Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

[boutreality]

-Perhaps that was the conversation CW "had to have" before he addresses some info re: who he says is responsible for Simon Parkes' introduction to the Alt Media scene?
Or maybe he's blowing smoke trying to goad PA/Bill/Kerry?
Anyway, it would appear this ball is in his court.

Decent idea on the sticky thread CNo2.

[Cidersomerset]

Quote Posted by Flash (here)
[...] Marilyn Monroe [...]
Marilyn Monroe (Can't take my eyes off you)
www.youtube.com/watch? v=wdBi9JWlkrY [dead link]

Not sure if this is what you are after the above link led me to
an interesting political link...https://www.youtube.com/

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uOI_cOHBu78

[Cidersomerset]

There are frequent squabbling and attacks in the alt media some set up by
government trolls . But not all , Mike and Ritchie talk about it in his interview......

Michael Rivero On Hillary's Emails & The US Medias Campaign To Get Her Elected.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=s0cXg7qgDpQ

=============================================

This dispute has been going on for a while......


Meet 'David Hardy' - or is it 'Baxter Dmitry' ... Sean Adl-Tabatabai's clickbait
specialist at Yournewswire who writes libellous attacks on David Icke

By David on 23 August 2016 GMT


Does Adl-Tabatabai’s friend David Hardy know that his picture is being used as
‘Baxter Dmitry’? There is no confirmation either way yet because he has not
replied to questions sent to his Facebook page, but what is for sure is that
‘Baxter Dmitry’ has had two completely different people posted as his image.
Can we have an explanation Mr Adl-Tabatabai?

Sean Adl-Tabatabai of Yournewswire.com blocks Richie Allen on Twitter immediately
after he was sent this question

By David on 23 August 2016 GMT


So who IS ‘Baxter Dmitry’, Adl-Tabatabai’s clickbait specialist at Yournewswire who
writes malicious and libellous attacks on David Icke?



Why are Sean Adl-Tabatabai and Yournewswire.com so untouchable on Facebook?

Radio show host Richie Allen is banned from Facebook for 30 days for re-posting
my mild response to an outrageously libellous attack by the website run by the
bitter and resentful former webmaster at Davidicke.com, Sean Adl-Tabatabai, and
now someone posting the simple fact that Richie is banned and cannot respond to
messages has their post deleted.

This is the second time that Richie has been banned for 30 days for re-posting my
response to an outrageous and ludicrous article at Sean Adl-Tabatabai’s clickbait
site, Yournewswire.com.

WTF is going on here?


https://www.davidicke.com/headlines

[boutreality]

(At the time of writing this Cindersomerset's post was not up yet- thank you for returning us to the spirit of this thread; apparently we were both moved to get this back on topic at about the same time.)

Yeah, the eye thing, got it. I admit I stared at my eyes a few of the last several times I've seen myself in the mirror, and caught myself today and laughed- no white above or below the iris.

So... as far as back to topic, what about the moneys donated to Wilcock and those that feel burned for lack of promised results? I don't know what those results were, but I have read a few PA member posts saying they felt scammed by him.

And how about Frank Joseph? A couple of months back a thread was started here about a new book by him regarding "Our" Dolphin Ancestors. I remembered the name from somewhere, and I didn't hear it mentioned in a good light, so I looked him up.

Sure enough, he was a Nazi "leader" (post WW2 Nazi group- I guess that's what neo-nazi means.) He had been convicted of sexually assaulting a boy. Check the thread here:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...phin-Ancestors

-Or here's a snippet of what I found and posted there:

From wwww.jasoncolavito.com "Fringe History's Frank Joseph Problem":

"Joseph, formerly known as Frank Collin, became infamous in the 1970s as the leader of an American Nazi Party, in which capacity he was involved in the Supreme Court case National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie 432 U.S. 43 (1977), which established the right of Nazis to march and display swastika emblems. After his Jewish heritage came to light (his father was a Holocaust survivor), Collin at first denied the claims but remained head of the National Socialist Party of America until his arrest on child sex charges. Nevertheless, Joseph continues to promote a view of history that places a white master race in a position of prehistoric global domination and power, albeit now with Jews included among the white peoples who once ruled the Americas. Because this ancient white master race reflects a central tenet of his early Nazi beliefs, it would appear to be extremely relevant to understanding his ideas and point of view, at least as much as David Duke’s former position as a Grand Wizard in the Ku Klux Klan remains forever affixed to any discussion of his views on race and Jews."

