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Thread: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    The EU on the brink of collapse due to infighting
    In this video we look at an article that states that the EU is dying and its down to merkel(hard to disagree there)
    YouTube channel, Rotten Politics, looks at reports from The Express about EU personality in-fighting. Junker being the one with integrity, working hard to maintain the European state while others look like they are reverting to their original nation states

    This video presents a very anti-European Commission bias


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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Eurozone Breakup Risk Reaches New High

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...aches-new-high


    What's in the water in Karlsruhe? Because the German supreme court is on a tear through the EU...




    Europe In Crisis: German Judges Strike Back, Say ECB Isn't "Master Of The Universe"

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/eu...aster-universe
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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    NISSAN doesn't think UK, brexit and the big T revolution is screwed.


    It's the EU Nissan is dropping.



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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Unfortunately I think its all irrelevant with "The Great Reset" Norman
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1359573

    Chris
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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    We'll see about that, Chris . . . . .
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    We'll see about that, Chris . . . . .
    I hope you are right Norman, but I would not bet on anything at the moment.
    New World Oder seems a likely winner.
    So many sleep walking into loss of freedom.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    We'll see about that, Chris . . . . .
    I hope you are right Norman, but I would not bet on anything at the moment.
    New World Oder seems a likely winner.
    So many sleep walking into loss of freedom.
    Chris

    I guess that's always been the difference between enlightenment and faith Chris.


    best wishes.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    We'll see about that, Chris . . . . .
    I hope you are right Norman, but I would not bet on anything at the moment.
    New World Oder seems a likely winner.
    So many sleep walking into loss of freedom.
    Chris

    I guess that's always been the difference between enlightenment and faith Chris.


    best wishes.
    Yet strangely enough I have faith that given time the situation -- all the various aspects of it--will come right for the good of all decent fair minded people.

    Best wishes Norman
    Chris
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Boris Johnson loves U-turns. Let's hope this extends to a no-deal Brexit
    [The Guardian]
    Simon Jenkins
    The Guardian19 June 2020

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-john...130848259.html

    Boris Johnson loves U-turns. Let's hope this extends to a no-deal Brexit


    Britain could be the first developed economy to be sabotaged by maths. Not by war, ideology or disease, but maths. The prime minister is said to be mesmerised by models.

    Related: Failure of Brexit talks could lead to terrorism intelligence delays, say Lords

    One is the coronavirus model of a “second spike” and half a million deaths, creation of Imperial College London statisticians, led by the epidemiologist Neil Ferguson. The other is the Brexit model of Professor Patrick Minford, forecasting a surge of 4% in British growth in the event of a hard Brexit. Both modellers have their critics. But no matter. To Boris Johnson, the model is god. Forget common sense. Maths cannot lie. The models hover over today’s Downing Street like two swords of Damocles.

    Johnson can reasonably argue that he was not alone in following Imperial College to blanket lockdown. He meant well. But now he is trapped by it. Despite his project fear and its poll approval, lockdown failed to stem Europe’s second worst death rate. According to the OECD, it is also about to inflict on Britain Europe’s worst recession – an 11.5% fall in GDP, compared with Germany’s 6.6%. Unemployment without equal since the 1930s may result.

    One might think that, having cut off the economy’s two legs, Johnson might be kind to its arms. But no. This week he and his Brexiter colleague Michael Gove indicated that talks with the EU on a trade deal had stalled. There was no way they would seek the extension on offer at the end of this month. They are putting it about that, with the economy in ruins anyway, no one will actually notice more blood spilt over stalled EU trade.

    Like many half-hearted remainers, I have accepted Brexit as a new reality. But I could never imagine no trade deal with the EU. It was and is barking mad. As with blanket lockdown, no-deal Brexit is treated by Johnson and Gove as undergraduate psychology – of bluff, double-bluff and debating points. They regard the EU’s Michel Barnier as the cad of the lower fifth. Put him against the wall, they jeer, and he will fold.

