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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    BBC tells Tories to take down Facebook ad featuring its presenters
    The Guardian Jim Waterson,


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/bbc-tells-...192557263.html

    BBC tells Tories to take down Facebook ad featuring its presenters. Laura Kuenssberg and Huw Edwards footage could damage perception of impartiality, says corporation

    The BBC is demanding the Conservatives take down Facebook adverts featuring footage of its journalists Laura Kuenssberg and Huw Edwards, arguing that their inclusion could damage perceptions of the corporation’s impartiality.

    The paid-for advert uses footage of the BBC’s political editor and the News at Ten host to argue that chaotic debates over Brexit can be avoided if people vote Conservative.

    The short clip begins with Kuenssberg saying the words “pointless delay to Brexit”, in footage taken from an archive news broadcast. Although the clip gives the impression it was the BBC political editor delivering that judgment, it appears she was actually quoting Boris Johnson’s comments from September when he rejected a further extension to article 50.

    Related: Tories threaten Channel 4 after ice sculpture takes PM's place in debate

    Her appearance is followed by footage of Edwards – who will host the BBC’s election night coverage – intoning that there will be “another Brexit delay”, followed by shaky footage of opposition leaders accompanied by threatening music.

    The BBC said its footage had been used without permission and asked the Conservatives to stop using the material in this manner. “This is a completely unacceptable use of BBC content which distorts our output and which could damage perceptions of our impartiality. We are asking the Conservatives to remove these adverts,” it said.

    In common with other intentionally provocative stunts pulled by the Conservatives during this campaign, such as rebranding their press office Twitter account as a fact checker, it is possible the party will welcome any press coverage that focuses attention on its message.

    The advert had been running for 24 hours on both Facebook and its sister site Instagram by the time of the BBC’s complaint. In this time it had been seen by around a 100,000 people and it remains live. The advert was targeted at older male voters, although it is possible the Conservatives intended to put more money behind it to reach a wider audience.

    My thoughts are that if you have to be that devious to win an election then you are not for the people---you have an agenda beyond that which is obvious and stated.
    Why resort to trickery if what you represent can stand on its own merit?
    This applies to major parties to a greater or lesser degree,
    Look beyond the stated.
    The truth lies in patterns.
    The history
    The means--the ways of presenting ones case.
    The money behind.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


    Ridicule and disbelief as Boris Johnson insists he's never told a single lie in his whole political
    career
    The Independent Ashley Cowburn,

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/ridicule-d...091300936.html

    Boris Johnson has prompted widespread ridicule after claiming he has never told a lie during his political career in a televised interview.

    Appearing on ITV, the prime minister was asked whether he could look the presenter “in the eye” and say he had never lied in his career – spanning back to 2001 when he was first elected as an MP.

    “Absolutely not, absolutely not,” Mr Johnson replied. “I have never tried to deceive the public and I’ve always tried to be absolutely frank.”

    Pressed again, he continued: “I may have got things wrong, I may have been mistaken, but I’ve never tried to deceive people about the way I see things.”

    Mr Johnson later added: “I am not going to pretend that in my political career I have not said or done things that have caused offence. I’ve made mistakes, I’ve certainly made mistakes."

    Seizing on his remarks, the Liberal Democrat leader made a reference to the decision of the former Tory leader Michael Howard to sack Mr Johnson from his frontbench in 2004 after lying over an extramarital affair.

    Mr Johnson had dismissed the allegations about his private life at the time as “an inverted pyramid of piffle”, before further evidence proving the claims emerged.

    Ridiculing the prime minister, she said: “He was sacked twice for lying. So when he says he has never lied, he’s literally lying.”

    Mr Johnson’s decision to duck a leaders’ debate on climate change on Thursday evening was also criticised by Labour’s national campaign coordinator, Andrew Gwynee, who said: “Boris Johnson has been hiding from scrutiny to avoid being held to account for a decade of Conservative austerity and his litany of lies, failure and bigotry.”

    In a series of questions put to Mr Johnson, Labour also demanded whether he had “only lied to the Queen once” over his decision to unlawfully prorogue parliament earlier this year.

    The Tory leader was also heavily criticised during the EU referendum campaign and faced accusations of deceiving the public over Vote Leave’s infamous claim to “take back control of roughly £350 million per week” after Brexit.

