Parenting

[Lifebringer]

I too have been abused as a child and my children suffered when I too picked up the same nasty alcoholic flare ups. They were young and rebellious as I was hard of hearing (due to abuse with a mayonaise jar across the ear) high pitched noises set me off and that's after sexual abuse by not immediate family members when I was 3 until 7 years of age. When I drank away the pain, it enhanced the hurt and need for closure that never comes. You must look at it like a bad zit stage in puberty and now realize you've matured. I've had multiple personality disorder which is actually a safe house of the mind, that takes you out of those horrible situations. It took a long time to finally pull myself together, and I had to do it by not allowing "mood altering drugs when I'm blue" to enhance the depressed state those relived thoughts bring. My 1st born's father was highly abusive drunk, where as I was an "escapism drunk." I'll not get too in depth as, you yourself have said, judgements of others isn't really that important, as surviving the whole experience(s).

Bottom line is "you are not alone, they were taught by those who also were slapped for being smarter than their parents in education, but what doesn't kill us makes us stronger and smarter to not do that to others, unless in defense.

[jimrich]

Dear Lifebringer, your story is very touching and painful and I wish I had a magic wand to make it all better and you seem to be doing good now so maybe it is "better" after all.

Posted by Lifebringer (here)
they were taught by those who also were slapped for being smarter than their parents in education,

Without getting into the deep and dark mental/emotional jungle of my parent's and a "paddling" school teacher, they "slapped, hit, beat and paddled" us BECAUSE THEY COULD!
We, their helpless victims, could not stop them and the law was on their side back then.
They abused us in the name of "teaching us a lesson" because they LOVED IT! If they had not been getting some THRILL from hurting us (Sadism), they would NOT have bothered.
As an adult, I can now see exactly why adults do this to their defenseless victims and pets - IT'S FUN! (for the adult!)

but what doesn't kill us makes us stronger and smarter to not do that to others, unless in defense.

The bottom line is the golden rule: Do not do to others what you don't want done unto you!....or something like that...., and, although I've abused others and animals, I KNEW BETTER but did it anyway - BECAUSE I COULD!
So, I am just like my BAD parents in many ways, but I do try to follow the golden rule when I have a glimmer of Conscience.
I've often wondered if any of these Abusers, like my parents, ever even get a Conscience? Probably not when they are DRUNK or ANGRY!!!!
I am proud of you for trying to follow the golden rule...... Bless you.

[TargeT]

Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
You go into it with all these ideals and plans on how you're going to be a better parent than your parents and you end up discovering things ....

Like showing love isn't done via gifts and "spoiling"... The best parenting is done when clarity in the duty is achieved. I'm raising capable, independent, balanced individuals (or at least, that's my goal) and a big part of that is letting them discover things on their own and encouraging self reliance and self confidence over safety net usage.

a Light touch is best IMO (don't micro manage, observe and advise); that and heavily fostering curiosity (aka self motivation).

I've had a lot of practice, I have 6 children and 1 grandchild currently.

Posted by jimrich (here)
All of you hysterically defensive parents are so obvious and transparent to those of us who were your defenseless victims in the past and we did enough therapy to see through you pathetic LIES.

I think you're looking for your parents here, I don't think you'll find them.

[jimrich]

Posted by Sueanne47 (here)
OMG I can relate to that!! but Dad didnt treat me like a favourite or let me have an opinion.

Our little sister was allowed to speak and have opinions but she was very quiet and I now believe that she lived in dread fear of dad and us mean boys. I liked and loved my little sister but never had the emotional skills to be a good friend to her. She was the brightest light in my otherwise bleak and black life and it still hurts to remember has badly I sometimes treated her!

I'm a parent as well, Emma my daughter who's 21 has only just started to talk to me (a little though ~ she is arrogant, haughty & an independant Annie!) so I've been quiet to let her come to me

I'm sorry about that. What did you and your husband do to her?
I lost my love and respect for my parents very early on and only spoke to them when I absolutely had to. As an adult, I had very little to do with mom and nothing to do with dad. They, not I, set up the bad relationship between us and it never got fixed! They both died ALONE!

..but Dad did put a word in her ear.

What does that mean?

