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Thread: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy


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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    @ Sam - with respect, all the "debunked driver did it" videos proved, was that the reflection of the sun in the other agent's hair (closest to the camera") wasn't a weapon. It doesn't and hasn't proved there was no weapon, or that the driver didn't do it. This is a classic example of dogma (throwing the baby out with the bathwater because one aspect of many is wrong when the other aspects may be correct).

    The other "aspect" as to the "why" is the often ignored threat that JFK intended to expose MJ-12 (Majority /Majic) & the overall UFO cover up. Like a covert "Section 31", MJ-12 (and its successors today) was and are accountable to no-one, including the POTUS. This, I believe, is very much connected, if not the primary reason he was "expedited", especially when you consider that situation today. Again, who had/has the most to lose if JFK exposed them?.
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 31st August 2016 at 07:28.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    1. Please create a Sub Forum for JFK
    2. The documentary Rich Man´s trick is a must watch for every Avaloner. The first 90 mins gives one of the most complete summaries of our history in the 20th Century.
    3. I studied my ass off for 4 years between the age of 14-18. Only studying Nazi Germany. Now i feel such a fool. I learnt how we defeated Fascism however its so clear that the Fascist state is more alive than ever! Lie after Lie i was programmed with. I can hold my own on the Nazi subject but now feel like crap thinking how could I buy into it without questioning the fact that it doesn't add up.
    4. Lesson learned. Dust myself down. Deprogrammed. Start again. Never stop!
    5. Thanks Avalon.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Atlas (here)
    Fresh footprints in the mud:
    Thank you.


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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    1. Please create a Sub Forum for JFK
    2. The documentary Rich Man´s trick is a must watch for every Avaloner. The first 90 mins gives one of the most complete summaries of our history in the 20th Century.
    3. I studied my ass off for 4 years between the age of 14-18. Only studying Nazi Germany. Now i feel such a fool. I learnt how we defeated Fascism however its so clear that the Fascist state is more alive than ever! Lie after Lie i was programmed with. I can hold my own on the Nazi subject but now feel like crap thinking how could I buy into it without questioning the fact that it doesn't add up.
    4. Lesson learned. Dust myself down. Deprogrammed. Start again. Never stop!
    5. Thanks Avalon.
    If the sub forum would be created, I would likely make a thread about my own, personal interesting story that ties directly to the final event... but again, in the strangest of ways.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    1. Please create a Sub Forum for JFK
    2. The documentary Rich Man´s trick is a must watch for every Avaloner. The first 90 mins gives one of the most complete summaries of our history in the 20th Century.
    3. I studied my ass off for 4 years between the age of 14-18. Only studying Nazi Germany. Now i feel such a fool. I learnt how we defeated Fascism however its so clear that the Fascist state is more alive than ever! Lie after Lie i was programmed with. I can hold my own on the Nazi subject but now feel like crap thinking how could I buy into it without questioning the fact that it doesn't add up.
    4. Lesson learned. Dust myself down. Deprogrammed. Start again. Never stop!
    5. Thanks Avalon.
    If the sub forum would be created, I would likely make a thread about my own, personal interesting story that ties directly to the final event... but again, in the strangest of ways.
    Yes, please do.
    I've never forgotten your post about your personal link to the event and would like to know more about it.
    Last edited by Eram; 31st August 2016 at 14:55.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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  12. Link to Post #107
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    @ Sam - with respect, all the "debunked driver did it" videos proved, was that the reflection of the sun in the other agent's hair (closest to the camera") wasn't a weapon. It doesn't and hasn't proved there was no weapon, or that the driver didn't do it. This is a classic example of dogma (throwing the baby out with the bathwater because one aspect of many is wrong when the other aspects may be correct).

    The other "aspect" as to the "why" is the often ignored threat that JFK intended to expose MJ-12 (Majority /Majic) & the overall UFO cover up. Like a covert "Section 31", MJ-12 (and its successors today) was and are accountable to no-one, including the POTUS. This, I believe, is very much connected, if not the primary reason he was "expedited", especially when you consider that situation today. Again, who had/has the most to lose if JFK exposed them?.
    Hi KiwiElf - Please be kind... you have a good point. I had not considered until reading your post that the driver could have done something with a weapon unseen by any video or photo. Yet the evidence that has been cited as "proof" he did, well I had personally discovered on my own was likely simply the glare from the head of the man sitting in the front right passenger seat.

    But you are right that he still could have done something. They all wanted him dead yet it is very hard to imagine that "the they" would have been able to penetrate that level of The Secret Service but we also have "the stand down" order which suggests that even the Secret Service was compromised. Perhaps "the they" had blackmail on Greer and others yet also, the stand down order has supposedly been debunked.

