The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

[Jayke]

Nigel Farage has Donald Trump as a guest on his LBC Livestream last night

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=a7WsHoHgUP8

[Cara]

Posting for the record, in case the story changes:

Alex Wickham
@alexwickham
·
16h
NEW

The UK’s intelligence agencies found no evidence that the Russian state interfered in the outcome of the Brexit referendum and the 2017 election, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the Intelligence and Security Committee report

[Matthew]

In UK Brexit news Nigel Farage aims to expose the truth about Boris' deal.

tweet: https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/sta...592643586?s=20

Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage

Over the next two weeks, we will embark on a nationwide campaign to expose this rotten deal.

Every household in the land will hear the truth about the perilous path it would send our nation on.

The deal is simply not Brexit and does not get Brexit done.

Drop your dreadful deal, Boris, and in the national interest let's get Brexit done properly
The Brexit Party is ready for the general election. As the European election made clear, we have hundreds of high quality candidates from a diverse range of backgrounds who are united in their desire to secure a proper break from Brussels and who share a lack of trust in the political class.
...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...done-properly/

[greybeard]

All sides seem to have an agenda and who is actually there for the voters I wonder.
What is really in the best interests of UK or the future of the free world?
Dont ask me--Im a floating--non voter.
Chris

[Bill Ryan]

All you Brits (or people who live in Britain!) — please forgive me for this. I've only just discovered it.

I've also just realized that YoYoYo posted it here, back in July. But no apologies for the re-post! It's priceless.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yGL-XJPuCuo

[sunwings]

Bravo! This analogy I use with Spanish teenagers.

Imagine the UK is a car. Every five years we have elections and the new government changes the car´s tyres. The conservatives prefer hard tyres and labour prefer softer tyres.

Now in 2016, we had a vote to decide if we want to change the engine of the car. We already have a nice reliable European/ British engine but we were promised an Aston Martin of an engine if we decided to change it.

However, changing the car's engine has not been easy. It turns out the new engine will be more like a Rover 600 then an Aston Martin. The Europeans would like us to keep the same engine but maybe just change a piston or two.

ps. No disrespect to anyone who has/had a Rover

[greybeard]

How to make the perfect cuppa - as Boris Johnson's tea-making skills are questioned

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/boris-joh...103921654.html

Boris Johnson’s tea-making skills have been questioned after he was filmed pouring himself a cuppa in an election broadcast on Twitter.

The Prime Minister was criticised for not taking the teabag out, adding milk with it still in and barely stirring the brew.

Some people even pointed out that the controversial technique could even lose the 55-year-old votes in the general election.

Mr Johnson responded to those who noticed how he takes his brew, saying: “This really is how I make my tea… It lets it brew and makes it stronger.”


The original heading was Outrage over Johnson's tea making skills.
I m not fond of how the media sensationalizes everything.

Actually thats exactly how I make my tea.
"Controversial technique" Well I never!!
Chris

[Chester]

Posted by greybeard (here)
How to make the perfect cuppa - as Boris Johnson's tea-making skills are questioned

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/boris-joh...103921654.html

Boris Johnson’s tea-making skills have been questioned after he was filmed pouring himself a cuppa in an election broadcast on Twitter.

The Prime Minister was criticised for not taking the teabag out, adding milk with it still in and barely stirring the brew.

Some people even pointed out that the controversial technique could even lose the 55-year-old votes in the general election.

Mr Johnson responded to those who noticed how he takes his brew, saying: “This really is how I make my tea… It lets it brew and makes it stronger.”


The original heading was Outrage over Johnson's tea making skills.
I m not fond of how the media sensationalizes everything.

Actually thats exactly how I make my tea.
"Controversial technique" Well I never!!
Chris

I leave my tea bags in all the way until the tea has been fully imbibed (yes bags... I use two). I prefer Lap Sang Su Chong... and I tap a tad of a special stevia you can't get anymore because the importer got out of the biz (I bought her entire stock which should last me into my 90s should I make it that long).

