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Thread: Age of Consent

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Age of Consent

    I saw this being discussed as an aside in another thread, and will run with Bill's suggestion to start a thread on it here.

    This is a very slippery slope, I know, but lets give a try anyway.

    Theres a personal element here for me. I recall being a junior in high school. I had just arrived to my spanish class with my girlfriend at the time, who was a sophomore. I gave her a peck on the cheek and proceeded to enter the classroom when my teacher pulled me aside and said - with a degree of disgust - "jesus Mike she's just a sophomore!"....

    And I thought "..yes, but i'm only a junior". I saw no reason for her comment, and besides, there was no law against 17 yr olds having romantic relationships with 16 yr olds.....or was there?

    I started asking around. Everyone had a different idea of what the law was. Of course what I was doing wasnt illegal, but the damage had already been done. I was young and vulnerable to the opinions of my teachers..and I sat thru that class feeling confused and disturbed and vaguely ashamed..

    ...and it kicked off a paranoia that lasted nearly a decade. Whenever I met someone I was attracted to, I'd suddenly morph into a dmv teller..demanding 3 forms of I.d. before i'd even hug them. Joking, of course..but if there was any doubt at all i'd go out of my way (in often comically absurd ways) to make sure the person was 18, even when it was quite clear that they were.

    I knew a guy (a really nice guy too) who had a consentual sexual relationship with a 15 yr old when he was 19. When it was discovered by her parents, they notified authorities. That guy did 7 months in a juvenile facility of some sort, and will have to live with the stigma "sex offender" for the rest of his life. I thought that was quite harsh.

    There has to be a law for age of consent, however arbitrary, for all the obvious reasons. But I wish the law left a little room for common sense.

    Discuss.

    (Wasnt sure where to put this thread? Mods please relocate to wherever you deem appropriate)

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Canada seems to have worked something out to the effect of what you are talking about.


    Quote The Tackling Violent Crime Act raises the legal age of sexual consent in Canada to 16 from 14, the first time it has been raised since 1892. But the law includes a "close-in-age exception," meaning 14- and 15-year-olds can have sex with someone who is less than five years older.May 1, 2008
    Canada's age of consent raised by 2 years - Canada - CBC News

    www.cbc.ca/.../canada/canada-s-age-of-consent-raised-by-2-years-1....

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.

    Agreed.
    I have a friend, a really great guy, he was walking from one bus stop to another and had ripped a hole in his pants.
    The police arrived at his bus stop via a complaint that was made, and now he has the stigma of being a sex offender for the rest of his life as well.
    I've heard the same thing for people who have been caught peeing in public if you will.
    This seems ridiculous to the extreme to me.


    I'm of the opinion that repeat offending pedophiles should be labatomized and have the portion of their brain responsible for sexual impulse removed and or deactivated. But that being said, there is a big freaking difference between a guy who hooked up with a girl at a bar getting in with a fake ID and someone who is actively pursuing prepubescent children.
    Last edited by DNA; 21st August 2016 at 17:53.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    In my opinion, the law is here to serve a Purpose. It is not the LAW we need to focus on, but the PURPOSE.

    Consent.

    I know a thing or two about non-consensual experiences and let me tell you, there is a reason the hand of the law on this subject is made of stiff stuff.

    However, if there is no crime, there needs be no punishment. This should be common sense, but in the proximity of patriarchal Law, the concept of thinking leaves us entirely. This must be changed and it starts with each and every one of us forgetting everything we know about the fake matrix of laws and controls here to enslave us.

    There is no one right answer just as there is no right religion. All are welcome here on Earth for we all belong here. We all have lessons to learn from each and every one. Luckily, not all of us have to learn from the dire consequences of the true crimes relating to this delicate subject matter.

    Last edited by Fanna; 21st August 2016 at 17:27. Reason: bf thinks i am an idiot
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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.

    Agreed.
    I have a friend, a really great guy, he was walking from one bus stop to another and had ripped a whole in his pants.
    The police arrived at his bus stop via a complaint that was made, and now he has the stigma of being a sex offender for the rest of his life as well.
    I've heard the same thing for people who have been caught peeing in public if you will.
    This seems ridiculous to the extreme to me.


    I'm of the opinion that repeat offending pedophiles should be labatomized and have the portion of their brain responsible for sexual impulse removed and or deactivated. But that being said, there is a big freaking difference between a guy who hooked up with a girl at a bar getting in with a fake ID and someone who is actively pursuing prepubescent children.
    Jeez man...thats absurd.

    Christ, I once openly urinated in a grocery store. It was something like 1 in the morning. Look, it was either in the aisle or in my pants! all I can say is, thank god for those lifesize cardboard figures advertising beer and chips(jeff gordon in this instance). There was no one around, but still..it provided a nice buffer. Sure, write me a ticket for being a drunken jackass....but reading your post it seems very clear I could have been arrested for a sex offense?! Thats unreal!


    Oh, and I agree with you entirely on repeat offenders
    Last edited by Mike; 21st August 2016 at 17:38.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Spot on Fanna....and great pic!

