The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

[Matthew]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by YoYoYo (here)
News is emerging that prime minister Boris Johnston is prepared to take his Brexit case to the supreme court

Wow. He may be trusting the Supreme Court WAY too much.

Yes, the Supreme Court (set up by Tony Blair) has shown it's gleeful bias in Lady Hale's gloating.

But Boris doing this might force the constitutional crisis to a head, bringing to light the problems with an unaccountable Supreme Court with their own personal political agendas, mucking about with Parliament politics.

This Supreme Court, set up by Tony Blair, needs some reform for the sake of our democratic constitution

That said, alternatively it could also be...
Perhaps this is one of many actions Boris is pulling, and one designed to take the publicity. The Court has already un-suspended Parliament after Boris suspended it, and when Parliament were recalled nothing of value was debated, just a lot of whinging and ...well, humbug. So I wonder if Boris suspended Parliament, that time, to take the reactive heat from resisting remainers.

I wonder if he is pulling this stunt for the same reason, and if I didn't know better, I'd think he has other plans* The remain side are very reactionary right now - leaping on anything in any disruptive way possible. (Anything to thwart the break up of their empire, and try to crush 'populism' especially one from a direct democratic vote such as the leave result)

[Matthew]

Carl Benjimin explains how the Supreme Court's involvement is constitutionally dodgy

Relevant ranting starts at 10:45 (direct link)

#Brexit: The Remainers Are Out For Blood
Published 5 Oct 2019

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lbfsWJLsZ0Q

*edit*
I found a more detailed video that Carl had made about this a few weeks ago:
Britain's Activist Supreme Court, published 25 Sep 2019

[greybeard]

Brexit latest: Chances of deal with Boris Johnson 'essentially impossible'
Yahoo News UK Victoria Bell,Yahoo News UK

Boris Johnson has been told a Brexit deal is “overwhelmingly unlikely”.

According to Downing Street, the German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke to Mr Johnson this morning and made clear the EU’s objection to the UK’s current proposal.

Merkel said she would not support a deal unless Northern Ireland stayed in a customs union and would have full alignment with the EU forever.

[greybeard]

Brexit blame game begins: Brexit deal is impossible, British source says
Reuters By Guy Faulconbridge, Elizabeth Piper and William James,Reuters 3 hours ago

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/uk-source-...072310852.html


By Guy Faulconbridge, Elizabeth Piper and William James

LONDON (Reuters) - The Brexit blame game began on Tuesday when a source in British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's office blamed German Chancellor Angela Merkel for scuppering any chance of an exit deal with unacceptable demands about the future of Northern Ireland.

With just 23 days before the United Kingdom is due to leave the bloc, the future of Brexit remains deeply uncertain and both London and Brussels are positioning themselves to avoid blame for a delay or a disorderly no-deal Brexit.

EU leaders reacted coolly to Johnson's last-ditch proposals to bridge the impasse. Merkel and Johnson spoke on Tuesday morning and she made clear that a deal was "overwhelmingly unlikely", a Downing Street source said.

Merkel said that for a deal, Northern Ireland would have to stay in the EU's customs union and full alignment with the EU forever, the source said. A spokesman for the German chancellor declined to comment on the phone call.

"If this represents a new established position then it means a deal is essentially impossible not just now but ever," the Downing Street source said.

"It also made clear that they are willing to torpedo the Good Friday Agreement."

The 1998 agreement bought peace to Northern Ireland after three years of sectarian and political violence which killed about 3,600 people. The EU has previously stated any Brexit deal must safeguard the accord.

Such abrupt remarks from London indicate the Brexit blame game has begun in earnest, and that now both London and European capitals are preparing for an acrimonious and potentially chaotic Brexit which neither side wants to be held responsible.

"This is yet another cynical attempt by Number 10 to sabotage the negotiations," said Labour's Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer, adding that the British parliament needed to unite to stop him.

