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Thread: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

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    Default Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    I held off for a few days to see if anyone else would pick-up on this, evidently not. This is an issue that has troubled me for sometime, troubled me enough to take some time-out, leave my home, visit some countries and places and meet some very interesting people. I found great comfort that there is a ground-swell taking place of like-minded individuals, individuals that have had enough of being lied to, of being deceived and being presented with ever more fanciful stories that are served-up without so much as basic due diligence.

    I shall start this off with an introduction........C W Chanter. You can watch his channel here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE...fi0Vqrg/videos

    I do not agree with C W Chanter's stance on a lot of what he has to say, but then again, if I did that would be pretty weird.

    What I do like about C W is that he will not take things that are reported in Alt Media at face value without checking facts and proper due diligence. I assume his work as an attorney-at-law stands him in good steed in this respect.

    My second introduction is this gentleman, Mr. Phil Stone. He runs this blog, readable here:
    http://www.philosophers-stone.co.uk

    Again, a man that likes to dig a little deeper, who likes to verify and fact-check and who has posted some very disturbing findings regarding.............. Zen Gardner.


    Zen Gardner has been exposed as a long-time leader in the child-abusing cult, The Children of God, formerly The Family. The details are disgusting, as one would expect. You can read about the how's and why's here:

    http://www.philosophers-stone.co.uk/?p=13437

    And watch this expose by C W Chanter here:




    In the expose above, another 'whistleblower' exposed is Bill Wood, real name William Brockbrader and a convicted paedophile and fantasist (http://wtkr.com/2012/05/31/newschann...hic-abilities/), a Project Camelot favourite. I must state here that in the expose, C W Chanter links to David Icke, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, Mel C and the CCN. I personally find that a bit harsh as in these internet days, guilty-by-association can be only a click away, so on that point I do not totally agree with C W Chanter.......... BUT, it does raise a very important question about due diligence.

    If you are presenting to the World a whistleblower with an outrageously fantastical story, stories so mind-blowing that they have the potential to shift peoples paradigms, then does the responsibility to check, check and check again not fall into your lap? It is an interesting question.

    I have it on very good authority that this is only the start, that the spotlight of truth is about to shine bright upon some of those that have sought to elevate themselves as Truth Warriors. I also believe that a couple of Project Camelot's big hitter whistleblower's have been trying to hide damaging information regarding their past involvement with some sick s**t........... And also a man that has appeared on more than a few threads here recently. Watch this space, as they say.

    This has the potential to be the single most damaging episode in the Alt Media scene. When we look back to see who to blame for the discrediting of Alt Media, we need only to look in the mirror. In our thirst for ever more fanciful information, nobody stopped to check the source of the water. I am of the opinion that this is what is needed, it is an essential cleansing of the polluted information sphere, but this phase will be more damaging in the interim than any Government psy-op.

    This is about to get very messy and there will be some ugly, and disturbing, fallout.



    R
    Last edited by Citizen No2; 19th August 2016 at 14:52.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    .
    CW is a newbie in the alternative media, is very egotistical, and is (or is trying to be) a kind of sensational, attention-grabbing internet shock jock, for lack of a better word. He's teamed up, at least in part, with a small group of Camelot and Avalon critics (including some people who were unsubscribed from the forum for pretty good reasons), and has many of his facts quite wrong -- which he's never bothered to check with key sources, one of whom might be myself. He has my e-mail address, and about 9 months ago I invited him to ask me any questions he liked. He never once has. That says something.

    Re Zen Gardner, which is a separate issue, I'm not familiar with the facts there, so I really shouldn't make any comment at this stage. I've been aware of the allegations for about a week or so. I spoke with him once in a Skype group call organized by someone else which I was invited to, but never knew him, and know very little about him.

    It's a shame -- another major understatement -- when the reputation of a group, or a movement, gets tarnished by just a few people. When that happens, the vultures and parasites really do love it.
    Last edited by Paul; 19th August 2016 at 21:48. Reason: Remove paragraph about CW and (anonymously) Shannon ... poor match to where Shannon is at right now with CW

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Regarding Zen Gardner (aka Don Ferguson)

    On 11 August we received an email from Steve Seymour regarding background on Zen Gardner.