    The UK Statistics Authority said it was a “clear misuse of official statistics”, and the fact-checking charity, Full Fact, added: “We have never paid the EU £350m a week and we have never owed the EU £350m a week. After we leave the EU, that means we cannot take back control of £350m a week."
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  5. Link to Post #1163
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Boris Johnson is about to destroy our democracy – just because he wants to get back at me
    The Independent Gina Miller,

    Parliament is the “people” because the people are represented by those they vote for in general elections.
    Sorry Chris, at that point, after spitting out my tea in gales of laughter, I had to stop reading. Newspapers today have only one useful function. As a liner for drawers.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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  7. Link to Post #1164
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Well there is an amusement factor Star.
    Are people that stupid to be conned into believing all they read?
    Boris Dad had just said that people are illiterate.
    Wont bother posting the quote which prompted the response that his son did not understand the word liar.
    And on it goes
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 29th November 2019 at 17:36.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Brexit & the UK General election 12 Dec

    Guys,

    Here is my latest video summarising where we appear to stand with regard to Brexit and the upcoming UK election. In my view Nigel Farage has screwed up by standing down 300 of his MPs in the upcoming general election. He needed to have gone forwards to help create a hung parliament. Siding with Boris's EU Treaty is a mistake:

    Visit my website Occult Physics

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    It is good to see Longjohn and ICHingUChing expanding on points I made earlier in the thread.
    But mention of Facebook gives me a segue to a real eye-opener seen only yesterday, and which goes a long way to explaining the rationale behind all the irrationality of the Brexit nonsense whereby people vote against their own personal interests. Below is a short (15 min.) Ted talk given by an Observer reporter, telling of Facebook fear-based advertising targeting specific individuals on the basis of their personal input. If you have not been targeted you will never know about it, and there is subsequently no incriminating evidence: all that remains of this perfect crime is the effect it has on public “debate”. And of course people like me who don’t even use Facebook are in danger of being left completely in the dark.

    Fear is an animal-based instinct that has constantly to be overridden as new situations arise. Compared with cavemen, modern man has relatively little to be afraid about. Of course we do hugely dangerous things like driving cars and crossing roads, but our rational mind has made such things on the whole pretty safe through orderly conduct. On reflection, even animal prey for the most part live a fairly peaceful life, keeping their predators at a safe distance most of the time. And we know how a parent can ruin their child’s education by fear-based interference when the child is learning to stand on its own two feet. Hence fear becomes a cultural feature to be passed on, instead of a basic instinct that evolves over time. It is not a game being played by powerful people; it is a potentially fatal weakness being transmitted like a virus – literally “gone viral”.





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  13. Link to Post #1167
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    The UK election is all tied up with this now - Boris has obviously been advised not to be interviewed too much, scrutiny is not a good thing for him! He ducked out of the leader’s debate on climate and heavy duty interviewers are kept at bay, at least until the postal vote deadline has passed. He has a continual smirk on his face as if he knows something we don’t. Maybe his ticket off planet while we all brace ourselves for disaster? He just laughs off the exposure because they get away with murder and always have. The judiciary as well as Parliament is rotten to the core.

    Under the Freedom of Information Act, Labour were able to get documents relating to the Tory secret negotiations with the US and the entire thing is redacted! Laughable if it wasn’t so disturbing. Like witholding the Russia report, with no explanation, that likely reveals the enormous funding Tories receive from Russian oligarchs.

    I’m very glad to see the respectful and interesting discussion here and trying to keep up. Scanner sends me on a journey into Tsarion’s research and to the ‘bigger picture’. That has to have a thread of it’s own and surely does here, if I ever find the time to look further. It’s not a complete picture though and for me, raises as many questions as it answers.

    Longjohn and Greybeard you seem to be in favour of the EU, I respect any argument that presents what's good about it. But do you remember the UK before the EU?’. I travelled and worked overseas extensively in my youth and not having an EU didn’t make much difference to me then. In fact, the very different economic and cultural differences of other countries was far more interesting than the homogenous blob that they’re trying to make of Europe now. The EU is widely despised, not just in UK, and it’s not the common market, not the customs union, but the EU government and bank. Ask Greeks how they feel about it, they don't even own their country any more. Or Italians. The Spanish, in my experience, have utter contempt and simply ignore a whole bundle of 'EU Directives'. They're not as 'law abiding' as we meek little sheep in UK, do as we're told, follow the programming. Millions may protest but it's still business as directed.

    The legislation that is passed in Brussels goes mostly unnoticed by the public until it affects them directly. I was unable to upload the photo of it, but here are a couple of comments on a recent newspaper article about the floods.