The contention that hasn't been widely named, that there is a complacency afoot when these things comes to light, is evident.

A few replies were "maybe that's a different Frank Joseph"
Replies were, "Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater." I was accused of impugning people's beliefs. I admit I did respond in a flippant tone; we got through it.
I'm not accusing anyone on that thread of a thing. I'm not calling for a witch for Frank Joseph's head.

If you believe Dolphins to be sacred, I'm happy for you- that you have source of divine inspiration that is so tangible is great! -That's not the issue.

How about we have someone write a book on that topic isn't an ex-Nazi leader convicted of sexual abuse?

PA members and frequent visitors are certainly a section of these people's income generating demographic. How about we boycott their works after things like this (proven allegations) come to light?

I'm not saying they "Have no right to make living."
However if we are being honest with ourselves, if we, as a "community," seek to help others, how is that being done if disingenuous characters taking advantage of a section of this subculture that need/want to be told how things work have this community's support?
Let those types of people make a living elsewhere.

The Alt Community should not be known as a haven for con men and frauds that, once they have positioned themselves/been positioned as Alt Media Fixtures/Leaders, are given a free pass on the measure of their character.

[Daozen]

I'm not saying they "Have no right to make living."
However if we are being honest with ourselves, if we, as a "community," seek to help others, how is that being done if disingenuous characters taking advantage of a section of this subculture that need/want to be told how things work are supported by this community?
Let-those types of people make a living elsewhere.

The Alt Community should not be known as a haven for con men and frauds that, once they have positioned themselves/been positioned Alt Media Fixtures/Leaders, are given a free pass on the measure of their character.

"They" saw that an awakening was coming, and they positioned themselves as our leaders. Half of them predict doom every month, the other half spew useless pseudo-spiritual platitudes. Being caught in the middle is probably what's known as 'cognitive dissonance.' The purging process is well underway, I say let it continue. They are all attacking each other right now, that'll continue for a year or so, maybe longer.

Ultimately, people made a free will choice to click on their videos and go to their events. We all fell for some of their lies at some point. While I agree 100% that predators should be outed... if you believe their stories, you made a choice to turn away from hard work and take the easy path. In mythology, Lucifer offers the easy road.

The path out -in my view- is to focus on real acheivable effects and industries, like programming, ethical finance, longevity, organic nutrition, earthships, 3D printing, whatever...

I hope the exposing process continues. But I won't let it consume too much of my energy. I don't want to spend years of my life fighting tar-babies and shadows.

[boutreality]

Daozen,

Agreed, taking the time to highlight these few that I've come across is my small contribution toward the outing process. This in no way compromises dedication to my discipline.

BTW the recently posted Farrell interview ties well into the science side of my NAZIS/NWO/NEW AGE thread, if interested, I just posted to highlight how it ties in:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...WO-the-NEW-AGE

The outing of charlatans in the Alt Media is a facet of the overall progress against those factions (IMO)

[boutreality]

To anyone interested, CW has posted a reply video, linked below. The first 32m is a clean, fair minded assessment and, as he says, "In the end people will side with Bill (Ryan) or with me," and something like "that's inevitable."
After about 32m he gets into his editorial, which is spoken from the same polarizing character I happen to enjoy.

I still hold that he raises a valid point re: questioning the backgrounds of Alt Media personalities and the source of its memes.
https://youtu.be/2ybxeGBtVw4

BTW Bill Wood (interviewed by Kerry; spoken of on PA) is a pedophile, there is no statutory consideration when the age difference is that large and the girl is 12. Here's a link to an overview of the him and the incident in question:
https://youtu.be/W-BtUByJvRE

[Innocent Warrior]

"In the end people will side with Bill or with me,"

Bill who, Bill Ryan? That man has an overly inflated sense of self importance. NOBODY dictates what my choices are. Has he taken Bill up on his offer, has he bothered to find out all about how and why that situation stands as it is? If he hasn't then it is he who hasn't done his due diligence.

[boutreality]

I understand your opinion of CW, it is not mine.
I'm not sure I even care about details of the tiff between Bill Ryan and CW.
I was just relating that a response video by CW has been posted.

I did clarify my previous post.
Thanks

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by boutreality (here)
I understand your opinion of CW, it is not mine.
I'm not sure I even care about details of the tiff between Bill Ryan and CW.
I was just relating that a response video by CW has been posted.