    There is absolutely no reason for failing to extend the current EU talks, at least until heads on both sides can clear. The British economy, partly through the government’s own fault, faces appalling contraction. The economy’s second biggest sector, hospitality and tourism, has been devastated.

    Johnson may think Britons are so bound up in the horrors of his first model that they will not notice the horrors of the second. Apart from such irresponsibility, that cannot apply to businesses and their employees. British exporters face an instant tariff wall from January. Farmers may have to slaughter animals. Aviation, policing, and food and medicine supply chains will choke. Banking arrangements may be cobbled together, but the trickle of financial emigration to Europe’s capitals will become a flood. And for what? So Johnson can keep his appointment with his own chosen date.

    Searchers after comfort may find some in the prime minister’s addiction to U-turns. He made a significant one last year when he agreed to an unavoidable customs border with Northern Ireland. Peering through the murk, we can see the hope of a compromise on fish, where at least Britain has right on its side.

    Other EU concessions are harder to discern. A grownup arrangement should be possible on trade arbitration. One is less plausible on common trading standards. Compliance to such standards is the essence of a sophisticated free market between adjacent economies, but Johnson seems averse. The idea that a deal with the US might ever compensate for the EU, let alone now, is fantastical.

    In other words, a version of the old single-market option of sharing Europe’s “economic area” should make as much sense to a Eurosceptic as to a former remainer. It is said that the necessary concessions – or U-turns – could be cobbled together by Christmas. But this involves Downing Street genuinely wanting it.

    Why Johnson should want to put British businesses and their workers through the hell of yet more uncertainty is a mystery. He says he must keep faith with those who voted for Brexit, but this is infantile. They were a narrow majority, and were never asked to vote for no deal. A poll last month was emphatic. Three-quarters of respondents do not want to leave the EU without a deal. That includes 64% of Tories and 57% of leavers.

    There cannot be a majority for no deal in parliament. Keir Starmer and the opposition have a duty to do all they can to force Downing Street to reverse its intransigence. They must stop Johnson doubling-down on insanity, and declare death to the models and the maths.

    • Simon Jenkins is a Guardian columnist

    Now this is what really concerns me.
    If the projections in the video below come to pass then Brexit without a deal could play a major part in decreasing the population through food shortage.
    Lets face it a lot of our food comes from Europe.
    No deal chaos at ports.
    I really hope I am miss reading this.
    Chris





    Food supplies could be hit more by no-deal Brexit than Covid-19, experts claim

    [PA Media: UK News]
    Katrine Bussey, PA Scotland Political Editor
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/food-suppl...115850716.html

    A no-deal Brexit may have a far more severe impact on food supplies than coronavirus, according to academics.

    Experts from Scotland’s Rural College (SRUC) have warned possible price hikes could make it harder for some people to consume the recommended five portions a day of fruit and vegetables.

    They looked at what could happen if the UK fails to secure a Brexit deal before the transition period expires at the end of December.

    Cesar Revoredo-Giha and Montserrat Costa-Font, from SRUC’s food marketing research team, said: “Whilst Covid-19 has already had an impact on prices and imports, a no-deal Brexit may have far more severe effects on the food chain.”

    They warned “the effect of a no-deal Brexit may disrupt the fruit and vegetable supply in multiple ways”.

    The pair spoke out after comparing the price of 20 fruits and vegetables between March and April this year and the same period last year.

    During the coronavirus crisis, imports of fruit and vegetables from the EU fell, with the prices of onions up by 26.7% between March and April.

    Over the same period, the prices of mushrooms and tomatoes also increased by more than 10%.

    They noted the “significant price differences” in a blog post published by the London School of Economics and Political Science.

    The pair said the UK is “highly dependent” on imports of both fruit and vegetables, adding: “On vegetables, the UK imports more than half of the tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, mushrooms, peppers and lettuce it consumes.

    “Between 75% and 100% of these products were imported from the EU in 2019.

    “This share did not vary much during Covid-19, except in the case of tomatoes and onions, where we do observe a reduction of EU imports during the first quarter of 2020.”