Thankfully I can't lose any votes.

[sunwings]

Posted by Sammy (here)
I leave my tea bags in all the way until the tea has been fully embibed (yes bags... I use two). I prefer Lap Sang Su Chong... and I tap a tad of a special stevia you can't get anymore because the importer got out of the biz (I bought her entire stock which should last me into my 90s should I make it that long.

Thankfully I can't lose any votes.

This is a funny joke regarding tea and Brexit.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Xm6Id3Qt8Wk

[Phoenix1304]

Hi Greybeard

I've watched a few of Craig's vids. 'I'm fallible' he says quite often. He predicted quite decisively that we'd leave in March 2019 then again on Oct 31st. A hard Brexit with a last minute deal. He doesn't show that in the retrospectives! But when something is so hit and miss it's not wise to take any of it really. He says Conservatives will win the election and Jeremy Corbyn gains more power but then is replaced after election? Who knows. I predicted that the 31st would pass with another delay and I make no claim of psychism. It's all beyond a joke now and the only thing we can take for sure is that the backroom, Bullingdon Club deals are what shape policy, not the voting public.

My father used to say 'if you don't vote, it's the same as giving a vote to each party' and when I think that women died to give me the right to vote, I feel I ought to, but like others I feel there is little point. It's a rigged game. Jeremy Corbyn radiates integrity and isn't in the game of slinging muck at others (as they do on him relentlessly) and that makes me favour him, also socialist ambitions like free education, healthcare, taking back control of the water etc. but I'm afraid the public are so sick of them all, completely programmed to believe whatever the mainstream agenda is, that we will get the government we deserve and the slaves will slog on and continue to swell the offshore accounts of the plutocrats.

Call me cynical. I am. If Labour won though, to be honest, I'd have a glimmer of hope and I've never voted Labour in my life! Somehow I think that JC would manage a Brexit that isn't all about plutocrats avoiding taxes and exposure.

[greybeard]

Thanks Phoenix1304 for your input.
Living in Scotland the perspective is quite different--we benefit greatly from being in the EU.
Andrew Marr on BBC this morning will be good--he is Scottish incidently.
Cant see an election solving the Brexit mess---people have made their minds up.
Boris may loose his seat--that would be a first.
SNP will probably gain seats.
In Scotland many benefits--free eye test--free bus pass over 60 and disabled.
Scotland traditional Labour --SNP has many Labour qualities.
Interesting to see where this all goes.
Chris

[Longjohn]

Dear Guys,

I've not contributed to the Avalon forum for some time, but after reading with dismay some of the Pro-Leave views expressed here, I felt impelled to say something.

As a Brit living in Switzerland for the last 10 years, I see Brexit through the eyes of a country that is 'outside' the EU, but still has to trade with it.

From a trading point of view, it's most interesting, because Switzerland is surrounded on all sides by the largest and wealthiest nations of the EU. It's part of the single market, but not part of the customs union. People think that because you can easily cross borders in your car from Switzerland into France, Germany, Italy and Austria, trade must be equally easy and 'frictionless'. Not so!

Watch this video in which a van driver and a prominent Dover-based Brexiteer go to Switzerland and try and export a simple car component back to the UK, and observe the dismay on the Brexiteer's face after having to deal with all the paperwork and customs agents:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5hWQ0T10v6Y

For most of the ten years I've lived here, I worked in a large factory, and I saw the issues mentioned in this video on a much larger scale. It often took days to organise export papers, so much so that sometimes we would sneakily (and illegally!) drive across the border and despatch the goods from a French or German post office!

In Johnson's new agreement, the countries of England, Scotland and Wales will no longer have the luxury of frictionless trade with Europe after Brexit Day. And UK citizens will certainly not have the privilege of jumping across the border to send their goods from an EU post office, because the English Channel rather gets in the way of that!

