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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

  1. Link to Post #1041
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Im not disagreeing with your take scanner--tho we dont need any assistance to traffic kids--its been going on since forever in the UK, its just highlighted now.

    Where I have a challenge is the lying threatening--bullying going on and as far as I can tell the Government is more active in this, than remainers.
    Also I look at the number of people who know Boris, family included, who have come out against him.
    Can this man be trusted to honestly look after this Nation?

    Normally in some democratic countries the vote has to be quite a bit more than just over 50% to win--a lot of people voted against leaving--Scotland is being carried forward against its will, and through this, we may well see the break up of the UK--once Great Britain.
    Im neutral on home rule too but I certainly would not want to see a hard border between Scotland and England and that's where Boris policy is ultimately taking us.
    Welsh Farmers non too happy either.
    Northern Ireland up in arms.
    All thats a bigger picture too.
    I also get that this situation has gone on longer than enough and it was started with a referendum--it might end with one --or crash out.
    You may get what you wish for.

    A general Election should not be about Brexit- a GE is about many things.
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 22nd October 2019 at 15:34.
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  3. Link to Post #1042
    UK Avalon Member YoYoYo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I'll lead with Mahyar Tousi today

    Remain Parliament’s Final Chance To Delay Brexit




    Guess what everyone?
    There's a faction of British MP's who blocked calls for general elections, ignored the historical referendum result and continue to think it's appropriate to call for a second referendum, a 'peoples vote'. Strange because I thought the first referendum was a peoples vote, and general elections are peoples votes. The worst thing is: the remain MPs know what they're doing and why; they want to remain under the influence of the EU Commission against the will of the people - general elections are their enemies lol. They had better take our vote clean away or they know what will happen soon.

    It's very healthy this general election will have huge focus on Brexit, because too many MPs have disrespected democracy in this issue


    ***UPDATE***
    Oh here's Jeff Taylors usual daily report 9 days to Brexit day
    YouTube link - Boris Johnson to call general election if Brexit deal fails in the House!
    Last edited by YoYoYo; 22nd October 2019 at 18:45.

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  5. Link to Post #1043
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Newsflash
    MPs have voted for more delay

    Jeff Taylor gives the news again, again

    Brexit has not dented the Tory Poll lead!

    Despite Boris Johnson being forced to send the Article 50 extension letter, the Conservative Party has not suffered in the polls.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    What do you think the monarchy most prefers? Do they care either way?
    Hi AutumnW! I just noticed this question so thought I'd combine a hello with my own mis-informed opinion, and bad spelling.

    I imagine the monarchy would like the UK independent because I guess EU nationality threatens their existence. For example, in Brexit negotiations the UK had to fight a clause that made UK armed forces swear alligance to the EU, instead of the Queen.

    But state-wise, the current Queen would respect the sovereignty of the people, which our MPs are meant to represent. They currently, famously, don't.

    The Supreme Court, set up by Tony Blair, has directed Parliament in the way the monarchy used to, but dare not any more. 800 years and in the last couple of decades we get a Supreme Court made by a famous war-monger who switched his religion for politics and was up to no good. A big sarcastic thanks to Tony Blair

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  9. Link to Post #1045
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Is this guy, Jeff Taylor, an undertaker
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


    Ireland backs Brexit delay after Boris Johnson loses key vote on deal

    Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-john...064546581.html


    Irish premier Leo Varadkar has given his support to a three-month Brexit extension after MPs blocked Boris Johnson’s planned timetable for his Brexit deal.

    Mr Varadkar, an influential voice among EU leaders, confirmed his support after EU Council President Donald Tusk recommended an extension.

    A statement from the Irish government said: “The Taoiseach confirmed his support for President Tusk’s proposal to grant the request for an extension which was sought by the UK.

    “They noted that it would still be possible for the UK to leave before January 31st 2020 if the Withdrawal Agreement has been ratified in advance of that date.”