    Here is a copy of the content of the email:

    I've sorry to have to break the news about Zen Gardner...

    I tried to send this out yesterday when the news first broke, but the email failed.

    http://www.philosophers-stone.co.uk/?p=13298

    and

    http://www.philosophers-stone.co.uk/?p=13329

    Regards
    Steve
    Philosophers-Stone


    The information was disturbing, because we had known Zen Gardner as a friend for about 12 months. We had known him as a person who told his truth and we had no idea about his background or we would not have communicated with him.

    In light of the information on Steve’s website and also others (which you can source from Steve’s site) we have distanced ourselves from Zen and have removed from the internet the interview that we did we him.

    We are not in judgement here – all these situations give us reason to exercise discernment. Our previous opinion of Zen was based on the faith that he was presenting himself truthfully and it seemed to us that he was a person of repute who had gained respect in the alternative media community.

    We are hoping that Zen will be able to face the spectres of his past and be able to rebuild his psyche in a more constructive manner.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    stop this video abruptly at at 5:07!!!- CW gives the satanic hand sign-

    the plot thickens...

    Larry
    Last edited by Cardillac; 19th August 2016 at 16:32.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    There are obsessive knockers out there the Gorilla is obsessed with David
    Icke , but has not seemed to realise David has severe arthritis in his right hand...

    He also busted Bill and Kerry for giving David a masonic handshake...

    Gorrilla you are a masonic moron !!!...LOL





    David Icke Masonic Hand shake at Peoples voice Studio London - by Gorilla199



    ================================================== ==

    C W 'RANTER' by the sound of it......I cannot feel any genuine truth seeking here.

    Zen Gardner Expose Going Down Tonight!

    He lists off some names as the topic of conversation including Zen Gardner , the
    children of god, pedophilia , Bill Wood, Kerry Cassidy, David Wilcox , Bill Ryan
    and others. All valid topics of conversation and its up to you if you want to listen
    to his type of debate. Its up to the individual.

    I listened to most of the interview and it was a ' harsh' listen , truths , half truths
    speculation a mish mash of topics that need proper debate . His summing up of
    David Icke and Jimmy Saville was laughable imo but there you go.



    ================================================== ==
    ================================================== ==

    Context should be considered.....




    by Zen Gardner 8/8/16



    I’ve deliberately avoided this subject as it drags up so much controversy and a lot
    of traumatic memories besides the deep shame involved, but it’s time to lay it on
    the table. It certainly aligns with all that is happening vibrationally as well as huge
    events and changes in my own personal life as this shift turns up the heat, so here comes.

    I’ve often referred to several major life changes that I’ve been through but have
    been deliberately vague about a large part of my life, some even claiming I’m some
    kind of agent of some sort because of the seeming obscurity about my background.
    I’ve referenced my previous alternative Christian beliefs but never got into any
    detail of what that entailed. I write forcefully about religion and belief systems and
    hierarchy because I was subjected to a severe form of them for almost 27 years.

    Following my original wake up and getting deep into spirituality and looking for how
    best I could change the world, at 22 years old I joined the Children of God, later to
    be known as The Family. Many of my generation tried various alternative lifestyles,
    new religious movements and the like, most of which turned out to be cults in one
    form or another, as was my case. I didn’t fully escape until 1999 after many years
    of trying to change the group from the inside because I felt I had to give it my best
    shot before leaving, having invested so much of my heart and life in it and what I
    thought it stood for during those many years and wanting to leave with a clear
    conscience.

    read more

    http://www.zengardner.com/my-missing-years/
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th August 2016 at 18:20.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    To me is very funny when people talks about other´s past.... we all have past lives, i wonder what horrible stuff we all have done at some point. Dont get me wrong, i am not trying to deffend or justify whatever anyone has done, including me. All this thing about evolution (which is no more than realizing what we allready are) is about bringing ego to light and all the shadow people will have, and have, the oportunity to heal. In that sense, no one will be left behind. Come to light or go to the void.
    Now, Zen Gardner has enlightened and helped many of us with his writtings. This man had very good idea where are we and where are we heading. So if he knew the shadow side, all of us who benefited from his writtings are benefiting from his experience. It is my believe people can change. I love to hear what Zen has to say btw.
    What has helped me to discern is the pattern of "divide and conquer", and i see this pattern here, i see an effort to divide. The past comes up to heal, noone excluded.
    This is been like a cold shower though. They have done a good job.
    To finnish i give you one question ¿how many people were involved or working for the shadows and came up blowing the whisthle and we thanked them for?
    MUch love and, more tan ever UNITY
    honoring White Feather: SHIFT HAPPENED

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    That is a fair point betoobig, but not a valid one I am afraid.

