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Thread: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    GREER was very definitely part of the planning for the assassination -- but he certainly didn't shoot at JFK -- that's a lie.

    GREER's job was to slow down the limo in case JFK hadn't been fatally hit. Keep in mind that they had had to cancel previous plans to pull off the assassination -- first, in Chicago -- and later in Miami -- because Oswald had alerted Secret Service in about Chicago . . . and then another informer (Sullivan) had recorded a RW extremist (Milteer) relating the plot which was to happen in Miami.

    Dallas was their third choice -- but their LAST chance.

    So GREER had to make sure that JFK was dead -- that was what he was doing in turning around to make sure -- keeping the car barely moving and then bringing it to a STOP until he was sure JFK was mortally wounded.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    True -- we see so often that original testimony is altered -- that's the sign of a cover up.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    I just watched this video from Doug Horne who was a member of the Assassination Records Review Board.



    I dont expect anyone to watch it because it is pretty long, so I'll sum up a few of his points.

    -Five shots hit Kennedy. Three in the head. One in the top right forehead, which exited back, lower left. One in the middle back of the skull that did not exit. One behind the right ear that caused a tangential wound, meaning the entrance and exit wounds united, taking off the lower back right portion of Kennedy's skull. The other two shots hit Kennedy in the back and in the front of the neck.

    -The doctors at Parkland in Dallas mainly saw the right rear exit wound. They saw no wound on the right side of the head because, allegedly, there was no wound there.

    -The Zapruder film was altered. The right side, explosive wound was drawn onto the film. Other frames were removed to eliminate, in part, the direction of the exiting skull and brain material. The missing frames create an exaggerated back-and-to-the-left motion. This may not have been the result they intended, but they were in a hurry and limited to the technology of the time.

    -The shots that hit the right rear of the skull and the forehead probably came from two different shooters along the fence, although he didnt seem totally sure of this and didnt present much evidence on this topic.

    -Surgery was performed on JFK at Bethesda to alter the wounds before the official autopsy.


    These are his opinions after three decades of research, including his work with the ARRB. I thought there were some inconsistencies, but he didnt cover everything, so who knows. I also thought some witnesses described seeing the explosive wound on the right side, including Zapruder. Horne says the doctors at Parkland must have missed the entrance wound at the top right of the forehead and the exit wound at the back, lower left. That seemed unlikely....to me.


    Regarding the question of 'why', Horne argues that it was Kennedy's desire for peace that led to his assassination, especially his reluctance to invade Cuba and his desire to work with the Russians.
    Last edited by blackdog; 6th September 2016 at 00:23.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    What else would this be?

    Oswald was CIA as reported/confirmed by the John Tunheim Panel -- reviewing the 1992 JFK Classified Records.

    Set up for some as a "Training Mission" -- sound familiar? Only those at the top of the plot knew what the actual purpose of the training mission was. Others, as expected, fell in line.

    For a long list of the conspirators -- who met the evening before the assassination at Clinton Murchinson's home in Texas, see Madelaine Brown/YouTube --

    but they included LBJ, Hoover, McCloy, Nixon, John Connolly, Murchinson, Syd Richardson, Brown Bros., Brown Brothers.
    George W. Owens. Joe Campisi, Malcolm Wallace, John Currington, Cliff Carter, Amin G. Carter, Jack Ruby, Carlos Marcellos, Joe Sivillo
    Larry Campbell, Larry Curtis, Currington, Earl Cabell - Mayor Dallas, Bill Decker -- Sheriff of Dallas, Ted Thornton, W. O. Bankston, Clint Peoples

    Of course, many more -- such as GHW Bush, Dulles -- and others I couldn't catch the names of.

    Madelaine Brown also relates that in 1960 . . .

    According to Madelaine Brown . . .