    Yesterday Boris Johnson vowed to seek a general election after Parliament voted against his plan to rush his Brexit deal through.

    The Prime Minister is hoping that the Commons finally votes for an election after the EU suggested it would offer a three-month ‘flextension’ which would allow Brexit to happen as soon as the deal is approved.

    Labour signalled this morning that they would vote for an election if an extension is granted.

    Shadow justice secretary Richard Burgon added to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We’re not in the business of leaving the Conservatives in power.”

    There was anger in Downing Street after MPs rejected Mr Johnson's plan to push through the legislation approving his deal with the EU in just three days by 322 votes to 308.

    The development makes Mr Johnson's promise to take Britain out of the EU by October 31 "come what may" all but impossible to fulfil and means Brexit could be delayed until next year.
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  13. Link to Post #1047
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    No surprises today:

    Remainers deny democracy


    Here is a link to the article mentioned by WE GOT A PROBLEM, from the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...onstitutional/

    The Letwin amendment is unconstitutional

    VERNON BOGDANOR
    19 OCTOBER 2019 • 5:00PM

    The Letwin amendment is just the latest procedural move by MPs claiming to respect the outcome of the referendum who are, in reality, as Frank Field told the Commons, Remainers in Brexiteers’ clothing.

    The amendment withholds parliamentary approval for the deal until the legislation needed to implement it has been passed by the Commons. It triggers the provision in the Benn Act requiring Boris Johnson to seek an extension to Brexit beyond 31 October.


    ...

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Thanks for all the information you bring to the thread YoYoYo.
    Chris
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  17. Link to Post #1049
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I guess but I have to comment your approval on behalf of the thread is somewhat unwarranted. Just like yourself, and everyone else on the forum I feel a compulsion to post, but in truth, myself, I don't enjoy it. What's wrong with hiding away?.This thread needs the bias I bring to balance it out, or at least that's my compulsion. There are things that could stop me, but it's not myself so far


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I have to confess that my natural optimism may have been getting in the way of what I am trying to say about Brexit. At the end of his life (he died in 1961), CG Jung was extremely pessimistic and thought that humans’ inability to understand their own psyche (no external enemies involved) would lead before very long to catastrophe. I would now say that the Brexit saga – especially when seen as an attempt to save us from the New World Order – is one of many signs that as a psychiatric case, humankind generally is indeed approaching the stage where the patient is committing severe self-harm and possibly beyond help. Dreams sometimes come true after a lot of hard work from high achievers. Unfortunately the same goes for nightmares. A great deal of effort has been put into making this NWO bird fly, so it may well be a nightmare come true or coming true. Seen in these terms, the monster is fuelling both sides of this argument and cannot lose.

    When you keep going round in circles while slipping downwards, topologically speaking you are in a maelstrom. There is a tale by Edgar Allan Poe which describes how a maelstrom will destroy good people along with the bad, and the only way to survive is to stay calm and collected, watch what is happening, and then JUMP SHIP. This is basically what Greybeard for one has been doing on this thread.


    If all this leads to the near total demise of humankind, it would not be the first time, we are told. But since it might not be the last time either, we need to understand what useful lessons we are to take away from this hugely traumatic experience. From my limited perspective, the point to note would concern the partial amnesia of the whole human experience. Souls come to Earth having forgotten who and what they are: that is a basic rule of the game; apparently things have gotten so bad that this rule is currently being broken, or so we are told by people like Dolores Cannon. However the amnesia is only partial, because bodies are born on Earth that appear to recall their past traumas all too well, from the smallest of accidents to those of the greatest end-of-the-world magnitude; this is what we mean by karma, except that karma is the individual guilt-ridden consequence of the collective misfortunes arising purely from humankind’s inability to forget the past and understand their own psyche.