    IF you are going to set yourself up as a some sort of Truth Warrior, as a platform with influence, then you MUST address these issues right at the start of your journey. Bolting shut the stable door after the horse has run is too late.

    Yes we all have a past, yes we have the right to change, to see and act upon our past mistakes and indiscretions. I spent 15 years of my life addicted to drugs, I served time in prison, I was lost for a long, long time. So I absolutely understand this point for I am of the same opinion, BUT, we are talking about paedophilia....... child abuse.

    You takes your pick and makes your choices.


    R

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Such methods and attempts are all about casting doubt into the minds of people.

    I just did a quick search, and found more than one article trying pretty hard to smear David Icke into the ground regarding this Zen matter.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    I give the masonic hand shake around twice or three times a month... so far I haven't grown a tail nor eaten babies... (Correlation does not imply causation)

    Lots of logical fallacies around, (aka thinking traps for the lazy) keep your thinking caps on tight!

    I think the whole "alt personality" thing is just another way for us to fall in line with the rest of the economy.. pump one person up so they get to the corruption point, tip them over then co-op them... (or ignore them and co-op the movement)..
    Last edited by TargeT; 19th August 2016 at 17:57.
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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    From zengardner.com/my-missing-years
    I’ve deliberately avoided this subject as it drags up so much controversy and a lot of traumatic memories besides the deep shame involved, but it’s time to lay it on the table. [...]

    I was in a position of leadership in my later stages and it was very hard to witness and endure what I saw and experienced, as well as watching my own children suffer who are still in recovery decades later. Leadership was just executing policy from the top and the latest doctrines – or else. It was all oh so polite most of the time, but the punishments for rebellion and criticizing the highest inner sanctum were severe, and you had to learn to avoid those if you could. [...]

    But why didn’t I grab my family and jump on the first bus out of there and blow the whistle on the whole sham? Another carefully planned obstacle was the fact that my children were scattered in other locations and of course no one had any money so that was another control tool and I was in the middle of Brazil. Still, it’s no excuse, just explaining the circumstances, as the system was tightly controlled. [...]

    I’m not proud about any of this but it’s been my life and I have to deal with it, and am determined to spend my life helping to heal others while exposing horrific dynamics like these. [...]
    Last edited by Atlas; 19th August 2016 at 18:02.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    David Icke has been smeared for years, ever since the infamous Wogan appearance.

    As far as I know, David does not have paedophilic tendencies. To date, there has been no evidence of this. Paedophilia is not like drug addiction, there is no treatment nor counselling. I am attracted to women, there is no amount of therapy or drugs that would make become sexually attracted to men. None. Your sexuality is part of your make-up.

    Are there some here who are of the opinion that the message is more important than the messenger? Zen's version, almost portraying himself as a victim is very telling:
    Quote I didn’t fully escape until 1999 after many years
    of trying to change the group from the inside because I felt I had to give it my best
    shot before leaving, having invested so much of my heart and life in it and what I
    thought it stood for during those many years and wanting to leave with a clear
    conscience.
    Some should dig a little deeper and see what his own son has to say. Shocking.

    How many here with children would invite Zen Gardner into their homes for a talk on enlightenment, now this information is out of the bag?


    I thought not.

    Child abuse is THE WORST possible abuse to inflict on someone. If the victim is unlucky enough to survive childhood, there is a very good chance that a life of drug/drink/self abuse is what is in store, and in some cases these victims then go on to abuse children themselves...... That is why it is so devastating, you are sentencing someone, a child, to a life of sh*t. All for their own sexual perversions, and we haven't broached the subject of Satanic ritual yet.

    As I said, you takes your pick and makes your choices.


