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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Hi all

    I recently spent an afternoon listening to Christopher Bollyn present his extensive research on 9/11 . http://www.bollyn.com Chris is a great guy and he has done an enormous amount of research in which many in the community agree with.

    However, I part ways with him on the how, the mechanics of the event etc, but agree with most of his other research as to the who's, the motive, the who benefits and so on.

    Many in the community have no tolerance for this and see this as partial truth and a "limited hangout" It seems you either have to be 100% correct on everything or your put into a disinfo bin.

    The Dr Judy Wood view , that the buildings dustified makes sense to me when looking at seismic records,( the lack of ), the free fall speed, the fireman surviving in stairwell B looking up and seeing blue sky the hollowing out of building 6 and the lack of a rubble
    pile from 2- 500thousand ton buildings. it just doesn't add up.

    This is in agreement by Andrew Johnson, Rich Hall and many others.

    The Richard Gage view is thermite, which Chris Bollyn agrees with among many.

    Then there is the no plane idea/ Morgan Reynolds, John Lear, etc

    And Gordon Duff and company on the mini nukes idea.

    What I would like an opinion on is, do you feel that for research to be valid, it has to be all in agreement with a particular theory or camp ? Can you accept that one may have the answer in one area and not another? Or do you require all to be aligned with one view?

    I ask this because I don't see any progress being made if all are constantly calling the others, disinfo agents and fighting. Any newly awakening person needs to get their foot in the door on this most complex and perplexing event. Isn't it enough to get a person to be willing to accept that it was not what the government has told us? Then go from there.

    I believe the info isn't in yet to understand this event. Knowing what Tesla was on to 75 years ago and seeing what the Hutchinson effect shows us must be the tip of the iceberg in my view of the incredible tech being hidden from all.

    Is it all or nothing at all with these schools of thought? I am taken back by the lack of tolerance on many sites when you see it in a number of ways. Thoughts?
    Thanks much! D

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Baby Steps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Greetings.
    For me I kind of lose interest in all the much of it excellent speculation about how it was done and who did it, I agree this can lead newly looking people up blind alleys or into confusion.

    So many of the mind controlled people ask me - who did this - or why? Its a trap because they then put whatever postulation one supplies through their own filters and then form a judgement on the whole thing based on that. Really sad.

    It boils down to 'WE NEED A PROPER INVESTIGATION'

    Why?

    because the official conspiracy theory does not stand up to investigation.

    Why?

    I then hold on to the two basic definitive points that I have.

    1. Tower 7 is admitted to have fallen at free fall acceleration for over 3 seconds. In basic physics this means definitively and categorically that there was NO RESISTANCE from the structure, and it follows that all structural columns failed at that point, which could never happen from random fires.
    2. If you project a profile of the jet liner onto the pre-collapse Pentagon frontage, there is an intact column where one engine would have hit. So there could not have been a jet liner unless there was an engine in front of the building-which there was not.

    These are definitive, and justify an investigation.
    When writers and commentators speculate about different scenarios, there is a danger that sheeple are distracted from the core issues, and get lost in detail.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    United States Avalon Member wondering's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    One of the most thorough investigations has been done by Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth. They have PDF files that cover many aspects of the event.

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    wondering/ yes architects and engineers are in the thermite camp. however it leaves much to be explained. perhaps it was a combination of things.

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    Avalon Member Bingo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Dr. Joseph Farrell does it for me Doug. If you read his new book, Hidden Finance, Rogue Networks and Secret Sorcery, available at Amazon (Kindle around $12) you will read a fascinating, dot-connecting scenario. Also, again my opinion, his website, if joined, provides a lot of info on 911 and other topics, especially his vidchats which are international and very educational. Hope that helps.

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    I'd say that this is a very valid insight into the nature of everything; 9/11 simply being a big event that flushes it all into view.

    Vested interests have no problem employing people to throw a monkey wrench into every issue, much as ordinary folks at home can sit there for practically free and push "proof" while calling you an idiot.

    I don't have a pet theory on how it actually happened. The main thing it shows me is what a rotten failure of "leadership" we have, the deceptive and parasitical system of which, should be removed. And of course, exactly the opposite was done; more war, more "patriotic" homeland security, Federal Reserve continues to operate.

    Almost no "official story" has ever been honest. It's next to impossible to prove anything from crime scene forensics long after the event. Were "the system" removed, I believe there would be far fewer such crimes. Until then, it does what it does, kiting a babbling multitude remorselessly, while reinforcing itself.

    The broadest truth is that we were lied to about something. Whether that something was thermite, energy beams, shaped nuclear charges--those things would make a difference about specific criminal charges against individuals, but it doesn't do much about the actual offices of power.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    .
    These are all interesting questions. But I personally doubt if it really matters very much how the towers were brought down, what kind of missile hit the Pentagon, or even if the planes were real.

    I strongly suspect the community's natural curiosity about those kinds of details is being deliberately stoked to create disagreement — and distraction from the real issues.

    An example of the same is JFK's assassination. It really doesn't matter who the shooters were, or where they were. What's important is who gave the order, and why, and how it was all covered up afterwards, and — most importantly — who benefited, and how the world changed afterwards.

