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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    This may be my last word on this matter, posted on the other thread:
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    The latest polls predicted a possible hung parliament with highly organized tactical voting expected to be hugely effective.
    How to turn this into a Tory landslide ? Easy peasy.

    You conduct exit polls in all the close constituencies, using facsimile ballot papers identical to the real thing – true, I read it yesterday, and no doubt thousands can testify to it. You then have all day to prepare to substitute real ballot papers with these forged ones – Tories get to vote twice, others not at all.

    These exit polls were themselves criminal, a big No No. And a big smoking gun: there can have been no other motive behind such a massive forgery than a Con landslide. The thousands of victims need to file a complaint. But they will be seen as bad losers: it is all those dumb northerners’ fault. And for once the conspiracy theorists won’t be interested, because those losers are on the winning side.


    A very slick piece of work.

    @Araucaria,

    I read that yesterday and said to myself, 'Oh, no, it can't be true!', but you vocalised it. I had heard tales of ballot-box stuffing occurring in previous elections, but this...!

    For many years, I've felt that the Anglo-Saxons are sheep who allow themselves to be led astray by the worst of masters, whether they be Johnson, Trump or Trudeau.

    I just wish the British would get off their collective backsides and do what the Gilet Jaunes did in France. That time will come, I guess, but by then it could be too late.

    As to responsibility for all this, I could be persuaded to glance in the direction of a certain well-known henchman Boris appointed to his No. 10 office...

    John
    Last edited by Longjohn; 13th December 2019 at 12:20.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    N.L.P. won.
    Neuro linguistic programing---repitition repitition and a style of vocal delivery that holds the attention--gives it impact.
    Man made the dream and the dream made the man--I hope Boris rises to the occasion---you can be sure Nicola Sturgeon will.
    Scotland may get an influxof remainers if home rule comes about.
    They will get a good Scottish welcome.
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 13th December 2019 at 14:19.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Longjohn (here)
    As to responsibility for all this, I could be persuaded to glance in the direction of a certain well-known henchman Boris appointed to his No. 10 office...
    A thought from last summer: Dominic Cummings, from a mining family of Durham, famous for explaining how the Tories couldn’t give a toss for people like himself, is clearly a traitor to his own and his own integrity. Notice how for people like this, Boris Johnson has previous: Leo Boland, another “son of a County Durham pitman” was his chief executive at London City Hall from 2009-11. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-london-boland

    What happened is that this civil servant, who built his reputation by making other people redundant, made himself redundant on the basis that he was doing Johnson’s job, and so gave himself a nice golden handshake at 58, thereby saving the taxpayer not a penny on his two-year early retirement!
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/bori...f-6565805.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...hief-executive


    In view of recent developments this fetish for Durham miners’ sons takes on some importance. Here is a video presentation which I confess made me cringe: pretty dreadful from someone on that sort of salary.
    https://vimeo.com/15684975


    More interestingly, there is the going ahead with electronic vote-counting despite possible fraud: “Leo Boland takes decision to e-count in London 2012”
    https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog...in-london-2012


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    From: https://bbc.com/news/election/2019


    1. This is the Conservatives biggest election victory in more than 30 years.
    2. Boris Johnston said that Brexit is now 'irrefutable'.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    But here’s the big question: Can we trust Boris Johnson to deliver? He’s certainly saying the right things. Maybe we have turned a corner. Maybe the Conservatives finally understand they have to deliver a meaningful Brexit in order to survive as a political force. The last Euro elections put the fear of god into them. That said, the Tories remain the only party who can form a Leave government.

    What's the alternative? As someone who grew up in the seventies an economically innumerate Labour Party is too horrible to contemplate. Their manifesto is a blueprint for financial ruin. The policies of the EU have hit the working classes hard. Working class voices need to be heard, aspirations recognized and cultural values respected.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I would rather be dead in a ditch, if I don't Brexit by 31st Oct 2019, said Boris.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9093501.html
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Home Rule for Scotland Inevitable?

