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Thread: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Atlas:

    Quote During powered flight of the space shuttle, crew escape was not possible. (Challenger, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour were built with no ejection seats)

    Inside the twisted debris of the crew cabin were the bodies of the astronauts, which were nearly unrecognizable after ten weeks of immersion in salt water.

    Navy pathologists performed autopsies on the crew members, but due to the poor condition of the bodies, no exact cause of death could be determined for any of them.

    The crew transfer took place on April 29, 1986, three months and one day after the accident. [...] they were flown to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to be processed and then released to their relatives.
    The poor buggers. You can't begin to imagine what that must have been like. Thank God.


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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Quote Posted by Citizen No2 (here)
    @DeDukshyn

    Am glad you know how a jet engine works,...... Me too. I will say this though. If the audio has been over-dubbed, I'd love to know what engine the video maker has recorded. Because that sound of engine does not belong to Rolls Royce, General Electric or Pratt and Whitney engines. It is especially prevalent in this video, which utilises the same footage. Especially interesting is the sound when the space-vehicle comes to a stop.

    Interesting stuff.

    From the 52 second mark.




    Quote Lastly, I want to hear what the motivation would be for the faked disasters?

    That space travel is very difficult and very dangerous. That the most cutting-edge stuff we have can still go wrong.

    That would be my guess. All part of the massive cover-up that says we have tech that can get us into space, and beyond, that we mere mortals cannot even comprehend.......... Yeah, that would be my guess.

    Regards.
    There's still no intake nacelles, it doesn't sound like any jet engine we know of (do we even know what the space shuttle sounds like with all systems active to say it doesn't sound like this - and as you said, it sounds like no engine we know of, the argument gets weaker, not stronger); the audio is very likely not from or of that landing anyway; the guy on the OP video claims to have found these people who died, yet offers no sources for how he found these people or is able to give us any way to verify his findings.

    So you are saying that "space travel is very difficult and dangerous" and that they need to "fake" these disasters to prove it to us? That's getting dangerously close to a flat earth argument because that theory rides on the premise being true that space travel is non-existent - something which I have not seen remotely proven nor found any reasonable evidence for. Basing a premise on an extremely weak premise hasn't a whole lot of value in my opinion. NASA does lie, but not everything they say or do is a lie.

    Unless someone shows me something that actually works as good evidence my stance will remain the same ... "mildly interesting"
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Quote flat earth argument
    What? Christ-on-a-bike.......... Slow down man.

    I'm merely pointing to what I thought was an interesting aside. The video showing the shuttle landing seems to have audio that sounds like jet engines. You say it is over-dubbed, it could well be....... Can you show me proof of that? The sound could well be some sort of powered generator, could be anything. It is not a concrete belief of mine, and I won't be shattered should it be empirically proven that, no, the shuttle does not land under jet power.

    I do think that we are offered a pony and trap show as far as space travel is concerned, and I do think that they have tech that is, literally, light-years ahead. Just from observing the massive jumps that all other tech has made, versus space travel, well............. It don't compute.


    Regards.

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    From: wikipedia.org/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster

    Among the recovered items was a videotape recording made by the astronauts during the start of re-entry. The 13-minute recording shows the flight crew astronauts conducting routine re-entry procedures and joking with each other.

    The recording, which on normal flights would have continued through landing, ends about 4 minutes before the shuttle began to disintegrate and 11 minutes before Mission Control lost the signal from the orbiter.


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    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    .....Mildly interesting, but not strong enough evidence to be suspicious, I can't verify this guy's claims on people, twins birth rates is 3-5%, higher than most would imagine. and it makes little sense that these people changed their names just "a little bit" -- if one is in a witness protection program or something that these people would be under - there would be a complete name change.

    Lastly, I want to hear what the motivation would be for the faked disasters? There would have to be some pretty strong motivation for them to do this - and to "save" the crew. No one has presented a motivation - this is an integral part of any conspiracy. ....
    Another researcher tackled the subject last year (here) in a more in depth manner than the somewhat flippant video in my previous posts. Intriguing if the information is true and the screen shots aren't photo-shopped to support another crazy conspiracy theory.

    Regarding motive, pure speculation on my part but perhaps financial? I'd expect that Challenger would have been insured against all manner of malfunction, perhaps for a considerably higher value than its actual worth, but like I said, pure speculation on my part. Also, maybe worth mentioning that NASA did receive an extra $188 million in it's 1987 budget compared with 1986 when it's budget was $7,403 million. Interesting that it jumped up to over $9 billion in '88 and up to over $11 billion in '89 - quite a hike.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to sell this, rather, simply entertaining possibilities to larger or lesser extents.
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Quote Posted by Citizen No2 (here)
    KiwiElf wrote:

    Quote The Shuttle does NOT possess jet engines of any kind. ZIP. ZERO. NADA. It IS a rocket-powered "glider", the rockets being used for orbital flight maneuvers (and the lift off).

    Skip to 1:03.......... It piques the interest, no?

    Oh, and please, please, please ignore the fact that it is a 'Flat earth' video...... I implore you! I post only for the relevant Shuttle landing footage.




