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Thread: Exit America

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    United States Avalon Member bluekungfoo's Avatar
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    Default Exit America

    After Brittan's exit , the notion of States seceding from the Union , pop up from time to time, the only state that could come close to doing so is Texas but at what cost.

    The subject does require a good background in our constitution, and bill of rights , and knowing states individual rights vs the rights of the federal government, and then knowing the history of the civil war ( aside from slavery ) an how it was also a fight to keep the nation together.

    so the year was 2012 when this took movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_s..._for_secession

    Now the technical reason this gained to no ground what so ever, in short, is because the individual states meaning their respective leaders did not petition or make known that they wanted to leave the Union. So basically every single citizen in any given state here in America, can sign a petition to any president that their state be allowed to secede , and it means nothing with out the backing of said state leaders.

    So reflecting on the Britexit,

    at what point do our respective state officers say enough is enough, it is time to secede . ? Citizens can voice everything till they are blue in the face, but what does it take in America to get enough citizens to pressure state leaders to do what they want.

    A bad economy isn't the tipping point, terrorists slipping in from all over and causing bombings and shootings isn't the tipping point, threatening to remove the 2nd amendment and or curtail it to make even wanting to own a fire arm is pretty much grounds to accuse one of being the devil, isn't the tipping point.

    The growth of the federal government by leaps and bounds, the growth of federal agencies and the power of the presidency to use " executive authority " to sweep into law anything that he as president sees fit ( an not just this president, but past and now future ) is not a tipping point.

    To me the only way I see any state being serious about wanting to secede is if a sitting president, literally took the constitution an bill of rights and destroyed them both live on tv and declared some kind of martial law. An maybe not even then the way things are going.

    I find it sad that Brittan finds the courage to do what is right for them, yet here in America, we are chained down, and given any label under the sun to say one is wrong for even bringing the subject up. The frog is no longer in a pot that is gradually getting hotter, it feels as if the frog has already been boiled alive.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    It would serve the freedom agenda if Texas considered , threatened or executed this!

    The Federal Government would have to spruce up it's appeal, clean up it's act etc to prevent more threats!

    Similarly with Europe, the remaining rump really needs to reformulate itself root and branch to revitalise it's appeal.
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    SECESSION NEVER
    ....
    The perpetual union created by the Articles of Confederation, and modified into the more perfect union by the U.S. Constitution, was instituted to secure (endowed) rights and govern those who consent. That millions are unaware of their consent, is evident in this "talk" of secession to cure ills created by widespread consent.

    Secession only benefits the enemies of American people, who can more easily defeat a divided people.

    Preserve the Union - but withdraw consent - leave usury, socialism, and subjugation by consent.
    ...
    The irony is that when enough do withdraw consent, the Union will be sorely stressed, as the perpetually bankrupt socialist framework created by the collectivists and usurers will certainly shatter.

    Without sufficient collateral, the “dollar bill” becomes truly worthless and unacceptable. This not only will cripple trade, but it will wipe out paper fortunes, as billionaires become zero-aires. A billion worthless notes are worth zero, unless “contributors” underwrite them with their own labor and property.

    The recipient class, no longer beneficiaries of the donor class, will also find themselves hard pressed. Whether from the rich or poor end of the spectrum, once the government spigot is turned off, things will become unsettled, to say the least.

    The scope of change and transformation will be planetary - as the foreign bases are shut down and personnel are repatriated. Many unWars will immediately cease once there is nothing to pay for them.

    In the interim transition period, preparations should be made to endure a protracted period of chaos. Until a new framework is agreed upon, deliveries of food, fuel, and other necessities may be delayed - indefinitely. You will be truly on your own, so plan accordingly.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    I don't know if a Texit would help humanity forward.

    In my opinion, we are entering a relative short time frame (10 to 30 years perhaps) in which much of the foundation for a longer period will be forged.

    There will be change, collapse, destruction, but also opportunity and in this time especially, it is paramount that we choose very carefully to what movement we lend our support.

    The Brexit for instance is for a large part a movement that has no plan for the future, let alone a plan to bring people together in peace and cooperation for the benefit of all. It sails on lower emotions of fear, frustration, anger, feeling mistreated.
    Perhaps good things can come from this Brexit, but I still have to see the first sign of a movement that is inspired by the wish to elevate humanity to a higher plane of existence.

