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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

  1. Link to Post #1141
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    No, I will not compromise on my, Children/Grandchildren and our UK Children's freedom. This isn't just about the UK, it's the wholesale sell off of humanity to the NWO. We, as a Nation are being held back, dumbed down, by the EU, and we're paying for it. We are, on certain goods, not allowed to trade outside the EU. So how's this free rule ? We're never going to see eye to eye on this.

    You obviously didn't read the above document, created by the Nazis, Europaische WirtschaftsGemeinschaft' aka The 'EEC', 1942. It took me sometime to read and understand it. May I also recommend, Albert Pike's book, morals and dogma. An instruction manual from a 33 deg Mason. Interesting to note Pike was a 33 deg Scottish Rite Mason.

    The sound quality is not the best, but well worth the info contained in it. This is what it is all about, in a nutshell two hour video.
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I think you look for fascism in the wrong places, my friend.

    The word 'Fascism' originated in Italy, and Mussolini's ghost writer, Giovanni Gentile, defined Fascism as follows:

    'Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.'

    I spent the last 3 years of my working life as an employee of a large American corporation, and I was stunned at the cavalier way in which we were treated. We were relentlessly bombarded by daily propaganda of an intensity I had never before experienced.

    At the time, I called it 'corporate fascism', not fully appreciating at the time that this had always been part of the original fascist vision.

    So look to the globalised mega-corporations and obscenely wealthy individuals behind them as the true inheritors of fascism on this planet. Governments are merely their tool.

    Most mediocre right-wing politicians like Gerard Batten don't appreciate that, but the ones at the top of the pyramid (or hidden in the corridors of power) who are hand-in-hand with the corporate oligarchs most certainly do. There you will find your true 'Deep State', 'Miiltary Industrial Complex', or whatever you care to call them.

    In my opinion, turning away from the relatively benign political unity offered by the EU will open the doors to libertarianism of a kind never previously experienced in the UK.

    The ordinary man will slowly begin to realise that Fascism is alive and well in Britain, and that people like Johnson and Farage will have allowed it to happen.
    Last edited by Longjohn; 21st November 2019 at 10:21.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Well said, Chris!


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Scanner, I entirely agree with you about the New World Order, but I cannot accept that it comes from the EU, or that the EU is part and parcel of it. I haven't had a chance to read the document you mentioned, but I already knew about it from a good Swiss friend of mine. Did you read any of mine?

    What you have to realise is that the control and dumbing-down of the UK started well before Britain became fully integrated with the EU. Let me elaborate on this:

    To start, I'm sure you will agree with me that a good pre-university education is fundamental to the growth and well-being of a nation. Well, I went to an excellent grammar school in the 1960s, and eventually became a school teacher myself in the 70s. I did my teacher training precisely during the period in which comprehensive education was being rolled out across the UK. I was dismayed when I found I was expected to teach a subject (Physics) that was a pale shadow of what I had learnt at school and university barely a few years previously.

    The problem with Britain, then, is that secondary school education has been dumbed-down across the board, without providing non-academic (i.e., normal) children with the skills necessary to help them realise their potential and to give them a sense of purpose and job satisfaction throughout their lives.

    Of all the countries in Europe, Britain focused on creating this dumbed-down, 'prizes-for-all' education system without providing an institutionalised vocational training structure. A similar thing has happened to the American education system.

    In my younger years (i.e., the 1970s), I felt that this originated from the desire of socialist educationalists to eliminate all traces of class from British education, with grammar schools seen as being for the elitist few. It also occurred to me that there could have been be more sinister forces behind this, such as a Soviet communist desire to undermine Britsh society from within. Recall that in the post-war years there were plenty of communist 'sleepers' within the British labour party!

    If you go to countries like Germany, Switzerland, Holland, Austria and Denmark you will find that they are very strong on developing and utilising vocational skills. I notice that these people are, on the whole, much more knowledgeable, self-assured, organised and employable than their British counterparts.

    If you give people skills, then they can work more competently, manufacture goods that people want, build better houses, cars and trains, and generally run their businesses and nation better.

    Why can't Britain grasp this nettle for the benefit of its citizens? Could this be the one of the causes of the deep discontent that exists in Britain? Perhaps the very same discontent that devious politicians exploited to blame Britain's ills on the EU...

    In more recent years, I've come round to the idea that the NWO might be conducting an experiment with the Anglo-Saxon countries to slowly destroy them from within, perhaps with the aim of making them more subservient when these countries suffer the economic and social collapse, which, in my view, they are assuredly heading for (go back to my contribution above on the Ice-Nine scenario!).