Good parenting includes letting the child speak and have an opinion so they can let their confidence grow but also give them guidance that they can take or leave,

When I visited my cousin Gary, the 3 kids would sit at breakfast and JABBER like a pack of happy unfettered monkeys which startled me since we ate in Stony Silence at my home! Dad HATED noise at the table so we never smacked our lips to made any unnecessary sounds! I could see that the kids at my cousin's home were: happy, unafraid, open, very opinionated and the parents both listened, laughed and allowed their silly, childish opinions on everything. They did not live in shameful terror like we had to!

also having fun together forms a glue between you, after all we dont want them to look back and have bad thoughts as a child.

LOL, I don't think my parents cared one way or the other about our attitudes towards them. I'm sorry that your child is not happy with you. Again, what did you do to her?
Best wishes,
jim

[jimrich]

Posted by Baby Steps (here)
I will just heal whoever I can.

BEAUTIFUL!

[jimrich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
I would go sledging tomorrow.

Good for you.
Now, get a Sponsor!

[jimrich]

Posted by Justplain (here)
Hi Jimrich, yes i am both a parent and a step-parent. These roles have provided some of the most rewarding, and challenging, moments of my life.

Examples of good parenting:

- being supportive and affectionate, especially in a time of need, such as giving deserved praise and a hug when needed (children need hugs, kisses and hand holding especially at younger ages)
- disciplining when necessary, such as after misbehaviour like stealing or not doing chores, etc., mostly by depriving the child of something they like, such as tv or computer time, or going to bed early.
- being consistent in how the child is treated, rewarding and punishing, in reasonable quantities when deserved
- feeding them nourishing food
- restricting the child's access to negative influences, such as violent or anti-social media (my daughter doesnt watch much tv except sports with me, no net surfing either except for school related stuff)

Bad parenting:

- beating kids
- not showing enough attention to them when needed
- being inconsistent
- providing bad food
- not regulating media activity

Hope that helps.

[Sueanne47]

Hi Jimrich,

That is just my daughter's character ~ very independent, doesnt like to talk much but she isnt unhappy, you know how teenagers are! they are entranced with their Iphone 95% of the time..

[jimrich]

Chris, at first I wanted to just ignore this childish AA/Al-anon lecture but since we are both Recovery veterans, I’ve decided to let others see how Recovery veterans handle these things.

Posted by greybeard (here)
jimrich elsewhere you quote spiritual teachers, you are obviously knowledgeable on the subject--you have spent years studying Advaita.

One of the main teachings is to be in this moment to let go of the past.
Can you not do that?

Yes, I can be in the moment, can you do that?
As for the “past”, it needs to be worked with and on it to find some peace with what happened back then. Don’t ignore your past because it contains valuable insights for the now. The pains and feelings plus the joys from one's past are significant and should not concern anyone other than those within those past relationships.
Can you let go of Jim's past?

--pain and suffering belong in the past.

If that is your opinion, fine.
Pain and suffering need to be resolved and healed or they will never stop pestering you. Ask anyone with PTSD!
Can you do that with your obviously unhealed past pains?

Its not necessary to buy into every thought that comes up.

So, why do you still do it?

You like Mooji--what would he say to you at a Satsang if you talked repeatedly about things that happened many years ago?

First of all, Mooji would not get annoyed like you and many others are at this forum and then give an AA lecture.
He’d say, “Your on the right track, Jim, so keep on talking about and working on those feelings and issues UNTIL they are resolved and healed. Its working, one day at a time, no pain-no gain, feel what you feel, let go, let god, stay in the now.” LOL, Mooji would have many more powerful pointers to offer.

I have scars on my body from a sledging accident that nearly took my life--I would go sledging tomorrow.

Mooji and Rupert would wisely ask: Who is this 'I'? .... your ego or Reality?

Nearly drowned twice--I would go swimming tomorrow

Again, Mooji and Rupert would wisely ask: Who is this 'I'? ....your ego or Reality?

--what is there to limit me? Only a thought that I cant.

Who/what is this 'me' and this 'I'? ....your ego or Reality?

Thoughts come and go --they are transient--they dont rule my life.

Who/what has a life? ....your ego or Reality?

I dont avoid them, deny them--I just dont feed them, give them energy.

Who or what are these 'I's and are you speaking as your AA ego or as Reality?

For anybody else reading this.... Who/what is sitting there reading? .... an ego or Reality? What is looking from out of your eyes, right now.... your ego or Reality???