    "People of Yorkshire left to rot in the water absolute disgraceful Conservatives government, a week it nearly took to get some help and even then it was only when Jeremy Corbyn Labour had to ask for cobra and flood money for Yorkshire areas, people in Yorkshire know who is genuine and who is not"

    "Perhaps EVERYONE should blame Tony Blair and the EU directives. The European Union banned the dredging of water courses years ago, but no one told us so and Tony Blair's Government meekly accept it. THIS is what no one wants you to know".

    EU policies have an agenda most of us know nothing about. I’d like to believe it is all in the interests of the people, but I don’t. I do not agree that dissatisfaction with it was initiated by Farage and Johnson, many people were very sick of taking orders from a distant body of bureaucrats/plutocrats they didn’t feel they’d elected, impacted in thousands of little ways and raising their eyebrows in despair at the explanations of ‘EU directives’. They were ripe for it when the fascist right started rattling their cages. Another image I was unable to upload is of the letter from the Master of Dulwich College denouncing schoolboy Farage for his fascist views and appalling behaviour marching through a Sussex village, with others, shouting Hitler youth songs. He strongly objected to him being put forward as a prefect. It's out there on the net if you're interested. I wish these kinds of characters only appeared in comics and novels.

    Are we going to have any more accountability from TPB outside of the EU? probably not, but people feel they will, maybe with a Labour government that now seems to be peopled by traditional ‘socialists’ as the Blairites have been weeded out, sacked or resigned.

    Obviously a common market is a good idea, as is the ability to travel and work anywhere in Europe without barriers. Corbyn seems to be offering a sensible solution, let everyone see the deal (that includes a common market) then vote Leave or Remain from an informed position.

    I was favouring Labour even before I heard this week that he plans to compensate my generation of women that got badly shafted by government with the changes to state pension age. This probably is only of interest to women like me, but we were really bludgeoned after a lifetime of paying contributions into a government scheme, they suddenly moved the goalposts and we were told we wouldn’t be retiring at 60 after all, but at 66/67. (Russian women retire at 50). We didn’t learn of this until years after the legislation incidentally. Gutted would be putting it mildly. Every time I thought about it over recent years I was brought to tears with frustration and impotence against a ruling class that seems to hate us and want us slaving until death. 82k+ women have died pensionless so far as a result of this and I wouldn’t hazard a guess at the number of suicides.

    I raise this because, this promise by Labour must raise the hopes of millions of women who endured this betrayal after a lifetime of struggle and buoyed just before Christmas at the prospect that the slog will be over and we will be free. (ish) So the cynic in me is seeing that the propoganda and fascism will win and there will be no change, business as usual and then how much deeper will the depression go? I have no doubt this will take out thousands more women. The level of hatred for women in society seems to be intensifying daily, but I guess that’s for another thread. The Eves are fundamentally despised eh Scanner? So I guess I’m saying that even the hope offered by Labour is just controlled opposition, we’re all being played all the time and not even the smartest of us seem to know what’s really going on.

    I’d like to hear your opinions on this question in particular. Why were we given a referendum on Europe in the first place? As you say Longjohn these people aren’t stupid, they must have known the mood of the country, was it all faux surprise at the outcome and everything going as planned? Or, can we, the people, really effect any honest change towards an egalatarian society?

    Meanwhile, as the UK election circus plays on, Muslim cells all across the world multiply and one is put in mind of the black hooded hordes invading Europe that Nostradamus spoke of. I’m not racist in any way and believe in freedom of thought, religion, sexuality, whatever, so long as it harm no other. But I really don’t want to find myself in the Handmaid’s Tale. There is so much playing out before our eyes regardless of what politicians say. Assange and Snowden are seen as the bad guys while Trump, Farage and Johnson are portrayed as heroes. The sexualisation of children, the trans agenda, that again, attacks and marginalises women, but I guess I’ve gone on long enough. Apologies, I really don’t have answers, just wanted to get into the debate and vent a bit!.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Thank you Phoenix1304 for your post and question re referendum.
    I cant really see a positive reason for the referendum
    There was some unrest provoked by all the anti Europen rule media reports.
    There was after the referendum Boris flashing a pre packed fish saying look what the euro rules have done---then it turned out it was UK rules--silence on that.
    So a lot of rules coming from Eu was fo the protection of workers--Tory business not too keen on worker protection.Health and safety has cost implication for business--not popular.
    So people were fed misleading information regarding the EU.