    Personally, I'm very concerned that leaving the EU will trigger a cathartic shock to Britain from which it may not easily recover, especially considering the UK's severe skills deficit.

    As Greybeard has clearly said, surely maintaining the state of cooperation that has existed for the last 45 years has its benefits. Are we not 'better together', to be able sort out differences around the same table, instead of being an outsider?

    If you could persuade me that the EU is an evil force that is responsible for Britain's ills then I would be on your side but, in all honesty, I think you have to look elsewhere.

    Cheers, John
    Last edited by Longjohn; 26th November 2019 at 09:41.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Scanner, here's another take on your German article.

    'Brexit: UKIP MEP condemned for EU-Nazis comparison'

    https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu...zis-comparison

    I quote here some of the criticisms made of Gerard Batten:

    "On Monday, reaction to his remarks was swift, with UK Tory MEP Charles Tannock telling this website, "This is a burlesque statement and bears no relation to the truth. The EU was founded precisely to avoid the horrors of another major war on our continent."

    Tannock added, "The EU is a voluntary association of democratic countries prepared to pool some sovereignty for the common collective good and is as far removed as one can imagine from the totalitarian genocidal attempts by Hitler to force Europe under the Nazi thumb. It is an unworthy statement by any UK politician who has the minimal knowledge of 20th Century European history."

    Denis MacShane, a former Europe Minister in the UK who is campaigning for Britain to stay in the EU, said, "The desperate efforts by batty Europhobes to link Hitler with EU shows they know no history. They might as well say Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun were forefathers of EU. The fact is that European integration was a response to fascism and Stalinism and those who want to return the UK to pre-war isolationism are bonkers."

    Former ALDE MEP Andrew Duff commented, "It is unethical to relativise the Nazi regime - trying to explain it by putting the Third Reich into a normal historical context.

    "The post-war moves to European integration were the antithesis of fascism. Instead of forcing citizens to serve the state, the European Community aims to serve its citizens. In that sense, the EU is the prize of victory over Nazism. Batten finds himself unable to disguise his true colours."

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    We agree on one thing John, we are stronger together. But, as trading partners, not controlled by unelected Eurocrats. To be free to trade with any Country we wish, as it was packaged to us back in 1972. Not to be Dictated too. Have our Laws changed and told who we should accept and how many are allowed into our Country. I'm a firm believer in helping others no matter race or religion if they are truly refugees. But not to the point where our own are living on the streets, homeless without work. Charity begins at home, our system is not perfect, but it's ours.

    Tell these Scottish fishermen how the EU has helped them, in THEIR OWN Seas.

    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Can we be clear about the headline I posted. The original quote is from our Prime Minister Boris Johnson, not Batten. Batten said Johnson didn't go far enough (paraphrasing). I note the disdain comes from a remoner, ups sorry remainer. Why do they think they have the monopoly on history.

    How can this be Voluntary, if we're paying for it ?

    "The EU is a voluntary association of democratic countries prepared to pool some sovereignty for the common collective good and is as far removed as one can imagine from the totalitarian genocidal attempts by Hitler to force Europe under the Nazi thumb. It is an unworthy statement by any UK politician who has the minimal knowledge of 20th Century European history."
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    At least there is an educated discussion going on in this thread now.
    Another miss truth is that we would have a European Army certainly there were a few for it, Angela M for one, but it has definitely been rules out --sorry I cant quote where I read this now.
    Chris
    Ps trading strength comes from size.
    Car manufacturers were drawn to this country as easy access to Europe.
    When I mentioned compromise I was not suggesting you should compromise scanner but that the EU partners had to compromise--fishing one of these.
    I do think that leaving the EU without a satisfactory deal will lead to economic disaster.
    Ive yet to see a poor fisherman---a hard life but they earn big money.

    And the Lower Astral thrives on disunity ---fear --divide and conquer and all that.
    Boris is an expert in propaganda--get brexit done ---repeat repeat.
    Thats NLP---every one of the cabinet mouths it in every TV moment.
    Is a form of Hypnosis.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 19th November 2019 at 17:17.
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Dear Chris,

    That's a good point about NLP: repeat the lie often enough, ram it down their throats, and the sheeple will accept it even if they know it ain't true.

    The other slogan used in the 2016 campaign was 'take back control'. They believed that too!

    Yes, it's brilliant propaganda, damn it! Dominic Cummings knew what he was doing...