If it's your ego, you're stuck....but if it's Reality, you're home free!!!!!

This is just one example of what often happens at Sharing Meetings!

[jimrich]

Posted by Sueanne47 (here)
you know how teenagers are!

Yes, I remember being a teenager. Were you ever one?
I remember that some of us teenagers were wonderful, happy, respectful, kind, vocal, good and honorable kids, thanks to good parenting and then there were kids like your daughter, my brother and me and my late wife's girls who, thanks to very inadequate parenting were not so good!
Every kid I ever knew or know now is either good as the result of good parenting or is/was damaged in some way by bad parenting.
Well, I suppose genetics and disorders could be considered but we were mostly effected by parenting - both good and bad!
Many parents whine about teenagers without ever seeing that their kid is a reflection of the kind of parenting that created this unhappy teenager in the first place!
When my late wife bitched and whined about her 2 kids, I often said, "Look who raised them!" (She had no answer for that!) It ticked me off when she, a very inadequate mother plus an alcoholic dad, putting her own kids down!

After my late wife crossed over (she's still here), I learned that their oldest daughter was MOLESTED as a child by her Aunt's 1st husband and NOTHING was ever done about it!
Well, I guess something like that could produce an unhappy teenager and now an ALCOHOLIC - not that many parents could or would notice this!
Your teenager is nothing more than a reflection of you and your good or bad parenting so stop whining and learn something from your kids.
Several of the women in my late wife's family were raped and molested as young kids.............so, WHERE THE HELL WERE THEIR PARENTS???????

[Flash]

Being a good parent is:

Being filled with love for your children, this is paramount - in fact being filled with love for all in your life and filled with thanks for life itself.

Being a post on which to lean when needed for your children, being a guide when needed since you are 30-40 years older and have learned a bit about life.

Being and letting them be. This means being able to perceive who your children are, what are their talents and foster it the most you can.

Knowing, because of your life experience, that teenagers are teenagers and will be rough with you when going through it. Their hormones play havoc, their brain is not completely formed yet, but they think they know and you don't. Lots of patience and strong interventions at times is a must.

Sacrifice, yes, sacrificing your time - lots lots lots of it, your energy - lots a it , your finance(around 150,000 to 200,000$ to raise a child not counting college or university, when they have no major problems), sometimes sacrificing your friends, for the prime welfare and well being of your children. Putting them first while taking care of your own needs when possible (yes, i say when possible because it is not always possible).

Finally, being flexible and ready to change your stance on a quarter flipping, when unexpected situations arise.

Of course, no dope or booze around, learning about good food, the biology of the body, the spiritual side of human beings, and transfering it into your care for your children.

NOW

Now, not many people are able to do ALL of this. Can we reproach them? Certainly not, they do the best they can, if not on drugs or too brainwashed.

- I will not give my own experience here as a mom because it is misjudged by the OP and classified, categorised as good or bad, definitely not understood. I do think I was an exceptional mom, and my daughter says so too, even if sometimes she tells me I overdo it. The fact is that she can tell me, and I will listen. The fact is that we both went through very particular circumstances that cannot be judged or evaluated by outsiders. This did build up our relationship in a very strong way. The fact is that she still needs, at 20 years old, her 1-2 hours every second day of discussion with her mom about her life, her thinking, or need for advice (that she asks for). I am sooooooo glad she can speak period, let alone speak her mind, that it is a pleasure to keep up conversing with her, sacrificing time with my boyfriend to do so.


But, I have a question for the OP: what is being a good child to one's parents?

I am sad to see Jimrich that, at 78, you are still in the "me me me me" pattern and "look what has been done to me and whose fault it is" pattern. The rest is to give us a lesson on how to parent our children (this is quite arrogant lolllll but cute at the same time, because we see what you don't). Anyhow, you are a very good lesson to me. I will solve all remnant of disagreement and anger towards my mom before I or she pass away. I now want to live fully and not being hanged on past anger.

[greybeard]

Jim I am not angry, laughing.
Why would I be?
I know what I am.

Best wishes
Chris

[Flash]

Why don't you just plainly love Jimrich. Just love your step daughter for having done what she could in ther life. Love her mother for having dealt with life as she could, love your sister and brother, AND MOSTLY LOVE YOURSELF, true love, knowing who you are - defect or tendencies and qualities. Just give love to all, you cannot imagine how it is curative to those on the receiving end.