    So the notion of remembering who we are is only half of the story. The other half is that we need to forget where we physically come from. It may be that the Earth herself is not recovering properly from successive ecological batterings, and the only remedy for her would be to stop the human experiment here for the foreseeable future. It may be that the Earth herself has been caught up in all the madness and is too sick to stop… To take this broader view is metaphorically “jumping ship”, beyond optimism and pessimism. Some of the implications of this are explored in City, a collection of SF short stories by Clifford D Simak. 
    https://www.blackgate.com/2017/06/06...fford-d-simak/


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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Yes araucaria--its a no win situation.
    The NWO has deliberately set up an event to cause maximum, friction-separation, polarity--discontent.
    Boris has lied to DUP about the agreement.



    Johnson pulling out of appearance before senior MPs ‘unacceptable ‘
    PA Media: UK News By Catherine Wylie and Gavin Cordon, PA,PA Media: UK News


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/johnson-pu...065039142.html


    The Prime Minister’s decision to pull out of an appearance before senior MPs with less than 24 hours’ notice has been described as “extraordinary”.

    Boris Johnson had been due to face questioning by the Commons Liaison Committee – made up of select committee chairmen – at Westminster on Thursday.

    But in a handwritten note to the chairwoman, Sarah Wollaston, he asked for a new date to be arranged for “five or six months” on from when he became Prime Minister.

    Dr Wollaston said the public would have to “draw their own conclusions” on whether he refused because he is running scared.


    She told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “This is the only select committee that can call the Prime Minister, and this is now the third time that he’s cancelled, despite having given a clear reassurance during the leadership campaign that he would come at an early opportunity.

    “So I think that’s the point here. He knows that he’s been Prime Minister for months now, he’s only had two appearances at Prime Minister’s Questions, and again not facing this kind of detailed scrutiny, I don’t think it’s good enough, really.”

    Asked if she thinks Mr Johnson is “scared”, she said: “I think people will have to draw their own conclusions, but I do think it’s extraordinary to have now cancelled on three occasions, and last time he cancelled he submitted himself to 14 minutes of Facebook live questions with pre-submitted questions.”

    When it was put to Dr Wollaston that Mr Johnson has delivered long statements and taken a lot of questions lately, she said “the difference is you can bat off a one-off question”, and being subjected to “detailed questioning and follow-up” is a different matter.
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  23. Link to Post #1052
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Boris Johnson Should Come Clean on His Brexit Deal

    The costs could be enormous. The public needs an honest accounting — and another vote.

    By Editorial Board

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...low-referendum



    The U.K. Parliament has approved, in principle, Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s exit deal with the European Union, but has refused to let him rush it into law. The question is where to go from here.

    An election could be in the offing — or, because calling one would require the parliamentary majority that Johnson lacks, maybe not. Even if the bill survives lawmakers’ scrutiny and eventually passes, Johnson would face grueling new talks with the EU about the future trading relationship.

    One certainty is that Britain will need more time. To an exasperated electorate, it may seem like the 1,217 days since the referendum has been time enough to work things out. But trade deals with the EU typically take years to complete (seven in Canada’s case); Johnson plans to have this one concluded and ratified in just 14 months. That simply won’t happen. Without a longer so-called transition period, another no-deal exit will loom. Johnson’s deal, if it moves forward, should be amended to allow more time for these further talks.

    More important, it should also be amended to put Britain’s choice about its future in Europe back to voters in a second referendum. Granted, this would delay matters further. But it would confer democratic legitimacy on the course Johnson has set, give voters clarity that the first ballot lacked, and ease the negotiating process to follow.

    The government, for its part, needs to be more transparent about exactly what its intentions are. Johnson is proposing a decidedly hard form of Brexit: He plans to leave the EU’s customs union and diverge from its single-market regulations, replacing a once seamless economic relationship with a bare-bones free-trade deal. Even done wisely, this process would add significant barriers to trade; done rashly, it could be a disaster for businesses.

    In any event, the public deserves an honest accounting. A government analysis of the deal published this week is silent on just about every relevant expense, and no wonder: Even on optimistic assumptions, the added costs of new restrictions on trade with Europe could be immense — to say nothing of the complex system of checks and rebates that Johnson proposes for Northern Ireland. One recent analysis suggests that the total hit to public finances could exceed $60 billion a year, with all the added austerity that implies.