"Boris Johnson will never take responsibility for his own failure to put forward a credible deal. His strategy from day one has been for a no-deal Brexit."

Sterling fell to a one-week low of $1.2225, before recovering a little to $1.225 as of 0950 GMT -- down 0.3% on the day.

BREXIT BLAME GAME

A separate Downing Street source told Reuters that unless the European Union compromises and does a Brexit deal shortly, then the United Kingdom will leave without a deal.

"If the EU doesn't do a deal shortly, then we leave without a deal," the source said. "We are leaving the European Union."

Johnson has consistently said the United Kingdom will leave the EU on Oct. 31 with or without a deal, though a law passed by parliament demands he write a letter to the EU asking for a delay if he cannot strike an exit deal by Oct. 19.

He has said he would abide by the law but Britain would leave the EU by the end of the month, without explaining that contradiction. He has also repeatedly demanded an election but parliament has refused to grant one.

The Spectator magazine quoted an unidentified source in Downing Street as saying that Britain would take an aggressive stance towards the EU if Brexit talks break down, possibly even by withholding security cooperation.

"The negotiations will probably end this week," the Spectator magazine quoted an unidentified source in Downing Street as saying. The source added that those who hoped that Merkel would help London were "deluded".

"This government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless," the source was quoted as saying. "We'll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal."

(Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; editing by Michael Holden and Angus MacSwan)

[Matthew]

How the EU is taking over the UK's Defence and Intelligence Capabilities
By Lt General Riley, published 20 Sep 2019

extract:
[The UK's armed forces and our intelligence architecture] could all be directed and controlled, put in harms way, by a body that could not be brought to account for it's actions ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UkPNfR3Z5Yo

[greybeard]

(Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is facing a fresh rebellion in his cabinet, with a group of ministers poised to resign due to concerns that he is leading the country towards a no-deal Brexit, The Times newspaper reported on Wednesday.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/five-uk-mi...020304465.html

Culture Secretary Nicky Morgan, British Minister for Northern Ireland Julian Smith, Justice Secretary Robert Buckland, Health Minister Matt Hancock and Attorney General Geoffrey Cox are all on a "resignation watch list", according to The Times report.

An unnamed cabinet minister cited by the newspaper said that a "very large number" of Conservative members of parliament will quit if it comes to a no-deal Brexit.

The Times said that ministers had warned Johnson in a cabinet meeting about the "grave" risk of the return of direct rule in Northern Ireland and raised concerns about Dominic Cummings, Johnson's top adviser.

"Cabinet will set the strategy, not unelected officials. If this is an attempt to do that then it will fail", the report quoted another cabinet minister as saying.

While the Times newspaper did not specify how many Conservative lawmakers oppose a no-deal scenario, the Financial Times reported early on Wednesday that at least 50 members of parliament from the party will revolt against a general election manifesto pledging to pursue a no-deal Brexit.

Certain lawmakers from the party are considering running on a softer individual Brexit platform or even standing aside altogether as a Tory candidate, the FT report added.

The media reports come as the European Union accused Britain of playing a "stupid blame game" over Brexit after a Downing Street source told Reuters a deal was essentially impossible because German Chancellor Angela Merkel had made unacceptable demands.

With just over three weeks before the United Kingdom is due to leave the European bloc, the future of Brexit remains deeply uncertain as both London and Brussels position themselves to avoid blame for a delay or a disorderly no-deal Brexit.


Chris says
"A no deal exit in reality would cause hardship for a lot of people, to say nothing of a hard border being necessary between North and South Ireland.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand.
That is not fear mongering--its a reality check.

[Matthew]

Two pieces of news today as reported by Jeff Taylor:

• Boris Johnson to use second letter to avoid Brexit Extension?!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kuk_Fu3pJpY

• Jeremy Corbyn Promises a Second EU Referendum!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6OC7SSW3kJQ

[greybeard]

Brexit deal can be done by October 31, Ireland says after 'positive' Johnson meeting
Reuters By Elizabeth Piper and Peter Powell,Reuters

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/last-chanc...065624234.html

THORNTON MANOR, England (Reuters) - A Brexit deal could be clinched by the end of October to allow the United Kingdom to leave the European Union in an orderly fashion, Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said after what he called a very positive meeting with Boris Johnson.