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I haven't been following this thread continuously so forgive me if anyone has already mentioned the book "The Great Deception - Can the European Union Survive" by Christopher Booker and Richard North. I'm currently reading it and it's packed with fully referenced information. I can thoroughly recommend it.

    In relation to the idea of the Nazi roots of the European Union, I thought it might be helpful to quote from the introduction to the book which is quite clear on this point:

    "But the immediate trigger for the intensive programme of research on which
    The Great Deception is based was a cinema commercial put out in 2002 by the
    organisation leading the campaign against Britain joining the single currency.
    Featuring the comedian Rik Maya11, in a parody of Hitler. proclaiming 'ein
    Volk, ein Reich, ein Euro' , this played on a widespread popular prejudice that
    European integration was somehow rooted in a desire for German domination.
    It was this prejudice in turn which had already encouraged some British
    Eurosceptics to argue that the EU's ideological origins lay in Nazi plans
    during World War Two to set up a 'European Economic Community' .

    We were already aware that this was based on a fundamental misreading of
    both the nature and the history of the 'project', and that its origins went
    considerably farther back than the Nazi period. But when we embarked on a
    systematic historical investigation, drawing ultimately on thousands of books,
    documents. academic papers and other sources, it soon became clear that it
    was not only the adherents of the 'Nazi origins' theory who had got the history
    of the European Union fundamentally wrong.

    So. it turned out, had everyone else who had attempted to reconstruct the
    story: Eurosceptics and Europhiles alike. And it was not least because of their
    failure to grasp the 'project's' true origins that historians had misunderstood
    and misrepresented so much that followed. The foundation of our researches
    lay in uncovering for the first time just how directly the European Union drew
    its inspiration from events during and after the First World War: in particular
    from the thinking of two friends who held senior posts in the League of
    Nations, the Frenchman Jean Monnet and his English colleague Arthur Salter.
    The irony will not be lost on some readers that the original blueprint for what
    was to become the European Union was sketched out by a British civil
    servant."
    (p6, The Great Deception - Can the European Union Survive by Christopher Booker and Richard North)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Well Well. Thanks for the clarification IChingUChing.
    Inclined to believe that foreword you posted.
    We have had peace since the two World wars both coming from Germany for whatever reason and the secret organization behind them.
    That alone is a massive benefit.
    Peace is not guaranteed.
    Look at the upsurge of violence in Northern Ireland possibly brought on by Brexit--look a the threats to MP's
    In who's interest is it to promote violence?
    Boris certainly did nothing to calm down the situation.
    So much rubbish about immigrants taking our jobs--ruining the country--all fuelling division.
    Where is the honesty and integrity?
    People have been fed over an over so many lies--all leading to conflict and division.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Dear IChing,

    Thank you for your most interesting revelation. What I like about the book is that it was written well before there was any talk of a referendum,
    so no-one can accuse the author of being an apologist for either Leave or Remain camps.

    It confirms my long-standing belief that the European Union was indeed the product of genuine altruism and vision on the part of its founders!

    Once again, I most sincerely thank you for this.

    John

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    An utter demolition of Brext and its perpetrators.

    If you want to engage in intelligent discussion on anything under the sun, Quora is a good place to go. This guy (Chris Le Carlin) has compiled an excellent summary of facts and statistics in answer to the question

    'Is Brexit destroying the UK'?

    It includes this, for example:

    EU Unfairness

    "Farage says that the EU has been imposing its “rule” on the UK for decades. If this true, the whole country would have been chafing at the bit for many, many years. Instead, the truth is:



    Nobody cared much about the EU till Farage started his campaign of lies in 2016. It is remarkable how he turned UK issues into EU issues. For example, this is a UK-only issue which he never speaks about:



    Almost a quarter of UK children are living at poverty levels due to failure of the UK system. Farage never mentions this. And as a multi-millionaire who made most of his money from politics, he never mentions this either:



    So where should our priorities be? I think these graphs tell us a lot.

    Brexit is just a distraction from all the real problems of the UK.

    It's a bit like General Galtieri invading the Falkland Islands to stir up nationalism and distract attention away from Argentina's severe economic problems. Look where it got him and Argentina...

    I'm so, so disappointed regarding the whole utter, unnecessary idiocy that is Brexit.
    Last edited by Longjohn; 24th November 2019 at 13:19.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    And a bit more, this time on fishing:

    Nothing Ever Gets Done By the EU

    "If nothing ever gets done by the EU, then how come the EU is supposedly oppressing us? Regardless, the EU can adapt and react to genuine concerns by its citizens. Here is the proof:



    And guess who never bothered doing anything, despite getting paid an obscene salary and continuously over-claiming his expenses?"

