

    Summarizing, you have Conservatives on the losing side whether they voted to Remain or to Leave. To the extent that they wish to remain in the EU, that means that they are not their own men, they are happily subservient to whoever is giving them their orders. On the other hand, regardless of his recommendation, the Labour leader finds himself on the winning side with a mandate to exercise more power. Sure, he is in the same position as the others, not his own man, and happily subservient to whoever is giving him his orders. What changes everything though is where the orders are coming from: not from the elite above but from the huge majority below.

    In other words, asking a sovereign people the question of who is in charge could really only elicit one response: We are! It was a fatal mistake for a top-down organization to ask a bottom-up question with every vote counting. Like waking the so-called ‘sheeple’... more like waving a red flag at a bull.

    There is talk, as ever, that this too was planned. There is no way this was planned: that is the trap whereby in the very act of taking back your power you... give it away again. How did it happen? Hypocrisy, political correctness, respectability and left-brain thinking have reached such a pitch that none of the organizers expected the honest gut reaction of 34 million voters.
    Last edited by araucaria; 25th June 2016 at 08:02.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU



    ‘The EU and NATO are evil institutions. These two institutions are mechanisms created by
    Washington in order to destroy the sovereignty of European peoples. These two institutions
    give Washington control over the Western world and serve both as cover and enabler of
    Washington’s aggression. Without the EU and NATO, Washington could not force Europe
    and the UK into conflict with Russia, and Washington could not have destroyed seven Muslim
    countries in 15 years without being isolated as a hated war criminal government, no member
    of whom could have travelled abroad without being arrested and put on trial.

    Clearly, the presstitute media lied about the polls in order to discourage the leave vote. But it did not work.’




    Read more: The Brexit Vote. What Does it Mean?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bre...ar-iii/5532646

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    The Campaign To Undermine The Vote — Guest Column by Richie Allen

    By David on 25 June 2016 GMT Political Manipulation






    The Campaign To Undermind The Vote — Guest Column by Richie Allen

    June 24, 2016 | Categories: Guest Contributions | Tags: | Print This Article Print This Article

    The Campaign To Undermind The Vote
    By Richie Allen, Radio Presenter, Manchester.

    It’s been an amazing 24 hours, it really has. When the polls closed across the UK at
    10PM last night, I was deflated. A YouGov poll suggested that Vote Remain would
    carry the day by a margin of two to three points. Even UKIP’s Nigel Farage
    conceded remain was likely to win. Boris Johnson, speaking to commuters on the
    tube, as he made his way home, appeared despondent and pessimistic.

    Nobody could have guessed that less than 24 hours later, the British political
    landscape would have changed utterly and Prime Minister David Cameron would
    resign on live television, having lost the referendum he called, only four months
    ago. Leave carried the day, winning by a four point margin. The British people have
    spoken. Well, the British people have screamed actually.

    ‘Cameron said in his farewell address, that is important that the will of the people
    be accepted and that the British government should move quickly. He said that
    article 50 of The Lisbon treaty, should be triggered ASAP.

    That sounded good. Cameron had said while campaigning, that in the event Vote
    Remain lost, there would be no delay in informing Brussels of the UK’s intention to
    leave and to begin a period of negotiation over the UK’s future relationship with the
    union. That’s what he said then and that’s what he said today.

    But I am worried. This afternoon, former mayor of London Boris Johnson and
    current justice secretary Michael Gove, the leading lights in the Vote Leave team,
    said there was no rush to invoke article 50. “There is no need for haste,” Johnson
    said. “As the Prime Minister has just said, nothing will change over the short term
    except that work will have to begin on how to give effect to the will of the people
    and to extricate this country from the supranational system.”’

    Read more: The Campaign To Undermine The Vote — Guest Column by Richie Allen

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016...-richie-allen/

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    They are not even subtle: Discredited Elite 'ratings' agency Moody's downgrades UK
    to 'negative' after EU result. My current rating for Moody's remains unchanged -
    still filed under 'bollocks'

    By David on 25 June 2016 GMT Illuminati Criminals, Political Manipulation The Money Scam




    The EU vote result is such a shock to the Elite that they will do anything to frighten
    the public into reversing the result. Stay strong.