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Tequila Se'Lai!

    Some topics just require a little bit of liquid courage to approach. Apparently I am not alone either xD In my big city, recent ordinances have put every bathroom outside of a strategically placed Walgreens out of the public use. Needless to say, my tiny bladder has peed in a few alleys before as well (thankfully never in a grocery store behind Jeff, omgggg).

    To flare up this topic, I will just mention that the only time I have EVER been confronted, the officer down in california who was clearly just trying to get a closer look. It was ****ed up. He was trying to talk to me as I am sitting there squatting with pee splashing everywhere. Is the law intended to protect or to serve a means to an end?

    **** the law. Choose to do the right (or at least the best possible) choice in every moment and find peace that you are bringing about a better world.


    #unintendedsavior
    Last edited by Fanna; 21st August 2016 at 18:18. Reason: picture too big
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Oh Fanna, the memories are now flooding back

    This was something like 17 years ago, before the youtube craze etc... Otherwise id likely be in some infamous grainy black n white viral video, titled something like "watch drunk guy leave ocean of piss behind jeff gordon in local grocery store!!!!" (Theres always like a dozen exclamation points after those titles)

    But even as it stood, I was still worried id be discovered somehow and even alerted my Dad to the situation so as to soften what I felt would be the inevitable blow...a headline on the front page "local man urinates in beer aisle, desecrates jeff gordon.." with a worried looking pic of me, furtively glancing over my shoulder as I did the deed.

    But alas...I dodged that bullet.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    This was something like 17 years ago, before the youtube craze etc... Otherwise id likely be in some infamous grainy black n white viral video, titled something like "watch drunk guy leave ocean of piss behind jeff gordon in local grocery store!!!!"
    Tell 'em Jeff did it!
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    In respect of OP it has always been a bone of contention with me that the law is so rigid and even arbitrary. Individual cases are not looked at with a view to circumstance.

    I understand the law is to protect vulnerable girls from predatorial males, but make no mistake there are predatorial females too. In addition there are girls as young as 13 who have matured fast and hormonal influence can drive them to 'biologically' seek out experiences. By the same token there are girls of 19 and 20 who are still not ready for any kind of physical relationship. Exactly the same applies to males except the demographic is diametrically skewed, less of the younger males are ready for relationships. Almost as though nature had already considered the potential problems and accounted for them.

    When I was 22 and having a drink in a bar after work, I saw a curly haired blonde girl riding by on a horse. I whistled out the window to show my appreciation; (it was a long time ago - wolf-whistling was a lot more common then). To my surprise, (and not a little trepidation, I wasn't as confident as I made out), she dismounted and came over to the window to chat. Cutting to the point we ended up going out and around 5 weeks into the relationship she anounced to me it was her birthday yesterday. I asked why she hadn't told me before as I would have liked to get her something. "I was 16." she told me. I'm quite sure an icy chill ran down my spine, for four weeks I'd been dating a 15yr old. I think it took me a day or two to realise she had never mentioned her age before for a very good reason, that's how niave I was back then. It took me about 48hrs to realise she had been deliberately quiet about the subject.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by Fanna (here)
    Tequila Se'Lai!

    Some topics just require a little bit of liquid courage to approach. Apparently I am not alone either xD In my big city, recent ordinances have put every bathroom outside of a strategically placed Walgreens out of the public use. Needless to say, my tiny bladder has peed in a few alleys before as well (thankfully never in a grocery store behind Jeff, omgggg).

    To flare up this topic, I will just mention that the only time I have EVER been confronted, the officer down in california who was clearly just trying to get a closer look. It was ****ed up. He was trying to talk to me as I am sitting there squatting with pee splashing everywhere. Is the law intended to protect or to serve a means to an end?

    **** the law. Choose to do the right (or at least the best possible) choice in every moment and find peace that you are bringing about a better world.

    #unintendedsavior
    The climate in California allows it, so maybe that's why it is more common there. i was in an LA car park, on the way home after a meal out, and the guy pissing against the wall next to us was actor Nicolas Cage.

    Back to topic- , just as eating habits of healthy diets are approximations at a well-functioning individual, so laws are approximations at a well functioning society.

    And most laws are designed to suit regional needs.

    But imagine a global society where all legislators are vegans...they might find it difficult to impose such laws on people living in arctic regions.

    The age of consent in desert regions was always lower, not so much because the men there were all pedophiles, but often took women and children into their households because the husband had been killed or died, and women on their own could not survive there. So laws regarding the number of wives, or age of consent were to protect their reputation, in the context of the local religion.
    Last edited by ulli; 22nd August 2016 at 12:58.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Well put Ulli. Exactly what im thinking but too groggy n thick tongued to articulate.

    Well, if anyone had to steal my piss in public thunder, it might as well be Nic Cage..

