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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Watching the pomp and ceremony for the Queens speech.
    No body does it better.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Watching the pomp and ceremony for the Queens speech.
    No body does it better.
    Chris
    Speaking of which

    Queen delivers speech outlining post-Brexit plans

    Sky News Australia
    In hoc signo vinces / In this sign thou shalt conquer

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I’m looking at things from slightly bigger perspective now as I’m in India, in the heart of Tibetan refugee community, above all but India itself offers large spectrum of perspectives on what ways is this world shaping into future world, culturally, economically, legally and so forth.
    Indian PM Narendra Modi was recently visited by Chinese president Xi Ji who then travelled to Nepal.

    From what I’ve seen all around the world including Europe, South America and Asia, China has almost “imperial” kind of economical power crushed to everything from plastic toys ,cloth and milk powder, every second product in your supermarket was produced or coproduced in China.

    Hand in hand with its trade power are also traded security and legal protocols. I fear the future of the world commonly falling under the spell of such One World Order economy and policies which is the ultimate goal of communist manifesto possibly anyway.

    Back to the topic of Brexit though.


    I’m still of the opinion that pushing decisions by brute force will bring only more disaster that will destabilize both economies of Great Britain and the EU,
    there’s lots more people struggling economically or living from poor subsidies than governments care to admit and forceful decisions will result in more people starving.

    Wise farmer plans his actions carefully for year ahead,
    prepares the soil, saws the seeds in right time.
    If he does not do that the odds for good crops are left to a chance.

    So also taking any “exit” without it actually meaning powerful and positive step ahead, economic stability and advancement with less stress on borders
    is foolish in my opinion and under the cross of international crisis
    we are standing under together as humanity,

    the whole argument of Brexit looks like childish game.


    People still look to England as good old example of culture and morals, teacher and a guide.

    I may be wrong but it seems to me, the time is short now...

    and the state of human crisis that has globally many fundamental factors to be addressed and resolved including those of human rights and abuse, environmental and health care issues, human rights and freedoms needs to talk and deescalate stress instead advancing to state of bigger chaos we won’t be able to control.


    But that’s my opinion anyway. Prices of fruits and vegetables have gone up steeply and further increase to be expected.
    🙈🙉🙊


    🙏🌟🙏

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Here's Jeff Taylor's analysis of todays events 17 days to Brexit day



    Agape... childish? foolish? I beg you look again! Some things are worth fighting for, and the EU political project is worth fighting against. The EU project is a globalist, power-mongers dream come true. Have a closer look: here's David Icke giving his own take (in a 26 April, 2019 interview). Go to 30:55, just for a few minutes. Not everyone is going to agree with what he says about this, but I do. Here is a link to David Icke's interview on Brexit (it's at 30:55)

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Just a quick anecdote...

    I was at a hypnotherapy training 3 years ago. It was more of an esoteric training, a blend of Solomonic ceremonial magic combined with an NLP technique called 'Stacking anchors', highly effective techniques for deep changework. The guy leading the training however was talking about spirits and festivals and how festivals are conducted to invoke different spirits, like the spirit of Christmas is invoked by the rituals of gift giving, decorating homes and putting up trees.

    He then went on to say that the spirit of Christmas is actually on the decline and in the future Halloween will become the greatest spirit, with the greatest festivals of the year, and that "Christmas isn't based on anything real anyway". Utter madness I thought to myself, firstly its based on the winter solstice tradition, a very real and important part of the solar calender, plus there's too many vested interests that greedily feed on the spirit of consumerism that Christmas evokes. There's no way Halloween will ever knock Christmas off its perch as top festival of the year.

    Later on in the training we got talking about secret societies and the trainer divulged to the group, during a dinner break chat, that he was a card carrying member of OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis), which if anyones knows anything about the City of London, is one of the more favoured Secret Societies among the London elites.

    How does this relate to Brexit?