    Joe Kennedy -- JFK's father and H. L. Hunt -- 3 days prior to election -- "cut a deal"
    H. L. Hunt agreed that Lyndon would go as VP
    "H. L. Hunt and LBJ really controlled what happened to JFK -- After election -- immediately went to plan to get rid of JFK."
    "Planning went on about two years prior to assassination of JFK" -- Place for meetings, north of Dallas, secluded."

    PS: For those who aren't familiar with the name "Malcolm Wallace," he was pretty much LBJ's private killer -- and was believed to have been on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
    Coincidentally, there was a set of fingerprints which remained unidentified on the cardboard boxes and it seems to match Malcolm Wallace's prints on record.

    Earl Cabell's brother, Charles Cabell, was longest serving Deputy Director of the CIA, under Director Allen Dulles.
    Both Cabell and Dulles were fired by JFK after the Bay of Pigs.

    Brown Bros. -- later Brown & Root which is fed highly profitable contracts in Vietnam by LBJ -- eventually Kellogg, Brown & Root and a "unit" of Halliburton.

    On the way out of the Meeting that night, LBJ grabs Madelaine Brown by the arm and whispers in her ear that . . . "he won't be bothered by the Kennedy's after tomorrow -- that's not a threat, that's a promise."
    Last edited by Curious77; 5th September 2016 at 21:20.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    -The doctors at Parkland in Dallas mainly saw the right rear exit wound. They saw no wound on the right side of the head because, allegedly, there was no wound there.
    This is Abraham Zapruder on television about an hour and a half after the assassination:



    He describes almost exactly what we see in the Zapruder film, saying the side of his head opened up and pointing to right side like we see in his film.

    You can argue that Zapruder was in on it, but it seems to me this is before those orchestrating the event would have known exactly what they were dealing with and how they were going to alter the film.

    I dont get it. How does Doug Horne deal with this issue?

    They show the ambulance leaving Parkland, so it would have been about 2 pm.

    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli..._assassination :
    "A few minutes after 2:00 p.m. CST, President Kennedy's body was removed from Parkland Hospital and driven straight to Air Force One."

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Curious, you have way too many people at Clint Murchison's home for the big meetup the night before. The makers of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" has it right. They tracked down the servers who worked the gathering and interviewed them to determine who was present that night. Only the main actors were present.

    Again, the ONLY fingerprint found on the 6th floor of the TSBD after the shooting was a pinky print belonging to Mac Wallace. One print on a cardboard box.

    Here is a short version of what I can verify with actual evidence. I will provide references later as I reconstruct them. Losing your hard drive is a massive bummer. There is one film which I haven't found yet. This is mentioned later on.

    JFK was hit by three bullets, Connally with one, and one hit a curb displacing a piece of granite that ricocheted up and hit the chin of a witness, drawing blood. Another probably hit the upper right inside of the windshield trim and ricocheted somewhere up front. Pictures of the inside of the limo taken afterward show a considerable dent in the chrome frame moulding. That's 6 out of 7 bullets accounted for. They also set up a classic triangulation shooting pattern. One at the Grassy Knoll, one under the triple overpass and one behind the limo in the building directly across the street and to the right of the School Book Depository. Oh yeah, and Mac Wallace with a Mauser, or Mannlicher Carcano with a junk scope, on the 6th floor.

    The Sequence

    Bullet number one came from another expert marksman stationed under the triple overpass. The cars were going downhill to get under the bridge. The shot went through the windshield striking JFK in the center of his thorax and passing out his upper right shoulder. It is a small miracle no one else got hit. The backstory is that the Secret Service ordered 4 or 5 (can't remember the exact number) identical windshields weeks before the assassination. And, a woman named Evalea Glades (who was a gun nut all her life and later became head of surgery at a Dallas hospital - excellent cred there) and 3 others, saw the hole in the windshield at Parkland. She always described it as a "through and through hole from front to back". Obviously it was a high speed bullet. Kennedy's fatal flaw was a very bad back. In almost constant pain, he that day wore a full length back brace under his suit. It made it impossible for him to bend his back. So bullet number one did exactly what they wanted to do. Kennedy froze after that shot, and was not able to talk. He slowly bent forward in the seat but acted like a paralyzed sitting duck. If we trace the thorax entry wound through the hole in the windshield (just upper left of the rear view mirror) we will end up under the triple overpass.