    Less tangible costs will also need to be confronted head-on. The new trade system for Northern Ireland, for instance, may pose grave political risks. By ensuring that Great Britain and Northern Ireland diverge in key respects, it has left unionists feeling defensive, betrayed or worse. By allowing a simple majority to determine if the North exits the arrangement, it has undermined the principle of cross-community consent that has helped keep the peace there for more than 20 years.

    The full consequences of these momentous decisions are anyone’s guess. But one thing is clear: Johnson’s insistence that the agreement will simply “get Brexit done” couldn’t be further from the truth. Brexit may never be done. If a deal passed Parliament tomorrow, it could entail years more of tortured negotiation, unhappy trade-offs, rising complexity, worsening friction and pervasive uncertainty, with no particular end date in sight.

    Voters may yet judge that all this is worth it for the added sovereignty that Johnson’s deal notionally affords. But the choice should be theirs.
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  25. Link to Post #1053
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Boris Johnson To Ask MPs For Snap General Election On December 12
    [HuffPost UK]
    Ned Simons
    HuffPost UK24 October 2019

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-john...c=bell-brknews

    Boris Johnson will ask MPs to allow him to hold a snap general election on December 12.

    The prime minister said on Thursday he would give parliament more time to debate his Brexit deal, on the condition it voted in favour of an election before Christmas.

    “The way to get this done, the way to get Brexit done, is, I think, to be reasonable with parliament and say if they genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal they can have it but they have to agree to a general election on December 12,” he told broadcasters.

    The government is expected to table a motion under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act on Monday.

    To force an election via that route, the PM needs to win the votes of two-thirds of MPs.

    His previous two attempts to hold an election were thwarted after Jeremy Corbyn ordered Labour MPs to block it.

    Make sense of politics. Sign up to the Waugh Zone and get the political day in a nutshell.

    The Labour leader has said he will only vote for an election once the EU has offered an extension to Article 50, removing the threat of a no-deal Brexit on October 31.

    EU leaders are expected to grant a delay, but have yet to announce how long will be given.

    In a letter to Corbyn, Johnson said parliament had “refused to take decisions” after MPs derailed his attempt to push his Brexit deal through by the end of this week.

    “It cannot refuse to let the voters replace it with a new parliament that can make decisions,” he said.

    “Prolonging this paralysis into 2020 would have dangerous consequences for businesses, jobs and for basic confidence in democratic institutions, already badly damaged by the behaviour of parliament since the referendum. Parliament cannot continue to hold the country hostage.

    “You have repeatedly said that once the EU accepts parliament’s request for a delay until 31 January, then you would immediately support an election.

    He added: “I assume this remains your position and therefore you will support an election next week so the voters can replace this broken parliament.”

    Corbyn has yet to respond to the PM’s election demand. But Momentum, the grassroots campaign group which propelled him to the Labour leadership, said: “Bring it on.”
    Related...
    Last edited by greybeard; 24th October 2019 at 16:49.
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  27. Link to Post #1054
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I do hope Boris gets his way and there is a General Election and one way or another, I hope it is not a hung Parliament --or Im afraid we might get more of the same.

    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    David Miliband: Brexit is wrecking British democracy
    [The Guardian]
    Patrick Wintour
    The Guardian24 October 2019

    Brexit has taken a wrecking ball to British democracy, with ministers counting on an outdated mandate to justify their decisions and the main parties in danger of turning into sects, former foreign secretary David Miliband has claimed.

    In a lecture on Thursday night, Miliband cited the refusal of the chancellor, Sajid Javid, to produce an economic impact assessment of Boris Johnson’s deal on the grounds that it must be passed because it is “good for the fabric of our democracy”.

