Mind*@*@ & The Flyer Mind

[Reaver]

The term "Flyer Mind" was used by Don Juan Matus, the Yaqui shaman who taught or tried to teach shamanism to Carlos Castaneda and it is the term I prefer to use to describe an universal phenomenon along with the term: "their mind" since that's a remark by Don Juan: "They gave us Their Mind"

These parasitical entities have been observed through the ages and given different names: Flyers, Their Mind, Archons, Demons, Angels, Shadows, Predator, The Devil.

This is not the same as the Ego, in fact I'd say this is one step beyond the Ego.

Inevitably the contemplation of the Flyer Mind also leads to explore how so called reality can be bended.

The following is a recompilation of my writings on the subject, so at times it may seem incoherent. This is a topic which is inter-related to virtually everything in life, so you will also see that I touch on other subjects.

Word of warning: This is subject which triggers a lot of people, so at times I won't even reply to avoid this thread from becoming a mess. The ideas of reality control have nothing to do with new age teachings and very little to do with what most so called teachers promote in the alternative scene. There are fine lines between make believe and practical application. I'd recommend to get acquainted with Vernon Howard's work to have a solid foundation of "reality hack" and not just make believe to justify a mental stupor. Oh and any personal anecdote of mine will just be used as a point of reference to shed light on the subject, nothing more I'm not looking for virtual hugs nor I desire anybody's "love & light". Feedback will suffice.

So here it is, to begin a piece which tries to simplify the matter to have a decent foundation to build on:

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You can't explain the psyche with materialistic science. That's impossible since science is concerned with the study of the material world, while psychology in concerned with the study of the mental. I know that for a mind which is heavily rational (and I don't mean it in a bad kind of way) it is almost a heresy to claim that something intangible exists for real, it must be always backed up by science as we know it today.

The concept of "their mind" as Don Juan puts it is not some made up fantasy which denies everything that science has contributed to human progress nor is about turning a blind eye to things like some banking empire nor is it denying the existence of psychopaths looking to practice sadism with the rest of the world. It merely tries to illustrate how most, if not all, the messed up things in this world are the symptoms of a psychological disease.

Let's kill the wording "their mind" because it simply gets in the way for most people trying to figure out what the hell some people are talking about. I can understand why such words cause an immediate shut down, after all it almost sounds as if "their mind" was some kind of ghosts busters myth.

Let's think in more familiar terms. If I were to say that X person is possessed by "their mind" then some people would think I was somehow bringing back some paranoia of the middle ages and I may as well call it a satanic possession, but such conclusion couldn't be further from the truth.

This person who is "possessed" by this mind virus is someone who has gone through a heavy social conditioning over the years to the extent that this person feels very identified with their programming. In their perception; these mental constructs (which someone else build for them) are what give meaning to their life.

If you try to make this person see the truth behind it, then most likely you'll get a hostile reaction varying in degree. Some may call you crazy, some may even go as far as killing people who oppose these mental programs. But are they the ones in control? are they actually reacting from a place of authenticity? is it their own rage?

How could it be their own reaction when we have concluded that they are the receivers of a pathological social conditioning? Thus the talk about "their mind". It is the mental programming doing the reaction masquerading as the real person. I understand this can sound paradoxical as hell because the claim is: That person is going bonkers, we can observe it in his/her reactions, but at the same time it is not really him/her.

But then again we've seen what happens when a person starts to recognize these programs and proceeds to remove them and manage to handle the ensuing inner conflict. They start to get better to a degree and even their personal life seems to improve somewhat or at least their psychological life does.

By approaching things from another angle, you could say that the ills of the world are the result of serious psychological trauma. That is not to say that there aren't bankers looking to enrich themselves and the expense of others, that doesn't mean there aren't people out there messing things up, that doesn't mean every single adversity in life the common person finds if of their own doing.

All that is being said is that all those predicaments can be traced back to an origin point which is that of a traumatized psyche which in turn creates an environment suitable for sadism and masochism. These conditions then create mental programs which over time can prey on a vulnerable psyche and in turn infect them with either form of pathology. Still sound too hocus pocus? See it from this perspective:

You have a baby who is a blank slate which facilitates the influence of external forces. Most likely the first external influence the baby will come in contact with are his/her parents. Over time the child will absorb any set of values and beliefs that the parents practice and in turn will emulate these values and the health of his/her psyche will be largely determined by these values or parental conditioning.