    Read more: They are not even subtle: Discredited Elite ‘ratings’ agency Moody’s
    downgrades UK to ‘negative’ after EU result. My current rating for Moody’s remains
    unchanged – still filed under ‘bollocks’


    [IMG]http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.19.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png
    [/IMG]

    EU referendum: Moody's cut UK's credit outlook to 'negative'
    33 minutes ago
    From the section EU Referendum

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36626201

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    RT NEWS....

    Over 850,000 sign petition calling for UK to hold 2nd referendum about leaving EU


    Published time: 24 Jun, 2016 14:38

    Edited time: 25 Jun, 2016 08:26

    The prospect of being outside of the European Union is too much for some of the 16
    million UK residents who wanted their country to ‘remain’. They have set up a
    parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum, which crashed due to its
    popularity.

    Despite being set up hours after the result, the petition has already reached its goal
    of over 100,000 signatures. This means that it must be considered for debate
    within parliament within a year.

    The petition has been signed by more than 525,000 Brits. Traffic to the site was so
    intense that it crashed temporarily.’

    Read more: 500,000 sign petition calling for second EU vote. Democracy = what THEY want

    https://www.rt.com/uk/348228-petitio...ent-uk-brexit/
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 25th June 2016 at 09:19.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    CrossTalk BREXIT: GOAL! (Recorded 24 June)

    RT News...




    Published on 24 Jun 2016

    Well it has happened! Citizens of the UK have decided to call it quits. The decades
    long debate whether to remain part of the Europe Union has been settled. Brexit is
    a reality. What’s next? CrossTalking with Xavier Moreau, John Laughland, and Alexander Mercouris.
    FACEBOOK: Like CrossTalk on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/crosstalkrules/


    ================================================== =
    ================================================== =


    Financial Outlook: Market, currency questions rise after Brexit



    Published on 24 Jun 2016

    On the markets, the pound went into freefall, reaching a record 30-year low. At one
    point it plunged by more than 11%. Panic also gripped the world's financial markets
    over uncertainty about what the Brexit will actually mean. European and U.S.
    futures tumbled as Asian stocks dropped by their biggest level in almost five years.
    European stocks plummeted as trading began and oil prices also went spiraling
    downwards. RT is joined by Max Keiser, Host of The Keiser Report and Edward
    Harrison from Boom Bust

    RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 25th June 2016 at 09:36.

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  9. Link to Post #125
    Belgium Avalon Member Violet's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Perhaps the reversal is automated already in people's denial of the authenticity of the win.

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    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Make no mistake Boris is very much part of the elites and
    would have the blessing of TPTB if he does become PM.



    Watch for the buying time scam - it's already started

    By David on 25 June 2016 GMT





    Osborne - Borris - Cameron ......



    media and political mind control has been going on for a long time....


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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Did anyone miss this:

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Brexit Referendum Is Non-Binding. UK Parliament Not Voters has Final Say
    [...]
    All the fuss and bother about Brexit largely ignores its non-binding status – parliament, not voters decid[es] if Britain stays or leaves the EU, the latter extremely unlikely.
    [...]
    Leaving would require Prime Minister David Cameron invoking Article 50, unlikely given his vocal opposition to Brexit.
    [...]
    [...]
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU



    Brexit referendum: EU ministers press UK for quick exit

    1 hour ago



    Foreign ministers from the EU's six founding nations met in Berlin

    EU states have urged Britain to hold speedy talks on leaving the
    bloc after it voted to end its membership in a historic referendum.

    German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said negotiations
    should begin as "soon as possible".


    read more....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626409


    ============================================




    Sturgeon pledges to 'protect' Scottish EU interests

    1 hour ago


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629331

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  17. Link to Post #129
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by bluestflame (here)
    i still get the feeling we'r being (mis)lead , still a lot of people ( almost equal numbers ) NOT happy about the split , division being the elitists hallmark


    in a state of vulnerability, finding a new direction , must be wary of the tendency to seek another figure head , repackaged , renamed , exceptionally well marketed , but worse


    Like the dog who finally catches the bus, the first thing to emerge at that point, with bus bumper in teeth, is "what now?"

    To march forward in the face of the pain and confusion it takes to remove parasites from the body, is the trick.

    Stay on target, keep focus.