    He warned that Javid and his colleagues have been reduced to one central argument that “Britain must press ahead with Brexit whatever the economic or political cost, because the danger to democratic health and confidence will be so great if we do not”.

    Related: Boris Johnson to ask MPs to back election on 12 December

    In the Martin Gilbert lecture, Miliband said: “It cannot be more democratic to plough on with a version of Brexit that was never presented to the public in 2016 than to consult them on whether they want to go ahead with this plan.”

    He added: “The risks to democratic health of no further consultation are greater than allowing the public to decide, especially so when the plan does not represent the end of Brexit but in fact is only the beginning.

    “If we leave the EU we will be ‘doing Brexit’, negotiating the consequences of Brexit, making up for Brexit, filling in the gaps left by Brexit, for at least the duration of the next parliament and most likely well beyond.”

    And he said that he shudders “at what those convinced that Brexit can be ‘done’ this week will come to think when they realise it is not”.

    On the same night that Boris Johnson that he would seek a general election on 12 December, Miliband argued that an election would be the wrong vehicle to settle the issue created by the 2016 referendum, an event he described as “a rush job with no explanation of what Brexit meant”.

    Related: In Moscow, Riyadh and Washington, this is the age of the shameless lie

    He argued that one reason many fear an election is because “an early 20th-century class-based structure is struggling to cope with 21st-century demands of identity politics pressed on it by Brexit.

    “The party system is based on the idea that broad-church parties can represent coalitions of interest,” he said. “But when churches become sects, the system breaks down. The danger is now staring us in the face. It is one reason why many people fear the next election.”

    He argued that events had also shown that British democracy itself needs a reboot. The attempt to prorogue parliament was a “near-miss event” for our democracy that should serve as a teachable moment, he said. Changes that should follow included the adoption of citizens assemblies, electoral reform, and a written constitution.
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  31. Link to Post #1056
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Thanks for all this info/disinfo - who know’s?
    Sick to death of Brexit - the deliberate death of a nation kicking against the pricks.

    Thanks Chris for all your updates, what a giant farce this is turning out to be, a laughing stock that whoever challenges the globalists will be trashed. I still live in hope that common sense will prevail.
    The love you withhold is the pain that you carry
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Funny the remainer media still claiming the leave side are the lairs in the room. So many of the ambitions of the EU Commission were strongly denied beforehand.

    The EU commission want territory under their rule, their flag, their army, their national anthem. Look at the EU's duplicitous behaviour about the British armed forces (see this post in this thread for more info.). Everything in that list but the flag were strongly refuted beforehand.

    Turns out it was remain who didn't know what they were voting for.

    This post is a big long old mess! I hope you enjoy


    Two videos from Jeff Taylor 7 days to Brexit day

    Where Now With Brexit?!

    With a decision by the EU27 Council members on an Article 50 extension expected by the end of play tomorrow, what is likely to happen next?






    President Macron holds out for a short Brexit extension

    It looks like President Macron of France wants the UK to have a very short Article 50 extension so as to concentrate parliament's mind on securing the Boris Johnson Brexit treaty.



    Those who want a general election, well......

    I don't know if you noticed, but democracy has been brazenly snubbed recently.

    General election denied time after time after time. The SNP are wind-bag election cowards, same as Labour and Lib Dems. They're not fit for opposition.

    I bet they will continue to deny a general election, pretending they are lords of the people instead of representatives. Mark my words but I hope I am wrong. I strongly recommend you treat your MP as if they are YOUR representative, not your lord and master because otherwise they get confused.

    Here's Rees-Mogg with some words that are far too polite imho, but I have a lot to learn about such things!
    J. Rees-Mogg savages Jeremy Corbyn as he storms off from Commons seat: 'Running away from election!'

    Labour opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn stood up to leave the Commons just as Jacob Rees-Mogg accused him of running away after Boris Johnson said he will give MPs more time to debate his Brexit deal if they agree to an election.