Let's say the child has to grow up in a seriously dysfunctional home. The child will be exposed to pathological mental programs that will impact his psyche in different ways. Over time the child may emulate those programs and become a messed up adult, perhaps he'll be sadistic or maybe he'll be so broken that he'll bend over to anyone who displays enough force. Isn't his condition the result of social conditioning? can we really says that's an authentic person? or is it a seriously traumatized psyche doing whatever it takes to survive?

In this example the child has become "possessed" by the pathological mind of his parents. Of course this is just a figure of speech, if you take it that literally then you have some serious rethinking to do. In psychological terms the child has been exposed to a pathological social conditioning for so long that he feels extremely indented with it and acts accordingly.

The child can be guided through a healing process, but only HE can overcome it, there is room only for one. Now the fact than only he can put himself out of such a mess does not equal a negation of the impact that his parents had on him nor their responsibility, nor does it deny his current condition. Yet we can observe that how this person acted out during his/her life was a symptom of these mental programs running in his psyche.

When we try to break this programming don't we see similar reactions in people who've become heavily invested in their conditioning? they deny their pathology, they will fight tooth and nail to preserve the programming alive because they feel naked without it. In other words they are trying to preserve the mind of their programmers alive because it is what gives meaning to their life, by holding into these programs they also guarantee acceptance amongst those suffering from the same pathology so that they don't become outsiders.

Think about christian programming. Aren't there mechanisms in place to make the person feel guilty and scared of questioning his values? let alone leave them behind. To use a metaphor: When "their" mind is threatened it will try to preserve itself.

Had the child been out of the influence of his parents social programs then he'd never have to live with a traumatized psyche. Of course this was a simplified example for practical purposes.

We can project this dynamic on the grand scale where there are more factors at play that just parents. Yes a person is under the influence of pathological programs and there are people who propagate them and in who in all like-hood messed up a person in a direct or indirect way, but at the end of the day, it is up to this person to rise, no one else can do it for him, at most guidance and help can be offered.

Don't TPTB try to shape the world according to their image? to their mental schemas? aren't they infecting the world with "their mind"? their pathological mind is what paves the way for wars, famines, ponzi schemes and all that, symptoms of their mind. You may be able to mitigate those symptoms, to patch things up for a few decades, but if the root is not dealt with, then those symptoms will resurface sooner or later... maybe they'll just manifest in different ways.

So again "their mind" is about identifying the psychological roots of this world's ills. The psyche is the code while the events out there are the output, by studying both you will see a picture of the whole.

It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. I've been there and still find myself there sometimes. It's tough to cope with because one day you realize that yes TPTB and everything related to it are harming the world and people suffer, but even then, the real solution lies in each individual taking responsibility which consists in pulling themselves out of the mess they find themselves in even if someone else put them there.

[Reaver]

It also has to be acknowledged that "their mind" can be very clever. So clever that it even uses "good" to camouflage itself. Good deeds, pure thoughts, good people, etc.

You can see it happenning in big pictures. Take the example of parents who actually believe that sending their children to school is actually beneficial for their children and if that wasn't enought they also believe it makes them excellent parents. When you apply the skill of observation you can see that it may feel good, that people may believe it's beneficial, but actually it is highly toxic.

In this example the cons outweight the pros. Yes, kids may learn to read, write and apply basic arithmetic, but along the way they exchange their potential for the "virtue" of absolute obedience. Of course their mind will seduce people and make them believe it is all for their own good.

There are numerous examples which illustrate how "their mind" uses the concept of good and good feelings to destroy people's psyche. You can see it on the Alternative Circus too with all the spells the celebreties cast on the faithful ones. It sounds good, it feels good so it must be good and so people consume these products and ideas coming out from "their mind". You could say people fertilize their psyche and the psyches of their off-spring so that "their mind" can reproduce and thrive.

Now this is not to say that something like altruism is an entirely evil concept nor completely useless, but we have to examine if people are applying this idea for the right reasons. Does it feel good? probably. Should we feel good about helping out other people? I don't see why not... but answering these kind of questions don't reveal that much so we have to take a deeper look.

Why do people feel good about it?, What factors influence them?, Who is providing the definition of altruism?, are these good intentions really beneficial? Are they fixing things on the short term? what about the long term?.