With just three weeks to go before the United Kingdom is due to leave the world's biggest trading bloc, it remains unclear on what terms it will leave or indeed whether it will leave at all.

After Brexit descended into a public row between London and Brussels earlier this week, Johnson, the British prime minister, met Varadkar at Thornton Manor in Cheshire on Thursday in a last ditch bid to avert an acrimonious divorce or another delay.

"I think it is possible for us to come to an agreement, to have a treaty agreed, to allow the UK to leave the EU in an orderly fashion and to have that done by the end of October," Varadkar told Irish reporters.

"But there's many a slip between cup and lip and lots of things that are not in my control," he said.

When asked about who made concessions to break the impasse, Varadkar said: "I don't think this should be seen in the context of who's making concessions, or who the winners and losers are, I don't think that's the game any of us want to play."

In a joint statement, the two leaders said they "could see a pathway to a possible deal" and that the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier would meet his British counterpart Steve Barclay in Brussels on Friday.

Sterling shot up 1.5% to $1.2387. British 10-year government bond yields recorded their biggest one-day rise in nearly four years.

To get a done deal, Johnson must master the complexities of the Irish border before getting the approval of Europe's biggest powers and then sell any deal to the British parliament in which he has no majority and which he suspended unlawfully last month.

Johnson, the face of the 2016 Brexit campaign, made no further comment on the meeting with Varadkar. The details of what, if anything, had been agreed were unclear.

Ireland holds the key to any deal. It will have to consent to any solution to the hardest Brexit riddle of all: how to prevent the British province of Northern Ireland becoming a backdoor into the EU's markets without having border controls.

The EU fears controls on the 500-km (300-mile) Irish border with Northern Ireland would undermine the 1998 Good Friday Agreement which ended three decades of sectarian and political conflict that killed more than 3,600 people.

Although Johnson has insisted Britain will leave the EU on Oct. 31 even if no agreement is reached, the British parliament has passed a law saying he must request a delay.

IRELAND

Hopes of a Brexit deal were dented earlier this week when a Downing Street source said agreement was essentially impossible because German Chancellor Angela Merkel had made unacceptable demands. The EU said Johnson was playing a stupid blame game.

Ireland is the biggest issue of disagreement.

The Irish border has been largely invisible since army checkpoints were taken down after the 1998 peace deal largely ended the violence between the region's pro-British majority and an Irish nationalist minority.

Politicians have warned that the re-imposition of physical infrastructure on the border when it becomes the EU's external frontier would anger Irish nationalists in Northern Ireland who aspire to unification with the Republic of Ireland, and help militants opposed to the peace deal to recruit new members.

To get around the problem, the EU agreed an insurance policy - known as the backstop - last November with Johnson's predecessor Theresa May.

The Withdrawal Agreement that May struck says the United Kingdom will remain in a customs union "unless and until" alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border.

Johnson said that was undemocratic, undermined the unity of the United Kingdom and would keep it trapped in the EU's orbit for years to come.

Last week he proposed an all-island regulatory zone to cover all goods. Northern Ireland would leave the EU's customs area along with the rest of the United Kingdom and the province's institutions would be able to opt to exit the regulatory zone - a step too far for Ireland and the EU.

Johnson and Varadkar said they had discussed consent and customs.

Though Ireland is only about an eighth of the size of the United Kingdom's $2.8 trillion economy, Dublin is backed by the rest of the EU whose economy - minus the United Kingdom - is worth $15.9 trillion.

While Ireland would be very badly affected by a no-deal Brexit, the relative importance of Ireland in the negotiations up-ends centuries of history in which it has had a much weaker hand than London, both before and after winning independence from Britain.

