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Thread: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    DNS vulnerabilities can be worked around -- I run my own DNS services, and cache and save all lookup results, going back years, so I could still get to any site that had the same IP as before, even if all the public DNS services I use (I have 9 of them listed in my /etc/resolv.conf at present, not counting my own DNS servers) became non-cooperative. However that's not for the faint of heart or less than ambitious geek.
    Jim Stone pointed out something on his site that I should have noticed before. He wrote:

    Quote FACT: A vast majority of TOP LEVEL DOMAIN web sites on the internet DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN IP ADDRESSES. The ONLY way to them is via the DNS servers which ICANN will take control of. The DNS servers have all the routing information needed to get to web sites that do not have their own IP adresses. Many people who run their own web sites are clueless about this, they just see the IP address in their Cpanel and figure it will work if they try using it. They are wrong. If they ever copied and pasted that IP address and tried to hit their web site with it, it would produce NOTHING because 50 other web sites are also using it and the server would not know which one you wanted to get to without the routing information provided by the DNS server.
    What he's pointing out is that often multiple websites are behind the same IP address, and that a front end to these several websites receives all Web requests to any of them, and figures out which website to send the request to, by looking at the URL to see which website is named in it.

    Here's an example. If you look for the IP address behind the ProjectAvalonStatus.net website that I run, you will see that it's at IP 69.164.204.136. However if you then enter http://69.164.204.136/ in your web browser's address bar (or if you just click on that last link I just entered here), you will not get to the ProjectAvalonStatus.net website. Instead you will see this terse and useless web page:
    Welcome to pauljackson.us!

    That's because there are several websites, all at IP address 69.164.204.136, not just ProjectAvalonStatus.net. For example, ThePythonicCow.us and AvalonLibrary.net are also there, and the front end to my several web servers cannot tell which website you want unless you name it, not just it's shared IP address, in the URL address you provide.

    If you are trying to access a website by IP address, because the publicly available DNS servers refuse to or are unable to provide the correct IP address, one might actually have to run one's own DNS server(s) in order to translate the website name to it's IP, so that (1) the website name can be sent along to the server, for it to figure out which website at that IP address to pass the request to, and (2) the website name (URL) can be translated to the correct IP address.

    The http://projectavalon.net website does not have this issue. It's the only website at its IP, so you can successfully get to it using the URL http://198.143.158.131/ (at least until such time as our Avalon forum IP address changes for whatever reason.)

    (As I said above, this is not for the faint of heart or less than ambitious geek. <grin>)

    Or, as Jim Stone wrote later in the same post of his that I linked and quoted above:
    Quote BOTTOM LINE: Don't be lazy, thinking "some hacker or programmer is going to save it all" because that won't be the case. "Hackers and programmers" will probably be able to keep the DEDICATED IP part of the web visible for themselves, but when it goes dark for anyone who is not like them, practically all web sites that get blocked are going to die eventually because traffic is life, and they won't be able to survive with only the 3 percent or so of the population that can figure it out and still get to them. And if a web site does not have dedicated IP, even hacker Joe will have no way in.
    ===

    I have now talked myself into half agreeing with TargeT's concerns over DNS, that he posted above.

    Yes - DNS blocking has been (we agreed on that already) and will continue to be a serious means of blocking "undesirable" websites, as will the increasing increasing bias against "insecure" unencrypted HTTP websites and the central administration of SSL certs required to operate an encrypted HTTPS website.

    So now I am of the opinion that the centralized management of both DNS maps and SSL certs will each provide choke points for the central control of the Web.

    (But I remain more skeptical of whether block chain technology can provide a real solution here.)
    Last edited by Paul; 24th September 2016 at 14:06.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    (But I remain more skeptical of whether block chain technology can provide a real solution here.)
    Arthur C. Clarke famously said that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    I would suggest a corollary to that: "Any sufficiently advanced technology, in the hands of the elite bastards, risks being indistinguishable from the bars of a prison cell."

