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Thread: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

  1. Link to Post #141
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    I'm also curious about the claimed belief that "the limo came to a (almost) standstill" - in the Zapruder footage, it appears to slow down a bit before and after the fatal shot, but not much... ? It maintains a good "jogging speed" and then speeds up after the agent jumps on the back ...
    All films I have seen of the incident show evidence of editing (compared to editing standards of today, very SLOPPY editing) so I'm very ambiguous about all this.. however, analysis of the video and witnesses agree..








    Evidence for "shot from the front":



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  3. Link to Post #142
    New Zealand Avalon Member KiwiElf's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    @7alon
    Good that you found it ... but that putlocker version is quite poor quality. You need to advance further into the segment to about the 15-16:00 mark. Sounds like you're watching the beginning of the segment which does begin with a very tight zoom in).

    Then... Go to my post #42... (I later added I'd found a very good quality torrent on Pirate Bay & suggested it be downloaded, and slowed down - VLC as a good player. (The largest of the piratebay choices is the best in MKV format. Downloading it also gives you the ability to loop it, slow or speed it up, alter the contrast, brightness, saturation & sharpness etc. (I do that with YouTube vids too; I download them - the real "interesting ones" have a habit of "disappearing" )

    Nice find for the other 2 tho

    @TargeT
    Also nice find! (and explains a lot!) It also reinforces my earlier comment, that as Cooper said, the split seconds before and after the fatal shot in all the public copies of the Zapruder footage are missing )
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Don't know whether either of you have looked at the two videos back at post #138, (un-enhanced & remastered) but compare the difference, particularly the apparent damage to JFK's head - what do you see? (Again, it will be a whole lot better if you can download and study them )
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 1st September 2016 at 16:17.

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  5. Link to Post #143
    Canada Avalon Member Spellbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    The idea that the limo driver shot Kennedy is pure poppycock.

    Dave - Toronto

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  7. Link to Post #144
    Canada Avalon Member Spellbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Sometimes I wonder if the shooters themselves know which of them hit and which of them missed. I also wonder if they knew each other, or was it so compartmentalized that none of the shooters knew of one another, each operating separately under separate orders.

    Dave - Toronto

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  9. Link to Post #145
    United States Avalon Retired Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    When you watch the last video in this post what is seen is that the backseat is almost perfectly perpendicular to the camera at the moment his head explodes... and his head clearly goes back, to the left. It seems impossible that the shot could have come from a direction other than from the front, right. And it is quite plausible that the shot came from a lower angle based on the action of the head which acts as if he was hit with an uppercut (a boxing term for a punch that comes from below and hits the chin).

    I have been behind that fence many times and have observed that potential shot while focusing on the X. Based on where someone would be standing with a rifle riding on the fence, where the car was when at least one of the potentially two fatal blows occurred and about how high Kennedy's head was while riding in the car at that same moment, the angle of the shot would have been slightly downward but not much.
    Last edited by Sammy; 2nd September 2016 at 02:35.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  11. Link to Post #146
    New Zealand Avalon Member KiwiElf's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Hi Sam, Given Target's last video @ #141 above, I'm not disagreeing with you : this Dr. adds some interesting evidence - they're talking 3 skull shots as opposed to 1; front above JFK's right eye, (frontal shot), right side above his ear, (front/side shot), and one to the back of the skull (rear shot). He hasn't used the Zapruder footage at all - his analysis is purely medical evidence. If this is correct, then the Zapruder footage really has been stuffed around with big time, as has the Mary Moorman footage, (TargeT's 3rd video above that). The car braking to a stop (1st & 2nd video certainly shows that has been chopped from all the public Zapruder & Moorman footage (s).

    @ Dave & blackdog with respect, - saying something is just "poppycock" or "nuts" (or calling people like Judy Woods "idiots or shills" etc), without any reasoning or justification to back it up, doesn't really add anything, does it? What's missing is the "why?"

    The problem with an opinion is that everybody has one, (and yes, we're all entitled to have 'em), but what are yours based on? Opinions, without basis, are just "baseless opinions" (and not necessarily facts)

    Dave, you wanted a sub-forum for JFK, you got it. At least be open to other theories that do have some reasonable evidence behind them.