I did clarify my previous post.
Thanks

Cheers for the clarification. I skipped through to see if he has contacted Bill and it does look as though he has at least done that this time, will take it back to the start and watch it.

[Soda]

Posted by boutreality (here)
To anyone interested, CW has posted a reply video, linked below. The first 32m is a clean, fair minded assessment and, as he says, "In the end people will side with Bill (Ryan) or with me," and something like "that's inevitable."
After about 32m he gets into his editorial, which is spoken from the same polarizing character I happen to enjoy.

I still hold that he raises a valid point re: questioning the backgrounds of Alt Media personalities and the source of its memes.
https://youtu.be/2ybxeGBtVw4

BTW Bill Wood (interviewed by Kerry; spoken of on PA) is a pedophile, there is no statutory consideration when the age difference is that large and the girl is 12. Here's a link to an overview of the him and the incident in question:
https://youtu.be/W-BtUByJvRE

Bill Brockbrader was the first one to confess and discuss, in length, his experience with the underage lady. He wasn't outed. He wasn't caught or forced into confession. He outright talked about it and he has apologized many many times. But without getting into the pedophile or not a pedophile argument, what is so unbelievable about his testimony regarding Iraq? Why is this guy C.W. Chanter going after Bill Brockbrader after all of these years? Brockbrader is in hiding and very silent. And Don Shipley is obviously a very low-level backwoods patsy (IMHO) who wouldn't ever be involved in any sort of real intelligence. And please understand my questions/comments are not directed at you personally. I am just throwing my thoughts out there, I guess. Thank you. Utmost respect to you.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by Weezer (here)
Bill Brockbrader was the first one to confess and discuss, in length, his experience with the underage lady. He wasn't outed. He wasn't caught or forced into confession. He outright talked about it and he has apologized many many times. But without getting into the pedophile or not a pedophile argument, what is so unbelievable about his testimony regarding Iraq? Why is this guy C.W. Chanter going after Bill Brockbrader after all of these years? Brockbrader is in hiding and very silent. And Don Shipley is obviously a very low-level backwoods patsy (IMHO) who wouldn't ever be involved in any sort of real intelligence. And please understand my questions/comments are not directed at you personally. I am just throwing my thoughts out there, I guess. Thank you. Utmost respect to you.

Posted by boutreality (here)
BTW Bill Wood (interviewed by Kerry; spoken of on PA) is a pedophile, there is no statutory consideration when the age difference is that large and the girl is 12. Here's a link to an overview of the him and the incident in question:
https://youtu.be/W-BtUByJvRE

He was involved with two 16 year old girls as well. I just don't know if those cases were prior to this one you mentioned, or after. So, we have a case of a repeat offender here Weezer. How sorry can he be? Why are you defending him?

[Cidersomerset]

Angela's Caches - Angela Power-Disney talks to Zen Gardner

Some technical difficulties for first 5 mins or so and periodically ....

A good discussion Zen gives some of his background and how he got into the
church and various aspects of his life . It will not satisfy every one but does give
some idea what was happening from his perspective. The information should be
taken in context of what was happening with the 60's/70's/80's free love
generation.

Child abuse , religious cults have gone on before and are still going on. I have
posted all types of articles on here , this is not a black and white issue . Sure all
abuse is wrong but it seems to be part of the human psyche from the beginning.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-to-Fix-it----

The Sumerian/ Egyptian /Judea religious cults spawned thousands of years ago are
still alive and well . The question whether Zen is guilty with the millions of other
various cult members is not in doubt , its up to the individual whether you believe
his explanations or not and no doubt more will come out. You can go in many
different directions from here , but look at all of it with an open mind , we all
know what is right and wrong in our own reality , this cannot be explained in
simple terms as there are leaders, followers , victims in all walks of life.

Yes I get very angry at all the injustices going on and war , crime , abuse is
wrong but we should be careful with denouncing Zen in this case until we are sure.
There are many people outed on the Jimmy Saville thread , but not all are/were
proven guilty and some may be innocent.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nT1DCPk4-DI

Published on 23 Aug 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwsrA...

[Chester]

Posted by boutreality (here)
The Alt Community should not be known as a haven for con men and frauds that, once they have positioned themselves/been positioned as Alt Media Fixtures/Leaders, are given a free pass on the measure of their character.

What's your opinion on the following situation. (note, I may not have the facts right but please, indulge the below scenario... as if I have it pretty much right).