    Now, what is even more interesting is your mention of the UFO/MJ-12 theory. I left it out for one reason and one reason only. A far larger proportion of readers would consider the multiple reasons I mentioned (which are all very well researched and all quite true and all, when combined, important enough on their own to incite the coup), but the fact is that my favorite theory of all is this one you brought up yet I have also found this theory often goes too far for far to many otherwise potentially open minded individuals who then shut down listening altogether.

    And the reason why is because if that theory, as I have researched it to have played out, was true... the men who ordered it did so within 'the law' as they interpreted the law. Of course, it was Kennedy's threat to secret 'laws' that were supposedly part of the MJ-12 mandate. And Dulles was supposedly on MJ-12 and in fact was supposedly MJ-1 and all he needed was 6 other votes for "the order" to eliminate Kennedy to be implemented.

    My favorite book on this theory is the one put together by Michael Salla. Sadly, soon after he released this book, he fell under "the spell of the Corey Goode Space Myth" and that has had an impact upon me with regards to his critical thinking capabilities.

    Still - the UFO/MJ-12 theory is my favorite of all and I am glad you brought it up, KiwiElf.

    One more comment to you personally. Thank you for being a member here and making so many contributions. I cannot emphasize more my appreciation for your contributions. Kindly, Sam
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 15:57.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Thank you Sam

    JFK did make many enemies, and all those and more are legitimate reasons for wanting him removed. (And like the "driver theory", the "MJ-12 coverup angle" are the ones "they" want us to stay away from - the other theories serve "them" as useful distractions to have us arguing about it forever. ie "Look over here..."

    Our clue to this is ONI: (Office of Naval Intelligence).
    Why on Earth would the Navy be involved with investigating the assassination at all?

    Clues:
    Bill Cooper worked for Naval Intelligence and was in a "position to know"
    but he was not the first to suggest the driver theory. The "dogma" for this to get people off the scent is always "Oh yeah but he was a nutter" - case closed

    Bethesda Naval Hospital is the same hospital Secretary Forrestal "fell" from when, as part of the original MJ-12 team, he wanted to tell the public about the true alien situation on Earth & the Roswell Crash - another cover-up. Of course, he was "nuts" too

    Area 51/Groom Lake is a Naval Facility, NOT Airforce

    According to UFO Retrieval history, 1941: US Navy recovers their first crashed alien craft in the ocean west of San Diego – six years before the infamous ‘Roswell’ crash. Alien craft and bodies taken to Wright-Patterson AFB for study. (US Navy has held a leadership position in UFO matters since).

    According to recent theory, the SSP (Secret Space Program) is an extension of the US Navy

    (Don't give up on Dr Salla just because he believes in Corey Goode - same "dogma": at work again )

    You see the pattern & psychology at work here in our petty "dogma"??? And "they" know how to work it; we fall for it every single time
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 31st August 2016 at 15:46.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Also check out the flow chart here:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Relationships

    While it may be theoretical, it's very relevant to the whole JFK Assassination & UFO Cover-up - the very Military Industrial Complex that another POTUS warned us about:

  16. Link to Post #110
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    .
    Mods note:

    Folks, we've been discussing this again today, and the mods agreed we should indeed have a specific JFK subforum. So I've created it, just now.

    This is the first thread there, but there've been numerous other JFK threads over the years; we'll get round to moving those, or quite a few of those, soon.

    Thanks to all for the very interesting discussion here. All excellent stuff.

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    Cool Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    Final (fatal) shooter: storm drain where the vehicle slowed down.... 7 or 8 "real" shooters in total, 1 fall guy.
    Storm Drain, yes. (The shooter was Johnny Roselli.)
    Johnny Roselli... the 7th shooter. According to this Article from Veterans Today, By Jim Fetzer on May 1, 2015, where they give the names of 6 shooters.

    " Six shooters who participated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, including three with ties to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), were named by a prominent critic of the Warren Commission Report (WCR). Remarkably, Lee Harvey Oswald, the Warren Commission’s lone-assassin-designate, was not among them. "

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/05...ot-among-them/

    PS... Thank you Bill Ryan, for the JFK Sub-Forum...
    Last edited by Ines; 31st August 2016 at 16:27.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Congratulations Dave and thank you Bill (now, all we need is one for Roswell too... )
    From Bill: All right, all right!
    --> The Roswell Incident

    Sam, I'm dyin' to see your new thread
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 31st August 2016 at 16:48.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Cool KiwiElf yet I do feel that your use of the word dogma may over describe what you correctly pointed out regarding Greer or Salla.