    The politicians, bureaucrats, elites, and corporate heads... are upset and looking stern and confused.... as the public has kicked their (politicians, elites,etc) feed trough across the cement barn floor, upset it... and mixed the bits with sh!t and piss... that they themselves created.
    Last edited by Carmody; 25th June 2016 at 14:26.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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  19. Link to Post #130
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Brexit Referendum Is Non-Binding. UK Parliament Not Voters has Final Say
    [...]
    All the fuss and bother about Brexit largely ignores its non-binding status – parliament, not voters decid[es] if Britain stays or leaves the EU, the latter extremely unlikely.
    [...]
    Leaving would require Prime Minister David Cameron invoking Article 50, unlikely given his vocal opposition to Brexit.
    No , technically parliament can delay and even try to scare the public into another referendum.
    There is already a petition by over a million people for another one. I don't think they will
    have much choice as President Junckers and the other committed EU ministers are afraid
    of the domino effect and want us out ASAP.......


    Million sign petition for new EU referendum
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629324

    EU referendum: UK's EU commissioner Lord Hill to resign
    13 minutes ago
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629646

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  21. Link to Post #131
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
    Quote Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Brexit Referendum Is Non-Binding. UK Parliament Not Voters has Final Say
    [...]
    All the fuss and bother about Brexit largely ignores its non-binding status – parliament, not voters decid[es] if Britain stays or leaves the EU, the latter extremely unlikely.
    [...]
    Leaving would require Prime Minister David Cameron invoking Article 50, unlikely given his vocal opposition to Brexit.
    No , technically parliament can delay and even try to scare the public into another referendum.
    There is already a petition by over a million people for another one. I don't think they will
    have much choice as President Junckers and the other committed EU ministers are afraid
    of the domino effect and want us out ASAP.......


    Million sign petition for new EU referendum
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629324

    EU referendum: UK's EU commissioner Lord Hill to resign
    13 minutes ago
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629646

    Of course and they should grant the British public decent time for consideration and present them with the status quod - facts and economic rundown of what the 'leave' and 'remain' options mean and offer .

    It's not a small decision and many people are basing their current opinions on 'good faith'.


    The EU commissioners rhetorics on 'leave fast' is very stupid in my opinion , disrespectful , that should not be allowed to happen .
    This was just a referendum ( as Herve said ) , it may mean leaving the EU or not but does not represent the final decision.

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  23. Link to Post #132
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Of course and they should grant the British public decent time for consideration and present them with the status quod - facts and economic rundown of what the 'leave' and 'remain' options mean and offer .
    We've already had all that, months and months of it on TV, in newspapers, magazines, online, endless ad campaigns and the like. It's done and dusted.

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    This was just a referendum ( as Herve said ) , it may mean leaving the EU or not but does not represent the final decision.
    With due respect, the nation has made its decision, and now it should stick. It is the final decision. It does mean leaving the EU. The vote has been cast, and counted. Now it must be honoured. That is democracy. Anything else (a delay, a reversal, a second referendum) would imply the complete opposite of democracy - which sums up the EU, and is why the majority of the population chose to leave in the first place.

    I'll tell you now, any attempt to fudge this and put through another referendum would, I fear, be disastrous. It will generate all sorts of upheaval and unrest - the sort we haven't seen in this country since the poll tax riots which I posted about here.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
    [...]
    No , technically parliament can delay and even try to scare the public into another referendum.
    [...]
    Cameron leaves it to the next government to take it up after October... time aplenty to weave a thick carpet to shove it under and the majority of people to forget about it...

    On another hand, as Jon Rappoport wrote :

    Quote Coda: warning: the BBC is reporting that the British Parliament must ratify the referendum result. And the UK withdrawal from the EU will take place “within two years.” It’s a withdrawal negotiated between the British government and the EU. So various conditions and side-deals could be slipped into the equation.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Junckers, the head of the Euro group, basically a German currency basket system held by Germany, wants the UK out and in the streets, beaten down, as an example to others who might decide to leave.

    He wants the UK shown to the rest as being a body in the streets, beaten before it dies, as a warning, to curtail the inevitable 'over time' desire of the rest to either leave or re-negotiate the EU system.

    He and those who created the Euro control matrix, very quickly, as quickly as possible....require a sad and beaten scary body, to intimidate the rest of them with.

    This required him to ask the UK to leave quickly.

    Which he has done.

    Timing is everything for Junckers and the EU they hold captive and hostage.

    What will happen, over time, is the UK will recover and as time goes by, recover even more quickly, and be better off than they were inside of the EU system.

    Exactly like what happens to Iceland, which is far better off than they were before. Iceland has fully recovered in a record short time, as they were no longer under the thumb of fascist tendencies arsing out of monetary and economic manipulation by a small parasitical elite.

