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Thread: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    see the update to my last post, blackdog... there's a good angle and it shows the steps well after the X.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    [QUOTE=blackdog;1094498]
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    If I am reading your post correctly, Jaynes moves the assassination point up about twenty yards to make the shot possible, and having done that, only his head is visible. And from what I assume are your Google Earth pics, that means JFK would be almost to the stairs. Yet that is clearly incorrect because we can see in the Moorman pic and in the the Marie Muchmore video that he is clearly before the stairs.

    I think this Greg Jaynes guy prooves my point. I dont like trusting Discovery channel either, but their results appear accurate in this case. If the assassination point is moved back to its correct spot, JFK wouldnt be visible. Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    well, yes and no.
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    I didn't elaborate, but think about how much that view changes with 10" of asphalt removed, the angle looks very right, the height is the issue, but those 10" removed... well then you have a very nice shot, one that would allow you to conceal the weapon entirely in the drain for even a longer barrelled rifle.
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    This also lines up with how his body reacted to the shot.. it had to come from the front of the car somewhere, more front than side.
    Last edited by TargeT; 31st August 2016 at 19:22.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Here's my own photo - the X can be seen if you click the photo and then enlarge -

    Click image for larger version

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    Note I am only showing this as information. I don't have a dog in the hunt as to who did what from where.

    We cannot even be sure that X is in the right spot. The whole event has been massively managed and if I were one or a part of "them" I am sure I would do that too.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 19:25.
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  6. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    The rate of movement at the moment of the kill shot(s) was almost a standstill. At that close range and angle, if the shot were possible, an expert would have no problem making it IMO.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Avalon Member blackdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    The rate of movement at the moment of the kill shot(s) was almost a standstill. At that close range and angle, if the shot were possible, an expert would have no problem making it IMO.
    He cant even see the target.

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  10. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    The rate of movement at the moment of the kill shot(s) was almost a standstill. At that close range and angle, if the shot were possible, an expert would have no problem making it IMO.
    He cant even see the target.
    Hi blackdog, Understand... yet you are stating this as fact and my only question is, how has this been established as fact (I don't watch Discovery if that is your source, so I would not have seen it proven). Thanks... Sam

    Added: Target's post points out the difference in street height which surely should be considered with regards to the room the potential shooter had.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 19:56.
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    Avalon Member blackdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I didn't elaborate, but think about how much that view changes with 10" of asphalt removed, the angle looks very right, the height is the issue, but those 10" removed... well then you have a very nice shot, one that would allow you to conceal the weapon entirely in the drain for even a longer barrelled rifle.
    It doesnt change at all. The edge of the drain is in the same place. ...unless the shooter is leaning out of the drain and into the road. JFK is at least twenty yards back from where Jaynes is. Even when he came into view it would be an awkward shot and the view would likely have been obstructed. Anything is possible, but this is very low probability.
    Last edited by blackdog; 31st August 2016 at 19:51.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Hi blackdog, Understand... yet you are stating this as fact and my only question is, how has this been established as fact (I don't watch Discovery if that is your source, so I would not have seen it proven). Thanks... Sam
    I have posted the video in this thread. I have also posted pics of Dealey plaza that show the X, among other things.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1093127

    Edit: I am not stating anything as fact. I'm drawing conclusions from the pictures and evidence we have seen, and I'm surprised that few agree. The shot could have come from anywhere. I'm talking about probability.
    Last edited by blackdog; 31st August 2016 at 19:48.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    It doesnt change at all. The edge of the drain is in the same place. ...unless the shooter is leaning out of the drain and into the road. JFK is at least twenty yards back from where Jaynes is. Even when he came into view it would be an awkward shot and the view would have likely been obstructed. Anything is possible, but this is very low probability.
    yeah, it does.. the problem is the vertical component.. 20 yards at that distance (76 feet IIRC) is maybe 1-1.5" of difference in sideways motion, but VERTICALLY (with the asphalt build up) it couldn't happen.. with out the asphalt it could easily happen for the vertical component.

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Here's my own photo - the X can be seen if you click the photo and then enlarge -

    Attachment 34139

    Note I am only showing this as information. I don't have a dog in the hunt as to who did what from where.