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Bill I suspect you are right but how sad. How sad and tragic that we have arrived here, and with all the investigation, we can't get on the same page. No wonder why my friends don't give a hoot and just keep on watching the entrainment box

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Bingo / yes I like Dr Farrell. however what I'm wondering about is this limited hangout concept. why the 9/11 community is so non tolerant to a combination of views and unknowns ?

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Bill,

    I'm sure you have you're own vague or not so vague ideas as to who the 'mighty manipulators' are. I'd love to know what you really think, if it is possible
    for you to speak to this on the forum. If not I understand. Thanks, in any case...........
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Just like the JFK murder , we may never know the truth ... the dark order is very good at deception ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    An investigation - a real one - would quickly center on a few people, and we would have to hope one of them would "crack" under interrogation. (If I believed in torture, I'd say Larry Silverstein would start singing like a canary after a few gallons.) The United States Joint Chiefs of Staff that were active during 9/11 would be another group where there is definitely foreknowledge and complicity. NORAD was shut down for 1.5 hours. That was no bumbling accident, and someone gave the order to do it. Now, that guy might fall on his sword and accept life in prison, or maybe would start singing to try to avoid dying in prison.

    So, I do think we could find out, but certainly not in a theatrical/kabuki "investigation"/production as was done by the 911 Commission, staffed with Elite lackeys and people whose lives have been threatened (I think of the bald-faced spokes-liar at NIST - perhaps he was given the option of lying for the government or watching a loved one die.)

    But, the one issue that almost everyone ignores is that the perpetrators are in charge. There cannot be any real investigation while the perpetrators are still in charge of the US government and military. That's why the most important thing that citizens could do would be to remove ALL of them from power, transform the electoral paradigm so that only ordinary citizens with no ties to the Elite can even run for office, and hold the first real elections in the USA. Holding an investigation where the perps control the courts is laughable.

    It's gonna take something as powerful as The Reset Button Movement for US citizens to gain control of our own governance. This should be our focus, our first step.

    The 'tag line' on The Reset Button Movement website says, "When citizens finally control elections... ...citizens will finally control governance.", and we can extend that to say: When citizens finally control governance, we can then accomplish a thousand things the Elite don't want accomplished - including holding a real investigation of 9/11 that results in convictions and lifetime prison sentences for the perpetrators.


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    United States Avalon Member Sean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    The ONLY reason I'd consider voting for Trump is, he might be crazy enough to round up Bush, Cheney, etc, assuming he gets a good AG in willing to "go there" with him. Trump is a New Yorker. Most of us, whether NY natives, transplants, etc, want 2 things: 1) Resolution, because everyone knows the official story is BS..and 2)Revenge. Trump knows who did this, and he just might take care of business.

    I agree with Bill. The details don't matter as much as who gave the order(Israel)but, if I had to pick a theory, mini-nukes make to most sense to me..and the science that VT threw down to prove it is thorough and convincing.
    Last edited by Sean; 1st July 2016 at 12:28.

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    I agree that it's pointless to need to know how the 9/11 events actually happened. As most have already realized some alternative media is under the heavy hand of the controllers and they want/need as much bogus information as possible to circulate so as to muddy the truth, so that we continue to do what we've always done, become distracted with habitual matters and forget to ask the important questions .

    What is important to remember is that it was a false flag event orchestrated from within the very governments the people elect to represent their interests, to manipulate reality and further an agenda that is harmful to humanity as a whole, and that some real people lost their lives for the cause, while perhaps others said to have died, may not have.
    “a complete understanding of reality lies beyond the capabilities of rational thought."
    ― Gary Zukav

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    This interview with Farrell suggests 911 was a divorce between the Cabal and the Nazis. In Summary the Cabal Planned only to fly the planes into the towers. That was enough to start a War on terror. Not to bring them down. However he claims the Nazis knew about it and hijacked the plan and used a space platform based weapon to turn the twin towers into dust. It came as a massive shock to the Cabal. It also exposed the Cabal to the world. How could jet fuel melt steel. etc. The 911 conspiracy woke up millions of people. (including me)

    Anyway if you have time check out the interview


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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Cheney gave the orders making NORAD AWOL on 9/11 -- as I recall some of the planes were sent to Alaska to
    watch Russia and some down South. Wherever they were, still could have responded within an hour and a half. It was the first thing which made me suspicious. W had made Cheney the Chief in Charge of everything for that day and days preceding.

    They were also opportunists in the sense that they tried for it all -- not only the basic first necessity of bringing down the WTC because the owners didn't want to pay for scaffolding and bringing the buildings down piece by piece, reversing the way they went up. They were White Elephants, difficult to rent, very costly to heat and cool -- asbestos problems. Military had to be involved, even if only Blackwater. Military materials used; perhaps even being tested. And, continuing practice of the art of deception with actors and fake press, while clearly our TV networks were involved in the scam, including in regard to videos being broadcast.

    And, as we always see in these false flag events, there are covering training missions. Even the young men handling the communications could clearly see the farce of it all -- asking, "Are we really supposed to believe this is coincidence?"