Sometimes I've found that I did "good deeds" because it was a mechanism to cope with my own anxiety, but "their mind" is clever so I was telling myself cute stories to avoid facing the underlying reasons for my "good deeds". They had nothing to do with a response, but they had everything to do with a reaction to try to patch a psychological crack and thus their mind kept getting bigger and stronger.

"their mind" really hates exposure and so it uses all sort of tactics to avoid being discovered and if it is discovered then the toxic mind will use a different set of tactics, this time to convince the host that it is in their best interests to keep "their mind" alive and well.

Their mind couldn't care less about morality, that's just a concept which serves more as a distraction than anything else. Their mind will use ideas of good and bad alike to infiltrate people's psyche and so you can see a lot of permutations of their mind: Some people become extremely sadistic, some others go on to live the life of saints and help everyone who looks like are in dire need and so they feed co-dependent relationships. "Their Mind" is flexible and makes use of a big scale of greys so you will see different degrees of toxicity.

One of the main aims of "their mind" is make their programs "normal" and "familiar" so that the hosts don't question them at all because they are supposed to be a natural component of humanity.

[Reaver]

It also has to be understood that the exploration of the artificial mind is NOT about suppressing/killing emotions, in fact doing so only feeds it, rather it is about keeping one's emotions in check. You accomplish it by putting your own emotions under the lens of your mind to gain a deeper understanding of the human psyche (well that's one of the methods anyway).

As it has been stated: "Their mind" takes over a person's psyche and implants a behavioural simulacra. Based on my own experience with it, I'd say this psychological virus makes use of very subtle mechanisms to take over. The damage done to the person varies in degree.

The most disturbing aspect of it is the fact that the artificial psyche goes on self-replicating without much opposition. It is normal, familiar and in its insanity it provides people with a lot of emotional security. A toxic emotional security that is. Some people can become extremely anxious in social situations, other people become anxious by being alone. Some people can become extremely sadistic, some become masochistic. The permutations and degrees of severity of this phenomenon are too many to list.

Again, in no way is this "philosophy" telling people to become emotionless droids. Rather it is telling people to watch out for this virus so that it can be sterilized and the Authentic Psyche can unfold.

Oh and the interactions with "their mind" are far from being pretty.

[Eram]

Hi reaver,

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?

To me it seems that at least much of this condition is born out of lack of understanding of reality and how to behave in it without friction. So if anything is to blame for it, it would be our own immaturity and not so much archons, wetiko and what else there might be out there to get us.

It's not to say that they are not doing everything they can to increase this lack of understanding, but to say that they forced it upon us and humans are innocent victims would be an assumption that does not match my observations.

[Reaver]

Posted by Eram
Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?

What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.

Technically it is alien regardless of its point of origin.

Posted by Eram
To me it seems that at least much of this condition is born out of lack of understanding of reality and how to behave in it without friction. So if anything is to blame for it, it would be our own immaturity and not so much archons, wetiko and what else there might be out there to get us.

Not really, as I said (and many others way before my time) it is a parasite. If you look at biological parasites you'll see that there's really not a forced relationship, it is s symbiotic one, sometimes the symptoms are obvious and sometimes they are so subtle it is hard to notice.

What does happen though is the lack of understanding of reality which is a symptom of the Flyer Mind. It makes us become obsessed with its description of reality which then we make out own, all of this unconsciously of course, but with a real impact on our personal mental space as well as the world out there. Sure anyone trying to limit the Flyer Mind needs to snap out of any victim-hood feelings... it is such a clever process where even if one realizes there is something inside of us then the Parasite can use that truth against its subject to deviate attention from it which ultimately results in states of powerlessness for the infected.

See this is where people can start to get triggered, but it has to be said for the sake of context and clarity: That statement of yours if the Flyer trying to hide itself behind a truth by focusing you whole attention on what it is a symptom caused by it. Are you wrong in your assessment? not really, but it is incomplete and so the Flyer steps outside of your awareness. Nothing personal, just a mere observation, but as I said this is a subject which triggers a lot of people so I have to throw disclaimers around.

Posted by Eram
It's not to say that they are not doing everything they can to increase this lack of understanding, but to say that they forced it upon us and humans are innocent victims would be an assumption that does not match my observations.

In a sense we start out as victims since the Flyer latches since the moment of birth, reinforced by our most immediate members of society: families who feed us their description of reality to reinforce the Flyer. But to say we start out as victims should only be regarded as a point of reference, a mere acknowledgement of the situation.Dwelling on this fact is what creates all sorts of victim-hood complexes and renders people utterly powerless in turn nourishing the Parasite... even though the Flyer will also use simulacrums of feeling powerful (new age teachings as an example) to nourish itself. As I said, even truth can be used to keep us in a stupor.