Britain is not in the slightest bit prepared for this. There is no ready-and-waiting export/import infrastructure, replete with all the necessary customs offices and agents to deal with this. C'MON, BREXITEERS, GET REAL!!!

Johnson's deal is actually very different to Theresa May's in that it is virtually a No-Deal Brexit in all but name. How many people realise that?

Britain treasures its venerable democracy, but never questions whether its governmental structure meets the needs of the modern age. Was it really democratic to have just a single referendum in which people were misled by unscrupulous and, worse still, ill-informed politicians, and not to have a chance to review their decision based on better information or changing events? Surely the very essence of democracy is that it should be a fluid, maleable process, reflecting the changing will of the people?

In Switzerland, they would never have been satisfied with just one referendum, but would have have at least 10 on the same issue in the time it has taken for the Brits to deal with one! Nor is Switzerland liable to be hijacked by mendacious single-issue politicians, because the system simply does not allow them to achieve the prominence and power they are able to acquire in the UK.

So should Britain not better spend its time examining the deficiencies, antiquities and iniquities of its own centralised government instead of excoriating the EU for being a tyrannous administration?

The next (very short) video sums up my view on Brexit:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SQscs6WWP_I

Best regards,

John

[greybeard]

Yes John.
We dont have a coherent trade deal set up with anyone and as far as I can see it take quite some time to set up due to all the rules and regulations of any other country that have to be met and they ours.
It all seems red bus pie in the sky to me.

Form a management committee and watch the time delay increase.

Our own civil service is well capable of developing and implementing draconian rules and regulations--More freedom as an independent nation --think again.
Brexit is based on the lies of Boris--magnificent salesman--tells people what they want to hear, even if it is not true-- seems people would rather believe a serial liar than look at inconvenient truth ---a clasic is him telling people Norther Ireland that there will not be any paperwork sending goods to the rest of UK--at the same time a member of the cabinet is saying there will be.
Im not against leaving but against leaving without a proper trade deal set up and there is no sign of that being on the table for negotiation---as said a lengthy proposition.

Chris

[Longjohn]

Brexit and the Deep State:

Something I often see is a tendency for conspiracy-theorists in Anglo-Saxon countries outside Britain to regard Brexit as a titanic battle fought between an evil, globalist EU and a downtrodden vassal state, struggling to be free. This is the view put forward in many well-known alternative news aggregation sites, such as ZeroHedge. Joseph P. Farrell seems to share this view in the video presented in Post #1118 above.

So Britain's exit from the EU will be a jab in the eye for the Deep State, and will set the scene for similar rebelliousness elsewhere in the EU and throughout the world. Really?

Do you really think the Deep State is as dumb as that? These are the same guys who have thrived on chaos for years, triggering financial crashes and profiting from the very wars they fund. They take the long view and look forward to a disunited world reduced to chaos and conflict.

When the next global recession hits, there won't be a nice compliant Obama ready to pour more QE oil on the troubled financial waters of the US and Europe. I somehow doubt that a guy like Trump will be so ready to see reason and bail out other nations.

The Deep Statists have done their job well: they've installed idiot, incompetent, populist politicians in the major governments who will put narrow national interests first, without thought of negotiation or consensus for the greater good. The Illuminati, meanwhile, will be waiting in the wings to profit from people's misery and, at the same time, to present themselves as our saviours. Just read James Rickard's concept of the Ice-Nine scenario:

https://kingdomecon.wordpress.com/20...this-scenario/

The crumbling financial assets of the world of the world will be frozen, and out of the chaos a New World Order will emerge, with a single cashless currency (IMF Special Drawing Rights, or gold-backed cash). This scheme will be sold to the destitute masses as the only way out of an otherwise interminable recession, and the people will be grateful to their new masters.

So if you Brexiteers think that getting out of the EU offers the UK Freedom and Sovereignty, just stop and think of where all this disunity could lead us.