The EU's two most powerful leaders, Germany's Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron, will meet at the Elysee Palace on Sunday ahead of next week's summit.

"We want to reduce the negative effects, even if there is a disorderly Brexit, in both countries," Merkel said.

Macron said on Thursday Britain would have to pay the price should it decide to proceed with a position over Brexit that is unacceptable for the other 27 EU countries.

"If they don't want to make any move or make something which is not accepted, they will have to take the responsibility," he said.

(Additional reporting by William James; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Alistair Smout Janet Lawrence)

[greybeard]

EU, British negotiators hold 'constructive' meeting on Brexit deal as departure date nears
Reuters By Gabriela Baczynska and Jonas Ekblom,Reuters

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-bre...070736883.html

By Gabriela Baczynska and Jonas Ekblom

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The British and European Union chief Brexit negotiators held a "constructive" meeting in Brussels on Friday, both sides said, as efforts to secure a deal by Britain's scheduled departure date of Oct. 31 intensified.

EU negotiator Michel Barnier and his British counterpart Stephen Barclay met over breakfast following a burst of optimism after the British and Irish prime ministers said on Thursday they had found "a pathway" to a possible deal.

The United Kingdom is due to leave the world's biggest trading bloc on Oct. 31 and despite the flurry of activity, it remains unclear on what terms it will leave or indeed whether it will do so at all.

"Be patient," Barnier told reporters as he left the meeting and went on to brief the 27 EU states who will stay on. "Brexit is like climbing a mountain. We need vigilance, determination and patience."

The British government also said the meeting was constructive.

An EU spokeswoman said they were working towards a deal. No details were immediately disclosed, however.

Earlier on Friday in the Cypriot capital Nicosia, European Council President Donald Tusk said he had received "promising signals" from Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar that a deal was still possible.

But he tempered this by saying: "Of course, there is no guarantee of success and the time is practically up. But even the slightest chance must be used."

DOWN TO THE WIRE

Sterling see-sawed on the various pronouncements, which came at the end of a tumultuous week in which Brexit negotiations have shifted wildly, starting with a public row between London and Brussels.

Both sides are anxious to avoid taking the blame should the deadline for Britain's departure arrive with no deal secured.

Tusk said he had previously told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson that unless a workable solution came from London by Friday Oct. 11, he would announce that a deal was all but impossible at a summit of EU leaders next Thursday and Friday.

Varadkar told Irish reporters on Thursday after his meeting with Johnson: "I think it is possible for us to come to an agreement, to have a treaty agreed, to allow the UK to leave the EU in an orderly fashion and to have that done by the end of October."

In a joint statement, the two leaders said they could "see a pathway to a possible deal", though officials on both sides were silent about what compromises - if any - had been made to break the Brexit deadlock over Ireland's border.

To get a deal done, Johnson must overcome the complexities of the Irish border before getting the approval of Europe's biggest powers - and then sell any deal to the British parliament, which he suspended unlawfully last month and where he has no majority.

Parliament has passed a law saying that Britain cannot leave the bloc without a deal. Johnson, the face of the 2016 Brexit referendum campaign, insists the country will leave on Oct. 31 with or without an agreement but he has not explained how that will be possible without defying parliament.

The Brexit issue has deeply polarised the country and many businesses fear they will be hit badly by a disorderly break with the EU in just a few weeks a time.

Education minister Gavin Williamson on Friday restated the government's line that Britain would leave the EU on Oct. 31, come what may, telling ITV: "We need to see the European Union shift."

Ireland is crucial if a deal is to be done to avert a potentially disorderly Brexit that would hurt global growth, roil financial markets and could even split the United Kingdom.

Dublin will have to consent to any solution to the hardest Brexit riddle of all: how to prevent the British province of Northern Ireland becoming a backdoor into the EU's markets without having controls at the border.

The Irish border has been largely invisible since British army checkpoints were taken down after a 1998 peace deal largely ended the violence between members of the region's pro-British majority and an Irish nationalist minority.