    Off topic but here is Jacob Rees-Mogg meets Ali-G on YouTube. It's awkward but funny
    Last edited by YoYoYo; 24th October 2019 at 23:09.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I tend to agree with what David Miliband said in the post above.
    To my mind true democracy is being able to see both sides of the arguments presented and then being able to choose.
    Fort his to work both sides should present truthfully and fairly.--thats has no happened.

    People are not getting what they thought they were voting for.

    Even if exit is the way to go it, was originally based on a selling campaign orchestrate by the PM's advisor.
    Gross exaggeration of the benefits of leaving.

    The current Chancellor has not given a costing of Brexit thats a red light to me.
    Is Yellowhammer acurate?

    Boris denied a committee their legal right to question him-several times.

    The NWO will be delighted--people have fallen into a trap --taking sides and fighting.
    Divide and conquer.
    You can take a side--vote without fighting about it.

    The first vote was on a false premise--the sell Brexit campaign left the truth at home according to David Cameron and others--hedge fund inverstor who supported Boris and funded the campaign in part, made a very big fortune out of the result--a killing.
    These are facts not lies.
    Follow the money.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 25th October 2019 at 17:13.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    EU president Juncker says Boris Johnson lied during Brexit referendum
    The Independent Jon Stone,The Independent
    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/eu-preside...161600102.html

    Jean-Claude Juncker has accused Boris Johnson of spreading “lies” during the Brexit referendum campaign, in his most strongly worded attack on the prime minister yet.

    Speaking on Thursday evening the European Commission president said he “should have intervened” in the campaign to point out “bulls***” and falsehoods spread by “Boris Johnson and others”.

    “They were saying things, some of them – lying. Telling the people things which have nothing to do with our day by day reality,” he told an audience at a think tank in Brussels.

    “David Cameron asked me not to intervene in the referendum campaign because he said the European Commission is even less popular on the islands than on the continent ... That was a major mistake: I should have intervened, because nobody was denying, contesting the lies Boris Johnson and others were spreading around.”

    But the commission president denied that it was the EU’s fault that the campaign had been lost, instead pointing the finger at the British press, in which the prime minister once worked as a Brussels correspondent.

    “If for 46 years you are told day after day, and you are reading in your papers, that the place of the British is not really in Europe, but that they are there for economic and internal market reasons, and all the rest – it’s nonsense, bulls***, as they are saying in the European parliament – don’t be surprised if voters are asked to give their impression, some of them, a small majority but nevertheless a clear majority, is voting like a majority of the British sovereign people is voting,” he said.

    Mr Juncker is not the first EU leader to lambast Leave campaigners in the strongest terms. In March this year Emmanuel Macron said Brexiteers were “anger-mongers backed by fake news” whose “lies and irresponsibility” had thrown Europe into danger.

    Nobody was denying, contesting the lies Boris Johnson and others were spreading around

    Jean-Claude Juncker, European Commission president

    But last week the French president, who had stopped short of naming Mr Johnson in his earlier tirade, claimed he had not been taking about the prime minister, telling journalists at an EU summit: “I never described Boris Johnson” as such.

    European Council president Donald Tusk also angered Brexiteers after he said in February that there was a ”special place in hell” for “those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan” of how to carry it out successfully.

    During the same think tank speech, Mr Juncker, who is due to leave office at the end of the month, said: “Brexit could have brought the house down, acted as a catalyst for others, split Europe”. He added: “But it did not. Unity has prevailed. And one should not underestimate how many conversations and encouragements this took me and Michel Barnier. European resilience and strength has shone through.”

    He added that Brexit was “a shame” and would not serve the interests of either the UK or EU.

    The president’s comments show the strength of feeling about Brexit that still exists on the continent, with the decision bewildering many of Britain’s allies.