    I have been thinking about this.
    The Scots are Thrawn (Pig headed)
    The more Boris and Co say no to anoher independence referendum, the more the Scots will be determined to have home rule.
    So the border situation.
    If home rule comes about it will take some time and sometime to get an application to rejoin the EU approved by them.
    Mean time a trade relationship between the UK and others inculding the EU, will be negotiated.
    The main reason for a border is custom and excise requirements--only necessary if different tariffs apply.
    Other situations can be handled by visa, applied for before foreign nationals want to come here.
    The rules and regulations on food etc always apply--now and in the future.
    So as long as Scotland and England have the same tariff rate I dont see the need for a hard border.
    Happy to be corrected on this.
    Maybe I am naive.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Jeff Taylor is still going with his countdowns, this one is another countdown to Brexit Day!: 14 days to Brexit Day


    Macron tries to force Brexit extension!


    ...Mr Macron it is not our nation that is engaged in civil unrest like yours is...


    Jeff gives (in my bias and humble opinion) a great rant at the end!

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Nigel Farage's last speech in the European Union parliament.

    TL;DR
    It was meant to be a common market, not a common flag (or army, or political empire). The EU have IGNORED EVERY SINGLE OTHER COUNTRIES REFERENDUM, except Britain's.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I haven't seen Carl Benjamin (aka Sargon of Akkad) in such a humorous, flippant mood for a while.

    Benjamin had previously expressed Brexit frustration more elegantly than I thought possible.

    In this video Benjamin picks through remainers tweats, calling out misconceptions and badly informed opinions.

    This isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, it is highly bias and (imho) it may come across a little obnoxious to some people. It's here for people who are enjoying Brexit: https://youtu.be/3L_ECsbmxdc

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    We are now Sovereign again. I've now updated my Countries Flag.

    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by YoYoYo (here)
    I haven't seen Carl Benjamin (aka Sargon of Akkad) in such a humorous, flippant mood for a while.

    Benjamin had previously expressed Brexit frustration more elegantly than I thought possible.

    In this video Benjamin picks through remainers tweats, calling out misconceptions and badly informed opinions.

    This isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, it is highly bias and (imho) it may come across a little obnoxious to some people. It's here for people who are enjoying Brexit:
    I thought that was hilarious. (I confess! ) He really was enjoying himself. His humour was genuine, not faked for the camera.

    It must be pretty tricky in Britain right now. I'm 100% against the EU, and always have been. But it's not any Europeans, or any European countries I didn't like: it was solely the top-heavy bureaucracy of the European Superstate: a kind of sugar-coated, Totalitarian Lite.

    Now, I suspect, it'll all start to crumble as more countries opt to do the same.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 1st February 2020 at 20:38.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ... Carl Benjamin ...
    Him, Count Dankula, Alistair Williams and We Got A Problem seem to have been closer to the zeitgeist, than for example Victoria Derbyshire, who like the rest of the BBC missed zeitgeist because they were pushing the zeitgeist they really really wanted instead.

    Mehyar Tousi, also capturing the moment but with a more low-brow tone, different to the danky, gamer geek humour (or with Alistair, a full blown pro. comedian). One way or the other, it seems brash/frank, unafraid humour saved the day.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    The US connection. Guardian comment by fishgirl23:
    Quote Cummings ain't running this show. Matthew Elliot and his wife, Sarah Elliot are in full control of what is happening in the UK. I have been reading about it, but need to understand it fully before posting more. All information is in the public domain. If journalists fail to present this information they will do a disservice to their profession and the UK. Just undertake a search of the husband and wife team. Brexit has been a very long time in the making. Cummings is another puppet.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...downing-street


    Follow the links in the thread :
    https://twitter.com/BettGunther/stat...79980884463619
    Quote GuntherBett #FBPE@BettGunther 20h
    Now look at how Matthew Elliott told his wife to be Sarah, in 2012 that he would take the UK out of the EU
    https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18/...bbyists-brexit
    Quote At the heart of this network lies a little-known power couple, Matthew and Sarah Elliott. Together, the husband and wife team connect senior members of the Leave campaign and groups pushing a libertarian free-market ideology from offices in Westminster’s Tufton Street to major US libertarian lobbyists and funders.

    Collectively, the network aims to use Brexit as an opportunity to slash regulations in the UK, paving the way for a wide-ranging US-UK free-trade deal that could have disastrous consequences for the environment.


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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


    After coronavirus, Boris Johnson's Tories will be a very different party

    The Guardian Martin Kettle,The Guardian

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronaviru...050034631.html


    It is only four months since Boris Johnson led the Conservative party to a historic victory. His 80-seat majority seemed to recast the electoral landscape for a generation. It also marked another milestone in Brexit’s transformation of the Conservative party from the party of business to the party of the flag. Today, that seems like another world.