It's not impossible that the Brexit chaos could provide the tipping-point for a new Great Recession in which the relatively benign EU is swept away and replaced by a surpassingly tyrannical World Government.

Be careful what you wish for!

[greybeard]

A far as I can see the great majority of Tory MP's were for Brexit just not for one that would bring chaos to UK finances and trading.
The Tory faithful, were not faithful, did not listen to Tory stalwarts, who, for as far as I can see, prevented the plans offered, for the right reasons, from being passed
To my mind--Its folly to ignore the advice of former cabinet ministers, chancellors, PM's and long serving Tories.
Are they all wrong
They were not against Brexit on the whole but against the plans put forward.
Norther Ireland and Scotland thrown under a bus--promises broken.
Does the end justify the means?
As said be careful what you wish for
I almost wish a Brexit no deal happens--then see what you've got!!!
Chris

[scanner]

An argument put forward by two people again, for what they can get out of it. Scotland and a person who lived in Switzerland for ten years. I do business now with China, America, Australia, South Korea, I don't do too much with the EU, there is too much regulation. You only mention the business side of it. What about immigration, self rule and set our own Laws. Having the ability to decide who we want to trade with? What about our borders at Sea, fishing given to the French and Spanish. Watched by our fishing boats through binoculars in our waters, our Fishermen are not allowed to fish. You can both argue your selfish economics, but from my point of view, you just that selfish.

[greybeard]

Not two people --scores of people who say Boris not to be trusted--scores of MP's who voted for Brexit but cant support the Boris agenda.
The truth is inconvenient for quite a few who wont do a reality check.

Im glad you are successful scanner but think of the youth of today who will not have the freedom to come and go throughout Europe as we could.
Our NHS desperately needs foreign medical people --you can pump billions into NHS but where is the staff coming from?
There has been a degree of financial stability since we joined the EU.
Boris is not stable and not a statesman and people trust him!!!--well you get what you wish for.

Chris

[Longjohn]

It's a cheap shot to describe us as being selfish.

I've been around too long, and I'm a practical engineer who was once a UK school teacher. I've seen with my own eyes how the fabric of British society has become shredded over the years, and how that has sown seeds of discontent that causes dispossessed people to seek out a cause for their ills, which miscreant politicians have told them is the EU.

To reiterate Greybeard's excellent point, I too see the loss of opportunities for young people. Why do I say that? Because I was one of those young people who would go and work in EU projects, and I'm saddened that people like my son will not so easily come by similar opportunities. That's hardly selfish, is it?

Let's examine your points:

Laws and self-rule:

Don't fall for the mythology of Britain not being able to create its own laws. Parliament always had control of at least 90% of the laws on its statute book, and approved of 98% of those that came from the EU, which by the way, were laws that were beneficial to the working man or for the environment and quality of life. I earnestly recommend that you view some of the excellent videos by Stephen Fry that provide real information and put to rest many of the lies put out by Messrs. Johnson, Gove, Farage and their ilk. Try this one for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o

If you're in a hurry, start at about 5.00 mins through the video and see what is said about EU laws.

Immigration:

Please don't fall for the myth that EU immigrants took away British jobs. They did work that Brits simply did not have the skills for, or 'menial' work that Brits refused to do, such as picking fruit or working in hotels. Stephen Fry's video will give you a few more facts on this.

Fishing:

Brexiteers go on about fishing, but in fact it contributes just over 0.1% of Britain's GDP as against 0.6% for farming. Add to this the complexities of what would happen after Brexit: it's by no means certain that Britain's fishing industry would have a clear route to prosperity. Read this article from the FT, if you like:

https://www.ft.com/content/84f51c84-...7-502f7ee26895

Trade:

As regards your much-vaunted freedom to trade with whomever you like, don't talk to me about being selfish. If you have views on this that don't stand up to proper research and verification, then you are putting British jobs and livelihoods at risk. In my book, that's selfish!