    R

    I just want to add that I was not sexually abused as a child as far as I am aware of, not in the traditional understanding of sexual abuse.
    Last edited by Citizen No2; 19th August 2016 at 18:22.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    FFS!

    The guy was 27 years in, he was one of the leaders, responsible for the media image of The Children of God.

    Are we to believe that he had no idea what was going on with the children within this organisation? Why was one of their priorities to split the children up from their parents? One does not have to think too hard as to why.

    And it is also very telling that only a few short days ago Zen was threatening a female who was exposing the truth to his involvement. See Callista's links to Steve's site for further details.

    Bill Ryan wrote:

    Quote It's a shame -- another major understatement -- when the reputation of a group, or a movement, gets tarnished by just a few people. When that happens, the vultures and parasites really do love it.
    There are also some of us that are sick to death with the lies and hidden agendas. People and their stories are promoted, on the whole, without proper due diligence........ with this modus operandi what did you expect? This needs to be talked about and I can already sea some balking at this and turning their backs. Why do you think there are vultures and parasites Bill?


    TargeT wrote:

    Quote pump one person up so they get to the corruption point, tip them over then co-op them... (or ignore them and co-op the movement)..
    Get to the corruption point? Really?? What about when they were corrupt to begin with, but nobody bothered to check.
    Last edited by Citizen No2; 19th August 2016 at 18:37.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Zen has confessed and is full of guilt and remorse. Is it to late ? and the personal
    damage to his own children he will have to live with. Should we stone him ? or now
    look at his views from another angle ? Time will tell .

    As for David most of his story has been in the public domain warts and all. If any
    thinks he's a shill or dis info agent fine , that's your journey.I find he has connected
    many dots for me and is still doing sterling work in the alternate field.He has been
    asked many times why if what he's says has any validity why is he still alive, The
    vids are from around 2010. I think the ridicule factor was enough for the first
    decade or more and now he is quite high profile.

    Why Can't David Icke Be 'Taken Out'?



    ==================================================



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    Why Hasn't David Icke Been 'Taken Out'?
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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Not an easy subject to deal with but which is one which needs to be confronted, especially when one considers "Truth & Reconciliation" about what to do with the "elite" after the pitchforks and torches are laid down...

    No doubt that many factions are going to turn this current buzzing to benefit their respective agenda(s) à la Rahm Emanuel.

    Here is the opinion of an anonymous Henry Makow reader:

    Zen Gardner - Forgiven Too Soon?

    August 18, 2016


    (ZG left cult in 1999 at 49, so he must be about 65)


    A prominent member of the conspiracy community, Zen Gardner, aka Don Ferguson recently "came out" as a former member of a notorious satanic sex cult.

    My reader who wishes to remain anonymous feels he's getting off too easily. "Forgiveness is wonderful, but when it's premature it's enabling," she writes.

    I agree that it's incredible that for 27 years he didn't know exactly what was going on.

    It's incredible that no one outed him.
    (Disclosure- ZG virtually stepped into my [H. Makow] spot on Rense.com after my break with JR. I don't hold that against him. I had promoted him to JR but Jeff was turned off by the name "Zen." I don't follow his work now. I am posting this because it is discussion and newsworthy. ZG's confession is courageous but was it foolhardy? Is it complete? ZG is repentant. Should his readers forgive and forget?)
    by Anonymous
    (henrymakow.com)

    This article refers to recent revelations by Zen Gardner and the consequent sweeping it under the rug by many prominent alternative news sites. Some also made excuses for him. For those unfamiliar, Zen Gardner's website is a kind of a combination of conspiracy investigation and new-age hopefulness.



    Mr. Gardner, who has many followers, recently revealed that he spent a good portion of his adult life in the cult known as "The Children of God" which later became known as "The Family." It is a cult of pedophilia.

    Zen's confession is here:
    The last stages of the official group were the very worst, where child abuse was taking place as a result of very deviant sexual "revelations" from the "Prophet". So many were appalled and started planning their escapes, but many were caught in the snare and many innocent children, teens and young adults were abused. I was aware there were incidents and went after abuses in the area I was supervising. But I had no idea of the extent it was going on in top leadership and specialized "training centers", the horrific details of which I later learned about like many others have in the documentaries and books covering detailed incidences which are available on line. Brace yourself, there's some very nasty, tragic stuff.