    If we leave the EU on October 31st (Halloween) and the day subsequently becomes a bank holiday, some kind of 'EU independence day', wouldn't that help OTO and the Crowley'ites in London further their agenda of making 'the day of the dead' a more important festival in the English calender?

    Speculation on my part, but could be worth considering.


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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Thanks Jake for your post.
    Dates seem very important to some.

    Ive given up on trying to work out who are the bad guys--are there an good guys?
    Or what is for the best for the general UK public.
    On the whole I think that most MP's are genuinely there for the right reasons.
    They are as easily mislead as the rest of us.
    No wonder my main interest/priority is non-duality
    The only way to achieve peace etc to my mind is through spiritual practise--every other way has been tried an only leads to more conflict.

    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    With his enormous experience and insider connections Craig Murray shares the following from his blog. It is, as always, well worth digesting in its entirety. Several large helpings of food for thought, at such an early hour of the day (for some), may negate breakfast.

    ——————————————

    Bad Faith Negotiation
    15 Oct, 2019 in Uncategorized by craig

    I seldom comment on Brexit, largely because I neither see leaving the EU as a panacea nor the EU itself as a Utopia, and am alienated by the over-extravagant passions and claims on both sides. In addition to that, the FCO is largely excluded from Brexit negotiations, being perceived by the Tories as a nest of remainers, so I seldom get any interesting information fed to me by ex-colleagues.

    I should admit at this point that my apparently effortless expertise on myriad subjects is something of a fake, because often posts are prompted and informed (and very rarely, even written) by someone on the inside, and sometimes it is not possible to tell you that. But sometimes I can tell you, and today this knowledge comes from the inside.

    The Legal Advisers of the FCO remain the UK government’s source of expertise on public international law. When the Attorney General publishes his view on such a matter, it has been drafted by FCO Legal Advisers or at the least is based on a minute from them.

    The sole exception to this of which I know was when Blair’s Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, received formal advice from FCO Legal Advisers that to invade Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Goldsmith then flew to Washington on instruction from Blair and Goldsmith’s final advice that the war was legal was based on drafting, not from FCO Legal Advisers, but from George Bush’s Legal Advisors.
    That is one of those incredible facts that I often find hard to understand do not lead to active public outrage. I wish I was a more religious man and could be sure that Hell awaits Goldsmith. I comfort myself with the thought that Goldsmith might himself be religious and cowering.

    There is currently considerable alarm in the FCO that Legal Advisers have been asked about the circumstances constituting force majeure which would justify the UK in breaking a EU Withdrawal Agreement in the future. The EU did not fall for Johnson’s idea that a form of Northern Irish “backstop” would only come into effect with the future sanction of Stormont, as this effectively gives a hardline unionist veto, and Barnier was not born yesterday.

    The situation that Johnson and Raab appear now to contemplate is agreeing a “backstop” now to get Brexit done, but then not implementing the agreed backstop when the time comes due to “force majeure”.

    There are two major problems with this line of thinking.

    The first is that it will give unionists an incentive to foment disorder in order to justify breaking the backstop agreement – indeed there is a concern that might be the tacit understanding Johnson is reaching with the DUP. Remember the British state conspired with the same people to murder the lawyer Pat Finucane and destroyed the evidence as recently as 2002.

    The second problem is one of bad faith negotiation, and this is what is troubling the diplomats of the FCO. To negotiate an agreement with the secret intention of breaking it in future is a grossly immoral proceeding, and undermines the whole principle of good international relations.

    I should like to be able to say that I am sure this cannot be the intention. But when I look at Johnson, Raab and Cummings, I am really not so sure at all. It is possible that Johnson will succeed in the apparently insurmountable challenge of securing a deal all parties can agree, by the simple strategy of promising some parties he has no intention of honouring it.

    ——————————————
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Its saying page can not be found.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Jef Taylor continues his daily update, 16 days to Brexit day

    Could Boris Johnson Really Clinch This Brexit Deal?!