    We cannot even be sure that X is in the right spot. The whole event has been massively managed and if I were one or a part of "them" I am sure I would do that too.
    assuming this portion of the video is legit (seems to be):


    That does not indicate a shot from an elevated area, If I shot him from up there he would have been knocked sideways mostly and down, not back mostly and left... (every action has an equal and opposite re-action, just using a bit of Occam's razor to his movement), that's all I'm basing my thoughts on, and the fact that maybe the drain had a viable angle.

    Also, why would this cop be looking at the drain? If I heard a shot from the hill above, I wouldn't bother looking at the drain.. for anyone east of the drain (where JFK's car drove from) it could easily be misconstrued as a gunshot from the hill.. most civilians can't even differentiate the sounds made by different calibers, much less place more than a "general direction" for incoming fire.. Cops (I would assume) should be better at this.
    .

    http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...ri/Haygood.jpg

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Plus, if there was a shooter in that drain, he would be aiming at a moving target that had just come into view. The probability is extremely low, imo.
    The rate of movement at the moment of the kill shot(s) was almost a standstill. At that close range and angle, if the shot were possible, an expert would have no problem making it IMO.
    many eyewitnesses say complete stop.. I think this is why the cop that was near the storm drain laid his bike on it's side.. they were stopped.
    Last edited by TargeT; 31st August 2016 at 19:55.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Hey to make sure no one gets the wrong idea about my own opinions as to where the shots came from... and whether there was or was not a shooter in the storm drain. Target makes a good case based on the action of Kennedy's head movement and blackdog is making a plausible case that the shot angle may not have been there, what I wonder from both of you is... do you think this was a coup?

    I can already assume Target would say, Yes... but what is your theory and assumption(s) (if any) blackdog?

    EDIT Update: I did not read many other posts in this thread until just this moment (5:15 Central Daylight Time) and I now understand that blackdog does indeed see the assassination as a conspiracy by citing it appears (in his opinion) that the kill shot came from the grassy knoll.
    Last edited by Sammy; 31st August 2016 at 22:18.
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  20. Link to Post #131
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Hey to make sure no one gets the wrong idea about my own opinions as to where the shots came from... and whether there was or was not a shooter in the storm drain. Target makes a good case based on the action of Kennedy's head movement and blackdog is making a plausible case that the shot angle may not have been there, what I wonder from both of you is... do you think this was a coup?

    I can already assume Target would say, Yes... but what is your theory and assumption(s) (if any) blackdog?
    I think a COUP happens when one party in power is taken out by another power... I don't think JFK was ever a "power", or at least never really a part of "the power structure" that ruled then... I'd say it was more of a clean up move.. they thought they could black mail him or leverage him in some way to "play ball".... but couldn't, so they just removed him before he went too far.

    Maybe also a subtle reminder to "stay in line" to the rest of the people they were "leveraging".

    But I don't know a ton about the political environment of the time, so I could be missing some things.
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Hey to make sure no one gets the wrong idea about my own opinions as to where the shots came from... and whether there was or was not a shooter in the storm drain. Target makes a good case based on the action of Kennedy's head movement and blackdog is making a plausible case that the shot angle may not have been there, what I wonder from both of you is... do you think this was a coup?

    I can already assume Target would say, Yes... but what is your theory and assumption(s) (if any) blackdog?
    I think a COUP happens when one party in power is taken out by another power... I don't think JFK was ever a "power", or at least never really a part of "the power structure" that ruled then... I'd say it was more of a clean up move.. they thought they could black mail him or leverage him in some way to "play ball".... but couldn't, so they just removed him before he went too far.

    Maybe also a subtle reminder to "stay in line" to the rest of the people they were "leveraging".

    But I don't know a ton about the political environment of the time, so I could be missing some things.
    I see I should have better clarified my question to blackdog as I do not know his view.

    Was this an action taken by "a lone gunman" or was it a conspiracy?

    It is clear that however the event would be characterized, that Target is not a proponent of the former, but a proponent of the latter.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    No bullet was fired from a storm drain.
    The Dallas PD dictaphone tape records 7 shots fired.
    The limo was going downhill to get under the triple overpass. Thus the first bullet trajectory angle is consistent with a shot fired from under the overpass.
    The Zapruder film was indeed doctored at the Kodak skunk works. They were able to remove the pink spray that exited JFK's head after the grassy knoll shot and remove some frames from the film. But it does not change the true story.
    Don't believe anything spewed by any mass media TV outlet. Discovery, the History Channel, A&E, all of them are mouthpieces for the elites.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I think a COUP happens when one party in power is taken out by another power... I don't think JFK was ever a "power", or at least never really a part of "the power structure" that ruled then... I'd say it was more of a clean up move.. they thought they could black mail him or leverage him in some way to "play ball".... but couldn't, so they just removed him before he went too far.