    The SRUC experts added such “disruptions” to the supply of fruit and veg could “exert important effects on their price and, potentially, consumption in the UK”.

    They said: “This can have important effects on the nutrition of the UK population, particularly for those with limited income, hampering any improvement towards the five-a-day goal.”

    Figures for across the UK showed that in 2018 just over a quarter (28%) of adults were eating the recommended five portions of fruit and vegetables per day – with people consuming on average 3.7 portions.

    Fewer men than women meet the five-a-day guideline, while only 18% of children aged between five and 15 managed to eat five servings of fruit and vegetables per day.
    Last edited by greybeard; 22nd June 2020 at 20:13.
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU


    Boris Johnson is playing a dangerous Brexit game. A transition extension is the only way to protect people’s health and livelihoods

    Layla Moran
    The Independentyesterday



    I recently launched Build Back Better, a new booklet of radical ideas for the Liberal Democrats in a post-coronavirus world. In among the 128-pages of policy and political reflection, I call for more cross-party working, particularly on the centre-left.

    In the long term, working with other parties will help us all make progress on our common causes: protecting the environment and reducing inequality, for instance. In the much more immediate term, cross-party working, across the whole of parliament, is vital to prevent a damaging no-deal Brexit.

    A no-deal Brexit means uncertainty for businesses. It means more job losses and reduced access to medication. I believe our country has suffered enough this year, without adding more misery on top. So, I believe that we, as a country, need to do everything we can to avoid no deal. And that means extending the transition period, to allow ourselves more time to negotiate a deal with the EU.

    It’s not just Remain politicians who think this. The public thinks it too. All the excellent polling work by Best for Britain shows that people want the government to focus on the crisis in front of them and avoid a no-deal Brexit. This was particularly true in polling from the “red wall” seats, many of which will bear the brunt of the economic impact of a no-deal Brexit.

    Unfortunately, our prime minister and government are yet to grasp this. They are so intent on leaving the EU on 31 December, by any means, that they are actively putting ideology ahead of people’s health and livelihoods.

    Rather than focusing on the coronavirus response, they are redeploying resources back to no-deal planning, and refusing to take the opportunity to extend the transition period. This is an extraordinarily dangerous path to take the country on; and the prime minister is gambling with more than just his majority.

    So what can we do, as the clock ticks down to 30 June (our deadline for requesting an extension)? Well, we managed to stop the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal once, and we can do it again. It isn’t too late.

    I am leading a cross-party effort, teaming up with Labour backbenchers and Green, SNP and Plaid Cymru MPs on a bill that could pull us back from the brink. On Monday I presented the bill, which would revoke the government’s ban on itself requesting an extension and enable parliament, the people’s representatives, to have a say on whether to extend the transition period or not, beyond 30 June.

    Neither the people nor parliament have had their say on Brexit and the transition period since coronavirus struck our country. It has had a devastating health and economic impact, and changed the way we think about so many aspects of life.

    So, I hope politicians from across the Commons, including from the Conservative Party and the leader of the opposition, Keir Starmer, will join us in sending Boris Johnson a clear and simple message: it’s not too late. I hope they will join us in backing this bill and calling for a vote on extending this transition period, to ensuring the government is compelled to focus on the real crisis right now: the coronavirus pandemic.

    To the prime minister, I say this: take this branch you’re being offered. Put the power in the hands of the people’s representatives, and then work with us to extend the transition period and do right by the people of this country, who have suffered enough this year.

    Businesses can’t move forward under the threat of a no deal. People can’t move forward if they lose their jobs because of a no deal. Our health services can’t move forward if resources are removed to prepare for a no deal.

    This debate needs to be had, these arguments need to be heard, and the transition period must be extended.