    Last week the EU struck a new deal with Mr Johnson that would put a customs border down the Irish Sea and give Stormont a unilateral exit clause from arrangements to prevent a hard border. The British government now faces a long slog to get the plan through parliament, with EU ambassadors set to meet on Friday to decide how long an extension might be needed for the UK to ratify the agreement.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Leave and Remain voters say violence against MPs and serious injuries to public ‘price worth paying’ to get favoured Brexit outcome
    [The Independent]
    Benjamin Kentish
    The Independent24 October 2019

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/leave-rema...132900541.html

    Voters on both sides of the Brexit divide believe that violence against MPs and members of the public is a “price worth paying” to secure their favoured outcome, a new study has found.

    A majority of both Leave and Remain voters would be happy to accept attacks on politicians and violent protests in which members of the public are badly injured if it meant they got Brexit outcome they want, according to a new polls.

    Researchers said they were “genuinely shocked” by the findings, which come amid concerns about threats against MPs.

    The YouGov surveys found that 71 per cent of Leave voters in England, 60 per cent in Scotland and 70 per cent in Wales think violence against MPs would be a ”price worth paying” to deliver Brexit.

    The figures are only slightly lower for Remain supporters, with 58 per cent of pro-EU voters in England, 53 per cent in Scotland and 56 per cent in Wales saying that politicians being attacked would be worth it Britain remained in the EU.

    Voters would also be happy to accept members of the public being badly injured in protests if it meant they got their way on Brexit.

    Among Leave voters, 69 per cent in England, 62 per cent in Scotland and 70 per cent in Wales think civilians being hurt would be a “price worth paying” for Brexit.

    While Remain voters are slightly less willing to accept violence, 57 per cent in England, 56 per cent in Scotland and 57 per cent in Wales would still rather people were badly injured than Britain left the EU.

    Bizarrely, around one in 20 voters said they wanted civilians to be injured in protests regardless of their views on Brexit.

    The polls were conducted as part of the Future of England survey, which is carried out annually by academics at Cardiff University and the University of Edinburgh.

    They also revealed a widespread belief that Brexit will trigger the break up of the UK. Fifty-two per cent of voters in England, 61 per cent in Scotland and 47 per cent in Wales think this is a likely outcome.​

    However, a majority of both Leave and Remain voters in all three nations polled believe that the break-up of the country would be worth it to get the Brexit outcome they want.

    A majority of voters in all three nations also think Brexit will make the UK “substantially poorer”, although at least three-quarters of Leave voters in all three nations think it would be worth it to leave the EU.

    Professor Ailsa Henderson of the University of Edinburgh, co-director of the study, said: “These findings demonstrate that Brexit is putting the union under considerable strain regardless of whether we stay or go. Both sides are prepared to fundamentally rewrite the rules of politics as we know it to get what they want. Staying in the EU will likely decrease faith in the union. Brexit could well change its borders.

    “Individuals might profess an attachment to the union, but Brexit has revealed most in Britain to be ambivalent unionists who now see it as expendable to get their own way on Brexit. Because this holds for both Leave and Remain voters, it confirms just how much the Brexit debate has polarised the electorates in Britain. These findings show that polarisation is reshaping how we argue with one another, and what we argue about, but could reshape the union as well.”

    Her co-director, Professor Richard Wyn Jones of Cardiff University, added: “It’s not often that one finds oneself shaken by research findings, but in this case it’s hard to not be genuinely shocked – not only by the fact that so many think that violence is a likely consequence of Brexit, but that so many on either side of the Brexit divide seem to think that such events might be ‘worth it’ in order to secure their preferred outcome.

    “Given that we appear to be on the brink of another general election in which further polarisation could be a deliberate campaign strategy for some parties, these findings should give all of us pause for thought and underline the importance of responsible and measured debate.”

    YouGov surveyed 1,594 people in England, 1,503 in Wales and 1,006 in Scotland between 27 September and 3 October.


    "This why Im saying that The NWO will be delighted at what they have brought about.

    Just possibly-- if the leave campaign had not exaggerated the benefits and had won the remainders would have accepted this--
    Anything based an falsehood is bound to fail ultimately.
    Truth--whatever that is--- will out."
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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