    The single bullet theory conclusively breaks down when we look at Connally. He turned around after the first shot (probably Jackie making a lot of noise) to see what was going on. After some frames he begins to turn back and is hit. He visibly winces as he is struck. Way too much time between the first shot and Connally being shot to be a single bullet. The trajectory of the Connally shot is high up on his body to his leg. That high of a trajectory points to the 6th floor.

    Now we get to bullets number 2 and 3 to hit JFK. Bullet #2, as can be seen in a zoomed in film on JFK's head and shoulders, strikes him towards the back of the right side of his head close to the edge of his skull. Frames 313, 314 and 315 show the bullet path. Back to front going towards the outside of his skull. THe brain matter falls out back to front with the exit wound around his right temple area. Another high speed bullet with a low trajectory angle. Hmmm. Where from? Well, the building just across the street from the School Book Depository to the right is an office building. The CIA rented an office on the second floor. The window in the closet which looked out onto the street was open.

    Bullet number 3 hit him almost immediately after bullet #2 struck. One on top of the other, as evidenced by the Dallas PD dictaphone recording. It came from the grassy knoll, hit JFK in his occipital region, and splattered at least one motorcycle officer so badly that he filled out a report on his experience. Both he and his motorcycle were splattered. The pink spray which was edited out of the Zapruder film. They also blacked out the lower rear occipital region of JFK's head. In the zoomed version it clearly shows how violently JFK's body was thrown up and to the left. An interesting point I saw was JFK's arms going limp when the second bullet hit him. Bullet number 3 was an exploding bullet. The only one used that day. Note the angle allowed a hit on JFK but not Jackie. Another interesting tidbit I saw was that if bullet number 2 did not hit him, bullet number 3 would have hit him in the middle of his skull and done jinormous damage. Bullet number 2 moved his head forward just enough so that #3 hit him in the rear of the head. The Frenchman on the knoll had already committed to the shot so it played out the way it did. Interestingly, the triangulation setup meant that no one else in the car would be hit. Not anyone on the left and no one in the front seat. The Connally hit, if it came from the 6th floor, appears to be blind luck. Every shooters angle and bullet path was designed to pass out of the car.

    We know without doubt the Secret Service, CIA and FBI were involved. One of the most interesting pieces of film we have from that day shows the head of the Secret Service detail in the convertible following the Presidential limo stand up and call off the two agents assigned to the rear of the limo. The motorcade consisted of 1-Dallas PD, 2-Presidential limo, 3-Secret Service car, 4-press and others. So a member of the media corps in the convertible following the Secret Service car filmed this incident one block before the fateful turn. A clear violation of Secret Service rules even then. The man on the right gets off and puts his hands in the air as if to say - what are you asking me to do? This is not kosher. So the Presidential limo is now unprotected. The driver did slow the limo almost to a complete stop. Another clear violation of their own rules. But it meant that no Secret Service agent would be in the line of fire. And the car would be crawling in the killing zone. The FBI was involved because J Edgar Hoover was at the gathering the night before at Clint Murchison's home.

    There is one photo of JFK taken at Parkland after he died. It shows the back of his head in the occipital region gone. Some of his skin with hair attached dangles from the back of his head. In place of the missing area there is a stainless steel support holding his head in place. There is also a poster showing all the 18 or so doctors who examined him at Dallas. Every doctor, when asked to describe his head wounds, put his open hand to the back of his head and said occipital region.

    "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" says that only the top people, the deciders, were at Murchinson's home. And LBJ was a central conspirator. Within a week Bobby Kennedy's office of Attorney General would indict Billy Sol Estes and others for nefarious dealings in Texas if JFK had lived. That would have sent LBJ to jail. The CIA wanted him dead after the disasterous Bay of Pigs op and JFK saying he would chop the CIA into a thousand pieces. He had no love for Allen Dulles or J Edgar Hoover.