    Maybe also a subtle reminder to "stay in line" to the rest of the people they were "leveraging".
    Agreed. He was stirring things up and posing a threat to the powers that be and their agenda. He had disputes with the CIA and Allen Dulles, a major power player, and he was a threat to the continuation and escalation of Vietnam, among other things.

    Like TargeT says, it may have been a display of power, showing people in the US and around the world that the network in charge can get to anyone at any time and place.

    It wasnt exactly a coup though. The power players and their agenda were always there. They did the same thing with MLK and RFK.

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    I see I should have better clarified my question to blackdog as I do not know his view.

    Was this an action taken by "a lone gunman" or was it a conspiracy?
    It was a pretty blatant conspiracy. Shooting Oswald on national TV and then telling the world Jack Ruby, the mafia-affiliated owner of a strip club, felt bad for JFK's wife and kids is a joke.
    Last edited by blackdog; 31st August 2016 at 23:00.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Hey....we finally got a JFK sub-forum!!

    Thank you Avalon!!

    Dave - Toronto

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    .
    Mods note:

    Folks, we've been discussing this again today, and the mods agreed we should indeed have a specific JFK subforum. So I've created it, just now.

    This is the first thread there, but there've been numerous other JFK threads over the years; we'll get round to moving those, or quite a few of those, soon.

    Thanks to all for the very interesting discussion here. All excellent stuff.
    Thx Bill. I hope I wasn't too insistent (insert smiley face here).

    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Excerpt discussing Kennedy’s Last Stand: Eisenhower, UFOs, MJ-12 and JFK’s Assassination by Michael E. Salla, Ph.D.,

    In searching for answers to who killed President Kennedy we need to start with the death of his mentor, James Forrestal in 1949. Forrestal became the first Secretary of Defense in 1947, a position he held until March, 1949. Forrestal was a visionary who thought Americans had a right to know about the existence of extraterrestrial life and technologies. Forrestal was sacked by President Truman because he was revealing the truth to various officials, including Kennedy who was a Congressman at the time. Forrestal’s ideals and vision inspired Kennedy, and laid the seed for what would happen 12 years later.

    After winning the 1960 Presidential election, Kennedy learned a shocking truth from President Eisenhower. The control group set up to run highly classified extraterrestrial technologies, Majestic-12, had become a rogue government agency. Eisenhower warned Kennedy that Majestic-12 had to be reined in. It posed a direct threat to American liberties and democratic processes. Kennedy followed Eisenhower’s advice, and set out to realize James Forrestal’s vision. The same forces that orchestrated Forrestal’s death, opposed Kennedy’s efforts at every turn. When Kennedy was on the verge of succeeding, by forcing the CIA to share classified UFO information with other government agencies on November 12, 1963, he was assassinated ten days later.

    Kennedy’s Last Stand
    is a book about how two American Presidents, Eisenhower and Kennedy, confronted “black world” operations outside of the control of “white world” constitutional government representatives. Kennedy’s Last Stand reveals how JFK tried to realize his friend’s and mentor’s vision of a world where humanity openly knows about extraterrestrial life. The book reveals for the first time, the principal government officials responsible for denying that vision, and orchestrating the assassination of President Kennedy.

    NOTE: Is this book ( PDF)available from the Avalon Library?
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 1st September 2016 at 04:54.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Looking at the scene from above straight down via Google Earth -

    The first photo shows the scene. Even the X shows up on Google Earth -

    Click image for larger version

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    I drew two lines. The black line is parallel with the sidewalk. The red line is the angle of the shot from the storm drain.

    Click image for larger version

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    It would be tight but it does appear possible to me.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Yeah but again, JFK's head is pointing the other way (to the left), the angles don't match the head wound from a drain shot (that is, if we assume the autopsy pics/testimonies are accurate, and maybe they're not - and maybe, there are more head shots that appear as one?)

    One or the other is wrong - logically, they cannot both be right.