[Reaver]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IOYyCHGWJq4

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

Imagine you are in the room, with one wooden chair at the middle. You are looking at it and by all definitions it is one helluva average chair. So far so good. You leave the room and close the door.

Is the chair where it was, looking exactly as it did moments before, without anybody looking? Or is it potential to be interpreted as same chair when you or somebody else enters the room? Is it solid or wave like?

It's quite the mind*@*@, this inevitably leads me to ask: how the hell can I guarantee that everything which apparently is not me (people, stuff, animals, minerals and all that) is not just some kind of intense dream state? You know like when you go to sleep and you would swear the damn thing felt so real despite some things being off, like when you dream about places and people you've been to and met before and some details are different than so called reality... why on earth does it feel so real?

If every event around me depends on me observing them in order to collapse and form reality then why does my mind interpret them as being partially or totally outside my control and ultimately outside of what/who I consider to be me? If everything is indeed a kind of hyper realistic simulation then how do I become fully conscious of it to the point I can direct the narrative or the story/simulation? Here's another mind****:

Ever had those episodes in your life when it feels like events fall into place in the way you want them to? sometimes it takes a series of events, sometimes a single one does the trick. A very simple example if time itself, when I was living in London and started doing mind experiments I toyed with the idea of time, I had to be at a specific time at the platform to catch the train and be able to arrive to my class on time so I decided to approach it with two different mindsets (one each time) and note the results.

The idea was to leave the house before the train arrived, but I couldn't leave too early otherwise the experiment would be useless since my mind was already aware that leaving at least 20 minutes before (even by walking slowly) absolutely guaranteed me catching the train, so I had to reduce the time intervals to 15, 10 and 5 minutes; intervals which made my mind doubtful about my ability to be on time.

The first approach was about making my mind anxious, checking the time very often, so what happened with this mindset was that I failed catch the train; the 15 minute interval was perhaps in a 50-50 or 40-60 ratio, I suspect this was because despite my time anxiety I still knew it was just 5 minutes less than 20 and still had a chance.

The 10 minute interval was comprised mostly of failed attempts, if I was to be too optimistic about it I'd say I had an 80% rate of failure. As you can imagine, the 5 minute interval always ended in utter failure to catch the train.

The second mindset was about entering a confident and relaxed state, knowing that time is relative, to have something to back up my mental conclusion I reflected back on the occasions when time quickly passed by or when it went by slowly depending on what suited my mood the most. 15 minute intervals always guaranteed success, 10 minute intervals resulted in success most of the time with very few exceptions and the 5 minute interval must've been around the 85% success rate.

So if time and events can be "manipulated" like this then what other things could be controlled? why is it that I can't? or is it actually me being so unconscious of the process behind it that I have made an unconscious agreement where I deem myself incapable? If so then how do I change it? how do I become aware of it when I seem to have no frame of reference for its existence?

Ever heard of the clinical term "depersonalization"? That's when you feel like nothing is real, it feels like you are in a movie or a dream. The medicine priesthood says it is a disorder, but I suspect is far from being a disorder, in fact they have to tell you it is a mental disorder because it threatens the flyer mind and because it challenges your sense of identity and perhaps one could find something about reality one is supposed not to. I'm curious as to how a shaman would describe this so called "depersonalization".

Ever felt like you jumped in time (forwards or backwards), but you can't quite recall it? like when you see something in the corner of your eye, but you can't pin point what the hell it was. Other times it feels like you jumped into an alternate time line. So why and how is it that we get inserted back into what we consider to be reality and the real timeline? is it our unconsciousness? it is a parasite?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vJiJZiOaJFQ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m_ySllDOyjE

Their mind, the flyer mind, wetiko, the archons... are we pretentious about it? we like to see it as a foreign installation, an artificial program running in the back of our heads, a parasite; mental or cosmic... something outside of ourselves, that is scary enough... but remember Plato and Hegel, the Discourses and the Dialectic, children of Hermeticism... opposing polarities of the same whole. A sane mind and "their mind", could it be they are two sides of the same coin? if so then how do we reinterpret reality?

What is the purpose of being here (whatever the hell here means)? We also like to pretend we know, when in fact we don't and that threats our sense of identity.