(Editing by Angus MacSwan)

[Matthew]

Jeff Taylor with a summary on where we are 20 days before Brexit day

TL;DR
British MP's in favour of 'remain' (contrary to the referendum result) will probably block a general election again... (for obvious reasons!)

Brexit Negotiations go into 'The Tunnel'

News is developing that the UK and EU have had some form of Brexit breakthrough, as Michel Barnier has been given the green light to get the talks into the intense 'Tunnel' phase.
...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5Vin69URKSw

My own thoughts:
The remainer MPs talk of a second referendum also known as a 'peoples vote' when we had a peoples vote with the original referendum, and if they want to give the people a vote they should stop blocking a general election. Again, a blatant slight against democracy. Bring on a general election cowards

[greybeard]

It's impossible to ‘succeed’ in the Brexit talks – this is one of the stupidest things a country has ever done
The Independent Tom Peck,The Independent

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/impossible...152855148.html

There appears to be a slight sense of jubilation emerging, even among sensible people, that the very worst of Brexits might be avoided.

Ireland and the EU, though not the UK, just yet, are intimating that a Brexit deal could be done. What that would mean for British people is that the very worst impacts of Brexit – the ones that involve food shortages, fuel shortages, medicine shortages and widespread civil unrest (and this is the government’s own analysis) – would not come to pass.

Hallelujah! Appears to be the word of the hour. What rubbish.

That there is even a glimmer of a chance that Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Dominic Cummings and the rest deserve any kind of credit for narrowly avoiding the worst iteration of a crisis that is 100 per cent their fault is obscene.

We have, we are told, moved in to the “tunnel” phase of the negotiations. A wondrously apt phrase, except that, by comparison, the tunnel in which we have spent the last three years has been fairly well illuminated, and the destination at the end is only darkness.

If UK leaves the EU in three weeks time – still very much an “if”, at this stage, despite the “no ifs, no buts” drivel Gavin Williamson and other government ministers are prepared to spout on the radio – it should do absolutely nothing to conceal the self-evident fact that Brexit represents the most colossal failure of statecraft in this country’s history.

That should not be a controversial statement, not even for Brexiteers. Of course, for Brexiteers, Brexit is a success, against the odds. But it is nevertheless still true that the UK will have been taken out of the European Union by accident, by a government led by a prime minister, David Cameron, who didn’t want it to happen.

Whether Boris Johnson actually wanted to win the referendum is a much debated point. It is certainly true that he didn't think he would, and didn't consider losing an obstacle to his career (there would still have been a Tory leadership election in 2019. He would have been in a very strong position to win it).

And it is certainly true that, should we leave the EU on 31 October, we will do so on terms that will be orders of magnitude more economically harmful than anyone ever promised. “I am a fan of the single market, I would vote to stay in the single market,” Johnson said before the referendum.

We will not be staying in the single market. We will be putting up barriers to trade with the largest free trade bloc in the world, which also has the immense advantage of being our geographical neighbours.

The contours of the deal that appears to be forming is one that leaves Northern Ireland effectively within the EU’s customs union, but also able to benefit from any future trade deals the UK might strike. "Benefit" is a word used very loosely indeed. All sensible analysis indicates that barriers to trade that will come in to force by leaving the EU will shrink GDP by up to seven percent by 2030. And new trade deals with other countries could mitigate those losses by 0.5 per cent. That forecast is unlikely to come to pass with any real precision, but the idea it could be out by the kind of degree that makes Brexit economically worthwhile is absurd.

Asked exactly what the deal meant, all Johnson would say is this: “I can certainly tell you we will not see anything that prevents the whole of the United Kingdom from taking full advantage of the opportunities of Brexit.”

It remains to be seen whether the DUP and the ERG support the deal, if this is what it looks like and should it ever come before the commons. They have been scathing of similar-looking deals in the past.

In the medium-to-long term, the real risk such a deal poses to Brexit is altogether different.