    First Greer - that being that I had lowered the odds that Greer had somehow "shot" Kennedy and in fact, pretty well ruled it out. Your point made me realize that it would be a mistake for me to rule it out just because I had figured out the head glare was what every video that I saw that suggested the Greer theory used as "proof" Greer. Because of my own conclusions, I focused on other potential shooters. I would not call the "head glare debunking" dogma, I would call it an adjustment in odds that Greer in fact "made the critical head exploding shot." As to who actually took that shot, for me, is far less important as to the why and "who" as a group that was behind it all though knowing that fact might assist in determining the degree of involvement each group may have had in the operation.

    As to Salla, like any source of information, I have to rate his credibility. When Salla promoted Goode and when Bill asked Salla about this, I read Salla's response and I am sorry, but I have lowered my own trust and faith in Salla's discernment based on both his promotion of Goode and his response to Bill.

    Having said that, I am also aware that the book Salla wrote was almost completely made up of already produced "information" and documents that have been discussed for years as to whether they are real or not or are being interpreted correctly or not. My personal opinion is that Salla put together a great book (JFK's Last Stand) and added some important considerations and theories based on this documentation. The timing factor also is quite interesting (it appeared there was desperation to make Kennedy dead fast as well as Marilyn Monroe). In addition, Salla makes a good case that they had RFK blackmailed (I always wondered why he kept his mouth as shut as he did... if it were my brother, I would have been been screaming to the world about it).

    But to call my "lowering of my faith in Salla" to be dogma doesn't seem appropriate. I didn't rule out the possibility the UFO/MJ-12 theory... I pointed out a real circumstance that calls into question Salla's judgment.

    BUT! I also have a theory about that! And here it is... perhaps Salla's JFK book caused some feathers to be ruffled and for this reason, he may have been threatened so that he would get on the Corey bandwagon for the very purpose of providing most folks the very reason to question his discernment capabilities. Another possibility is that the book caused him to receive directed energy weaponry attention (remote influencing) that produced what I have determined is an inexplicable shift in the information he produced - that someone who had such a good reputation for reasonably grounded views related to aliens, UFOs and off world matters would suddenly be a huge Corey Goode promoter is a real head-scratcher... again all just my opinion.

    Not dogma here... instead, analysis and an ever changing set of probabilities based on information and based on how that information impacts my own subjective operational assumptions of the day.

    This (my own thread) will be an interesting thread and will come forth soon, I promise.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 16:50.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  23. Link to Post #114
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Also check out the flow chart here:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Relationships

    While it may be theoretical, it's very relevant to the whole JFK Assassination & UFO Cover-up - the very Military Industrial Complex that another POTUS warned us about:
    Is there a link to this chart which can be increased in size? My eyes are too poor to read this! Uggghhhh the frustrations of getting old.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Awesome Sam - yes Salla's JFK book, is also cited in RETRIEVALS OF THE 3rd KIND, Michael Schratt (2013) -
    There are a few mentions of JFK; here are a couple of extracts (emphasis mine):

    Quote What did John F. Kennedy know about UFO crash/retrievals? Did he tell Marilyn Monroe UFO secrets “beneath the sheets?” A recently acquired alleged CIA memo dated August 3, 1962, indicates that President Kennedy made a visit to a secret air-base for the purpose of “inspecting things from outer space.” The memo also makes reference to crashed spacecraft and dead bodies.
    Quote Exactly what did JFK know about the overall UFO situation? Was he told UFO/alien related secrets by his good friend U.S Navy Secretary James Forrestal (alleged original member of MJ-12).

    According to the recently published book Kennedy’s Last Stand by researcher Michael Salla, the answer appears to be a resounding “yes.” Due to his father’s multiple contacts within the world of politics, finance and the military, Joseph Kennedy was successful in “pulling the strings” for his son John which eventually landed him a position within Naval intelligence. After Joe Kennedy “greased the skids” for his son in 1941, JFK was now in a position to come into the close personal confidence of James Forrestal who served as Secretary of the Navy from 1944-1947. Students of ufology will recall that James Forestall was killed on May 22, 1949 after he allegedly committed suicide by jumping out of the 16th floor window of the Bethesda Naval Hospital. Was he murdered due to a “conflict of interest” between the other members of MJ-12? Was Secretary James Forrestal the first victim of the powerful UFO cover-up?