[Sunny-side-up]

Hmm! some synchronicity:
Been having stronger feelings of being followed recently or of someone/thing around!
Just last night while walking the dog I glanced a guy turn the corner of the road to my left.
I didn't pay much attention, then just 3-5 seconds later I looked to make sure where he was and he wasn't? he had vanished?
I remember thinking afterwards that he was bald and didn't have much detail Hmm!

[peggy englebrake]

I found the books of Don Miguel Ruiz helpful on identifying our mental intruders and practical ways to take control of our own thoughts and programming. A Toltec approach to awareness.
You are correct. Each of us must take this first step ourselves.

[TEOTWAIKI]

Would it be possible to summarize what Don Miguel Ruiz has suggested as practical ways to take control of our own thoughts?

In my opinion, this topic is paramount to the survival of the human race and deserves our highest attention.

Until we as humans can take back control of our minds from the predators, we are at risk of self-annihilation.

Many posters on this and other forums have discussed the parasitic infection of our minds but there has been a dearth of information on methods of combating the parasites.

[Reaver]

Posted by TEOTWAIKI (here)
Would it be possible to summarize what Don Miguel Ruiz has suggested as practical ways to take control of our own thoughts?

In my opinion, this topic is paramount to the survival of the human race and deserves our highest attention.

Until we as humans can take back control of our minds from the predators, we are at risk of self-annihilation.

Many posters on this and other forums have discussed the parasitic infection of our minds but there has been a dearth of information on methods of combating the parasites.

Hardly surprising, as I stated, is is a topic which triggers way too many people and even among those who pay attention for a while, find a way to avoid seeing it, not many actually admit the flyer acts in themselves because their intelligence, their sense of so called spiritual progress and their sense of identity is put into question.Usually these threads start to degenerate into all kinds of emotional babble or unrelated BS which only provides evidence for its existence and influence.

This is not the typical alien stuff where there are overlords outside of ourselves dictating our life and we can shift all the blame unto them, this is something which is inside of us and alien at the same time, which ultimately requires us to look at ourselves.

[Reaver]

Mind****: Is the dream world actually separate from so called reality? There was a website (ceased to exist) which claimed dreams where a program for "gods in training". In those lucid dreams you can create thing out of thin air, those guys claimed it was possible to draw those elements from dream states into what we commonly perceive as reality. Their claims had nothing to do with new age make believe where getting high on pretty e-motions could pull it off. Again, there are thin lines between make believe and practical application.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KS7RWq2bOMI

La shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine”
“Nothing is true, everything is permitted”
“ليس هناك ما هو صحيح ، كل شيء مسموح به

Ah I loved the first, second a third games in the series, thanks from reminding me of it and it actually is a synchronicity (even though I don't like to use the word that much), particularly the bit where Machiavelli says: "Where other men blindly follow the truth", I think that is one of the most important things for humans in general to re-evaluate, even more so in the so called alternative media. This is what I wrote yesterday somewhere else:

"Truth" is nothing more than a mere idea which has become nothing more than trivia. This is also the case at large for the alternative media, the moment you project a moral quality unto the concept you end up with all sorts of self-righteous BS and alternative entertainment . In fact the word "truth" simply means to bring that which is hidden to light, nothing more."

Yet people through the ages have swallowed the ridiculous notion of "The Truth Will Set You Free", which is nothing more that a spell and ironically one of the greatest lies ever told. Every other notion of truth -beyond revealing that which is hidden- is pure moralistic projection, a tremendous pretension. Blindly follow that which is now revealed and be ready to get kicked in the face.

I read somewhere where it was stated that when the American Revolution started, its leaders only aimed to reach a low percentage of people in order to win. When they swayed 3 (or 3.5?) percent of the population to actively participate on their side (mostly carrying guns) they knew they would win. So consensus forming reality again.

I read that claim too, yes when you get to the essence of this dynamic it kinda makes sense, although the essence of the principle has to be applied and fine tuned according to the environment. Had Britain had a tight control on its domestic affairs, had France and Spain kept out of the revolutionary war... question begs, how much should that 3.5% had had to be increased? This helps illustrate my claim of there being fine lines between practical application and make believe.