Regarding ZG (and also based on his own statements) - if someone has made mistakes in their life... including some really big ones, if they then truly see the light, have some sort of profound, life changing spiritual experience and/or get some serious counseling where they made real positive changes... and then, over time, it becomes clear that individual really did make these changes at their core because the negative behaviors ceased, how now should this person be viewed?

If the story I hear about ZG is accurate, the man changed his life dramatically (and extracted himself and if I understand this correctly, his family as well as best he could) from that terrible cult... and did so 17 years ago.

Now, maybe there's more to all this. But I have to go on all and only what I read here in this thread and the links provided in several posts.

I will be building to a few things but need to ask a few questions of this nature first.

[boutreality]

I wish that hypothetical person well.
Should that person position himself where he may be construed as a guide for others, he or she has responsibility to disclose up front what troubling times he had in his past hat may speak to (hopefully past) troubling flaws in his character.

Weezer-

CW's "going after" him, even after "all these years" -as you say, fits the model of what CW is addressing. That is, "Who are these people in the Alt Media? Where do they come from? Should they be trusted?"

[Chester]

Posted by boutreality (here)
I wish that hypothetical person well.
Should that person position himself where he may be construed as a guide for others, he or she has responsibility to disclose up front what troubling times he had in his past hat may speak to (hopefully past) troubling flaws in his character.

Weezer-

CW's "going after" him, even after "all these years" -as you say, fits the model of what CW is addressing. That is, "Who are these people in the Alt Media? Where do they come from? Should they be trusted?"

I am a poster here on Avalon. Sometimes people contact me and we become Skype friends. Sometimes we have chats, sometimes voice calls and sometimes we have video calls. Sometimes these conversations are lengthy. In some cases I might be provided counsel or advice... sometimes I may provide counsel or advice. Usually this happens when solicited. I do my very best never to offer counsel or advice unless I am asked. I do share many of my experiences. Some of these experiences were difficult and even traumatic for me. Some were caused by others, some caused by me, many caused by others as well as myself and some seemed simply a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time (and some would blame that on their definition of karma).

In all cases I have had to seek resolution to the issues that have arisen in my life. I do not like loose ends of any kind.

I have often shared what I did to resolve those issues as long as I was either asked or, if I offer to share it, the offer is accepted. This could be considered sharing counsel or advice. Some have appreciated me for this. Some have benefited... at least that is what they told me.

But my life is complex and I am involved in all sorts of projects unrelated to matters of the heart and soul and mind and spirit. It is these things from which I earn the funds I need for managing my life in the fashion I desire, comfortable enough... far from wealthy. And at my age and with kids and even a grandchild, much of my efforts center around being there for them financially as each one struggles to get on their own independent feet.

But because I am fortunate enough to be able to finance my life independent of anything related to the Alternative Community, I won't be writing books, making videos, or creating websites that raise my public profile such that I might transition to offering counseling whether to help folks without charging or perhaps even to generate income from what I might do in regards to assisting others. indirectly or directly. This is me and my situation and though they say "never say never" this one can be taken to the bank. Yet having said this, I do not begrudge anyone who is able to make any type of decent living if that income is derived via providing some form of true help to others and this goes for forum creators, website creators, researchers, book writers, video creators, and counselors (in person, via voice communication, via video calls and even web group situations).

So... back to myself - with all the above in mind... and with the fact that I know, for a fact, my past is riddled with mistakes... some pretty terrible ones, should I make public all these things on this forum because I am in some very tiny way a "public figure' due to my public postings?

And as I noted above... I do sometimes provide counsel to others who I have met through the various forums and blogs within the grand umbrella I call the Alternative Community. Of course, I have also received a great deal of counsel as well. Some of it actually created the spaces for growth... growth that has stuck.

Many who have read my most revealing posts over the almost 5 years I have been a forum member (90% or more of these posts made right here on Avalon) would probably say that I have been one of the most personally revealing forum members they have encountered. In fact, I would not be surprised if some folks felt I have gone too far and done this many times ("Sam... too much information!"). I have done this mostly for the selfish reason of healing. I won't go onto the details but being a former active member of AA, one of the things I took from AA was the recommendation that to get sober and stay sober, an alcoholic/addict really needs to be rigorously honest. Of course they mean more than anything, be honest with yourself... but my case has been so severe I have been compelled to share much of it here on the forum.

Yet not all.

Yet still, should I spill all the beans?