    ... for example, Intel CPU's, Windows, cell phones, Google, Facebook, the Internet, bank lending, computer controlled autos, the Internet of Things, ... and block chains .
    Last edited by Paul; 24th September 2016 at 15:59.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    DNS vulnerabilities can be worked around -- I run my own DNS services, and cache and save all lookup results, going back years, so I could still get to any site that had the same IP as before, even if all the public DNS services I use (I have 9 of them listed in my /etc/resolv.conf at present, not counting my own DNS servers) became non-cooperative. However that's not for the faint of heart or less than ambitious geek.
    Jim Stone pointed out something on his site that I should have noticed before. He wrote:

    Quote FACT: A vast majority of TOP LEVEL DOMAIN web sites on the internet DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN IP ADDRESSES. The ONLY way to them is via the DNS servers which ICANN will take control of. The DNS servers have all the routing information needed to get to web sites that do not have their own IP adresses. Many people who run their own web sites are clueless about this, they just see the IP address in their Cpanel and figure it will work if they try using it. They are wrong. If they ever copied and pasted that IP address and tried to hit their web site with it, it would produce NOTHING because 50 other web sites are also using it and the server would not know which one you wanted to get to without the routing information provided by the DNS server.
    What he's pointing out is that often multiple websites are behind the same IP address, and that a front end to these several websites receives all Web requests to any of them, and figures out which website to send the request to, by looking at the URL to see which website is named in it.
    or he could be pointing out that a lot of big websites use a "pool" of IP's not just 1 (in fact most do it this way, to handle traffic load; Amazon, for example, has over 4 million public IP addresses alone).

    However, "the only way to get to them is via DNS" isn't really true... even if there is just 1 IP address there will be a consistent repeatable way to get to a website (covered by this RFC ) via sockets or header information (IE, stuff you CAN find out and CAN access with out DNS).

    Now, to shift you back to your SSL worries:

    Every SSL cert must have it's own IP address tied to it and while we are still on IPv4 IP addresses they are a seriously limited resource.... forcing mandatory SSL *(somehow, not sure how)* could create a scarcity situation which is the play ground of TPTB.
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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Every SSL cert must have it's own IP address tied to it and while we are still on IPv4 IP addresses they are a seriously limited resource.... forcing mandatory SSL *(somehow, not sure how)* could create a scarcity situation which is the play ground of TPTB.
    No longer true, I believe.

    One can now bind SSL certificates to the website name (base URL), rather than to it's IP, allowing multiple websites to share one IP, with each website having it's own SSL cert.

    See for example: Using Multiple SSL Certificates in Apache with One IP Address.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim Stone
    FACT: A vast majority of TOP LEVEL DOMAIN web sites on the internet DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN IP ADDRESSES. The ONLY way to them is via the DNS servers which ICANN will take control of. The DNS servers have all the routing information needed to get to web sites that do not have their own IP adresses. Many people who run their own web sites are clueless about this, they just see the IP address in their Cpanel and figure it will work if they try using it. They are wrong. If they ever copied and pasted that IP address and tried to hit their web site with it, it would produce NOTHING because 50 other web sites are also using it and the server would not know which one you wanted to get to without the routing information provided by the DNS server.
    What he's pointing out is that often multiple websites are behind the same IP address, and that a front end to these several websites receives all Web requests to any of them, and figures out which website to send the request to, by looking at the URL to see which website is named in it.
    or he could be pointing out that a lot of big websites use a "pool" of IP's not just 1 (in fact most do it this way, to handle traffic load; Amazon, for example, has over 4 million public IP addresses alone).
    Jim Stone spells out how to see the problem - by copying a numeric IP for some website to the URL bar, and noticing you can't get it, because there are other websites at the same IP, and the server doesn't know, just from the numeric IP, which one of those website you're trying to connect to.

    I gave a specific example of this, involving my own websites, several of which share a single, static IP.

    So, I'm pretty sure that's what he was pointing out, and I agree with him that that's a problem. Only the small percentage of us willing and able to our own DNS servers might be able to workaround this problem.

    I agree with your observation that the big sites using multiple IP's and other complex routing on major backbone servers to direct user's traffic to whichever of their servers is "closest" to that user is a separate issue, that so far as I can see, presents a different variety of challenges to our freedom.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Here's an example of how putting an explicit IP in your web browser's URL address bar doesn't always work. In this case, cloudfare, a content provider network that acts as a major data distribution and caching frontend for many websites, required the name of the website that I wanted in order to know how to route my request.

    One of the economic websites that I frequently visit, http://neweconomicperspectives.org/, is having problems. I was getting "404: Not Found" errors on their main page. So I looked up their IP address in my DNS logs and found it to be 104.18.38.4. In this case, I could have queried the usual public DNS servers as well, since they still report that IP correctly. The problem with neweconomicperspectives.org has something to do with their web server, not with the public DNS records.