    We need people with the heart in the right place, people who really care and have learned to put common interest over egotistical drive for personal power.
    People like, Ron Paul or Bernie Sanders (you might not agree with his philosophy, but he cares about other humans). People who see things clearly and devote their lives to make a change for the better in the common interest of ALL.

    You see, there are two particular dangers lurking in the darkness.
    1 - The emerging global fascist totalitarian police state.
    2- Chaos and destruction of everything, also all the good that has been won over the past centuries. (Human rights for instance have never been this high in recorded history.)

    So in my view, the trick is to have an eye out for opportunity to address the serious issues that threaten a free and open society (especially from within), but we also have to be careful about path that we choose to address it.
    It's all too easy to fall for emotional behavior and let anger, frustration and disappointment dictate our support and the way we choose.

    If I see a movement emerging, the first thing that I will try to analyse is:
    - What are the qualities of it's leaders (Are they evolved human beings?, how big is their ego?, can they handle power without becoming corrupt?)
    - What are the sentiments that dominate that movement.
    - Is there a plan to unity and bring people together for the common good of all?

    So, a Texit?
    Well, it might get hings rolling, but it is uncertain to what it will roll.
    Certain mechanisms of control, like the FED and other institutions might loose their grip, but so might a lot of other templates, like human rights.

    There needs to be a plan to grow, to lift humanity up, to address the things that are wrong and at the same time improve cooperation, trust in each other and a willingness to build bridges instead of walls.
    Last edited by Eram; 1st July 2016 at 11:44.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    Default Re: Exit America

    New Hampshire and Vermont also have some big secession groups. I would love to see 330 million individual rulers but thats just a pipe dream.

    Brexit has lead to a bill being introduced to have the US leave the UN. That would be a great move for the US.

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    United States Avalon Member Ahnung-quay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    The tenth amendment can and should be used when federal powers act unconstitutionally. Nullification of unconstitutional federal laws is the duty of the people. The tenth amendment was put into place to control big government. The founding fathers wanted the states to govern themselves with small federal government.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    I live in Oklahoma, if Texas breaks from the union Oklahoma will go with them, there is some document signed long ago that confirms the partnership...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Smile Re: Exit America

    Ref. Brexit
    Give it a chance matey! developments don't happen overnight.... just watch this space. Comment again after a year.
    Last edited by Quinn; 1st July 2016 at 20:26.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    Matrix Massexit!

    FREEDOM from all oppression of Spirit.

    That's my vote and I'm sticking to it!

    MM
    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    Ecuador Honored, Retired Member. Warren passed on 2 July, 2020.
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    Default Re: Exit America

    I am Texan - although now living in Ecuador. I know a lot of Texans that would support a movement to 'Texit' if they thought there was a chance. However, in the last fifteen years or so there have been a lot of folks moving in from the Northeastern states that are still in the "the state is right" mindset rather than the "states rights" mindset. These are the people that have happily given up their inalienable rights in order to cover themselves with a false sense of security. My point: It is doubtful now that a plebiscite in Texas would favour Texit. I am afraid that West Texans (deep in the heart where most secessionist live) really do not understand the hearts and minds of the majority now living in the Eastern parts of Texas. So will a majority learn the real meaning of "Don't mess with Texas" or is it just a sign along the highway? Texas has the economy to survive well after an exit from the USA. That was simply not true 180 years ago when Texas split from Mexico. The other 49 states? Not a chance!

    In 1836, settlers in the Mexican state of Texas fought for independence from rule by fiat. Imperial rules from afar that threatened their livelihood. They wished to write their own laws and to decide their own fate. How is that different than Brexit?

    Name:  Alamo.jpg
Views: 412
Size:  30.2 KB
    Remember the Alamo.

    BTW, if Texas were to Texit I would seriously consider returning. Perhaps Texas would become the land of the free and the home of the brave. I wonder who would invade Texas after Texit. The USA military? The UN? NATO?
    Last edited by wnlight; 2nd July 2016 at 03:56. Reason: additional text, pix.

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    United States Avalon Member bluekungfoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    SECESSION NEVER
    ....
    The perpetual union created by the Articles of Confederation, and modified into the more perfect union by the U.S. Constitution, was instituted to secure (endowed) rights and govern those who consent. That millions are unaware of their consent, is evident in this "talk" of secession to cure ills created by widespread consent.