    I would be quite happy if we left with a good deal---what I am against is the lying.
    A lot of good would happen if we left-- a lot of good will happen if we remain.
    The British are survivers
    If we leave without a deal--still possible or leave under current one offered then Nicola Sturgeon will be laughing all the way to Scottish independence--followed by Wales and Northern Ireland perhaps
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  17. Link to Post #1169
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    In its election coverage, the BBC has let down the people who believe in it
    The Guardian Peter Oborne,
    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/election-c...055913313.html


    In its election coverage, the BBC has let down the people who believe in it. The corporation, admired around the world, has been behaving in a way that favours the Tories

    Boris Johnson continues to get away with it. The onslaught of lies has become a tsunami in the few weeks since I launched a website to keep track of Johnson’s falsehoods, with dozens more waiting to be added to the list.

    A particularly distasteful batch concerns his use of the London Bridge terror attack as a campaign tool, in defiance of the wishes of the father of one of the victims. On the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show on Sunday he wheeled out four or five more, including the daft claim that Jeremy Corbyn will disband MI5, and another that Labour was responsible for the London Bridge attacker’s early release.

    Marr barely managed to confront these lies, and it’s noteworthy that the BBC only allowed the prime minister on the air because, after the attack, “it was in the public interest”. Johnson continues to dodge an interview with Andrew Neil, who has eviscerated Nicola Sturgeon and Corbyn.


    Meanwhile, Johnson has scarcely been interrogated about the biggest lie of all. It lurks there in plain sight: the Tory slogan “Get Brexit Done”. The nonsensical Conservative position that the country will leave the EU on 31 January – and that the transition period will end in December 2020 – has hardly been scrutinised.

    More bigoted statements emerge from Johnson’s press clippings – such as his claim in 1995 that the children of single mothers were “ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate”. Yet he continues to brush off complaints, as he did, again on The Andrew Marr Show, with his offensive comparison between Muslim women and bank robbers. No previous prime minister or party leader would have survived. But Johnson doesn’t merely survive. He flourishes. How?

    Partly it’s because he combines membership of the traditional British establishment with celebrity status among the contemporary media elite: Eton, Oxford, the Bullingdon Club, the Conservative party, the Spectator, and flashier parts of the City. He knows what to say and who to say it to.

    Britain’s three most powerful newspaper groups (the Telegraph, the Murdoch press and Associated Newspapers) fervently support the Conservative party while being dedicated to the destruction of Corbyn. It is particularly striking that the Times, the voice of Britain’s professional class, has been so stridently in favour of Johnson.

    Yet the written press have always tended to support Conservatives. In this election, though, they have an unusual ally – the BBC. The British Broadcasting Corporation is bound by rigorous rules of impartiality that do not apply to newspapers – one reason the organisation has often been unjustly accused by those very same newspapers of being biased towards the left. In the 2019 general election, however, the BBC has been behaving in a way that favours the Tories.

    After a dishevelled Johnson made a mess of placing a red wreath at the Cenotaph, ahead of the silence on Remembrance Sunday, BBC Breakfast showed footage of a much smarter Johnson placing a green wreath: footage dating back to 2016, when Johnson was foreign secretary. The corporation insisted the clip was used in error.

    Then there was the rather more serious case when, for its main news broadcast, the BBC edited a clip to cut out the audience laughter at the prime minister during the party leaders’ Question Time, after he was asked whether he believed it was important to tell the truth. The edited clip showed only applause.

    As Lady Bracknell said: “To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune, to lose both looks like carelessness.” There has, however, been a series of such misfortunes – all of them errors, perhaps, but all contributing to the widespread impression that the BBC is putting its thumb on the scale for the government.

    In October Jill Rutter, a senior research fellow at The UK in a Changing Europe, highlighted the way in which many senior journalists, including the BBC’s political editor, Laura Kuenssberg, had become overly dependent on private briefings from Johnson’s strategy chief, Dominic Cummings. “This way of operating does the public a big disservice,” Rutter said. “It allows Downing Street to get its message out without having to take responsibility for it.”

    When Johnson made his notorious “there is no press here” claim in front of the cameras at Whipps Cross hospital in east London– while being quizzed by a father anxious over his sick daughter – Kuenssberg came to his rescue. Passing over the prime minister’s falsehood at the time, she sent out a tweet stating that the father was a Labour activist.
    Omar Salem challenges Boris Johnson during his visit to Whipps Cross hospital


    Yet it is unfair to single out Kuenssberg. Research by Justin Schlosberg of Birkbeck, University of London, shows how the BBC (and other TV channels) paid huge attention when the obscure former Labour MP Ian Austin endorsed the Tories. Those channels paid far less attention when Ken Clarke, a political giant, suggested he would not vote Tory.