    But in any case, I happened to try going to http://104.18.38.4/, and I was rewarded with this screen:

    =======================
    =======================

    The moral of this story: simply knowing a website's IP doesn't necessarily mean you can access that website by putting it's numeric IP in your browser's URL address bar.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Here's an example of how putting an explicit IP in your web browser's URL address bar doesn't always work. In this case, cloudfare, a content provider network that acts as a major data distribution and caching frontend for many websites, required the name of the website that I wanted in order to know how to route my request.

    One of the economic websites that I frequently visit, http://neweconomicperspectives.org/, is having problems. I was getting "404: Not Found" errors on their main page. So I looked up their IP address in my DNS logs and found it to be 104.18.38.4. In this case, I could have queried the usual public DNS servers as well, since they still report that IP correctly. The problem with neweconomicperspectives.org has something to do with their web server, not with the public DNS records.

    But in any case, I happened to try going to http://104.18.38.4/, and I was rewarded with this screen:

    =======================

    The moral of this story: simply knowing a website's IP doesn't necessarily mean you can access that website by putting it's numeric IP in your browser's URL address bar.

    it takes more than just an IP address and a port number these days.. there's TCP header info and usualy a socket involved as well.

    I wasn't meaning to imply it was "cut and paste" easy, and no; I have no sympathy for the users that expect it to be easy and "just work". If your going to use a bit of technology and it's important to you, you need to be aware of how it functions.... we have set the bar far too low in society and are shocked at the outcome... it's time to raise the bar again.
    Last edited by TargeT; 26th September 2016 at 22:07.
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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    it takes more than just an IP address and a port number these days.. there's TCP header info and usualy a socket involved as well.
    Well, there's pretty much always a socket involved. Sockets are the essential communications channel over which all these TCP/UDP/... packets are sent. They implement the session layer connectivity, in the OSI model

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I wasn't meaning to imply it was "cut and paste" easy,
    My previous post was just intended to share with readers of this thread another example of how this stuff works (or in this case, doesn't work.) I was not thinking that you implied this stuff was easy. I was giving an example to others of how it isn't so easy.
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    and no; I have no sympathy for the users that expect it to be easy and "just work". If your going to use a bit of technology and it's important to you, you need to be aware of how it functions.... we have set the bar far too low in society and are shocked at the outcome... it's time to raise the bar again.
    I'm more pessimistic as to whether the bar will be raised, rather than sink further, for many.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    My primary concerns were the interlocking vice grip of (1) shifting most users over to normally only interacting with HTTPS encrypted websites (Google is leading the way here, with Chrome's increasing bias against HTTP sites), and (2) central control of the SSL certificates required for acceptance by these browsers.
    That didn't take long.

    Dropbox, Microsoft OneDrive and Google Drive are being blocked in Turkey. User's see SSL errors instead. This follows the leak of a set of private emails allegedly belonging to Minister Albayrak It seems that Turkey doesn't want file sharing services that might host such leaked documents available within Turkey. Apparently Turkey is using control over SSL certificates, required to access the "secure" HTTPS used by these file sharing services.

    See further https://turkeyblocks.org/2016/10/08/...ked-in-turkey/, which was in turn reported at https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/10...cked-in-turkey

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    I think the SSL cert errors were indicative of a MITM (man in the middle) attack, not blocking websites; turkey was probably re-directing traffic through their servers before passing it to Dropbox. You can still get around an SSL error still... this was most likely just another DNS redirect. Unless turkey runs a "state web filter" like N korea.. I don't know their methodologies exact.y
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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    And here's another example of how access to
    1. important Internet domains (such as the ".com" domain and now the ".pharmacy" domain),
    2. major online advertising channels (see this Google AdWords policy),
    3. Internet payment services, and
    4. SSL Security Certificates for encrypted https connections
    is increasingly being used to favor elite interests over rascally upstart rebel interests.

    Jeremy Malcolm posted on The Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) site the article How Big Pharma's Shadow Regulation Censors the Internet.

    He wrote, in part:

    =========
    Americans pay by far the highest prices in the world for most prescription drugs, and of course big pharma would like to keep it that way.
    ...
    The latest extension of this Shadow Regulation regime is through the new top-level domain .pharmacy, which was granted by ICANN to the NABP last year notwithstanding a petition with almost 25,000 signatures from users opposed to the move. Websites registered in that domain space must comply with the same restrictive policies that qualify pharmacies for approval for the LegitScript or VIPPS registers.