The essence I'm talking about:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rWj7oWlVtag

Mind****: Have you noticed how the media (in all its branches) is releasing more and more content which deals with the topics we talk about? They cover different layers, but it is there:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rNfzbPAD8FE

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vgg9nnALFGA

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rZvjMNGuGSQ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eX3u0IlBBO4

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IJBnK2wNQSo

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zSWdZVtXT7E

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jROLrhQkK78

Now the immediate reaction in the alternative media would be something along the lines: gate-keeping, they have to do it because people would ask too many questions otherwise; but since we have asked question along the line of quantum entanglement then it'd be only logical to ask:

How can we be so sure that's actually the case? that is the media producing this kind of movies and tv shows which seem to be increasing in their quantity and quality. What if -at the core of it all- that's just reality collapsing trying to tell us something? is it actually a fabrication of "out there"? or is it nothing more that our unconsciousness unfolding itself and reflecting back on us through media (medium)? how then do we wake up from our own unconscious dream masquerading as reality? or is it about realizing how we can direct the story of the dream? ultimately having control over the waves of consciousness?

[peggy englebrake]

Not really. Before you can take action, you must be exposed to some ideas/concepts. Otherwise it's like trying to fly a plane before you understand gravity. Ruiz has seven inexpensive paperback books in print that are easy to read. You can get them on Amazon. The first book is "The Four Agreements", but my favorite and the one I happened to read first was "The Voice of Knowledge". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

[Violet3]

Posted by peggy englebrake (here)
". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

Hi Peggy, I would be interested in your other reference if you can find it. Violet3

[Eram]

Posted by Reaver (here)

Posted by Eram
Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?

What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.

I'm not asking for hard scientific evidence, but with a claim like this, a parasitical mind virus, I am just curious to know what is out there that gives it credit.
Especially since much if not all of the symptoms can also fit into the model that Plato, Hegel and many other (as you rightfully mentioned) laid out.


There's a lot out there that points in such a direction. Thousands collected cases of reincarnation memories that matched up with the facts, all life that seems to aim for evolution and more.

So my problem with the idea of a flyer mind (for the moment) is that it seems at odds with the theory of reincarnation in function of a growing soul (consciousness evolution).
I have to admit that I haven't spent much time into the flyer mind theory, but some common sense observations to give it credit would certainly help.
For now, I can't think of any...

[Wind]

You say it's not the same thing as ego, but I think it's interesting what Tolle says.

Personally I do believe that we are also influenced by the lower astral too.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hbj4nLOPN8o

[TEOTWAIKI]

Posted by peggy englebrake (here)
Not really. Before you can take action, you must be exposed to some ideas/concepts. Otherwise it's like trying to fly a plane before you understand gravity. Ruiz has seven inexpensive paperback books in print that are easy to read. You can get them on Amazon. The first book is "The Four Agreements", but my favorite and the one I happened to read first was "The Voice of Knowledge". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

Peggy,

I wasn't being lazy or a cheapskate, it's just that Amazon doesn't ship to the country I'm working in right now

Otherwise I would immediately order and read the Ruiz books.

I would like the other reference as well if you have time to look it up...

[Reaver]

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by Reaver (here)

Posted by Eram
Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?

What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.

I'm not asking for hard scientific evidence, but with a claim like this, a parasitical mind virus, I am just curious to know what is out there that gives it credit.
Especially since much if not all of the symptoms can also fit into the model that Plato, Hegel and many other (as you rightfully mentioned) laid out.


There's a lot out there that points in such a direction. Thousands collected cases of reincarnation memories that matched up with the facts, all life that seems to aim for evolution and more.

So my problem with the idea of a flyer mind (for the moment) is that it seems at odds with the theory of reincarnation in function of a growing soul (consciousness evolution).
I have to admit that I haven't spent much time into the flyer mind theory, but some common sense observations to give it credit would certainly help.
For now, I can't think of any...

I'll make a quick reply while I put some thoughts in order with more substance. I'll use myself as an example, seems easier to expand on it that way:

There have been situations where certain emotions start to strengthen themselves, it could be any, but to make it easier to see let's say they are emotions like fear, anxiety, anger, melancholy. Indeed the ego is always involved in this e-motions, but behind it:

When In certain situations where actions or words caused me to become angry, at times there was a sort of space being created, in which I could tell there were two different "I"s occupying the same space. One of those "I"s was the one who experienced anger boiling up and at the same time felt like a forced reaction an act, trying to convince myself that such anger was indeed mine. The other "I" seem to be rather indifferent to the situation, calm and collected and it seemed this "I" was actually the one belonging to me.