    Dr Schlosberg also draws attention to the striking imbalance in the coverage of manifesto launches. The Institute of Fiscal Studies produced an immediate and strongly critical response to both Tory and Labour manifestos, but “the IFS response to Labour was covered 10 times on the BBC in the two days” compared with “just one mention” for its criticism of the Tory manifesto in the equivalent period.

    I don’t think the BBC’s director general, Tony Hall, and his senior executives actively support Johnson and his Brexit policy. The problem is more interesting. The BBC does not have a party political bias: it is biased towards the government of the day.

    Two decades ago Hall was the BBC’s director of news and current affairs. Back then the corporation allowed itself to be bullied, manipulated and played by the New Labour government. William Hague’s Tories were almost as hard done-by as Corbyn is today. The memo from the then Newsnight editor Peter Horrocks to his team after the 1997 general election – calling for a very much different, and softer, analysis of New Labour in power than its Tory predecessor – remains notorious.

    Related: When Tory lies go unchallenged, democracy itself is in danger | Owen Jones

    The BBC is the second greatest British institution (after the NHS) created during the 20th century. It holds us all together as a nation. It stands for something magnificent about the decency and creativity of the British people. Like other great institutions, including parliament, it has been shaken by Brexit. That is understandable. But I worry that, over the last few months, it has been letting down the people who believe in it.

    I hope that BBC executives are not favouring the Tories simply because they fear the revenge a Conservative government would take if the corporation gave proper scrutiny to its stunningly dishonest campaign. This wouldn’t work: Johnson has allies who would love nothing more than the destruction of British public service broadcasting.

    It is past time for the BBC to regain its confidence as a fair-minded news organisation admired and envied across the world.

    • Peter Oborne is a journalist and author, and also runs a website about Boris Johnson’s falsehoods


    My comment is that its not about taking sides its about a catalogue of lies and half truths.
    Thats not an opinion--- the lies are a proven fact.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Hi Everyone,

    I’m not really a political animal, is there ever any real choice? But this time round, I do believe there is a very positive choice before the British people that could provide a beacon for the rest of the world. The video below was made in 2018 but couldn’t be more relevant and it’s a pleasure to see some intelligent discussion in the midst of the circus of lies. The EU is discussed as well as political systems and possibilities. Enjoy.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    is it over yet?

    How long in my lifetime do I have to wait for news coverage on election day where live reporters are seen scratching their heads outside polling stations that are deserted?
    Cut to live footage from government buildings around the country being ransacked and burned before all hell breaks out as hordes of unzombies storm the gates of Buckingham Palace.

    hey ho

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Don’t kid yourselves, progressives – Jo Swinson is so bad she’s helping build a Tory majority
    The Independent Sean O'Grady,The Independent

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/dont-kid-y...112300356.html


    As they say, this wasn’t in the script. Jo Swinson wanted three big things out of this election: Stop Brexit; Bin Boris; get the balance of power for the Lib Dems. It’s not turning out quite like that, is it Jo?

    After a disastrous campaign in an unnecessary winter election it looks rather more likely that her own party will want to bin Swinson. If the polls are right, the Lib Dems will now win few extra seats (YouGov suggests a net gain of one); Brexit will happen; and Boris will be set for a full term or two of his unique style of national leadership. If he makes it to 2024 and then to 2029 he will be in the Thatcher-Blair league. Most young people in this country will have lived most of their adult lives under Tory or Tory-led governments. Ms Swinson will be a backbencher, unless the SNP ousts her. And to think only a few short weeks ago she fancied she could be PM.

    Get used to it. In a little over a week’s time, Britain will have a hardline Brexit Conservative government led by a man with the morals of an alley cat, backed by a big majority of MPs who have sworn a personal oath of fealty to him and his skimpy manifesto. What a Christmas party they’re going to have at Chequers!

    When he was eight years old, the fable goes, Boris Johnson declared his ambition to be “king of the world”. He won’t be far off it as he prepares for a five-year term in which he can wreak revenge on the EU, the courts, the Commons, the BBC, Channel 4 and anyone else. Be afraid.

    Tactical voting, the Remain alliance, the youthquake, the remaining TV debates, Andrew Neil, Jeremy Corbyn’s superb campaigning skills, Lord Buckethead, Nigel Farage, the Russians – forget them. Even the brilliant Nicola Sturgeon, penned in up in Scotland.

    Progressives: do not delude yourself; do not entertain false hope. There are plenty of people out there nasty enough to vote Tory, and mean it. Even if you don’t know any.