    The evidence for the driver (OR drain theory) is as good as any other, (certainly better than an entire book attempting to justify an "accidental shot" by an agent, or the Warren Commission's flawed conclusions). The above evidence suggests 3 skull hits. Please, show us the evidence for your "opinions" with some reasoning to go with it - either way - instead of just "dissing" something you don't personally agree with.
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 2nd September 2016 at 07:54.

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  13. Link to Post #147
    New Zealand Avalon Member KiwiElf's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT
    All films I have seen of the incident show evidence of editing (compared to editing standards of today, very SLOPPY editing) so I'm very ambiguous about all this.. however, analysis of the video and witnesses agree..
    Lots of interesting things to suck your attention and time
    Yeah, me too, more than ever! (I did watch all of your last posted videos!)

    Pre PhotoShop, you couldn't do much with 8mm film directly; however, (and very expensive & time-consuming), back then, you could take the original 8mm film, create huge prints off each frame, and literally "stick" your "wizardry" onto the print, (literally cut and paste - with scissors!) re-photograph it, and then put it back onto 8mm film, one frame at a time. We used to do it in the ad agency I worked for back in the day (not often, because it took soooo long & cost a bomb!).

    These days, even an amateur can get get a better result. PhotoShop users know what can be done quite easily with the "Clone" Tool: "stuph" can be added or deleted almost magically. As Enigma quite correctly stated, modern technology can both enhance an old photo or film brilliantly, and also completely & believably alter it. I believe the latter is what we're seeing in a lot of examples (which is why I recommended studying the earlier examples of the Zapruder footage, warts, hairs, bubbles and all! Even the earliest public examples would appear to have been "manipulated" considerably)

    We don't have the benefit of the "true originals" in any of this...
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 2nd September 2016 at 10:32.

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  15. Link to Post #148
    Avalon Member blackdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    @ Dave & blackdog with respect, - saying something is just "poppycock" or "nuts" (or calling people like Judy Woods "idiots or shills" etc), without any reasoning or justification to back it up, doesn't really add anything, does it? What's missing is the "why?"

    The problem with an opinion is that everybody has one, (and yes, we're all entitled to have 'em), but what are yours based on? Opinions, without basis, are just "baseless opinions" (and not necessarily facts)
    I believe I posted a very specific example of Fetzer quoting a fictional source. There's a famous video of Judy Wood humiliating herself in an interview with a physicist.

    I've given reasons for everything I've said. I'm open to shots from anywhere. There just has to be good evidence.

    If you want to say the driver shot JFK, then you'll have to explain why they set up this elaborate shooting range in Dealey Plaza only to stop the car in front of hundred of viewers and have the driver just turn around and shoot him. It's just not as likely as other scenarios.

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  17. Link to Post #149
    United States Avalon Retired Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by blackdog (here)
    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    @ Dave & blackdog with respect, - saying something is just "poppycock" or "nuts" (or calling people like Judy Woods "idiots or shills" etc), without any reasoning or justification to back it up, doesn't really add anything, does it? What's missing is the "why?"

    The problem with an opinion is that everybody has one, (and yes, we're all entitled to have 'em), but what are yours based on? Opinions, without basis, are just "baseless opinions" (and not necessarily facts)
    I believe I posted a very specific example of Fetzer quoting a fictional source. There's a famous video of Judy Wood humiliating herself in an interview with a physicist.

    I've given reasons for everything I've said. I'm open to shots from anywhere. There just has to be good evidence.

    If you want to say the driver shot JFK, then you'll have to explain why they set up this elaborate shooting range in Dealey Plaza only to stop the car in front of hundred of viewers and have the driver just turn around and shoot him. It's just not as likely as other scenarios.
    If information coming from a human source can only be valid if that human source is provably flawless would mean there would probably never be valid information coming from any human source ever.

    Yet also, if a human source has generated a great deal of false or largely false information and/or that human source has demonstrated behaviors that call their integrity into question, then, to the degree of either/or of these "problems" we might have good cause to lower our expectations with regards to how much we should rely on their information.