    (the leader David Berg.)


    But why didn't I grab my family and jump on the first bus out of there and blow the whistle on the whole sham? Another carefully planned obstacle was the fact that my children were scattered in other locations and of course no one had any money so that was another control tool and I was in the middle of Brazil. Still, it's no excuse, just explaining the circumstances, as the system was tightly controlled.

    I have lived with deep remorse and shame for what I participated in and my gutless lack of conscious response. That many of these child abusers still run free is a travesty. I contributed to cult exposure efforts while inside and following my exit but I certainly could have done a lot more. Fact was, I wanted distance from it, as fast and as far and as soon as possible. I needed recovery as did my family and loved ones.

    To allay anyone's questions the answer is no, I never participated in any form of child abuse, except being part of a system that was tolerating and even currying it at inner levels. That I own up to, as well as the fact that the training and hierarchical system had become regimented and extremely abusive as well.
    Unfortunately ZG is sugar coating his confession. A friend of his did some research and discovered "The Family" is a satanic sex cult. She was horrified at the free sex, pedophilia and incest that takes place. The grisly evidence is presented here.

    WHY THE ACCEPTANCE?
    But I have been asking myself, who's protecting Zen Gardner, and who's not?
    Protectionism is not just about politics and countries; it's also corporate and stinks of cronyism. Where is Jeff Rense, where ZG's column appears? David Icke has written only that his connection to ZG was incidental. Shame on all who do the shielding!!

    The main point is to expose Zen, not out of hatred, but for the children, and for Zen, as well. To not be enablers to any of this; let's not lose focus of that. Children everywhere are falling victim to this devastating dominance/torture. There is not enough remorse or compassion in Zen's response to all this. By remorse I refer to him involving himself in a pedo cult and helping to advance its agenda.

    You can't be almost 50 years old (which he was at the time of his departure from the cult) and have invested most of your adult life (he joined at age 22) in an enterprise and not understand its M.O., especially if you rose to the top to become a leader within it. What exactly his contribution was to this cruel debauchery is not clear, but if he really wants to make good on his reputation (and his soul), he should dedicate the rest of his life to preventing pedophilia and exposing all who perpetrate it, especially cults that have kids trapped. He said he'd do something like that, but he's going to have to get a lot more humble and honest.

    Because many still look up to him, I am hard-pressed to not hate, yet I work on that. But this abuse must be more fully addressed and somehow arrested. As far as trust goes, sorry Zen, maybe next life-time. Trust is hard-won. And to all those who would excuse him or cover for him or are stuck in some kind or hero-worship of him... please, just ask yourself, are you really helping him or humanity by not demanding something more from him, something that really shows he understands what he was part of?

    Two links explaining more:
    http://sorendreier.com/the-zen-gardner-deception/
    http://yournewswire.com/david-ickes-...edophile-cult/

    ZG'S DEFENCE
    Below are some quotes I extracted from Zen Gardner's reply. Notice how he beats up and puts down those who require truth and accountability (us). And more than enough kettle/black. Can't believe how so many look up to him and am really upset with those who are covering for him by not covering this issue or by making excuses for him. Forgiveness is wonderful, but when it's premature it's enabling.

    Here are the quotes, bold highlights mine:
    "...I have no need to defend myself."..."It really doesn't matter."

    "They have their issues to work out just as I do."

    "We seem to need someone to go after to release our rage and indignation, as well as fear. Witch hunting and the inquisition are examples of this..."

    "I won't bend or back down, there's no reason to. Some want more details and more grovelling, an attitude is insatiable and extremely misdirected and coming from an unhealthy place as far as I'm concerned..."

    "It's not easy finding out who you're friends really are and having people you intimately trusted turn on you...
    ...it's not me that put myself on a pedestal nor ever said I was perfect; it's people's projections."

    "...I give it my best shot and don't sit on the sidelines criticizing those who act."

    "And for those with a morbid fascination for details and think I owe it to them, you need to do some serious self examination. ... But I don't owe you anything, you're again coming from a very perverse and misguided way of thinking."