    This is perhaps not such a tragedy while there are other top-level domains in which pharmaceutical websites can be registered. But the NABP would like to see that changed too [PDF]. ICANN itself disclaims responsibility for policing the content of pharmaceutical websites, and rightly so. But the NABP is demanding ICANN force domain registries and registrars to require that any pharmaceutical website produce a license to dispense medicine to any jurisdiction that it ships to. This would not only shut non-U.S. pharmacies out of the .pharmacy domain, but effectively wipe them off the Internet altogether.

    Where are the voices of healthcare consumers and Internet users in all of this? Their voices are not being heard, because the mechanisms of Shadow Regulation that have been put in place by powerful government and private industry forces have deliberately shut them out. The unsurprising result is that the measures put in place by this closed and captured process are too broad, favoring the private interests of big pharma, limiting access to information and access to safe and affordable medicine.

    We agree that fake and substandard medicine sales are a problem that regulatory and law enforcement agencies should address. But they should do so through proper legal channels, or at least through cooperative mechanisms that are inclusive, balanced, and accountable — which ASOP, CSIP, LegitScript, and .pharmacy are not.
    =========

    The above article was later republished on Wolf Street, where I first found it.
    Last edited by Paul; 10th October 2016 at 20:53.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    A pithy summary of the above thread that came to me just now:
    The War on CyberHacking, like the War on Drugs, the War on Nukes, the War on Crime, the War on Disease, the War on Poverty, the War on Terror, the Wars on Tyranny, the War on Election Fraud, the War on Banking Fraud, the Wars on Genocide, the Wars on Islam and on Islamophobia, the Wars on Semites and anti-Semites, the Wars on Sexism, Racism, Homophobia, and Misogyny, and so many other such Wars ... is intended to make the world safe for democracy the world's most powerful and their use, abuse, distribution and monopoly control of CyberHacking, Drugs, Nukes, Crime, Disease, Poverty, Terrorism, Tyranny, Election Fraud, Banking Fraud, Genocide, Islam, Islamophobia, Semites, anti-Semites, Sexism, Racism, Homophobia, Misogyny, and other such abuses or leverages of abuse.
    For example, it is more difficultt for an ordinary person to detect such spying as described in the Slashdot article Secret Backdoor in Some US Phones Sent Data To China, if the web traffic from phone applications is encrypted,
    Last edited by Paul; 15th November 2016 at 18:11.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    I suspect that the Elite Bastards are not only setting up to bring the Wild Wild Web under control. I suspect that other areas involving computer and communication technology are being setup for great conflict, to be settled with more control.

    For example the means for exchanging money is being moved from paper currency and its digital surrogates, to digital currency, centrally controlled from the highest levels of the planet. The means for deciding elections within the US, and the US Electoral College are being setup for massive conflict in the coming month, in the Trump vs Clinton battle. Likely the means of elections in other states and regions will see similar stresses. The means for distributing "news" is being setup for huge conflict, between those blaming the Russians, conspiracy websites, and fake news sites, versus those blaming the main stream media.

    The pot is being brought to a boil: the Web, social media, news media, money, elections ... many areas that have been passing through their "Wild Wild West" phase are now being setup for the climatic battles that will justify "sending in the marshalls, to make things safe for humanity."

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    I just now ran into a specific example of one way that the bastards are rapidly gaining immense control over the World Wide Web.

    Google managed to completely shutdown all my web and email access to any major "trusted" https only websites, by adding another option to a root security certificate that wasn't recognized by most of my linux software. I could still visit more primitive websites, using "insecure" http. Major websites however are increasingly refusing to allow access via "insecure" http.

    Fortunately, I had some old web browsers that only warn, rather than flat out refuse to continue, when presented with an unrecognized root certificate option, which enabled me to see what that option was that was causing the problem. Then I could use my extensive debugging experience to track that certificate back to a file on my PC, and then further back to the software package that installed that file. Then I could use my extensive backups to pull up an older version of that software package and downgrade my PC to use that older version.

    Most people could not have done that.

    I have no idea what I would have done, without that expertise and those backups and those dozen vintage web browsers that I keep around. The root certificate security system that is being imposed on the web by Google and accomplices puts massive "web shutdown" capability in the hands of some unknown (to us) manager deep inside Google, reporting to God (or Satan) only knows who.

    Just as cities have enabled the elite bastards to better control humanity by herding them into densely populated areas with major critical dependencies on centrally controlled infrastructure for food, water, utilities, transportation, communication, energy, ... (all useful tools for surveilling and controlling the masses), similarly the World Wide Web is being restructured so that most everyone is in "cities", critically dependent on major sites that offer easy surveillance and control to our overlords.