    I try and stay away from black and white and I also tend to place less validity on opinions coming from sources who demonstrate black/white thinking.

    In addition, trolls (paid or not) often use this very form of "information invalidation." In the case of paid trolls who do this, there is an agenda the troll is pushing. In the case of a non-paid troll, there may also be an agenda, but there may also simply be the expression of malcontent and the desire to handle that by playing the role of 'wrecking ball.'

    I found both KiwiElf's comments and Targets comments helpful over the last several pages of this thread. Yet I also felt an open mindedness as to the various possibilities from both (and I, personally, greatly appreciate their form of exchange and the feeling I get from them with regards to remaining open minded). This form of exchange raises the quality of the forum IMO.

    Apologies for the editorial.

    Now... Hopefully we might start looking more at 'the why(s)' he was assassinated.

    I would love to see a thread started regarding the UFO/MJ-12 angle for example. A single thread dedicated to this reason (even though this reason likely bleeds over to other reasons).
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  19. Link to Post #150
    Netherlands Avalon Member Clickalot's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    I just found this one



    Great docu
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  20. Link to Post #151
    Netherlands Avalon Member Clickalot's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    The fatal shot came from the sewers
    Just check the youtube video I posted
    Great video
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  21. Link to Post #152
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Clickalot (here)
    The fatal shot came from the sewers
    Just check the youtube video I posted
    Great video
    If you had read the first page of this thread, you'll see that a lot of the following pages are discussing this, based on that very video (posted on the first page of this thread).

    Jumping into the conversation late and not reading the 8 pages of discussion we had is going to be difficult.
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  23. Link to Post #153
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Dave, you wanted a sub-forum for JFK, you got it. At least be open to other theories that do have some reasonable evidence behind them.

    The evidence for the driver (OR drain theory) is as good as any other, (certainly better than an entire book attempting to justify an "accidental shot" by an agent, or the Warren Commission's flawed conclusions). The above evidence suggests 3 skull hits. Please, show us the evidence for your "opinions" with some reasoning to go with it - either way - instead of just "dissing" something you don't personally agree with.
    Hi KiwiElf,

    Fair enough, I respect your pov here (as well as all of your input into this thread). I just think the theory that the driver leaned backwards and shot JFK in front of hundreds (thousands??) of people in plain sight is rather strange. I've never bought into that theory. I will say this though, if that is what happened....it takes balls.

    I'm just happy we finally got a JFK sub-forum.

    Dave - Toronto

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  25. Link to Post #154
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Strange that any new postings in this sub-forum don't show up in the "newest posts" on the right side of the main page. I noticed that started right after the sub-forum was created. Perhaps it's just me.

    Dave - Toronto

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  27. Link to Post #155
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Dave, you wanted a sub-forum for JFK, you got it. At least be open to other theories that do have some reasonable evidence behind them.

    The evidence for the driver (OR drain theory) is as good as any other, (certainly better than an entire book attempting to justify an "accidental shot" by an agent, or the Warren Commission's flawed conclusions). The above evidence suggests 3 skull hits. Please, show us the evidence for your "opinions" with some reasoning to go with it - either way - instead of just "dissing" something you don't personally agree with.
    Hi KiwiElf,

    Fair enough, I respect your pov here (as well as all of your input into this thread). I just think the theory that the driver leaned backwards and shot JFK in front of hundreds (thousands??) of people in plain sight is rather strange. I've never bought into that theory. I will say this though, if that is what happened....it takes balls.
    I don't think so either.. except for this: at least 1 medical expert thinks there were multiple skull shots, IF the driver did stop the car (sure seems like that is the case) he was definitely in on it and definitely colluding to ensure a head-shot occurred. With the panic of the situation and around 4-5 (maybe 6) shots missing his head, I don't see it as completely implausible that the driver shot him, the storm drain shooter shot him & the gnoll shooter shot him at nearly the same time (or slightly (fractions of the same second) different times, the video has been obviously edited.)