If I do before someone is deemed to have "forced me to" does this give me a pass? If I do not, and some of the folks I have shared some things with suddenly demand I do... and then I do, would that now make me eternally a "bad guy?" Does this mean that the being I was back in the days of my worst mistakes is still that same being? Does this void me from being a (mostly) positive being for Avalon and the members of Avalon and non-members who catch some of my posts?

I hope that Citizen No2 and boutreality and some others who seem to share the "hang Zen Gardener" view would share with me their thoughts along these lines.

[dredsen]

It seems many did not watch cw's video response. That is not meant to be derisive the video is very long. Cw states his main problem is that he did send bill an email asking questions but bill posted the email here instead.

Since its unlikely many will not be watching the hour and a half video I am transcribing Cws letter to bill (to which bill replied on page 4). I post this in the hopes that there is some misunderstanding as I wish these things did not happen, as I like Bill Ryan and CW.

Dear Mr. Ryan,

I hope this email finds you well, and the Weather is pleasant in your neck of the woods.

Though it might not seem obvious or self evident, I Love you and am happy to be writing to you on this day

I'm not angry at anything you have said about me

I acknowledge that any criticism that I may have regarding same are perfectly mirrored by the criticisms you may have regarding things I've said about you

I acknowledge the factual accuracy of your statements regarding your previous invitation to dialog

One of the reasons I did not accept the invitation was because I was experiencing heavy emotions over the effect my actions had on Shane, and his timeline.

Another reason was fear and distrust of You

Yet another reason was my reluctance to go down any path which may have lead to me stopping what I was doing on YouTube, an activity which I was enjoying

I acknowledge that as you did not specifically endorse Bill Wood, and as you are not in control of the Project Camelot YouTube channel, my statements regarding your relationship with him contained in the "Zen

Gardner" video were inappropriate and inaccurate. For clarity of the record this statement is also by and large applicable to Mr. David Icke in regards his relationship with Zen Gardner, if only for other reasons and

rationale.

Mr. Ryan, I hope the candor of the statements against self interest made above testify to some measure of integrity and honesty possessed by myself.

The statements that follow are not intended as a "but", rather they are intended as an "and".

To the best of my ability to know myself I am not an intentional spreader of disinformation and lies, though I do make mistakes and errors in judgement.

I still believe that some of my criticisms of you and your actions taken before, during and after your involvement with Project Camelot, and now during your tenure at Project Avalon are legitimate and valid.

Take it as a lesson learned by me, or as a benefit of the doubt to you, that I will refrain from discussing those criticisms here and will rather wait until we can speak directly about same.

To that end, let us make arrangements to talk about same in a medium more expansive then mere text, on or off the record in the vid or voice chat forum of your choosing. I simply believe that text is a 3rd rate

communication medium compared to others which modern technology has made available to us.

[Citizen No2]

@ Sam Hunter:

I hope that Citizen No2 and boutreality and some others who seem to share the "hang Zen Gardener"

That's a presumptuous statement Sam........... I'm a little shocked at that one buddy.

We are talking Sam (re Zen), we are discussing quite a shocking revelation, and we are (naturally) privy to all viewpoints. People do have differing viewpoints, thank goodness, for a wide variety of reasons.

I do not presume that someone who does not get angry with paedophiles is somehow a paedophile sympathiser. Likewise, I'm not calling for Zen to be hung in some sort of witch-hunt.


R


R

[Chester]

Posted by Citizen No2 (here)
@ Sam Hunter:

I hope that Citizen No2 and boutreality and some others who seem to share the "hang Zen Gardener"

That's a presumptuous statement Sam........... I'm a little shocked at that one buddy.



R

ahhh ok maybe it was a presumption. Honestly though, it was the impression I got from a few of your posts (yet more subtly than boutreality's posts). If I am wrong about this, I truly apologize... please help me understand better your posts - if possible, in summary.

Also, please give me your opinion as to what you think I should do and why. Those who know me here know I don't shy away from things.

[Citizen No2]

Sam,

I can't tell you what to do or why. What I get upset about is people who put themselves out-there as a Truth Warriors, extol the virtues of love and light and truth, whilst all the time they either have an ulterior motive, possibly a past that if known to their followers would make them bolt for the door, or out and out liars. That is my 'problem' Sam'. I am certainly not trying to influence what people should do or say, how they should think and act or what info they should follow.

It is my opinion Sam, and mine only, that we interested in the Alt Media scene are doing ourselves a great dis-service, not to mention possible damage, in not carrying out proper due diligence on potential whistle blowers and Alt Media personalities.

That's about the size of it Buddy.


R