    Everything has been upended by Covid-19. The business of government is wholly taken up with protecting public health, keeping the economy on life support and, in Johnson’s own case, his personal survival. Today the national lockdown is expected to be extended into May.

    It seems likely that the Britain which eventually emerges from the coronavirus crisis will be a country of a significantly different temper from the Britain that went into it. Nobody can be certain about the degree of change. The possibility that the economy may shrink by a third, with millions of job losses, is a reality check about a more enduringly difficult new normal. The post-pandemic Conservative party must adapt too. But in what ways?

    Future British politics will not shake down into a binary choice between the economy and public health. The need to restore both will be far messier than that. Political horizons will simultaneously be very wide – global issues of health, supply chains, travel, information and Chinese power will surge up the agenda – and very narrow: local issues about safe ways to work, earn, live and survive a future pandemic will matter more too. Politics will be more fragile, fearful and dynamic.

    While the pandemic and the lockdown hold sway, the official Conservative position is to ensure the least bad of all possibilities. The policy can be summed up by Rishi Sunak’s comments this week. “The single most important thing we can do for the health of our economy is to protect the health of our people,” said the chancellor on Tuesday. “It’s not a case of choosing between the economy and public health.”

    However, once discussion moves on to the so-called exit strategy and to the post-Covid future, as it is now beginning to do, this begins to change. The choices do not suddenly become absolute. Instead they become competing calculations of the balance of risk in the interaction between the economy and public health, as and when the pandemic wanes. That has to be one of the reasons why Keir Starmer is pressing the government to publish its strategy. He knows this will reveal faultlines and compromises that an opposition can exploit without appearing partisan or unpatriotic.

    There are some signs of those tensions already appearing within Conservative ranks. Sajid Javid, Sunak’s more fiscally cautious predecessor, warned this week against mortgaging the future, and said low taxes remained key to kickstarting the economic recovery. Theresa May and several of her ex-ministers, including Philip Hammond, believe something similar. But Johnson will want to go on spending, not reinventing austerity. So will the health secretary, Matt Hancock, who will press for a large programme of resilience measures in health and social care to guard against a future pandemic. The new Tory MPs from the former industrial areas will agree with them. So, at least for now, will Sunak.

    Where this process of change will eventually lead the Tory party is difficult to predict. Sunak’s autumn budget – in which the social care agenda that was abandoned in 2017 will surely have to be a central focus – looms increasingly as a vital moment. But all this will surely generate a rather different party, and with rather different priorities, from the one that Johnson led to victory last December.

    Whether the Tory party successfully embraces the choices that will now face it depends overwhelmingly on Johnson himself. After 2019, the party is unusually dependent on the man at the top. The reshuffled cabinet consists mainly of minister of state-level players whom Johnson dominates from No 10. Its lack of depth has been cruelly exposed in the crisis. The party remains very much Johnson’s own brand, held together by his inimitable personality and popularity.

    For as long as Johnson remains out of action, the important choices about the party’s direction are likely to be deferred. The party which, only a few weeks ago, Johnson and Dominic Cummings were building on the basis of Brexit and the anger of the left-behind is becoming less relevant by the day in the shadow of coronavirus.

    Related: Coronavirus has made the BBC's balancing act even harder | Tom Mills

    The dissonance between the new realities and the recent past is now huge. Instead of the old contempt towards experts, competence and seriousness, there is now a craving for all three to help steer a safe course through the Covid-19 crisis. The idea that the government’s post-pandemic priorities might include lighting fires under the BBC, the civil service and the universities therefore seems even more destructive now than before. The idea that Britain should be a Brexit buccaneer, turning its back resolutely against Europe and throwing itself into the arms of Donald Trump seems even more irresponsible.

    As one former minister put it to me this week: “The party that was being created in the wake of the election was a new one. It was based on a cultural backlash against liberalism and established elites at home and abroad. But that doesn’t feel to me like what the country wants now. It doesn’t want divisive politics. It doesn’t want a culture war. This feels like a moment to step away from a lot of that.” Whether to take that step away will be very much Johnson’s own decision. But it is a decision with momentous implications for the Tory party and for the whole of British party politics.