    Either way it's a fun speculation problem.... by the time the limo reached the X we KNOW there were several shots taken; if panic by the conspirators had not ensued by then... when would it? Multiple shots might even explain the excessive damage seen in this head shot that is not standard.
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  29. Link to Post #156
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Oh, I quite agree that the limo driver must have been in on it as he certainly did slow down in order for the shooters to have JFK in their sights. I just don't think the driver would have the nerve or guts to shoot in front of all those people. Too much chance of getting caught. My 2 cents (Canadian).

    Dave - Toronto

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  31. Link to Post #157
    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Oh, I quite agree that the limo driver must have been in on it as he certainly did slow down in order for the shooters to have JFK in their sights. I just don't think the driver would have the nerve or guts to shoot in front of all those people. Too much chance of getting caught. My 2 cents (Canadian).

    Dave - Toronto
    How much do you think any of these individuals cared about being caught.. they had at LEAST 6 shooters in place.. witnesses said it sounded like fireworks going off... IMO they had zero ****s to give.. this **** was going to happen and they'd figure out the rest afterwards (like they've done so many times before).
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Oh, I quite agree that the limo driver must have been in on it as he certainly did slow down in order for the shooters to have JFK in their sights. I just don't think the driver would have the nerve or guts to shoot in front of all those people. Too much chance of getting caught. My 2 cents (Canadian).

    Dave - Toronto
    How much do you think any of these individuals cared about being caught.. they had at LEAST 6 shooters in place.. witnesses said it sounded like fireworks going off... IMO they had zero ****s to give.. this **** was going to happen and they'd figure out the rest afterwards (like they've done so many times before).
    Could be. That was certainly the case with Ruby.

    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Oh, I quite agree that the limo driver must have been in on it as he certainly did slow down in order for the shooters to have JFK in their sights. I just don't think the driver would have the nerve or guts to shoot in front of all those people. Too much chance of getting caught. My 2 cents (Canadian).

    Dave - Toronto
    How much do you think any of these individuals cared about being caught.. they had at LEAST 6 shooters in place.. witnesses said it sounded like fireworks going off... IMO they had zero ****s to give.. this **** was going to happen and they'd figure out the rest afterwards (like they've done so many times before).
    They must have been really desperate to get rid of him. He must have been really close to exposing some real big stuff. That's just my opinion considering how reckless this was.

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    United States Avalon Retired Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: the Assassination of John Kennedy

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Oh, I quite agree that the limo driver must have been in on it as he certainly did slow down in order for the shooters to have JFK in their sights. I just don't think the driver would have the nerve or guts to shoot in front of all those people. Too much chance of getting caught. My 2 cents (Canadian).

    Dave - Toronto
    There were not very many people in that immediate area when the assassination occurred... estimates are around 600 witnesses. How many of those may have been close enough to see if Greer appeared to have a gun and made motions that he may have used it on Kennedy? Also, of those near enough to have seen if Greer did, when the shots rang out... what do you think you would be doing? I would be ducking and/or running... and if I thought to look at anything, I would be looking at where those first shots came from. And then we have the phenomena that can happen when someone sees something traumatic and just can't register what they saw. Also note, of the 600, only 200 were interviewed. Maybe some of the non 200 saw something and realized they better just keep their mouth shut, especially after Oswald was named (only hours after the assassination).

    To me, it is entirely believable (Greer in on it). Also, when we watch some of these videos in real motion and also slow motion, Greer's actions seem pretty odd. The way he turned toward Kennedy and then BLAM and then he turns right back forward and hits the gas.... perhaps he really could have been in on it.

    And just think of the brilliance of the idea to have all sorts of different shooters where perhaps most may not have known about the others or if they did, not all of the others. If ever there was an assassination that could NOT fail, this was it.

    If I were the folks in charge of the coup (I call it that because that is what it technically is if elements of a government take the power away from the 'leader guy' (leader in the eyes of the general public - the asleeple))... I would have made certain that Kennedy would have no chance to survive no matter what.

    Greer was the best bet to make sure that happened.
    Last edited by Sammy; 3rd September 2016 at 03:59.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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