So looking back at those situations, "Angry I" was the flyer trying to impose itself. Notice that whenever one feels a strong emotion (could be any, but again let's focus on the ones I listed) such as anger, one is forced to become more aware of what goes on in the body. Anxiety and Fear have similar effects, these e-motions require us to enter into states of "Alert" which by their very nature require us to become more aware or conscious of our surroundings and our bodies. The Flyer feeds on the resulting awareness of these states of Alert, one has to be convinced those initial feelings are actually ours so that our bodies produce the necessary bio-chemical reactions to enter in such state.

[Reaver]

Posted by Wind (here)
You say it's not the same thing as ego, but I think it's interesting what Tolle says.

Personally I do believe that we are also influenced by the lower astral too.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hbj4nLOPN8o

I think Tolle is just a new age marketing guru, sure some truth in his talks, but ultimately he ends up pandering to the victim-hood complex of their audience so they can justify their broken state. One can never trascended nor bypass the ego, only become aware of it and integrate it to make it function within proper boundaries. That's all I'm going to write on the matter to avoid deviating from the topic at hand, but at least now you know why I won't comment further on it nor post anything related to Tolle.

[Reaver]

The main problem I had (and still have) is the lack of direction and motivation when the thoughts stop. I'd say the voice instead of the thoughts but that may sound wrong and sidetrack what I am trying to say. When you listen to 'your' inner voice to find out what to do your whole life, when that voice goes away there is thoughtless desert left. At first.

I just had an epiphany re-reading your posts and paying closer attention to the film Revolver, it shows how bloody clever the flyer mind is:

"Thoughtless desert' Indeed, we've been always thinking with Their Mind, we've never had the chance to use our own mind, we've been using the mind of the parasite since the very beginning.

Notice that at the end of the film there are different people basically talking about the ego, notice what mystics and esoteric teachers say: empty your mind so that you can start perceiving the world as it really is.

It just dawned on me that such statement is true... and a massive lie at the same time, this truth can in fact lead you into another flyer mind defence mechanism.

These people do indeed describe what happens when the ego is out of control and how it masks itself, but many of them fail to detect What sends the ego into a trauma state in the first place. By realizing our ego is out of control and in control of our lives, the flyer mind hides behind this fact since all our attention then focuses on our ego and its mechanisms, effectively diverting our full attention into a truth. "Where other men blindly follow the truth".

"Where is the best place where an enemy can hide"? "In the very last place you would ever look". Even if you look at the ego and realize its existence and influence, no one ever looks at what hides behind the ego. "No one sees Gold, but Gold sees everything"

When people cause trauma on others what hides behind all the psychological stuff we know about those behaviours? It seems to me, behind all those truths, something even more disturbing hides itself: A person exercising sadism on others unnecessarily is actually an individual flyer mind nourishing another member of its society. It's a loop.

I caution to leave morality aside because if we are to project morality on top of this observation then we risk falling into another trap, the flyer mind would hide behind this truth and have us believe violence itself is unnatural in order to deviate our attention from itself (their mind).

It's quite creepy to realize all my life I've pretty much been interacting with other parasites and not real humans, just something pretending to be human.
I swear as I'm writing this my breathing rate increased, feel anxious as well. Feels like I don't even want to admit it to myself, asking myself if this is just some paranoia, apophenia.

I have to ask once you get through reading this post and doing some thinking: Did you find yourself feeling something similar?

[sparrow7]

There is a whole archonic order, with ranks.

The smallest archons are the parasitical larva they put on you, the larva transmit signals within your body, these parassites have the role to trick you into thinking it's your own thoughts.

The next one is the Wasp archon, that can control you directly with energy waves from outside your self if you are opened to her, she does this to insert the above, her larva children inside of you.

Next there are the god archons, the judges that judge you, these are basicly the top of the pyramid, the cap stone archons.

Next there are the master archons that don't do anything really but observe how things and the system is working overall, all the others work for them.

So it is a pyramidal structure with the eye of god that represents the judge archons and above that hidden the masters of deception.

Among them there are also humans, Luciferians, the ones who made deals with the wasp mothers, they can learn how they can become a harlot wasp in time, and can use the grid line to manipulate others, these are the occult folks, sophia people gnostic jesuits. The whole Gnostic movement is archonic.

Really when you say flyers the best thing that comes to mind is the Yellow WASP archon.