    That is how he died. It tells me this. It was a conspiracy with several governmental agencies involved and more private people behind the scenes. Many had a motive for the assassination. Since that time it is clear to me that a shadow government runs this country. It is the way it is.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    If I may, I collect quotes from famous people on what's really going on. There are quotes back to Washington, Jackson and many other presidents that refer to men behind the scenes who really run things. They have always been men of money. The finest quote on anything I ever heard is "FOLLOW THE MONEY". Wilson soon regretted the formation of the Federal Reserve central bank. Eisenhower reminds us to guard against the power of the "military industrial complex". JFK issued an executive order in June of 1963 that put the USA on a course to print our own money. The full story of Pearl Harbor is fascinating. It leads into a discussion of false flags. A country knowing with certainty that a catastrophic event is about to befall said country but let it happen anyways to change the course of history and draw that country into war. As for JFK - he had bummer karma.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    One more. It is interesting that the Feds altered the Zapruder film the way they did. They didn't have the tools we have today, so their ability to alter it was, by todays standards, minimal. I haven't looked yet, but the search leads me to look for stills of frames 313 - 315. Zoomed in to JFK's head and shoulders.
    H L Hunt and Murchison were involved because they knew of the investigation of Billy Sol Estes and the damage that would do to their reputations and the way business was (and is) done in Texas. It is fascinating to me to see this meeting at Murchison's to get a glimpse of how the shadow government worked then. They are much quieter now.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    -The doctors at Parkland in Dallas mainly saw the right rear exit wound. They saw no wound on the right side of the head because, allegedly, there was no wound there.
    From Six Seconds in Dallas (1967) by Josiah Thompson:
    "Marilyn Sitzman was only some 75 feet away looking down into the car when the President's head exploded. Miss Sitzman: And the next thing that I remembered clearly was the shot that hit directly in front of us, or almost directly in front of us, that hit him on the side of his face.

    Thompson: Where on the side of the head did that shot appear to hit?
    Miss Sitzman: I would say it'd be above the ear and to the front.
    Thompson: In other words, if one drew a line vertically upward from the tip of the ear, it would be forward of that line?
    Miss Sitzman: Yes.
    Thompson: It would then be back of the temple, but on the side of the head?
    Miss Sitzman: Between the eye and the ear. And we could see his brains come out, you know, his head opening; it must have been a terrible shot because it exploded his head more or less (Taped interview, Nov. 29, 1966)." - p. 102.

    "William and Gayle Newman saw the President hit in the side of the head (above) and, believing the last shot to have come from directly behind them, they threw themselves on the ground..." - p. 103.

    "S. M. Holland, we recall, saw the President's body as it passed under his vantage point on the overpass. And we recall too his statement that the "whole right side" of the President's head "including part of his face" had been blown off. Hurchel Jacks, driver of the Vice-Presidential car, saw the President's body at Parkland Hospital. "Before the President's body was covered," Jacks related in a statement filed November 28, "it appeared that the bullet had struck him above the right ear or near the temple" (18H801). Seth Kantor, a Scripps-Howard reporter, jotted down in his notebook at Parkland Hospital the phrase "intered [sic] right temple" (20H353), apparently in reference to the President's wounds." - p. 103.

    William and Gayle Newman were standing almost directly to JFK's right, and they heard the shots coming from behind them.

    It is my understanding that these people would not have seen the Zapruder film. I dont think the public saw it until 1975. They are describing a wound on the right side of his head, just like we see in the film. How does someone who has studied the case for decades ignore this?