And you don't understand teenagers at all, so stop patronizing parents here for the ways they deal with their teenagers. This is on the fringe of insulting. For heaven sake, Just love those parents caught with difficulties.

If you would have an ioata of understanding of human biology and changes during growth and their impact on behaviors, you would just know to shut up when considerieng teenagers education.

Posted by jimrich (here)

Posted by Sueanne47 (here)
you know how teenagers are!

Yes, I remember being a teenager. Were you ever one?
I remember that some of us teenagers were wonderful, happy, respectful, kind, vocal, good and honorable kids, thanks to good parenting and then there were kids like your daughter, my brother and me and my late wife's girls who, thanks to very inadequate parenting were not so good!
Every kid I ever knew or know now is either good as the result of good parenting or is/was damaged in some way by bad parenting.
Well, I suppose genetics and disorders could be considered but we were mostly effected by parenting - both good and bad!
Many parents whine about teenagers without ever seeing that their kid is a reflection of the kind of parenting that created this unhappy teenager in the first place!
When my late wife bitched and whined about her 2 kids, I often said, "Look who raised them!" (She had no answer for that!) It ticked me off when she, a very inadequate mother plus an alcoholic dad, putting her own kids down!

After my late wife crossed over (she's still here), I learned that their oldest daughter was MOLESTED as a child by her Aunt's 1st husband and NOTHING was ever done about it!
Well, I guess something like that could produce an unhappy teenager and now an ALCOHOLIC - not that many parents could or would notice this!
Your teenager is nothing more than a reflection of you and your good or bad parenting so stop whining and learn something from your kids.
Several of the women in my late wife's family were raped and molested as young kids.............so, WHERE THE HELL WERE THEIR PARENTS???????

I cannot believe that instead of helping your wife when she had difficulties with her children, you put her down "Look who raised them" IS PUTTING HER DOWN. So you contributed to the problem it seems instead of helping.

Second, you are whining yourself about your own parents, how can you tell a parent to stop whining about anything????

Ok, this is my last post here.

[jimrich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Jim I am not angry, laughing.
Why would I be?
I know what I am.

Best wishes
Chris

LOL, I also know what you are!

[jimrich]

Posted by Flash (here)

Ok, this is my last post here.

Bye, bye.

[Flash]

you don't like my take on you don't you? You cannot look at yourself?? or you are drinking before writing???

Just love,

Posted by jimrich (here)

Posted by Flash (here)

Ok, this is my last post here.

Bye, bye.

[AutumnW]

Jimrich, you forgot the "Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah!" There's also the crowd pleasing,"made you look!" How about, "I know you are but what am I??"

Seriously, grow a pair, quit manipulating people, cross examining them, insulting them. If you want to fight with somebody, you have picked the wrong group.

[jimrich]

I'm guessing, based on the few parents I know or knew that raising kids is NOT the toughest part of a parent's life. Being HONEST with your self is the toughest part and is actually the toughest part of life for most humans because we are taught to be DISHONEST with our selves from a very early age to please and fit in with the DISHONEST folks around us. It took my parents and some other very angry folks a while to break me of my tendency and desire to be HONEST but, once they succeeded beating HONESTY out of me, I (the ego) became very skilled at Denial, Delusion and DISHONESTY - just like most of you (egos) are!
Society insists on Denial and Self Deception so here we are - a pack of Deluded egoic LIARS. Welcome to the party, everyone! Now go have some fun............

[TargeT]

Posted by Flash (here)
this is my last post here.

its hard to work things through when you approach a subject with a self self righteous attitude & are actively looking for a combative exchange (I'm guessing some unprocessed stuff is begging to be dealt with... a "Heroic dose" of psilocybin might help?)

A full cup can receive nothing

Posted by jimrich (here)

Posted by Flash (here)

Ok, this is my last post here.

Bye, bye.

My 9 year old acts like this.. at times she always has to get the last word too.

How was this response helpful or conducive to discussion at all?

Did it further some hidden agenda you have, or are you just indulging your ego?

[jimrich]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Jimrich, you forgot the "Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah,Nyah!" There's also the crowd pleasing,"made you look!" How about, "I know you are but what am I??"

Seriously, grow a pair, quit manipulating people, cross examining them, insulting them. If you want to fight with somebody, you have picked the wrong group.