    Nothing on earth can save you. A 10 point lead, or more, for the Tories over Labour will give Johnson a bumper result and quite possibly a landslide. Maybe Chuka will get in, maybe Raab will lose his seat. Maybe Labour will hold Kensington. It won’t matter.

    Get ready then for the elective dictatorship and the possibility of a no-deal Brexit by the end of 2020. The nightmare is about to go into full horror mode.

    It is not too early to start apportioning blame for this show. This brings us back to the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Jo Swinson, who has more to answer for than most.

    It was she, let us not forget, who granted Boris Johnson his early election during some parliamentary manoeuvrings in late October. She agreed to support the SNP in going for an early election. Labour, fearful of looking fearful, then gave in too. Johnson and Dominic Cummings got their way. And they knew exactly what to do.

    It need not have happened. Johnson was caged in the last parliament, and the possibility of a second referendum was live as the months dragged on. He was exactly where the opposition parties wanted him. No-deal Brexit was not allowed. Swinson held the balance of power, with others.

    But Swinson released the blond beast from the cage. She pleaded there was no majority for a final say referendum in the Commons. Maybe, but there was a lot more support for it in the old Commons than in the next one, and the pressure was there to force it.

    The Lib Dem leader said the best way to stop Brexit was to elect enough members of her party to revoke Article 50. She was warned at conference that that sounded extreme and undemocratic, and so it has been proved. It has it has annoyed voters on all sides.

    Swinson thought an early election would strengthen the Remain alliance, yet the SNP and Labour spurned the overtures. The Leave alliance is firmer.

    Swinson told us she stood ready to be prime minister, but the voters have not warmed to her the more they see of her. Unlike Nick Clegg, Paddy Ashdown and David Steel in their day, the extra media exposure hasn’t helped her party. It is going backwards in the polls.

    Mercifully, the big talk has stopped and Swinson has stopped trying to throw her weight around, but it is all a bit late. An electoral humiliation approaches.

    She will get more votes than Tim Farron in 2017, but few more MPs. The defectors from Labour and the Conservatives will probably fail. She, her party, and her supporters face a long depressing era of utter irrelevance. It may be some consolation to her that Labour will be in much the same position, but not much.

    None of this needed to happen. All of the consequence of her catastrophic decision to give Johnson his early general election were foreseen. The risk he’d actually win and “get Brexit done” was also obvious, with or without Farage’s help. Swinson owns her campaigning failures and huge political errors of judgement. Soon she will own Brexit too. Not in the script.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Dear Phoenix,

    Quote Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)
    The UK election is all tied up with this now - Boris has obviously been advised not to be interviewed too much, scrutiny is not a good thing for him! He ducked out of the leader’s debate on climate and heavy duty interviewers are kept at bay, at least until the postal vote deadline has passed. He has a continual smirk on his face as if he knows something we don’t. Maybe his ticket off planet while we all brace ourselves for disaster? He just laughs off the exposure because they get away with murder and always have. The judiciary as well as Parliament is rotten to the core.
    LJ: I don't think anyone would want Boris off-planet except as a slave or for breeding purposes, the latter activity which, by all accounts, he could at least perform to order! I disagree with you that the judiciary is rotten to the core. Whatever you think, its reputation is certainly less besmirched than that of our parliamentarians. Out of the triad of Crown, Judges and Parliament, it may well be that the judiciary is the most worthwhile institution of state the UK has, but it looks as if a victorious Johnson will use his majority to further reduce its power over parliament.

    Quote Under the Freedom of Information Act, Labour were able to get documents relating to the Tory secret negotiations with the US and the entire thing is redacted! Laughable if it wasn’t so disturbing. Like witholding the Russia report, with no explanation, that likely reveals the enormous funding Tories receive from Russian oligarchs.
    LJ: As Johnson's former boss, Max Hastings, said, 'He is not a man to believe in, to trust or respect, save as a superlative exhibitionist. He is bereft of judgment, loyalty and discretion. Only in the star-crazed, frivolous Britain of the 21st century could such a man have risen so high, and he is utterly unfit to go higher still.' From The Guardian, 12th Oct 2012.

    Quote I travelled and worked overseas extensively in my youth and not having an EU didn’t make much difference to me then. In fact, the very different economic and cultural differences of other countries was far more interesting than the homogenous blob that they’re trying to make of Europe now. The EU is widely despised, not just in UK, and it’s not the common market, not the customs union, but the EU government and bank.
    LJ: The EU will never be turned into an homgenous blob. You've just pointed out the differences in national character yourself. In criticising the EU, you have to remember why it was created, which was to bring Europe together after two terrible wars (see IChingUChing's mail). All too many politicians castigate the EU as a dominating supranational entity and completely forget the highly cooperative 'social' and 'cultural' aspects of the EU. In this case, I refer to its responsibility for joint projects (such as BRITE for R&D) and breathing life into underdeveloped regions that national governments don't reach, or even care about. It was was through projects like BRITE that I and many others acquired the opportunity to work with my fellow Europeans, and it was commendable that funding in these projects always favoured the least well-developed European states.