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    It is my understanding that these people would not have seen the Zapruder film. I dont think the public saw it until 1975. They are describing a wound on the right side of his head, just like we see in the film. How does someone who has studied the case for decades ignore this?

    a shot from the front passenger side of the car would have hit him on the right side of his head as he was leaning forward with his head slightly turned to the left after being shot in the throat earlier.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    a shot from the front passenger side of the car would have hit him on the right side of his head as he was leaning forward with his head slightly turned to the left after being shot in the throat earlier.
    It could have, if he was turning to the left a little, and it looks like he is. If it came from the front, it could have entered at almost a tangential angle, causing the entrance wound to be explosive. It could have then exited at the right rear. Maybe they edited that exit out and left the right entrance wound? And then they tried to describe the side wound as one of exit from an Oswald shot?

    I dont get it though. Horne says the right wound (the famous wound) is fake. He says the doctors at Parkland didnt see it because it wasnt there, but the people in Dealey Plaza that day saw it.

    Someone must have shot him from the front to cause the throat wound. Yet, he was even farther down the street at that point, and it would be even less likely to have come from the North side storm drain. Maybe there's someone farther down the fence or somewhere else?

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    a shot from the front passenger side of the car would have hit him on the right side of his head as he was leaning forward with his head slightly turned to the left after being shot in the throat earlier.
    It could have, if he was turning to the left a little, and it looks like he is. If it came from the front, it could have entered at almost a tangential angle, causing the entrance wound to be explosive. It could have then exited at the right rear. Maybe they edited that exit out and left the right entrance wound? And then they tried to describe the side wound as one of exit from an Oswald shot?

    The video in this post
    (a very well done video) describes exactly that.. the back of his head has a "black out" on it and they emphasized the front right wound... but in the end they decided it was a crap editing job and shelved it all... for ever... it leaked out in the 70's by accident....

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    I dont get it though. Horne says the right wound (the famous wound) is fake. He says the doctors at Parkland didnt see it because it wasnt there, but the people in Dealey Plaza that day saw it.

    Someone must have shot him from the front to cause the throat wound. Yet, he was even farther down the street at that point, and it would be even less likely to have come from the North side storm drain. Maybe there's someone farther down the fence or somewhere else?
    Storm drain wouldn't have had a shot until right before the final shot on the X.. if there was a shooter there it was "one shot" taken IMO.... I suppose it's also possible that he was struck by multiple shots at the same time during the "stop on the X" by the limo driver... that would make sense as that was the last opertunity... why just have one shooter? (and a head shot was clearly the desired outcome).

    There is some talk about bodies being switched,, I have no clue about that stuff.... I'm just basing everything off his body movement in the car & the surrounding geography.. the body movement was impossible to fake with 1963 film editing tech....
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    There is some talk about bodies being switched,, I have no clue about that stuff....
    It's from a 1980 video: JFK Brain Missing - Body of JFK stolen and altered - JFK Autopsy
    Last edited by Atlas; 6th September 2016 at 19:23.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    The video in this post
    (a very well done video) describes exactly that.. the back of his head has a "black out" on it and they emphasized the front right wound... but in the end they decided it was a crap editing job and shelved it all... for ever... it leaked out in the 70's by accident....
    That is the same guy, Doug Horne, from the six and a half hour presentation I posted. He concludes that the side wound is fake, that it was draw onto the Zapruder film. He says the Parkland doctors didnt see a wound on the right. They only saw one on the lower, right rear of the head. I described it all above.

    I've posted a few examples of witnesses saying they saw the side wound in person. That would contradict what Horne is saying.

    Quote There is some talk about bodies being switched,, I have no clue about that stuff.... I'm just basing everything off his body movement in the car & the surrounding geography.. the body movement was impossible to fake with 1963 film editing tech....
    In the video you just referenced, he says the body movement is altered. He also says the famous head wound is fake. If the video is altered, then you cant make any conclusions based on it.

    I have posted the examples of witnesses to the head wound to show that Horne's conclusions are questionable.