The best hope for Brexiteers, and the outcome forecasted by all major investment banks, is that a negotiated Brexit will not lead to an economic cliff edge but instead open a slow puncture. The latter is arguably more harmful. What Jacob Rees-Mogg and the rest hope is that the slow depletion of the British economy will be slow enough to obscure any real discernible point at which people notice their economic prospects and life chances have diminished.

A cliff edge is a call to action. A slow puncture is not.

But special status for Northern Ireland is potentially problematic. If a small part of the United Kingdom in effect retains the economic benefits of EU membership despite having left, and flourishes while the rest of the UK declines, it will serve as a remain call to arms. This is a highly likely outcome. It is why most Northern Irish businesses loved the backstop. For them, it was the best of both worlds. Only a small band of Union Jack-waving unionist politicians disliked it.

There is a very real prospect that, in the coming decade, a resurgent Belfast will serve as a living, breathing testament to Brexit – one of the stupidest things any major country has ever done. It will be a reminder that will pose significant problems for Johnson, Gove and the rest, whose last best hope is that the people never quite work out what was taken from them, for no cause beyond their own crushing vanity.
Read more

Johnson hints at major Brexit climbdown over customs union

Live: EU gives green light for secret negotiations on PM’s plan

Pound surges against dollar and euro as brexit deal talks intensify

Hate crime surged during Brexit ‘surrender’ bill debates in parliament

Major boost for Boris Johnson as EU agrees to intensify Brexit talks

[Matthew]

We've only started negotiating, and this is because Boris played his own 'no deal by proxy' - by playing hard-ball. This meant the EU Commission started to realise a few home truths... Strangely since that day (8th October 2019) actual talking seems to have been happening.

Who knows what the next few days holds. The behaviour of the EU Commission has been laid bare and the ultimate court is the court of public opinion. A general election would have sorted this out at any of the points Boris called for one.

Too many precedents have been broken, it's non stop breaking of Parliamentary precedents, in days when a backbench bill passed through with an SO24 overturns a a record turnout direct democratic vote, and a confirmatory general election was expected when Boris called for them, and would have been situation normal, but instead our elected representatives don't want to check if it's OK for them to go back on their promise of upholding the referendum result

Boris' hard-ball started the first hint we had of 'good negotiations', even though the EU Commission ultimately does not want to negotiate, it wants to build an empire (in a dreadful hurry to unite Europe) - anyone who understands the difference between tyranny and negotiation will understand how this works. Boris starting with the difficult truth means he is being honest, and honestly working towards a deal in good faith.

The EU commission want territory under their rule, their flag, their army, their national anthem. All but the flag were ambitions they strongly denied, and the argument is that Remain didn't know what they were voting for

Here is the point Boris started being honest that we want to leave


Published 8th October 2019
Boris Goes Nuclear, We Will Revoke Entire Eu Legal Order Without Further Talks & Leave

Warning: this video presenter uses strong vulgar language throughout

The really interesting bit of the video is at 1:05, here is a link to jump to that bit

https://youtu.be/OdCsLzf4ScU?

Who knows what will happen, but I believe the mainstream is pushing what they want, rather than what is/has been going on

[Matthew]

Here is a (complex) summary from Jeff Taylor of where we are 19 days to Brexit day


TL;DR
Boris has to work towards a deal in good faith or leave with no deal on Oct 31st or he risks going down in the polls just before our (overdue) general election

This could be a high risk Brexit strategy!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=24sNP8BPdSg

[greybeard]

Well hope he pulls it off.
This has gone on for far too long.
Chris

[greybeard]

Sturgeon: I’ll request consent for indyref2 by the end of the year
PA Media: UK News By Lucy Christie, PA Scotland,PA Media: UK News

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sturgeon-l...100045221.html

Nicola Sturgeon has said she will request UK Government consent for another referendum on Scottish independence before the end of the year.