    Quote Ask Greeks how they feel about it, they don't even own their country any more. Or Italians. The Spanish, in my experience, have utter contempt and simply ignore a whole bundle of 'EU Directives'. They're not as 'law abiding' as we meek little sheep in UK, do as we're told, follow the programming. Millions may protest but it's still business as directed.

    The legislation that is passed in Brussels goes mostly unnoticed by the public until it affects them directly.
    LJ: You've hit the nail on the head! Brits took no interest in the EU until just before the referendum in 2016, as shown in the first figure here. That was the time the opportunists (yes, Johnson et al!) started selling a very simplified version of facts they themselves did not fully understand or bother to research. All too often when talking to native Brits who rail against the EU, I hear comments about immigration, people taking our jobs, EU laws that diminish our control, etc., etc., but what people do not realise is that it's because the Brits slavishly followed the rules to the letter, whereas the Italians, Spanish, French and, yes, even the Germans (!) would bend them to their advantage. I experienced this first-hand in the costing and management of EU projects, in which Brits were known to be the only ones who played the game with a straight bat.

    The great paradox is that if Brits had shared the Italians' healthy disrespect of government, then nutters like Rees-Mogg and Farage would never have been listened to!

    Believe you me, the EU is really a very tame and benign animal compared to the libertarian monsters within the Tory party.


    [QUOTE]They were ripe for it when the fascist right started rattling their cages. Another image I was unable to upload is of the letter from the Master of Dulwich College denouncing schoolboy Farage for his fascist views and appalling behaviour marching through a Sussex village, with others, shouting Hitler youth songs./QUOTE]

    LJ: As I've already said, the average joe in the street never really cared until the fascist right started stirring up blind hatred against the EU. Likewise, before the Nazis achieved ascendency in Germany, the jews simply got on with their lives and were never really a problem.

    Quote Obviously a common market is a good idea, as is the ability to travel and work anywhere in Europe without barriers. Corbyn seems to be offering a sensible solution, let everyone see the deal (that includes a common market) then vote Leave or Remain from an informed position.
    LJ: Exactly! As I can now see from working in Switzerland, the common market is of absolutely inestimable benefit. What we Brits took for granted, we will now lose.

    I have not a shred of respect for the right-wing MPs who eased their way into parliament from their respective disaster capitalism and stockbroking fraternities, and who have absolutely no understanding of the trials and tribulations of setting up and maintaining a business, manufacturing and trading goods and looking after one's employees.


    Quote Every time I thought about it over recent years I was brought to tears with frustration and impotence against a ruling class that seems to hate us and want us slaving until death. 82k+ women have died pensionless so far as a result of this and I wouldn’t hazard a guess at the number of suicides.
    LJ: You have my sympathies in this respect!

    Quote I’d like to hear your opinions on this question in particular. Why were we given a referendum on Europe in the first place?
    LJ: The referendum in 2016 was the result of David Cameron's promise in the manifesto on which he was elected. He always believed that the UK would vote to stay in the EU. The story is complex, but my view is that there was agitation from eurosceptic right-wing elements within the Tory party from the early 90s onwards. John Major famously called these guys his 'Bastards'. He briefly got them under control, but they regained their strength as the years went by, so Cameron eventually felt under increasing pressure to write the referendum offer into the manifesto. It has also been said that Cameron felt safe in doing this because he privately believed the Tories would never get a sufficiently large parliamentary majority to allow the referendum to go ahead!

    Cheers, John
    Last edited by Longjohn; 6th December 2019 at 09:16.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Hi Longjohn

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Points taken, although regarding the judiciary I remain shocked at the Assange ‘trial’ and endless stories like public schoolboy with 2000 images of baby porn gets off with a slap on the wrist, it makes me tend to believe the ‘conspiracy theory’ that the judiciary (and police) have been heavily infiltrated by the worst kinds of people, just like the BBC. I have little faith in any of it now...

    I’d be interested in your feedback on the vid I posted above as Corbyn very much speaks for me regarding the EU, and Varoufakis drops a truth bomb about the EU and Ireland that was news to me.