    "And if this offends anyone, tough." "I'm a very free man, free of guilt and shame, and owe no apologies."
    FINAL THOUGHTS
    It would be so interesting if any who knew Zen during his involvement in Children of God would somehow surface and tell more of what his involvement consisted of. Also, many of the commenters on the "Replies" article and "The Missing Years" article are slamming those who are "judging" him. It always gets to me when someone plays the "Do not judge" card. When Christ modelled that it did not mean we're not supposed to have opinions about right or wrong. I think he just meant don't judge a person's eternal soul or destiny. He certainly was able to speak up about what he disapproved of. Turn those tables, baby!

    Thank goodness some are speaking up. Here are some comments I liked:

    >> Zen, I cannot believe that you were a victim here for all those years. I wrote about the COG years ago and never lost my feeling of utter disgust at their practices. You, Zen, are a strong intelligent and creative insightful man and, as one who does understand the cult mindset, I say where there is a will there is a way to escape. If I had had even a whiff of such things going on around my family, I would have gotten the hell outta Dodge. You had options but chose not to take them or do what was right at the time. Your mind was not that weak and gullible; I do not believe that for a second. I question the level of scruples of your readers who are so understanding as if your writings of matters metaphysical undoes the damages done to those you interacted with (or did not help) in those euphemistically titled "lost years". Would they be so understanding were their family members effected? I can only hope you are on a healing path, Zen. But for now, I am disillusioned to the core with this. I know my weaknesses full well and they have NEVER included endangering the innocence of children.



    >> ...the entire tenet of the COG and the pivotal foundation of this vile cult was built on physical or sexual abuse of one kind or another. These abuses included paedophilia and incest. All this wrapped up in a package disguised as religion. This was hard core abuse , not just" Flirty Fishing" which in itself is disgusting. As Zen was a leader in this cult and a press officer whose job was to represent the COG in as favorable a way as possible, to imply that he was unaware of this abuse is beyond belief. ... I fail to understand how any parent could place their children in any kind of danger and especially something involving the whole gamut of abuse. Even the faintest possibility of harm to a child is every parents greatest nightmare. The urge to nurture and protect our children is apart from bearing those children our greatest biological imperative , it should over ride any thing , including any kind of disgusting perverted ideology . If I thought that anyone even had the thought of abusing my children in any way , I would do them huge physical harm and gladly go to prison for it.

    >> Oh I just couldn't leave. Apparently he knew when to leave the country and blame it on how ****ed up America is. He should take another look in the mirror before he starts putting the blame elsewhere. I'm not perfect. But I would never molest a child..Nor would I standby and let it happen if I knew it was going on.

    >> To hear that someone they felt was trustworthy reveal he was a leader in a cult that was notorious for its depraved sexual practices is not only devastating but is perceived as a terrible betrayal , and to see the comments on this thread taking the stance of apologist for something they know is unforgivable must be a further insult to their suffering. This really isn't about the agendas of an internet community but is about real life and how terrible deeds done against real people have an effect that can corrode and destroy their very souls...

    ------

    Love can heal, but it needs the truth to come first.

    I think we'll see more surface over the next few days. I'm asking myself what I expect to get out of this. Well, aside from the hope that exposing more about pedophilia will somehow help arrest it there's the hope that Zen will own this more, show some real remorse, and take a job in a soup kitchen for two years. Do something very humbling and get off a self-created pedestal built on a lie or omission. And yeah, as ever, I need to do better in my own life with my own procrastinations.
    Anyway, tip of the hat to all those who are willing to shine a light on this debacle. For the children, for all of us.


    Latest from anonymous- Just came across some of the front covers of the brochures put out by "The Family" over the years. Naturally every member undoubtedly saw them. How could Zen's eyes have beheld these and his spiritual self not rebel? Here's a peek

    -------
    Related - An Open Letter to Zen Gardner

    First Comment by Dan "I can say that forgiveness must be preceded by genuine repentance. We cannot know if someone's repented, only they and God know."

    - See more at: http://henrymakow.com/2016/08/%20Zen....qzZhoOur.dpuf
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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Cidersomerset,

    I'm sorry to be so blunt, but are you on the same page, re this:
    Quote Zen has confessed and is full of guilt and remorse.
    I'm sorry buddy, and this is only my opinion, but you are leaving yourself wide-open pal if that is your stance. I hope you were being sarcastic.