Scotland’s First Minister revealed she will ask Downing Street for a Section 30 order “over the next matter of weeks” as she presses ahead with plans to hold a vote in the latter half of 2020.

The Referendums (Scotland) Bill, which makes provision for such a vote, was produced by the Scottish Government in May.

The SNP leader told the Andrew Marr show: “I’m putting legislation through the Scottish Parliament right now, to put the rules and regulations in place.

“As that legislation progresses we will make that request for a Section 30 order.”

Asked if she will request the order this year, Ms Sturgeon replied “yes”.

Asked if it will be this month, she said: “We will do it at an appropriate moment when the legislation is passing.

“It is likely to be over the next matter of weeks. It is coming soon.

“Of course we don’t yet know who is likely to be in Downing Street, the situation is very fluid.”

As the SNP annual conference opened in Aberdeen on Sunday, the First Minister reiterated her view that holding a legal referendum is the only route for Scotland to secure independence.

Some party activists want a “plan B” option for independence if the UK Government continues with its opposition to granting a Section 30 order, such as holding a Catalonian-style wildcat poll or taking winning a majority of seats at Westminster as a go-ahead for independence negotiations.

In an article in the Sunday Mail, Mrs Sturgeon wrote: “I will not fall into the trap that our unionist opponents want me to, by deviating from our current path of ensuring the next independence referendum is legal and constitutional.

“We don’t need to be talking about plan B when we have a perfectly good plan A – especially when any plan B is exactly the route many opponents of independence would like us to go down.

“If we were to try to hold a referendum that wasn’t recognised as legal and legitimate – or to claim a mandate for independence without having demonstrated majority support for it – it would not carry the legal, political and diplomatic weight that is needed.”

[Matthew]

Posted by YoYoYo (here)
...
Take the Scottish National Party (SNP) - they are pro-remain, and yet the dissolving of national identity would seem to go against the idea of a 'National' party. And I don't think people quite understand the ambition of the European Commissions main players - they want national identity to go, for their benefit, and they're in a desperate hurry...

It's not my country, and if another country want independence from something, as I've said time after time, they should get what they want - rightly so.

I hope for their sake their referendum is honoured.

I bump the above because nationality gets in the way of the EU empire, even though it's easy to think it will never happen to you, the signs of the Commission want to dissolve national identity get stronger

[greybeard]

Police across country put on standby for London’s million-plus protest day
The Guardian Mark Townsend,The Guardian.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/police-acr...081306067.html


Police forces in England and Wales are on standby for what could be one of the biggest public protests in British history, the anti-Brexit march due to take place in central London on Saturday 19 October.

As MPs gather in the House of Commons for an emergency weekend sitting to discuss Brexit, more than a million people are expected to mass outside parliament for a People’s Vote march, while Extinction Rebellion climate campaigners launch the finale to a near fortnight of continuous protest.

Scotland Yard confirmed it was expecting a huge event and was liaising with the National Police Coordination Centre (NPoCC), which is responsible for the deployment of officers from across the UK to assist during large-scale events.

Deputy assistant commissioner Laurence Taylor, who is in charge of policing Saturday’s march, said: “We have considered what the event may entail and we will continue to monitor the resource level that we have. UK policing, let alone the Met, has very significant capacity and capability and if we need to draw on that, we will certainly do.”

Tom Baldwin, director of communications for People’s Vote, said that despite the special parliamentary sitting, the Met had signalled it would allow the march to Parliament Square, where Extinction Rebellion protesters are camped.

Talks over which group controls Parliament Square on the actual day indicate that Extinction Rebellion is likely to surrender its prime spot to accommodate the anti-Brexit protest, which could form the biggest public rally Britain has ever witnessed.

To date, the two largest public protests have been the Iraq war rally in 2003 and the last People’s Vote march held six months ago, which both drew more than a million people.

Baldwin added: “It does look like it’s going to be a very, very large event, without any doubt one of the largest protests this country has ever seen.”