    Secession only benefits the enemies of American people, who can more easily defeat a divided people.

    Preserve the Union - but withdraw consent - leave usury, socialism, and subjugation by consent.
    ...
    The irony is that when enough do withdraw consent, the Union will be sorely stressed, as the perpetually bankrupt socialist framework created by the collectivists and usurers will certainly shatter.

    Without sufficient collateral, the “dollar bill” becomes truly worthless and unacceptable. This not only will cripple trade, but it will wipe out paper fortunes, as billionaires become zero-aires. A billion worthless notes are worth zero, unless “contributors” underwrite them with their own labor and property.

    The recipient class, no longer beneficiaries of the donor class, will also find themselves hard pressed. Whether from the rich or poor end of the spectrum, once the government spigot is turned off, things will become unsettled, to say the least.

    The scope of change and transformation will be planetary - as the foreign bases are shut down and personnel are repatriated. Many unWars will immediately cease once there is nothing to pay for them.

    In the interim transition period, preparations should be made to endure a protracted period of chaos. Until a new framework is agreed upon, deliveries of food, fuel, and other necessities may be delayed - indefinitely. You will be truly on your own, so plan accordingly.
    So are you suggesting it is better to stay with a broken and corrupt Federal government and presidency with the same broken and corrupt administration than to take any risk what so ever because other groups with their own agendas would for lack of a better terminology swoop in to fill the vacuum .... ?


    I do find it interesting how you mentioned the Dollar, paper currency.. First the saying was, he who has the Gold has the power, then there is fairly common knowledge of the how and why society moved from Gold to paper currency, and the way I see the dollar now, and the National Debt as it is, the Dollar is already dead. If our nations creditors where to knock on the collective door and want to collect, there is just no rational way to even come close to paying off the National Debt as it stands. Nothing short of an old school Jubilee where a debtor forgives all debts.


    I think the world is keeping a very close eye on the Britexit, as a precursor as to things that could come if their own respective states decide to leave their respect nations.

    `````````````````````````````````````

    As for hype about any state being over run by Nato, the US military, the UN.... I think in terms of going about secession in an unlawful manner, that could be a reality. Though if States were serious about breaking away from the control of the federal government, and did so lawfully.. by bringing the issue up to a ballot vote at the state level, to then run up the chain of command... A few things I think would happen very quickly. First a lot of stonewalling and rhetoric of how any state in America considering seceding does not have any legal ground to do so, and then the crying game of how it would absolutely destroy the state because it could not manage to sustain itself and then of course for some reason the world would come to an end.

    Then at least a year in the courts,

    VS the Britexit which took a vote and boom done in the blink of an eye it seems.

    I do not think though by states seceding that the dollar would take much of a hit as it is, because the rest of the nation would still rely on the dollar as legal tender, it would be more of a question really is said state that secedes , are they going to continue using the dollar as their currency or not ? It would probably be easier to just continue using the dollar as the main currency for North America.

    But I am rather stumped at the thought of when is enough , enough.

    Where are the poll takers to take a tally of when is it time to secede and have a list of scenerios where as an American one petitions their state leaders to secede ....

    Then another question is this, if at the State Level, the Gov of the state, senator , whom ever, says look get enough petitions to present to what ever office, to get it on the ballot for a vote, and so a group of people, start a movement get the proper petitions , and mean while the media is poo pooing over it, but the state leaders are scoffing the entire thing, and the entire time state leaders are what I imagine proclaiming it won't happen, this is all theater, but the vote goes through, their is a majority of people in a state who want to secede and want the state to legally abide by their vote.

    Then what, do these state leaders bite the bullet and go through with the decision, or do they say too bad and no.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    I used to believe in the Constitution but no more. I think secession is the answer until we become 8-10 billion individuals that just follow the simple rule of don't hurt people and don't take their stuff.

    As Spooner said:
    Quote But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    Quote Posted by bluekungfoo (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    SECESSION NEVER
    ....
    The perpetual union created by the Articles of Confederation, and modified into the more perfect union by the U.S. Constitution, was instituted to secure (endowed) rights and govern those who consent. That millions are unaware of their consent, is evident in this "talk" of secession to cure ills created by widespread consent.