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Also check out the flow chart here:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Relationships

    While it may be theoretical, it's very relevant to the whole JFK Assassination & UFO Cover-up - the very Military Industrial Complex that another POTUS warned us about:
    Is there a link to this chart which can be increased in size? My eyes are too poor to read this! Uggghhhh the frustrations of getting old.
    Oh, I am sorry - yes just click on the picture/chart directly, it will open up in a window of its own, click it again and you'll get a magnifying glass cursor, click again for full size, quite readable
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 31st August 2016 at 17:09.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Ines (here)
    Johnny Roselli... the 7th shooter. According to this Article from Veterans Today, By Jim Fetzer on May 1, 2015, where they give the names of 6 shooters.

    " Six shooters who participated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, including three with ties to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), were named by a prominent critic of the Warren Commission Report (WCR). Remarkably, Lee Harvey Oswald, the Warren Commission’s lone-assassin-designate, was not among them. "
    Quote Posted by Betty (here)
    If court reporters had been allowed to take testimony of witnesses to the 9-11 tragedy, things would be different. Of course Judy Wood's testimony would be the greatest.
    Jim Fetzer and Judy Wood are not reliable sources of information. They are shills, idiots, or both.

    Fetzer published And I Suppose We Didnt Go to the Moon, Either? He wrote the prologue which includes an overview of the 'Paul is Dead' material. During this discussion he decides to quote a story from the Hollywood Inquirer that was later reprinted by worldnewsdailyreport.com. http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/former-b...ook-alike/

    Fetzer talking about Ringo Starr article:

    Quote It was extremely interesting for me to read a report about Ringo having claimed that Paul had died in 1966 and had been replaced. Because I had done research on this subject for at least three years... I thought it was an extremely clear explanation of what had happened and how Paul's replacement had come about using a look-alike by the name of "Billy Shears".

    My colleague, Kevin Barrett, faulted the article because it is alleged to have come from the Hollywood Inquirer, which appears to be no more than a shell web site.

    No doubt, the source is not notable; but it is an elementary fallacy to judge the truth or falsity of a claim on the basis of its source. (This is knows as 'the genetic fallacy'.)...

    Strictly speaking, of course, we could both be correct, where a source of no reputation nevertheless offers a story that is true, which, indeed is my position about this matter.
    He used a story from a non-existent source made up by a joke website that created the fictional story. There is no Hollywood Inquirer, and worldnewsdailyreport.com is clearly a comedy/fake-news website that makes stories up.

    This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in print, and Fetzer put his name on it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Hi KiwiElf... it appears Post #116 is along the same lines you suggested. There's an expression for this - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Your point is well made, just because some information may turn out to be false does not mean all information from the same source IS false.

    Note that Fetzer simply points out information that came from several researchers. I make odds VERY HIGH that indeed Mac Wallace was a shooter (likely the sixth floor west window) and if so, that creates a direct inference about LBJ's role as an example. In addition, the finger print was found and verified yet it is also possible that this fingerprint was a plant or that those who were involved in the fingerprint matter were in on it.

    Still, I have to make odds 99% that it was a coup. Note, my personal rule is to never make anything 100% certain and that my highest rating is 99%.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 19:11.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    The video from the discovery channel... I dunno how much I'd trust that one

    Pretty workable angle here:




    Looks very plausible from this:
    If I am reading your post correctly, Jaynes moves the assassination point up about twenty yards to make the shot possible, and having done that, only his head is visible. And from what I assume are your Google Earth pics, that means JFK would be almost to the stairs. Yet that is clearly incorrect because we can see in the Moorman pic and in the the Marie Muchmore video that he is clearly before the stairs.

    I think this Greg Jaynes guy proves my point. I dont like trusting Discovery channel either, but their results appear accurate in this case. If the assassination point is moved back to its correct spot, JFK wouldnt be visible. Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    Last edited by blackdog; 31st August 2016 at 19:15.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Regarding the assassination spot, they have an X that marks the spot of the fatal head shot(s). Based on all the times I have been down there to the assassination site and the films, and photos I have seen, it is my opinion that the X has to be pretty accurate. I will search my own photos now. I am pretty sure the X is a good 20 feet before the steps - here's a quick photo of the X found on the net.

    EDIT added: Here we go... a good 20 or 30 feet at least before the steps.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 19:14.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Avalon Member blackdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Regarding the assassination spot, they have an X that marks the spot of the fatal head shot(s). Based on all the times I have been down there to the assassination site and the films, and photos I have seen, it is my opinion that the X has to be pretty accurate. I will search my own photos now. I am pretty sure the X is a good 20 feet before the steps - here's a quick photo of the X found on the net.
    You can see the X in those pictures.

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