    Layla Moran is the Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West and Abingdon and a candidate for the party’s leadership
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Hmmmm.
    New to the forum and a large thread to read through.
    I have always vehemently opposed Brexit - as I see it as a Tory construct to remove it's shackles of adhearance to rights for those that are not part of their top elite. A means to impose greater sanctions, restrictions on us. A way forward to the removal of many of our freedoms.
    I dont trust the Torys - and I shudder to think what they will do to the country with a free reign.
    I have some reading to do to see if anything here will change my mind.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Welcome safra.
    I was against leaving -- better the devil you know so to speak.
    I now understand better the reasons for leaving, however, terrible timing.
    In the middle of draconian restrictions -- we may face a food shortage or much more expensive products down to the twin whammies.
    Chris
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    UK Avalon Member scanner's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    The game of chess is very technical, we're on the defensive but not quite mate, yet.
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    They are going to have to delay it in the current climate surely?


    A subject I am passionate about - taking the time to read through the whole thread.
    Please excuse if I make a few concurrent posts quoting people
    Last edited by safara; 6th November 2020 at 17:01.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by Longjohn (here)
    Dear Guys,

    Don't kid yourselves. Britain will now be the economic victim of its ill-informed parochialism. It did not vote to leave the EU on the grounds of sensible, well presented arguments. The 'Leave' campaign nailed its colours onto an anti-immigration, pro-sovereignty bandwagon. Both sides were guilty of negative campaigning, but at least the 'Remain' campaign warned people of the economic consequences of such a drastic change. If the Germans decided to leave the EU, then they would survive because they have a strong economy and the world needs its goods. The British economy is hopelessly weak, burdened with deficit and was only kept going by the positive perception of the financial markets.

    Once the 'Leavers' get over their silly triumphalism, the party will turn sour and they will slowly realise the damage that this move will wreak on Britain's status in the world, its economy, their people's wealth, pensions and their own children's future.

    From my own point of view, I'm an engineer working in Switzerland, but I have family in the UK. I see nothing but harm to young people's opportunities, Britain's educational institutions, its R&D base, its ability to attract investment, and for its people to believe that they are part of one world.

    Britain will now retreat into its past glories...

    With regrets,

    John

    As true today as it was over 4 years ago.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Scottish Independence.
    I think this will be really knocked on the head, reason being that Scotland derives quite an income from tourism -- which will be dead in the water for quite some time.
    Chris
    Tourism will bounce very quickly. I have a small AirBNB here in Wales and the MINUTE a local Covid restriction is lifted, we have enquiries. If the offering is right, and in Scotland and Wales this is simply not being in England LOL, people will want to come and stay.

    Re: Welsh independence - the Yes Cymru movement has grown in the last 2 months from nothing to having more piad up members that any other political party in Wales bar Labour.
    Wales is waking up to the fact that Westiminster does not give a toss about it, and other facts like Wales gto more back from the EU every month than it paid to it. And no way in hell is Westminster going to do anything about that :D
    Self Determination and rejoining the EU, along with partners like Scotland is becoming a viable thing to push towards.

    Less than 2 months to a No Deal Exit - less when you lump in the Xmas break and 4 weeks of English lockdown.

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    All credit to you safra -- you are doing your home work.
    While I get the deep political undercurrents- cutting ties with your closes and best customer does not make sense.
    At the moment it is a level playing field as far as goods in goods out goes to Europe.
    The timing is terrible.
    Of course union should never happened in the first place from some points of view and thats valid

    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Chief Rat is forced to jump ship, before the Brexit hits the fan.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54938050

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    Default Re: The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

    Quote Posted by safara (here)
    Chief Rat is forced to jump ship, before the Brexit hits the fan.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54938050
    Goodbye Dominic Cummings, the ‘tour de force’ of Barnard Castle lockdown for eyesight tests. How have you survived at No 10 soooo loooong? Pathetic. That is indicative of the ‘leadership’ in the sinking ship of Boris - a laughing stock, grovelling for advice to ‘Kill Gates’ as to whom should be annihilated next 🤬🤬🤬
    The love you withhold is the pain that you carry
    and er..
    "Chariots of the Globs" (apols to Fat Freddy's Cat)

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Last edited by norman; 17th November 2020 at 10:14.
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