    • Martin Kettle is a Guardian columnist
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    I wonder where this puts the brexit process.
    A double whammy for buisness and the economy- trying to survive lockdown.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I wonder where this puts the brexit process.
    A double whammy for buisness and the economy- trying to survive lockdown.
    Chris
    It's going to depend on how the mood changes as the stats justifying lockdown change to stats justifying getting back to 'normal'. If the UK politicos start tap dancing and allowing an ingress of a technocratic replacement form of government, a societal 2by4 smack on the head double whammy realisation could trigger trouble.

    If our Brexit Prime Minister only gave us 'brexit' because a decision had been made that brexit didn't even matter any longer, watch out.


    I'm not going to go there yet because the straw I'm clutching is the most positive psychological battlefield straw I can manifest in my sweaty grip, and UK riots ain't in it.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I wonder where this puts the brexit process.
    A double whammy for buisness and the economy- trying to survive lockdown.
    Chris
    It's going to depend on how the mood changes as the stats justifying lockdown change to stats justifying getting back to 'normal'. If the UK politicos start tap dancing and allowing an ingress of a technocratic replacement form of government, a societal 2by4 smack on the head double whammy realisation could trigger trouble.

    If our Brexit Prime Minister only gave us 'brexit' because a decision had been made that brexit didn't even matter any longer, watch out.


    I'm not going to go there yet because the straw I'm clutching is the most positive psychological battlefield straw I can manifest in my sweaty grip, and UK riots ain't in it.
    I think that is a wise observation Norman.
    Who knows where the hell this is going.
    It will be interesting to see what Boris pulls out of the bag.
    Best wishes
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Brexit transition period must be extended immediately, says Labour MP
    By Craig Paton, PA Scotland Political Reporter
    PA Media: UK News

    Shadow Scottish secretary Ian Murray has called for an “immediate” extension to the Brexit transition period due to the coronavirus outbreak.

    In a letter to Scottish Secretary Alister Jack, Mr Murray said “this is not a time for constitutional politics”, adding the Government focus should be on tackling Covid-19.

    The transition period for the UK leaving the EU expires on December 31, with a deadline to request an extension set for June 30.

    Mr Murray wrote: “I note that Scottish Conservative and Unionist leader Jackson Carlaw MSP has called for a ‘pragmatic response’.

    “The pragmatic response for the UK Government is to urgently apply for an extension to the transition period.

    “This is not a time for constitutional politics and business do not need any more uncertainty.”

    He added: “The entire focus of all Governments in the UK must be on working together to tackle the coronavirus outbreak and then dealing with its aftermath to ensure our economy recovers.

    “I therefore hope you will support your party leader in Holyrood, and business leaders across the UK, and address this issue with your Cabinet colleagues at the earliest possible opportunity.”



    The letter also raised a number of other issues.

    The Edinburgh South MP asked for assurances that MPs would return to Parliament in some form after the Easter recess, as well as the extension of the job retention scheme to those who have started a new job and concerns about people who are self employed.

    Mr Murray outlined nine different issues in his letter, in which he also called on the Scottish Secretary to push for full transparency on how financial support sent from Westminster to Scotland will be spent by Scottish ministers.

    Support will also be needed in local media, Mr Murray said, claiming newspapers are struggling to due to declining sales and advertising revenue during the crisis.

    He said: “Without newspapers to hold those in power to account, our democracy will be fundamentally weakened.

    “Would your office consider engaging with the Scottish Government to discuss what financial support can be offered to ensure Scotland’s local newspapers survive this crisis?”

    The shadow Scottish Secretary, who was appointed by new Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer, went on to accuse the UK Government of not doing enough to repatriate citizens stuck abroad.

    He said: “I do believe the UK Government can increase its efforts to get people home. Many airlines that are still operating are charging exorbitant fares which means commercial travel is not affordable for most.

    “My constituents who are still stuck abroad need more certainty that their Government will get them home as soon as possible.”

    A spokeswoman for the UK Government said the Prime Minister has “no intention of changing” the date of the end of the transition period.

    She added: “Our top priority as a Government is to slow the spread of the coronavirus, protect the NHS and keep people safe – we are working around the clock to do so, with all four nations together providing unprecedented financial support for businesses, workers and the self-employed.”
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Scottish Independence.
    I think this will be really knocked on the head, reason being that Scotland derives quite an income from tourism -- which will be dead in the water for quite some time.
    Chris
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