    Parasites cannot allow recovery and health to be seen by their hosts via witnessing recovery of prior infected parties... it cannot be allowed to be seen... by hosts who are still infected by parasites. those hosts will attempt their own freedom.

    There are deeper games than what I'm speaking on, though.

    The idea that Germany finally got their WWII message through... and this time via economics, not physical war.

    and the American banking system who financed them in the WWII period are still there, via the mechanism of NATO,and the same game as before is playing out. This is due to the USA putting the same people who were in charge of Germany during WWII, back into controlling Germany, immediately after the war. Seriously, no joke whatsoever. Look it up.

    Which is: Make sure a German controlled Europe never gets teamed up with Russia, which would be an economic and manufacturing powerhouse that makes the USA's systems and connections look like a joke..

    While the USA deep state, plays the EU and Germany against Russia...missile sites, trying provoke a grand European conflict, AGAIN...., with all that influx of people and refugees, and much more.
    Last edited by Carmody; 25th June 2016 at 16:23.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    A good discussion .................


    Keiser Report: Your Special Brexit Coctail



    Published on 25 Jun 2016

    Every week Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert look at all the scandal behind the financial news headlines.
    In this episode of the Keiser Report from New York City, Max and Stacy are joined by Mitch Feierstein
    of PlanetPonzi.com in order to dissect the economic, monetary and financial consequences of the ‘shocking’
    Brexit vote - Britain votes to leave the European Union. The Keiser Report team look closer at the market
    sell off and ask whether or not it is part of a wider market weakness already set in motion months ago and
    then examine the role of the media, much as in the case of the rise of Donald Trump, in simply failing to
    understand the ‘disposable’ voters left behind by globalisation. Mitch shows a chart proving that the biggest
    pound sterling sell off was actually in 2008 and the currency has never really recovered since then. And,
    finally, they look at the opportunities presented by panic selling.

    RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 25th June 2016 at 18:43.

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  31. Link to Post #136
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Cameron leaves it to the next government to take it up after October... time aplenty to weave a thick carpet to shove it under and the majority of people to forget about it...
    listening to the BBC news just now the UK government seems in no rush trigger
    article 50 as Cameron said. Which means several months , until a new conservative
    leader is chosen who would take over the prime minister role and Brexit talks.

    Then there is the question of whether this will trigger a general election ?
    in theory the current government has 4 years to go. Of course this
    depends how the other EU states feel about the situation. Initially President
    Junckers wanted it to start immediately , but other leaders like Merkel
    seems more conciliatory , still early days.


    Brexit: Merkel says 'no need to be nasty' in leaving talks

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36630326
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 26th June 2016 at 01:41.

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  33. Link to Post #137
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I don't know if anything will come of this ? but it would be interesting if over
    17,410,742 million people signed it....LOL




    EU referendum petition signed by more than 2.5m

    1 hour ago
    From the section EU Referendum


    People gathered to protest outside the Houses of Parliament following the leave result

    More than 2.5 million people have signed a petition calling for a second EU referendum, after the vote to leave.

    It has more signatures than any other on the parliamentary website and as it has passed 100,000, Parliament
    will consider it for a debate.

    The UK voted to leave the EU by 52% to 48% in Thursday's referendum but the majority of voters in London,
    Scotland and Northern Ireland backed Remain.

    David Cameron has previously said there will be no second referendum.

    On Friday he said he would stand down as prime minister by October following the leave result.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36629324
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 25th June 2016 at 22:59.

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  35. Link to Post #138
    Australia Avalon Member bluestflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    looks like the scare campaign has had an effect

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  37. Link to Post #139
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Did anyone miss this:

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Brexit Referendum Is Non-Binding. UK Parliament Not Voters has Final Say
    [...]
    All the fuss and bother about Brexit largely ignores its non-binding status – parliament, not voters decid[es] if Britain stays or leaves the EU, the latter extremely unlikely.
    [...]
    Leaving would require Prime Minister David Cameron invoking Article 50, unlikely given his vocal opposition to Brexit.
    [...]
    [...]
    Don't worry about that that's just scaremongering. The will of the majority will be adhered to they've said it themselves. If they didn't you would have anarchy here on a large scale. The whole edifice would crumble beside the actual establishment have got the result they wanted why would they change it.

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  39. Link to Post #140
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    perhaps the real agenda here IS division, seems to have been the effect, add to that a well timed financial crash ...

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