    Secession only benefits the enemies of American people, who can more easily defeat a divided people.

    Preserve the Union - but withdraw consent - leave usury, socialism, and subjugation by consent.
    ...
    The irony is that when enough do withdraw consent, the Union will be sorely stressed, as the perpetually bankrupt socialist framework created by the collectivists and usurers will certainly shatter.

    Without sufficient collateral, the “dollar bill” becomes truly worthless and unacceptable. This not only will cripple trade, but it will wipe out paper fortunes, as billionaires become zero-aires. A billion worthless notes are worth zero, unless “contributors” underwrite them with their own labor and property.

    The recipient class, no longer beneficiaries of the donor class, will also find themselves hard pressed. Whether from the rich or poor end of the spectrum, once the government spigot is turned off, things will become unsettled, to say the least.

    The scope of change and transformation will be planetary - as the foreign bases are shut down and personnel are repatriated. Many unWars will immediately cease once there is nothing to pay for them.

    In the interim transition period, preparations should be made to endure a protracted period of chaos. Until a new framework is agreed upon, deliveries of food, fuel, and other necessities may be delayed - indefinitely. You will be truly on your own, so plan accordingly.
    So are you suggesting it is better to stay with a broken and corrupt Federal government and presidency with the same broken and corrupt administration than to take any risk what so ever because other groups with their own agendas would for lack of a better terminology swoop in to fill the vacuum .... ?
    [READ THE LAW. Show me one law that violates the endowed rights of the people who did not consent to be governed.]


    I do find it interesting how you mentioned the Dollar, paper currency [Not synonymous] .. First the saying was, he who has the Gold has the power [only if you're money mad] , then there is fairly common knowledge of the how and why society moved from Gold to paper currency [Really? I find most are clueless], and the way I see the dollar now, and the National Debt as it is, the Dollar is already dead. If our nations creditors where to knock on the collective door and want to collect, there is just no rational way to even come close to paying off the National Debt as it stands. Nothing short of an old school Jubilee where a debtor forgives all debts.
    [THERE HAVE BEEN NO DOLLARS SINCE 1933. Again, read the law. We have had a state of emergency, since 1933.]
    Ironically, all the "corruption and malfeasance" is based on consent of the governed. Secession will do nothing to change that. Ignorance of the law is inexcusable, too.

    As to the fact of the bankruptcy, if you're an obligated party on the debt, yes, you're in deep trouble when the CREDITOR comes knocking.

    BTW - if you volunteered into FICA, you're a "contributor" equally liable on that debt.

    - - - - - - - - -
    REFERENCES:

    DOLLARS...
    "Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
    "Eagles each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
    --- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792
    A "dollar bill" (Federal Reserve Note) is NOT a dollar (coin).

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...al-tender.aspx
    ". . .Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
    [] FRNs are not redeemable since 1933 (a violation of Title 12 USC Sec 411);
    [] Government is therefore bankrupt;
    [] FRNs are worthless;
    [] FDR confiscated all lawful money in 1933;
    [] FRNs are legal tender on obligated parties; (U.S. gubmint is an obligated party, according to 12 USC Sec. 411) -and-
    [] They are backed by YOUR goods and labor (via FICA/Socialist InSecurity).

    . . . .
    Senate Report 93-549
    https://archive.org/stream/senate-re...3-549_djvu.txt
    War and Emergency Powers Acts
    "A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
    FREEDOMS ... GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION ... HAVE BEEN ABRIDGED BY LAWS ... UNDER EMERGENCY RULE ...

    Constitutional U.S.A. (1787 - 1933) R.I.P.

    . . .
    Americans have lived under a two party perpetually indebted benevolent communist totalitarian police state dictatorship* using emergency rules for 83 years (as of 2016) ... and still haven't a clue that the constitutional government has been dead since 1933.

    Money Madness
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Money-Madness
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1065734
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    I saw that. Amexit is pointing to removing from UN and NATO. I'd like to see that being allowed to happen.

    What happened to all the psychic people who saw the NEW map of America all divided up from catastrophes? One actually said there would be multiple colonies and multiple Presidents/Leaders of each. Gordon Michael Scallion was one - he made a big living and had a following on that. Then there was Lori Toyes.



    http://rense.com/general67/theabsurdityofGMS.htm

    And Lori Toye is still blogging: http://iamamericaearthchanges.blogspot.com/
    When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandparent, dignified as a king. -- I Ching

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    United States Avalon Member bluekungfoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    [QUOTE=ozmirage;1078873][QUOTE=bluekungfoo;1078821][QUOTE=ozmirage;1078375]SECESSION NEVER
    ....