    And, Scalia was long making the argument that citizens really don't have the right to elect a president -- only Electoral College elects President and VP.

    When you take another look at our esteemed Constitution you find that what our Founders actually did was to
    create an Elite patriarchy, give only them the right to vote -- endowed them with land grants -- and gave them immense influence and control over our people's government, the nation's wealth and natural resources. They had quite a head start and they've had a few hundred years to ensure that their interests would overtake all attempts to create democracy.
    Last edited by Curious77; 2nd July 2016 at 05:25.

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    a gravity collapse? thermite? mini nukes and so on? what kind of chaos theory had the fireman in stairwell B not only survive, but lookup to greet an open sky? why did the building not fall down on them? were is all the rubble? the seismic readings and so on? as you can see, Dr Judy wood makes the most sense to me regarding thee and many more facts. but you have to allow yourself to say that as of now, we do not know or have this kind of tech. it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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    United States Avalon Member bluekungfoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    are there any other documentaries on possibilities of why the Twin Towers were brought down ?

    also It seems that it would take time to place explosives on the proper points of the towers to have them come down as they did, is the basic theory that in the chaos teams dressed as firefighters came in amidst the chaos and planted the explosives or are there other possibilities of how those explosives got in ?

    Also at this point in time, are there any more raw videos or unedited news videos of the events of 9/11 / websites or links on here ?

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    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    9/11 is an example of how thorough and well planned the cabal is. The twin towers were brought down by atleast 4 methods: thermite (as evidenced by chemical traces in rubble), missiles (under holographic cloaks, as evidenced by the only video of the first tower hit and a helicopter vid of second incoming), nukes in the foundations (as evidenced by redhot steel beams still scorching a week later) and a scalar weapon (evidenced by dustifying, lack of debris, etc.). The BBC off camera coverage of the owner giving the 'pull' demolish command on third building, and the fact he changed his wtc insurance a few months before the event to include airplane attack, should be enough evidence of an inside job for an unbiased observer.

    The cleverness of the planning of this event is evidenced by the withdrawal of all the gold from the twin towers a few weeks/days before, the insurance scam, the fact the buildings would eventually have to be ripped down because of asbestos insulation, etc. Also, supposedly a large bond redemption on the nyse was occuring at the time of the attack that apparently the cabal wanted covered up. In the aftermath the cabal used the 'terrorism' conjob to roll out the patriot act (to snoop on everyone), the invasion of iraq and afganistan, etc.

    All very cleverly planned and executed with mutiple intended consequences achieved.

    Another thoroughly planned job was the pentagon. Jesse Ventura has done an excellent analysis of this con job, in a vid called the pentagon. The number of 'tasks' that explosion took care of, like liquidating the navy audit department that was investigating the missing trillions in the military budget, is abhorrent. All the vid cameras' around the pentagon had all their films confiscated of this incident, all of which were 'lost'.

    The cabal takes no chances. Multiple destruction methods were taken on the twin towers. The pentagon only needed one method, probably because the building was under military control.

    The JFK assassination apparently had mutiple shooter teams, including James Files (of the grassy knoll fame). They werent going to let Kennedy survive, with changed parade route and all.

    The cabal are very nasty, very clever and very thorough. Great con artists too.

    The main benefit of understanding what happened in 9/11 is to be able to read the tell tale signs of cabal/illuminari activity in other events, current and historical, in order not to be 'conned'. Otherwise, this whole thing is very distasteful and can make one become paranoid.

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    .
    These are all interesting questions. But I personally doubt if it really matters very much how the towers were brought down, what kind of missile hit the Pentagon, or even if the planes were real.

    I strongly suspect the community's natural curiosity about those kinds of details is being deliberately stoked to create disagreement — and distraction from the real issues.

    An example of the same is JFK's assassination. It really doesn't matter who the shooters were, or where they were. What's important is who gave the order, and why, and how it was all covered up afterwards, and — most importantly — who benefited, and how the world changed afterwards.
    Agreed, completely. As long as people are arguing the details, the powers behind the deed can still call it a theory. Of course there's a conspiracy, but it's only a "theory."

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    Default Re: Would like opinions re 9/11 and approach to all other related events

    Quote Posted by bluekungfoo (here)
    are there any other documentaries on possibilities of why the Twin Towers were brought down ?

    also It seems that it would take time to place explosives on the proper points of the towers to have them come down as they did, is the basic theory that in the chaos teams dressed as firefighters came in amidst the chaos and planted the explosives or are there other possibilities of how those explosives got in ?
    No, I believe the word is that there had been teams of maintenance workers going in overnight for about two months, nobody really knew what they were doing, so this is thought to have been the access for rigging the building.

    My guess is the motivation was two-sided: a Neocon group was looking for "any" kind of Pearl Harbor event to launch wars on seven countries. Another group selected these targets, judging by the cash that vanished from the particular impact at the Pentagon and the...collateral demolition of WTC 7. Not just cash but gold and evidence about financial crimes.

    One single, normal plane crash into a building without destroying it, probably would not have been a big enough spectacle to accomplish any of this. The first thing that ever crossed my mind, was that if the most heavily protected airspace in the world, could be penetrated four times, everything invested in Defense was a waste.

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