    If it is true that the doctors at Parkland didnt see a wound on the right side of the head, then what is going on? Two of the people in the quotes I posted said they saw the body at the hospital and the wound was by the right temple.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    The video in this post
    (a very well done video) describes exactly that.. the back of his head has a "black out" on it and they emphasized the front right wound... but in the end they decided it was a crap editing job and shelved it all... for ever... it leaked out in the 70's by accident....
    That is the same guy, Doug Horne, from the six and a half hour presentation I posted. He concludes that the side wound is fake, that it was draw onto the Zapruder film. He says the Parkland doctors didnt see a wound on the right. They only saw one on the lower, right rear of the head. I described it all above.

    I've posted a few examples of witnesses saying they saw the side wound in person. That would contradict what Horne is saying.

    Quote There is some talk about bodies being switched,, I have no clue about that stuff.... I'm just basing everything off his body movement in the car & the surrounding geography.. the body movement was impossible to fake with 1963 film editing tech....
    In the video I referenced, he says the body movement is altered. I thought that the frames removed from the final shot sequence (they certainly were)would make his body seem to move faster, but still the general transfer of energy is displayed with a few frames cut from the middle of movement... I sort of ignored the rest of what horne said there, it didn't make sense.


    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    I have posted the examples of witnesses to the head wound to show that Horne's conclusions are questionable.

    If it is true that the doctors at Parkland didnt see a wound on the right side of the head, then what is going on? Two of the people in the quotes I posted said they saw the body at the hospital and the wound was by the right temple.
    I only agree with parts of what Horne spoke of, there's very little out there that I "swallow whole"; the video was edited, the "wound spray" was much greater, only 1 frame is present now when there were reportedly much more on the original & the exit would on the back of the head was obscured.. that was my main take away.

    Other than that Horne's theories don't interest me much, they don't make sense.
    Last edited by TargeT; 6th September 2016 at 21:37.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Last edited by Atlas; 6th September 2016 at 21:57.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Atlas (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    There is some talk about bodies being switched,, I have no clue about that stuff....
    It's from a 1980 video: JFK Brain Missing - Body of JFK stolen and altered - JFK Autopsy
    A video was posted earlier in this thread saying Tippit was killed by Liddy for the purpose of switching his body with JFK's....saying Tippit was a look alike for JFK. I'll be honest, the Tippit murder has always bothered me (who...and why??).



    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    I'm watching this documentary right now....presenting various different theories.



    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy


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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    enigma, when I happened to see The Men Who Killed Kennedy on the History Channel in the early 2000's, I was very surprised the truth was coming out on a national platform, but thought it represented finally an intelligent acknowledgement of the obvious. Then I happened to watch The Kennedys miniseries on the Reelz channel in 2011 and was naively dumbfounded that they were going back to the ridiculous Oswald lie. That miniseries shocked me out of a bit of complacency I had gotten into. I didn't realize how willingly blind the culture had become.

    If anyone you meet thinks the book depository nonsense is true, I would just ask them to explain the multiple documented witnesses who noted that the hole in the windshield indicated the bullet came from the opposite direction. This includes an auto company worker who actually replaced the windshield. The repaired car is now in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. There are thousands of proofs and logical inconsistencies. The windshield is an easy one for starters.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Merry Mom (here)
    enigma, when I happened to see The Men Who Killed Kennedy on the History Channel in the early 2000's, I was very surprised the truth was coming out on a national platform, but thought it represented finally an intelligent acknowledgement of the obvious. Then I happened to watch The Kennedys miniseries on the Reelz channel in 2011 and was naively dumbfounded that they were going back to the ridiculous Oswald lie. That miniseries shocked me out of a bit of complacency I had gotten into. I didn't realize how willingly blind the culture had become.

    If anyone you meet thinks the book depository nonsense is true, I would just ask them to explain the multiple documented witnesses who noted that the hole in the windshield indicated the bullet came from the opposite direction. This includes an auto company worker who actually replaced the windshield. The repaired car is now in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. There are thousands of proofs and logical inconsistencies. The windshield is an easy one for starters.
    Unfortunately, there are many people out there who still believe the official story and the Warren Report. God forbid their gov't would lie to them. These people are still asleep.

    Dave - Toronto

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