    I was just sort of thinking, pedophiles have their arbitrary figures as well, unfortunately. And thats where I get tripped up in all of this...the sheer arbitrary-ness of it all. Most people, even the most heinous criminals, are usually doing what they feel is right given their understanding of the world. For example, theres this local guy named john jamelske...kidnapped, raped and kept women hostage in some creepy maze of bunkers in his back yard. He's been in prison for years, and even now he can't fathom why. If you watch him in interviews, he's genuinely perplexed as to what all the hubbub is about. He doesnt think hes done anything wrong. Its unbelievable! I think alot of these pedophiles are like that...

    Making me think: maybe theres some f'ed up planet out there where rape and pedophilia are regarded as the norm and perfectly ok....and the sane are thought of as criminals. Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Well put Ulli. Exactly what im thinking but too groggy n thick tongued to articulate.

    Well, if anyone had to steal my piss in public thunder, it might as well be Nic Cage..

    I was just sort of thinking, pedophiles have their arbitrary figures as well, unfortunately. And thats where I get tripped up in all of this...the sheer arbitrary-ness of it all. Most people, even the most heinous criminals, are usually doing what they feel is right given their understanding of the world. For example, theres this local guy named john jamelske...kidnapped, raped and kept women hostage in some creepy maze of bunkers in his back yard. He's been in prison for years, and even now he can't fathom why. If you watch him in interviews, he's genuinely perplexed as to what all the hubbub is about. He doesnt think hes done anything wrong. Its unbelievable! I think alot of these pedophiles are like that...

    Making me think: maybe theres some f'ed up planet out there where rape and pedophilia are regarded as the norm and perfectly ok....and the sane are thought of as criminals. Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..
    Our planet is about chosing whether to live by the law of the jungle, the way animals do...eat and be eaten....
    or whether to live by a higher ideal which requires self restraint and self denial for the sake of the greater whole.
    People who are driven purely by instinct find the second choice inconvenient. And if they get caught it was just a matter of bad luck.

    Then a third option would be personified by someone who can find the balance between doing the least harm to themselves and others, and yet can still thrive.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Hey Ewan, thank you for that intelligent, thoughtful post! I bet there are quite a few of us that have found ourselves in that situation. Appreciate your honesty there.

    This thread has high potential for conflagration...and im pleased it hasnt descended into that.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    I have been on the opposite end of the stick as the OP...

    When I was 18 I looked 15, and I'd be dating older guys. I didn't even know until many years later that these poor men had to withstand "looks of disgust" while holding my hand.

    Age of Consent is really just a legality to help the law make judgments, and it does have a downside. Anyone under the age of consent has the "upper hand" when it comes to the law, and young children are getting increasingly sneaky and deceptive. I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    So laws regarding the number of wives, or age of consent were to protect their reputation, in the context of the local religion.
    Laws can thus be used for ill under all circumstances. It is not a matter of falling in line with the laws, it is all a matter of falling in line with the LAW. The law simply being that we treat others with respect.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..
    No, simply our society. Destroy society; save the world.
    Fire everything.
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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Slightly off-topic the peeing in public thing but there is not another creature on the planet that attempts to hold its bladder, or bowel come to that, if it needs to go. I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the UK public conviences were far more common 40 or 50 years ago that now. Council cutbacks I guess, can't afford a cleaner or senseless vandalism. If they remove the tolets then what options are you left with.

    I saw two guys, rather drunk I suspect, in Amsterdam who just stopped in the middle of the street and unloaded. They could have made some effort to be a little discrete but didn't care, possibly the drink.

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    I have been on the opposite end of the stick as the OP...

    When I was 18 I looked 15, and I'd be dating older guys. I didn't even know until many years later that these poor men had to withstand "looks of disgust" while holding my hand.

    Age of Consent is really just a legality to help the law make judgments, and it does have a downside. Anyone under the age of consent has the "upper hand" when it comes to the law, and young children are getting increasingly sneaky and deceptive. I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.


    Thanks for that Petra...

    I can sort of relate. My aunt n uncle are out of town and decided to leave their 13 yr old daughter - my cousin - home for a week. Crazy, I think, but thats another thread..

    Anyway, ive been checking up on her and hanging out with her to keep her out of trouble. Now, im 39 but I look quite young..or so people say. In other words, im not quite old enough looking to be her father..in most peoples eyes anyway. But im much too old looking to be a friend or a boyfriend..

    So here I am, taking her for ice cream...here I am, taking her to Moes...here I am, taking her to the movies. See, we keep going to the same damn places, and im getting some serious sideways glances, if ya know what I mean. People are suspicious. My inclination is to say f#ck em, but im quite human and would be lying if I said I wasnt feeling very self conscious over the whole thing

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    Default Re: Age of Consent

    Regardless of age of consent laws --nature will out.
    Those with self control (not judging) will perhaps refrain from having sex before the legal age.

    Upbringing is more potent than law.

    My Mum said "If they are good enough to sleep with, they are good enough to marry"

    Im not sure my lack of experience got my first marriage of to a good start.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  40. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Ewan (22nd August 2016), Mike (22nd August 2016), RunningDeer (25th August 2016)

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