    Regards.
    No,... it does NOT pique my interest... at all. I grew up around airplanes. I've been "in" Aviation most of my life

    Sound effects can easily be added to a video (can you show me proof that it hasn't been overdubbed??), & comparing the frictional wind noises of a Shuttle to a little sailplane with a fraction of the mass is like comparing a Jumbojet to a Cessna, (or a Mack Truck to a Honda Civic) ... pointless!. All objects moving at speed through the air (including your car) make air friction noises which increase with speed. OK, these are not just air friction noises:

    The Jet noise? The shuttle is often accompanied by one or more jet aircraft "pacers" on its approach to landing as an extra pair of eyes, which if the video sound(s) of a jet on these videos are genuine, then that's probably where it's coming from, not the Shuttle. The "doppler effect" of the sound doesn't match the position of the shuttle, (the way a "vehicle" sound changes as it approaches and how it changes once it passes you), but sounds more like it's coming from a (off-camera) jet flying overhead of the camera. If not, that to me is virtual proof that the soundtrack is fake.

    As detailed schematics are available of the Shuttle - please, show me where the "jet engines" are? Nothing top secret or classified about it.

    http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4225/diag...le-diagram.htm

    If the OP had done an ounce of research, we wouldn't need to be having this conversation (providing a video produced by a flat earth believer as "evidence" says it all and yes I did watch it... all of it)
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 19th September 2016 at 12:24.

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Quote Oh, and please, please, please ignore the fact that it is a 'Flat earth' video...... I implore you! I post only for the relevant Shuttle landing footage.
    Did you read that bit. Are you trying to herd me in with the FE crowd?

    The T-36 chase plane's engine emits a very high-pitched scream, not like the sound on the vid, considering you've been 'in' aviation all your life I'm surprised you'd use that as a qualifier for your stance......... But never mind.

    I'll make it crystal clear-er for ya. I'm not saying that I believe 100% that the shuttle lands under powered flight. My stance was one of interest only. I don't think the earth is flat (I dunno what that has to do with this, but you're the 2nd to bring that up). I'm glad it doesn't pique your interest. I'm glad you've posted the shuttle schematics. Can you answer me a genuine question please? What are the tyres of the shuttle inflated with? I am genuinely interested in what your thoughts are.

    EDIT: Your observation on the Doppler effect is a very good observation. Thanks for that. I find the red and blue shift of the frequency of light attributed to Doppler very interesting too.

    Oh, and the jet engines are the three, big, pointy things at the back.

    I'm kidding....... OK.


    Regards.
    Last edited by Citizen No2; 18th September 2016 at 20:36.

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Yes, I did read it (and no, I'm not putting you in the category of a flat earther,.., ) but as it IS a FE video, IMO, the credibility of the producer's "intelligence," motive, research abilities and knowledge of the subject is already questionable.

    Sorry, I don't know what the shuttle's tires are inflated with (the Shuttle never really interested me to that degree of detail); is it relevant to "jet noises" or the thread topic?) - with all respect, if it does interest you, look it up - "Google is your friend"
    (However, on the point of its tires, if the "jet noise" was coming from the shuttle, where are the tire screeches as it touches down? They'd also be quite audible... which again leads me to believe the sound on these videos is over dubbed).

    (I can tell you that as a teenager, the shrieking, humming and other weird wind noises from the roof racks on my VW Beetle at motorway speeds was louder than the noisy engine, stereo or fat tires! At certain speeds, on the inside, it sounded like ... a flying saucer!)

    And my qualifier as an aviator/pilot is quite reasonable; if you'd spent a lot of time around airfields and in different aircraft - including gliders - you'd know that over a certain speed, all aircraft make various whistling, whooshing, roaring and shrieking sounds separate from their engine noises - even "little gliders". As I haven't personally witnessed a shuttle landing, I really can't tell you what exact sound it or a T-36 makes (or doesn't). The live recorded sounds from a video camera can be very deceiving and not the same as you hear with your "naked ears..."

    eg, The video below isn't a fair comparison, but this is the recorded sound from inside the cockpit of a P-51 Mustang Racer (Griffon piston engine) at Reno after it's engine fails, effectively turning it into a "glider": VERY jet-like noises, before and after the engine quits...



    (You may also want to look up "Bob Hoover aerobatics" on YouTube performed in a piston twin-engine Aero Commander executive aircraft; Bob was famous for doing airshow aerobatics in this type of airplane with the engines shut down... you'll clearly hear quiet jet-like noises as it passes over the crowd...)

    The argument was: shuttles have jet engines. No. They don't. (... and that fact is fairly common knowledge, even to "non-aviation" people...)

    You (or the OP) can quite easily prove this to yourself within a few minutes research

    Last edited by KiwiElf; 19th September 2016 at 13:01.

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    Default Re: Are the Challenger and Columbia astronauts still alive?

    Possible motives for the shuttle disasters are:
    - to use the shutdown of the program to accomplish something else that shuttles were interfering with, or
    - send a warning from the ssp to the whiteworld politicians to not make the shuttle program or its descendents too ambitious,
    - not to mention to allow further financial embezzlement of nasa for the ssp

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