    (However, could witnesses who believed they heard shots from the grassy knoll be confusing the grassy knoll location with the drain? - they are close - but not for the fatal shot) - Sounds echoing around can play tricks on people's perceptions.

    I'm also curious about the claimed belief that "the limo came to a (almost) standstill" - in the Zapruder footage, it appears to slow down a bit before and after the fatal shot, but not much... ? It maintains a good "jogging speed" and then speeds up after the agent jumps on the back ...

    The "original" Zapruder footage, un-enhanced (likely a copy not the original)



    The digitally remastered version


    Last edited by KiwiElf; 1st September 2016 at 18:40.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)

    Jim Fetzer and Judy Wood are not reliable sources of information. They are shills, idiots, or both.
    According to whom?
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 1st September 2016 at 07:10.

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    The angles don't work because of the autopsy photos and the position of the car when each shot is fired (to me, anyway. Did you refer back to the two pics I added?) You need to compare the map, each step of the Zapbruder footage, each shot, where everyone's sitting and how Connally got hit, too.

    The grassy knoll shooter works for the throat shot, but not the others.

    The Zapbruder footage is clearer in the movie THE KILLING OF AMERICA - 1981 before they started "enhancing" it but you will have to step frame it - at least it's not cropped. It's still the best publicly available evidence. (You can even see the puff of smoke fired from the "alleged" weapon by the driver and his left arm reaching over his shoulder! Unfortunately, it was a "banned" video in the US - I wonder why? - and it was removed from video shops shortly after its release, YouTube etc. - I have both. - It may be available on torrent sites). Can't see that in the "enhanced versions"

    I'd have to draw a pile of diagrams with a top down view to better explain it, but the 6 shots explained by Groden in my earlier post pretty well sum it up, and yeah I'm still favouring the driver theory for the fatal shot atm irrespective that it's been debunked (they've all been debunked). Why? Because atm, it still makes the most logical sense based on the evidence;

    * the fact that the driver lied in his testimony
    * the angles "work" - all of them,
    * the massive fatal wound "works" (and Cooper's description of the weapon and why)
    * the autopsy pics "work" (including the clear tampering of the earlier ones)
    * Jackie only testified in the Warren Commission - she never spoke of it again. It's plausible she was coached with the "picking up her husband's brains" excuse (did she have a choice?)
    * I'm convinced by Jackie's actions that she is trying to get out of the car - she doesn't look at the trunk, see his brains and then think - "oh.. I'll pick up his brain bits"; she literally dumps JFK off her lap & jumps straight out without looking at what might be on the trunk (and is pushed back into the car again by the agent following the car).
    * the tie in to Bethesda Naval Hospital - same hospital that Secretary Forrestal "fell out the window" to his death (Forrestal was an original member of MJ-12 and wanted to tell the public)

    Then there's Cooper's testimony (Cooper didn't get to where he was in Naval Intelligence at the time if he was a liar or nutter and he was in a position to "know"). Why would he risk the flak that would come publicly if he was making it up? (Not to mention instantly making him a "dead man walking" - you need to read that section in Behold a Pale Horse) and then wade through all the other theories. Furthermore, it has been seen that the public version(s) of the Zapbruder footage has been tampered with, as he stated. (I saw one of the original video tapes that Cooper (& Lear) were showing at his lectures that he claims is hidden from the public - it does show it quite clearly and it is different from the ones you see on YouTube).

    Of course "they'd" debunk it because that would be irrefutable proof that the "agency" was involved. An inside "government" job, involving Bush & Johnson etc as well. A Cabal killing. (Also JFK's threat to crush the CIA, expose MJ-12, and what was really on the Moon just before the shooting to me is the strongest motive. He had to be "expedited").

    Just call me... very suspicious
    I found that film you were talking about

    http://putlocker.plus/the-killing-of...egashare9.html

    10:25 shows kennedy being shot. I don't know what you mean when you said you can see the driver or smoke from the gun, as the film shown in the documentary is zoomed in on kennedy.

    Edit: I found this gem linked on educateyourself.com




    You can see that although the frame is blurry, when the frame transitions to the next frame, Greer did indeed have his hand up.
    Last edited by 7alon; 1st September 2016 at 10:15.

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to 7alon For This Post:

    KiwiElf (1st September 2016)

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