For next weekend’s People’s Vote march, its third in the capital, 172 coaches have so far been booked from across the country, compared to 130 last time.

The number of individuals who have signed up to say they will attend the latest march is also already significantly higher. A campaign to raise funds for Saturday’s event reached its target of £500,000 with a week to spare.

Baldwin added: “Boris Johnson wants to run a campaign of the people versus the politicians. On Saturday you’re going to get politicians like Boris Johnson sitting inside the Houses of Parliament trying to force a form of Brexit on the British people and the people will be outside parliament demanding a final say.”

It is not yet apparent what form the Extinction Rebellion protest on 19 October will take, other than that it is scheduled to be the climax of 13 days of protest that have so far seen more than 1,100 people arrested since they began last Monday.

The rate of arrest – described by a spokesperson for Extinction Rebellion as an “astonishing number” – has even prompted speculation that the group might struggle to fulfil its protests for another week.

“We are still assessing what [the October 19 policing plan] is going to look like and how that works in conjunction with any Extinction Rebellion protest, if indeed the Extinction Rebellion protest is still ongoing,” said Taylor.

[greybeard]

Posted by YoYoYo (here)

Posted by YoYoYo (here)
...
Take the Scottish National Party (SNP) - they are pro-remain, and yet the dissolving of national identity would seem to go against the idea of a 'National' party. And I don't think people quite understand the ambition of the European Commissions main players - they want national identity to go, for their benefit, and they're in a desperate hurry...

It's not my country, and if another country want independence from something, as I've said time after time, they should get what they want - rightly so.

I hope for their sake their referendum is honoured.

I bump the above because nationality gets in the way of the EU empire, even though it's easy to think it will never happen to you, the signs of the Commission want to dissolve national identity get stronger

Agreed YoYoYo
If you look at the history of Scots in sport apart from a select few. Always when victory is in sight it alludes.
There seems to be a self put down--Dont deserve to winn--not good enough or whatever inbuilt psychology is in there.
We are brought on self effacing sayings . What make you think you can!!! No better than they should be!! rising above their station!! the list is endless, so when push to comes to shove, I dont think home rule will happen.
However!!!
Scotland has close ties to both the South and North of Ireland and is well aware that the south has done well out of the EU--so if a Boris deal does not suit Scotland then who knows what will happen.
Im not actually a great fan of nationalism--its contributed to conflict--great and small.
At least we have had no war with Europe since the last one and the trade between has helped to keep the peace.
Its a multifaceted situation-- pro and con for Brexit or stay.
Ether way there will be benefits.
Winners and losers.

Chris

[Matthew]

Nationalism is historically bad, but when strong nationalism becomes a global ambition ...the problems happen then.

The recent trend in nationalism is much more about a backlash to globalism; like nationalism to stop our country's mucking about in foreign issues.

Here national boundaries become the antidote to global empire building, because the EU is trying to grab land. Nationalism stops it. The EU has left a trail of national independence stirring, unrest and possibly (so the rumours are) a war in the Ukraine. The UK is simply the latest in their land grab ...we need a trade deal, not a constitution where we hand our army over/

If you think you have a shot at fairness with the EU, I wish I could convince you otherwise. Under the EU there will be so little voice, civil unrest could possibly start and with a military force, my worst fear is you may find an armed force from another of the EU countries imposing rule. - How would the EU have dealt with Greece a few years ago if it had an 'EU army' - I don't share my own fears often but some might see my point of view

[greybeard]

Oh yes I see your point of view YoYoYo.
So a rebellion is staged and foreign troops brought it to quell it.
Most times we have been the foreign troops
UK has a bloody past with Scots being on the front line--cannon fodder so to speak.
We are supposed to be a "human" race civilized.
Accepting that the last world war against Nazi was probably fought for the right reason and its as well we won.
However we only have armies because we have fear of an oppressor. Who???
In this day and age an army should not be necessary.
Bit off topic
But I certainly dont disagree with your take YoYoYo
Chris