    R

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Quote Cidersomerset,

    I'm sorry to be so blunt, but are you on the same page, re this:


    Quote Zen has confessed and is full of guilt and remorse.
    I'm sorry buddy, and this is only my opinion, but you are leaving yourself wide-open pal if that is your stance. I hope you were being sarcastic.
    R
    That's how I read it , it could be BS but as I said time will tell ,I'll have another look.

    Quote Zen has confessed and is full of guilt and remorse. Is it to late ? and the
    personal damage to his own children he will have to live with. Should we stone
    him ? or now look at his views from another angle ? Time will tell .
    So you do not feel he is genuinely remorse full and more will come out.

    Possibly and he will have to face the consequences.

    Most cults and religions attract fanatics and followers that end up exploited
    and abused . Its a difficult subject especially when children are involved.

    Man Alive 1971 Children of God/Jesus People Documentary

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy46wj4XE94
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 19th August 2016 at 19:21.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Forgiveness is the only way to Unity, the elite knows it.
    For-give, what are you going to do? Judge? punish? Kill? not our misión.
    Only love can help right now. IMO
    Much love
    honoring White Feather: SHIFT HAPPENED

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    C.W Chanter's ego is through the roof here. Still don't know what to make of him.
    I came across a video of his a few weeks ago, never went back.

    Last edited by shadowstalker; 30th August 2016 at 16:37.
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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...] our rage and indignation
    You don't need Zen Gardner to be outraged or shocked by this kind of stuff.

    End Of The World Cult:

    Quote Posted by Avalon Senior Member kungfugrip
    Michael Travesser, a.k.a. Wayne Bent, has stated that he is the Messiah. He and his 56 devoted followers live in Strong City, NM. He believes that the Book of Daniel has predicted that some important events would occur on OCT-31 and DEC-15. This has been widely reported as a prediction that the world was to end with some sort of apocalyptic event at midnight on one of those dates. It didn't happen. (source)
    Quote Posted by Vitalux (here)
    Wayne Bent (b. 1941), also known as Michael Travesser of the Lord Our Righteousness Church, also known as the "Strong City Cult", convicted December 15, 2008 of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.

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    Default Re: Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

    Quote It would be so interesting if any who knew Zen during his involvement in Children of God would somehow surface and tell more of what his involvement consisted of
    The question to all those 'interested' is who are you really to be so interested and in whom ?
    In Zen ? Laughing loud . I mean , if you're interesting in Zen .. and call yourself Zen go to Zen and do some gardening .

    Other than that , is 'Don Fergusson' somehow especially significant and important person more than the thousands of people involved in the 'Children of God' ?

    Aren't the other thousands of people also responsible ?

    Aren't the millions of people currently and previously involved in all sorts of fanaticism also responsible ?

    Is saying 'sorry' simply enough ?

    NO, IT ISN"T. Go and explain your MIND and what it went through , step by step and why you were so naive to be so involved .
    What happened in your life and your brain . Allow the 'conscious self' to surface , bring out the 'watcher', the 'observer' of your intents ,

    27 years is long journey . There had to be moments of love , moments of doubt , moments of anger ,
    there's nothing in any of these sects happening that is not explainable by psychology and physiology and some pathology too but we're commonly rather evading the research , missing the links and explanations .

    Be the teacher you were meant to be . There's no 'old person' and 'new, another person' , mostly , in life even if it seems so . And if so then how and why .


    Why do I ask is because there's hive mentality out there masquerading itself under millions of guises that is ultimately responsible for every major humanitarian disaster and tragedy on this planet , not ever any one person is responsible .
    It's the 'collective' , the human hive . The psychology of the crowd that's so profoundly different from psychology of an individual .
    We all need each other but that does not mean hiding your self behind collective and expressing yourself in 'plural' as 'we' really helps .

    How many companies are already exploiting , misusing this human weakness . How many religions , groups , systems , countries ..

    Aren't 'we' a society of sovereign , unique and free individuals instead in every aspect of our existence and wisdom .


    Aren't you . No, you aren't . Yes you are . Your choice .

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