    I agree with you that by nature Brits are fair minded and decent people. The imperialists may have profited greatly from slavery, but it was Brits that initiated and effected its abolition in the end. But then again, maybe slavery just got more disguised. We are the most heavily surveilled and programmed nowadays, small island, perfect for the crowd control experiments.

    There is a TV reality show called The Real Marigold Hotel in which Stanley Johnson (Boris’ dad), was invited to race against some Indians, he cheated, crowed in triumph that he’d ‘won’ while everyone looked at each other in amazement thinking ‘what a jerk’. Everyone knew he’d cheated. Apple don’t fall far from the tree, as they say. Ironically, despite the plummy accents the family are not ‘true’ Brits, but immigrants! Just like the royal family!

    I would love to feel proud to be British again, as I did in my youth when holding up the NHS and education as great testaments to our democracy, but these clowns like Johnson, Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Blair, Brown etc. over recent decades have only caused me shame. 5 yr olds have classes in self touching and gender identity now. I expect you’re glad not to be teaching these days, I know of so many good people that have left the profession, sadly those following the program without question remain.

    I’m ever hopeful positive change is on the horizon. Which means I’m not quite so cynical as I make out! But if the Brits let us down in this election I guess I’ll just have to settle for the government they deserve and take the fallout along with the rest of the world.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    It is not too late': Andrew Neil challenges Johnson to commit to interview

    Andrew Neil has urged Boris Johnson to commit to an interview with him to face questions on why people have 'deemed him to be untrustworthy'. Neil ended his interview with Brexit party leader Nigel Farage with a direct challenge to the prime minister – the only leader of a major party not to have been interviewed by the veteran broadcaster during the campaign: 'It is not too late. We have an interview prepared. Oven-ready, as Mr Johnson likes to say.'
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    @Phoenix,

    I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Longjohn (here)
    @Phoenix,

    I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!
    I have to say I warmed to Corbyn --he is for the vunerable--genuinely cares I would say.
    Better PM material than Boris I would say--but can we afford either of them?
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    The Infamous Page 48 of Boris Johnson's Manifesto
    There is a lot of awful promises made in the Conservative manifesto, but none more horrific than page 48, which has been getting a lot of attention this week due to a dreadful link with similar policies last century. In this video, I explain how Boris Johnson intends to tear up the British constitution and use it to completely bypass parliament, the Queen and the courts.




    Whats the expression???
    "Hidden in plain sight"

    Boris has knocked the highest court in the land--- parliament fail safe ( a speaker and opposition) the Monarchy and just about everything else that stands for British Democracy.
    Anything that stands in the way--including old friends-family-ex lovers- ex employers-experienced ex chancellors of the exchequer ex PM's, is put to the media in a way that favours Get Brexit Done --They all got Boris and Brexit wrong of course.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


    Sir John Major in extraordinary call urging people to vote against Tories in three constituencies

    Yahoo News UK James Morris,Yahoo News UK


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/john-major...111230979.html

    Sir John Major today urged people in three constituencies to vote against the Tories in next week’s general election.

    In an extraordinary move by the former Conservative prime minister, he endorsed three independents who lost the Tory whip earlier this year after rebelling against Boris Johnson over Brexit.

    Mr Johnson responded by saying: “I think it’s very sad and I think that he’s wrong.”

    Sir John, backing ex-ministers David Gauke, Dominic Grieve and Anne Milton, was expected to say at a pro-second referendum rally in London: “Let me make one thing absolutely clear: none of them has left the Conservative Party, the Conservative Party has left them.
    "Without such talent on its benches, Parliament will be the poorer, which is why – if I were resident in any one of their constituencies – they would have my vote.”

    Sir John was set to describe Brexit as the “worst foreign policy decision in my lifetime”, and will say leaving the EU will affect “nearly every single aspect of our lives for many decades to come”.

    Chris says.
    Voters WAKE UP!!!!
    Do you really want Boris to be PM?
    Brexit at any cost???
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 6th December 2019 at 14:21.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Well said, Greybeard!

    I knew that Boris would try and nobble the courts: this just confirms it. In a few months' time, people will begin to see through the empty facade of the man he really is.

    I sincerely hope that one day the Brits will take a leaf out of the French Gilet Jeunes playbook, and finally have the guts to get off their complacent backsides and take their pitchforks to Parliament.

    The Brits really are the true 'Sheeple': in their naive belief that they still have democracy, they will continue to allow their 'elected' masters to strip their formerly great nation of humanity, decency and prosperity.
    Last edited by Longjohn; 6th December 2019 at 14:53.

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