    Thanks for the links ozmirage, I was just confused in the beginning as I did not really understand what you were trying to get across.

    From what I am seeing, from your post, is that " We the People, chose to be governed under our constitution and bill of rights " I am not suggesting a secession from the nations original set up to just arbitrarily toss aside the constitution and bill of rights an etc.

    What I was not aware of is a break down of the Constitution beginning in 1933, so thank you again for the posts on that I look forward to reading up on that.

    I think seceding from America and becoming a individual state can lead to confusion because it comes with assumptions , will said state form a different constitution an just start all over , etc....

    Really for me I am tired of utter corruption , disregard and at times the way courts will interpret the law to suit an agenda that is only going to help a political party and not the people as a whole. If the break down of the Constitution began in 1933, then Americans have a long road ahead to basically repair the damage that has been done.

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    Default Re: Exit America

    Interesting that '.....exit' is a pervasive meme now.

    Makes one wonder, why now?

    (Always looking for the hand of the puppet-master)

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exit America

    Quote Posted by bluekungfoo (here)
    Thanks for the links ozmirage, I was just confused in the beginning as I did not really understand what you were trying to get across.

    From what I am seeing, from your post, is that " We the People, chose to be governed under our constitution and bill of rights "
    [NO]
    I am not suggesting a secession from the nations original set up to just arbitrarily toss aside the constitution and bill of rights an etc.

    What I was not aware of is a break down of the Constitution beginning in 1933, so thank you again for the posts on that I look forward to reading up on that.

    I think seceding from America and becoming a individual state can lead to confusion because it comes with assumptions , will said state form a different constitution an just start all over , etc....

    Really for me I am tired of utter corruption , disregard and at times the way courts will interpret the law to suit an agenda that is only going to help a political party and not the people as a whole.
    [That's the Democratic form at work]
    If the break down of the Constitution began in 1933, then Americans have a long road ahead to basically repair the damage that has been done.
    This Independence Day Anniversary

    Due to the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, the republican form of government, and the endowment of rights, are antecedent to the USCON. There is no need to “restore” the constitution. The issue is whether or not one has CONSENTED to be governed (under the socialist democratic form).

    Thanks to generations of indoctrination, few Americans know of or can accurately define the republican form of government, despite it being guaranteed by the USCON. (Coincidentally, the Confederate Constitution also guaranteed a republican form.)

    WHAT CHANGED?

    In the beginning, the original prerequisites for citizenship and voting and holding public officer were very STRINGENT.
    1. Property owner; 2. Tax payer; 3. Obligated to perform mandatory civic duties (ex: militia duty, from 18-50, currently 17-45), and 4. Held to a higher standard of behavior.

    This changed in the 1820s, and the demoncrazies were let loose. This is the source of UTTER CORRUPTION. Democracy cannot be repaired by "more" democracy. Eventually “Takers” outvote the “Taken,” and chaos reigns supreme.

    Let us consider what might have been if suddenly the strict rules were again installed, and 97% of the American people WITHDREW CONSENT.
    __ 97% drop in tax revenues (or more)
    __ 97% drop in subjects to rule
    __ Servant government still has to "secure rights" (adjudicate disputes, defend against enemies, foreign or domestic)

    With a budget of around $100 million, what MISCHIEF can the government get into?
    (> End all unWars, close all foreign bases, repatriate personnel and material ASAP)
    (> Shut down all Alphabet agencies, etc)
    (> Sell off or otherwise dispose of all properties not explicitly required for the operation of government)
    (> End all public charity, pensions, entitlements, and so on)

    . . . Doesn't matter which party is in power, as long as the REPUBLICAN FORM is preserved as guaranteed to the American PEOPLE.

    When you have endowed natural rights, liberties (natural and personal), and absolute ownership, what more do you need?
    When government cannot tax, infringe rights, nor rule you, what grievances remain?
    Last edited by ozmirage; 4th July 2016 at 12:07.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to ozmirage For This Post:

    AutumnW (4th July 2016)

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