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Dear me, another one, who has no horse in this race. Telling us we have no mind of our own, we're too dumb to understand, please don't insult me. If you believe Farage influenced 17.5 million people, then Farage should be PM. Not everyone who voted leave likes Farage. I, personally, deplore the man. An ex Con-serative millionaire, who tells us he ran a business. Farage was born into a prosperous family—his father was a stockbroker—and attended Dulwich College, a prestigious private school in London. At age 18, instead of pursuing a university education, he became a commodities trader. Who has the best interests of the masses, do me a favour. He's just controlled opposition.

    We're constantly told " don't believe anything I say, do your own research " I don't and I do. But what Farage does, and does it well (as all politicians do) is inform the masses what they want to hear. Any good analyst, can make figures up say what they want them to say. I know this to be true, I have accountants who perform this task every year for me.

    Laws.
    The claims about how much of UK law comes from the European Union vary so massively, it's really difficult to get a definitive answer.

    Business for Britain, which wants the UK to leave the EU
    , says more than 60% of UK law is influenced by EU law.

    Robert Oxley says, "If you stacked the entire EU rule book it would be higher than Nelson's column. That's an incredible amount of paperwork which British businesses, British employers, all the people who have to comply with this legislation have to deal with. It is cost and time added on to their businesses."

    But some put the figure far lower, at around 13%. So who is right?

    In a nutshell it's somewhere in-between the two - let's look at why.

    To try to work out the proportion of UK law derived from EU law, you need to define what you mean by UK law and EU law, understand how they relate to one another, and only then "do the math".

    I have no dispute with, EU getting things done.
    They certainly do, ask the Irish, how they were forced to take a second referendum and is now causing violence again after some years of peace, because of the Good Friday agreement. But, could now be in tatters, because of the EU interference over borders, i.e. the back stop.

    Ask the Cypriots, who had to give their children to Social services because they couldn't afford to feed them, because of EU policies and banking.

    Immigration.
    EU open door policy, it's working really well in EU countries. Violent crimes and rapes up, Germany, Sweden and UK. Being well reported in the MSM. Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the EU.

    Fishing quotas
    I'll concede the fishing quotas are set and enforced by Britain, but initiated by the EU.

    So yes they get things done. I like your analogy of Fearnly- Whittingstall and Farage, both millionaires and both actors. At least Whittingstall can cook.
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Dear Scanner,

    I liked what you said in your last post, and you argued your case well.

    The only thing I will say is that I worked in British manufacturing for years, and I had to design, assemble, package goods and send them all over the EU.

    I never had any problems with delivery or receipt of goods, and we benefitted from being part of the customs union and not having to pay tariffs.

    When I moved to Switzerland, it became a different matter. In post #1132 above, I described the consequences of not being in the customs union and the effects this had on trading. The Swiss are used to this, the British are not, and yet no time will be allowed to sort all this out before Brexit.

    This is why I consider the whole busines of getting out of EU 'lock, stock and barrel' to be such nonsense. If the politicians could put away their ideological blinkers for a short space, and possibly find out a bit more about the real world, then they might just begin to perceive all the damage that's going to come in the wake of 'Getting Brexit Done'.

    Best, John
    Last edited by Longjohn; 24th November 2019 at 15:37.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Sorry, meant to say 'Scanner'!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Boris Johnson is about to destroy our democracy – just because he wants to get back at me
    The Independent Gina Miller,

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-john...124339555.html


    One of the many ironies of this general election is that Boris Johnson is actually seeking a democratic mandate to devalue our democracy.

    I wish this were some kind of sick joke, but it is there on page 48 of the Conservative manifesto, in black and white. “After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the government, parliament and the courts; the functioning of the royal prerogative; the role of the House of Lords; and access to justice for ordinary people,” it states.

    “The ability of our security services to defend us against terrorism and organised crime is critical.

    “We will update the Human Rights Act and administrative law to ensure that there is a proper balance between the rights of individuals, our vital national security and effective government.

    “We will ensure that judicial review is available to protect the rights of the individuals against an overbearing state, while ensuring that it is not abused to conduct politics by another means or to create needless delays”.

    One shouldn’t take these things personally, but it’s hard not to imagine Johnson was thinking about me and my two successful legal challenges to, first, Theresa May’s government, and then his when he approved the line “conducting politics by other means or to create needless delays.”