    Against all the odds Boris is managing to keep the Brexit negotiations with the EU on some sort of track, but also, just as importantly, he is slowly winning over support from both wings of the Brexit debate.




    My own thoughts might not come as a surprise to anyone: for remainers to accept a true 'Brexit deal' (that isn't just 'Brexit in name only') they will need to swallow losers consent. Until they do, they will carry on trying to stop Brexit exactly the same as they have over the last three years. We should have had general elections when Boris called for them over the previous few months. Remainer MPs will push for a second referendum when they famously blocked a general election... I'd call it hypocrisy but they know the dirty tricks they are playing, there's no sanctimony, just plain old lies

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  20. Link to Post #971
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I also think that they should work on improving all trade routes within Europe and the Islands since they’re comparatively short routes, the most frequented and practical to keep going.
    Really what are the benefits of importing costly fruits from South Africa and New Zealand and cutting ties with Spain ?
    Isn’t that snobbish and vane if we all benefit from affordable citruses in winter?

    It seemed to me for some reason that trade rules are established or broken only once in fiscal year. There should be such a liberty of trade and business rules enabling revision of trade agreements every year, internationally and without prejudice or huge financial sanctions.
    Thus useless agreements and businesses could be reviewed and replaced by home fair.


    Same legal system of free trade should be adopted by all states who agree with it.


    We see the opposite happening within the EU of course, more laws, more controls imposed on everybody in the name of global security etc.

    I almost see a twighlight zone in front of my eyes sending us 60 years back in time.


    Sure that can’t be accurate



    🙏🛎🙏

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    ...

    Bad Faith Negotiation
    15 Oct, 2019 in Uncategorized by craig

    ...
    The second problem is one of bad faith negotiation, and this is what is troubling the diplomats of the FCO. To negotiate an agreement with the secret intention of breaking it in future is a grossly immoral proceeding, and undermines the whole principle of good international relations.

    ...
    Bad faith negotiations? In the last few weeks we've seen the only thing approaching good faith negotiations in all of Brexit. This was since Boris played the 'no deal by proxy' (here is a link to a post about this)

    I don't understand why remainers don't ever talk about the Northern Ireland Assembly and the need to get it working again, because it's where the people of Northern Ireland need to make their own choices and control their own destiny. Everyone else seems to want to speak for them

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Possibly things are moving fast... either forward into the light, or it's not a light it's an oncoming train. It might be we have hours before deal or no deal or dead in a ditch

    Jeff Taylor an hour ago:

    Are we on the verge of a Brexit deal?
    Earlier today, Brussels gave the UK until midnight tonight to get the full Brexit deal in place. But the latest news is that Eurocrats will now set up an emergency EU27 summit, if that deadline is missed.

    Edit:
    Not a deal, but a serious proposal for a deal. It won't be legally binding, it would be a headline proposal agreed by all parties so far
    Last edited by YoYoYo; 15th October 2019 at 19:35.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    About time YoYoYo
    Hopeful the end is in sight
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    For me, it's will it be the end, or the start of a new longer fight. It will depend on what it is, and all I have is some sense of anxiety ... but however on the bright side there is little I can do between my mouth, my typing fingers and my hole.

    So...... anyone else want to go to a happy place?

    voilà...