What's come of all the magical trade deals promised by Liam Fox's International Trade Department? In a no-deal Brexit, Britain could well find itself cast adrift from the international trading fraternity. You cannot just go out and trade on WTO rules. Where is the framework for that? Read what both the current director and ex-director of the WTO have to say about it:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/e...f-a-wto-brexit

There's a good video on YouTube in which the ex-director of the WTO (Pascal Lamy) tears into Ian Duncan Smith:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6svI3W_vI

Also please ask yourself which countries Britain is going to trade with after Brexit that it doesn't trade with already. From what you say, you already do that. What difference will Brexit really make to you?

The damage to Britain's reputation brought about by Brexit is already severe: do you really think that's going help negotiations with future partners, especially considering that Britain will not go into future trade talks from the position of strength it formerly had as a member of the EU? Such trade talks take years! What does Britain do in the interregnum between the looming disorderly Brexit and achieving this fantastical dream of conducting buccaneering trade deals all over the world?


I think it's inconsiderate (and SELFISH) to your fellow man if you promulgate beliefs that are not adequately based on fact, and could leave your nation in a state of uncertainty and risk its future well-being and prosperity!

You may continue to disagree with me, but at least I research my facts before spouting them out. Let me see you do the same...

Best regards,

John

[scanner]

Your arguments are too little too late. The die was cast over three years ago, again, 17.4 million voted, again we were ignored. Lied to back in 1972 by an alleged paedophile Prime minister Heath, under the guise, "it's a common market". It's not, it's a dictatorship. You both need to read, Europaische WirtschaftsGemeinschaft' aka The 'EEC', 1942. Nothing has changed, except the method and rhetoric. There is nothing you can say that will change mind position on this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7032221.html
The Nazis drew up the “basic plan” for the European Union decades before it was actually established, a Ukip MEP has claimed.

Gerard Batten on Monday stepped up to defend Boris Johnson, who on Sunday attracted criticism for likening the EU’s aims to those of Adolf Hitler.

Mr Batten however suggested Mr Johnson had actually underplayed the connections between the EU and the Nazis, and that the bloc had “closer links” with the fascists than many realized.

So you're maligning yourselves with fascists and a dictatorship.

[greybeard]

Regardless-
Many businesses including your own have flourished in the environment which includes the EU Scanner.
If it aint broke dont fix it---unless for sure you have something better in place which benefits the whole of the UK
There as been a too and fro between EU countries which has been beneficial for all as far as I can see.
A sharing of many things.
I accept that much can be said against the staying in the EU an much said against leaving.
I dont have a problem with for and against debate when it is honestly put forth.
If leaving is such a good thing why did Boris and friends tell so many lies and half truths prior to the referendum?
Much has been made of imigration--little has be said of UKpeople that go and work abroad--some settle as in the USA--The Irish over there take a dim view of Boris treatment of Ireland and we will pay the price when we try to negotiate trade deals with USA--small powerless UK.
So if leave at any price comes about--what then?
We will have a Prime minister and cabinet that have repeatedly misinformed and kept important information from the voters.
Is that what the British public really want?
Boris wont even tell you how many children he has.
He wants to be "father of the UK parliament" hasn't shown any parenting skills that I am aware of.

A referendum is advisory--not bound in law.
Leaving the market will be--time for second thoughts--much more info now available--for and against--many young voters now--they will be affected when we are dead and gone.
Is it not fair and unselfish to now consider the opinion of those now eligible to vote in a new referendum?
Governments come and go they can be changed---When we leave that is not up for change.
Is it right that us older people dictate to they young that we should leave based on a flawed referendum years ago.
Many vote against--in many countries a referendum/vote has to be carried by more than a small % over Fifty Percent.
Many are the conspiracy theories--some may even be true.
We joined the EU many years ago---cant see that it has been a disaster--warts and all.
Nothing works 100% for the good of all---compromise compromise compromise.

Chris