    Miller 1 – as the lawyers now call it – focused on May’s attempt to to deny parliament her sovereign right to vote on invoking Article 50. Miller 2 focused on his illegal prorogation of parliament to push his disastrous Brexit deal through without proper parliamentary scrutiny.

    When Johnson delivered his short manifesto speech on Sunday, very much in the manner of an accomplished after-dinner speaker, there was little to hint at the dark truths hidden away in his manifesto. It was essentially a document for constitutional change and modifications to the Human Rights Act. And it was presaged by certain right wing newspapers talking about the “people vs parliament” or the “people vs the judiciary”, despite this trampling on the most basic tenets of democracy that have made our “mother of all parliaments” revered the world over.

    Believing in the sanctity of parliament and understanding the dangers of undermining it for political gain is crucial to our country’s stability. No prime minister has ever had the audacity to challenge democracy with democracy.

    Parliament is the “people” because the people are represented by those they vote for in general elections. I acknowledge the deficits in both our first-past-the-post electoral system, as well as politicians getting away with dishonesty, but it is the system we have.

    When it comes to the judiciary, they are once again being turned into a tool for partisan and corporate interests. Our judges are the last check and balance we have on politicians attempts to put themselves above the law.

    These sinister lines about seeking to redraw the relationship between the government, parliament and the courts show that for Johnson, nothing is now off limits – even if it threatens the way our country has been governed for centuries.

    As things stand, the prime minister and the executive cannot resort to changing the royal prerogative to diminish our rights without parliamentary scrutiny or approval – as the judgment in my first case makes clear.

    Johnson has not, however, given up on his monstrous power grab. These manifesto commitments need to be seen within the context of the Henry VIII clauses in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB). It’s scattered with references to giving the minister (whoever he or she may be) and devolved authorities wide-ranging powers to implement delegated or secondary legislation.

    The scope of those proposed powers is extremely broad, they give the minister the subjective discretion to “make such provisions as he considers appropriate”. In many instances, there are no limits (like those included in the EU Withdrawal Act 2018) on the exercise of the power, such as preventing retroactive application of the law, the creation of criminal offences or tax implications, and the establishment of new authorities or time limited powers.

    The mechanics for parliamentary approval are set out in schedule five of the WAB, but whether the secondary instrument is to be passed by the affirmative or negative resolution procedure is not clear.

    In some cases, it appears that Johnson is seeking to write the House of Lords out of the next difficult phase of the Brexit process altogether. It seems he wishes to see that its role is reduced to observing motions in the House of Commons without its own separate power to approve or oppose.

    Why is that important? The type of resolution procedure determines the extent and intensity of parliamentary scrutiny. Neither delegated procedure ensures full parliamentary scrutiny, which is why the use of Henry VII powers is so contentious and alarming. Let’s be clear – attempts are being made to make precedents here that will go far and beyond Brexit and threaten our most basic and cherished of freedoms.

    Dominic Cummings – the intellectual driver of Johnson’s government – has long been an exponent of disruptive politics, but we need to be clear about what new order he has in mind for when we disrupt what we now have.

    Johnson’s manifesto predictably cites “national security” as one of the reasons for giving up on so many of our ancient rights, which reminds me of Benjamin Franklin’s famous warning that “those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    Gina Miller is the founder of the tactical voting website remainunited.org
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Sometimes the onlooker sees most of the game.
    When sides are taken-- a blindness can set in and valid issues are ignored if they conflict with our chosen out come.
    I can see why Jeremy Corbyn states he is neutral--thats ok when there is no agenda and you are not taking any part in the game.
    However people have the right to expect leaders to lead--to be specific to have a definite direction to go in.
    Then people can choose.

    Nicola Sturgeon did not excel in her interview recently with Andrew Neil--though I doubt if anyone would survive his style of questioning--Jeremy Corbyn did not fare much better.
    Wonder if Boris will be interviewed by him.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Nicola Sturgeon is horrendous, a driven crone worthy of a Shakespearean tragedy, a politicking poseur with colour-co-ordinated baby-posing. She is the death of Scotland, much much worse than when I voted for Margo MacDonald in the 70’s, this stirring witch is not for Scottish folk at all, just a self-promoting nasty piece of funded corporate puppeteering. Don’t be fooled.
    The love you withhold is the pain that you carry
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    "Chariots of the Globs" (apols to Fat Freddy's Cat)

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