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  30. Link to Post #976
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Seems that UK is making concessions rather than EU.
    Getting any deal through parliament is another story though.
    Cant see that a General Election would solve anything.
    It scuppered May's chances of getting her deal through.
    I think history would repeat.
    Best bet, perhaps, is to have a referendum now to give parliament clear instruction---once again!!!
    Then an election can be held on normal vote for the party not Brexit.
    Which ever is elected then would have to carry out the will of the people.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I mentioned earlier the need to give pro-Brexit conspiracy theories a rest. What we have here is the potential for the Tory gang being hoist by their own petard. If conspiracy is collusion among several individuals for nefarious ends, then political activity itself is the first to fall under that category whenever ethical standards slip in government. Such malfeasance dates back at least to the buying off of the minority DUP by Theresa May: the mainstream media gave the price as a couple of billion. Apparently the cheque-book is out again to the tune of billions more.
    Quote There are multiple reports that the DUP is being offered a significant cash deal alongside the Brexit pact.
    The Financial Times is reporting sources as saying the DUP were being offered “billions not millions” as a sweetener.
    The Irish Times also noted the offer of “a multimillion-euro package of investment funded by the EU, London and Dublin”. They are reporting indications that “political agreement had been reached on the main points and precise details were being worked through”. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live
    While normal political alliances operate on a quid pro quo basis, at some stage it becomes bribery plain and simple. It is a win-win-win situation for the DUP: not only the cash, the huge political clout in the Brexit business, but also the possibility of punching above their weight in years to come. All of this is of course both corrupt and undemocratic. So is the behaviour inferred in the following comments, which can be assessed by looking at the strange goings-on that suddenly come into focus.
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)

    Bad Faith Negotiation
    15 Oct, 2019 in Uncategorized by craig

    ...
    There are two major problems with this line of thinking.

    The first is that it will give unionists an incentive to foment disorder in order to justify breaking the backstop agreement – indeed there is a concern that might be the tacit understanding Johnson is reaching with the DUP. Remember the British state conspired with the same people to murder the lawyer Pat Finucane and destroyed the evidence as recently as 2002.

    The second problem is one of bad faith negotiation, and this is what is troubling the diplomats of the FCO. To negotiate an agreement with the secret intention of breaking it in future is a grossly immoral proceeding, and undermines the whole principle of good international relations.

    I should like to be able to say that I am sure this cannot be the intention. But when I look at Johnson, Raab and Cummings, I am really not so sure at all. It is possible that Johnson will succeed in the apparently insurmountable challenge of securing a deal all parties can agree, by the simple strategy of promising some parties he has no intention of honouring it.

    ——————————————

    Johnson’s entire strategy of illegal time-wasting followed by a last-minute burst of negotiation and back-pedalling now makes some sense, as does the dramatic reconciliation with dissidents in his own party in the Queen’s speech debate; as does the long drawn-out issue of refusing to send a letter to Brussels in the event of no deal while claiming to take the UK out of the EU on October 31st. There is a perverse truthfulness in all of this: he is delivering his promises, including the Queen’s speech as a programme of action – the opposition is barking up the wrong tree in describing it as an electoral manifesto. It all falls into place when one factors in the one suspicion voiced here, namely “bad faith negotiation”.
    Johnson’s Churchillian posturing is not limited to the “We shall never surrender” meme; he is also playing a variation on the “riddle wrapped up in an enigma” theme whereby the dishonesty is shrouded in this form of honesty – which goes a long way to explaining his popularity. If he is willing to go back on his word whenever it suits him, it doesn’t really matter what sort of deal he does; the intention all along has been to strike a deal – any deal – while brandishing the red herring of No Deal. Which is why, counter-intuitively, No Deal is the only viable option at this stage – but with no exit.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Looking at all this from a business point of view.
    Leaving makes no sense.
    The EU is our nearest customer and our best.
    The tariffs--are a good deal.
    Foreign car manufacturers attracted to UK as a point of entry into the big EU market.
    We leave we are in competition with EU.
    Biggest has the most clout and tends to win.

    People who wish to leave and those who wish to remain need only ask one question--Why do I want to leave--or why do I want to stay??
    In other words, whats in it for me and mine?
    Yes forget the conspiracy theories for the moment.

    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    From a business point of view, it makes very much sense to Brexit. We can trade with the World and not just a handful of Countries. We can decide what comes through our borders and Customs. We can set our own tariffs and have our fishing rights back. And we can still trade with the EU if we wish, or not. We will become a great trading nation once again, not some vassal state of the EU.
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Respectfully scanner--Have you ever been self employed?
    Chris
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