    A few free men may still live out in the country (unless a drone strike targets them), but most no longer live that way.

    Notice that a major trend in China these last 20 years was moving its farmers into new cities ... just another example of this.

    Anyway ... returning from my little imaginary trip to rural China ... the push to make websites "secure" (to depend on encrypted https, rather than plain text http) puts immense power in the hands of very few. In this case, the very few are inside Google, and almost certainly trusted allies of the deep state US intelligence. If you and your 10 million best friends want to use a particular "secure" https website, or in my case above, if a particular individual wants to use any "secure" website, it takes just a few clicks of a mouse and a few keystrokes by the right person, in the right place, to shut that down.

    A few old farts who have messed with this stuff for a long time (like ham radio operators in another example of this) will still be able to talk to other such old farts. But 99% of PC users, and 99.99% of mobile users, are at the mercy of their overlords for web access.
    Last edited by Paul; 28th April 2017 at 14:16.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    2 or 3 years ago, on a music/recording/tec forum someone said he'd been told that there was a plan to use the BBC as the web gatekeeper in UK. The plan is/was to allow the BBC to finance itself from it so it can get off the TV license fee system. Can you, with your experience throw that into the mix and get a better idea what they might be up to going forward. I'm sure the guy was for real, in as much as he knew.

    The only finance scheme I can imagine is that they get to impose penalties on web users for breaking lots of petty rules.
    Last edited by norman; 2nd April 2017 at 23:40.
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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    2 or 3 years ago, on a music/recording/tec forum someone said he'd been told that there was a plan to use the BBC as the web gatekeeper in UK. The plan is/was to allow the BBC to finance itself from it so it can get off the TV license fee system. Can you, with your experience throw that into the mix and get a better idea what they might be up to going forward. I'm sure the guy was for real, in as much as he knew.

    The only finance scheme I can imagine is that they get to impose penalties on web users for breaking lots of petty rules.
    Beats me ... I don't know much about the BBC, nor about how it might finance itself, nor about how it might be a web gatekeeper. Sorry .

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Google has announced the next step in their forced march of the Web to HTTPS, as I just posted here: Firefox and Chrome Now Warning About Insecure Login Pages (Jan 2017).

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Important update here
    Last edited by Paul; 16th May 2017 at 19:49.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    We're now seeing this game step a notch.

    GoDaddy and Google are taking down the Daily Stormer website, by taking away its domain name. They could do the same to us, or any other website that they choose to target ... removing the mapping of our URL ProjectAvalon.net to our IP address, 198.143.158.131 for several years now, from the Internet's name servers.

    See for example:The conflict, with fatalities, over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, between radical "left" and "right" wing groups, which the police apparently deliberately corralled into the same area, head to head, and then allowed to attack each other, while the police stood back and did nothing, is being blamed for the shutdown of the Daily Stormer website. The same excuse is being used to attack Trump, because his speech to the nation on the conflict made some allowance for there being "two sides" to the conflict, so is thus responsible (in the view of American main stream media) for causing the conflict. As Dave Hodges points in his analysis of this conflict, Soros Dips Into the Nazi Playbook at Charlottesville, this conflict, both sides of it, may well have been orchestrated by groups funded by George Soros, in much the same way that Fascist vs Communist conflicts in Berlin were orchestrated by Goebbels, in the late 1920's, helping to give rise to Hitler and justify ruthless attacks on the Communists who were blamed for the initial violence (that Goebbels orchesterated.)

    This is how it happens -- conflict, violence and propaganda are used to raise emotions and divisions to a fever pitch, justifying tyrannical takeovers of democratic governments.

    The elite bastards behind the US have been doing this, through the agency of the US, to other nations for many decades. Now it's time for the US to be victim to such violent propaganda.

    Taking down dissident websites, by controlling their domain name (URL) and/or https (SSL/TLS) security certificate (the original topic of this thread) are one of the tyrannical acts that will be justified, and that was justified this weekend, as the immediate consequence of such violent propaganda.

    I mean ... who would be opposed to taking a violent Nazi white supremicist white nationalist racist web site down?

    ... if that is you trust the main stream media's description, obtained in part from "witness on the scene" former CIA operative Brennan Gilmore, according to this report. We are fortunate to have such competent witness testimony, and such honest and thorough news media </sarcasm>
    Last edited by Paul; 15th August 2017 at 09:19.

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    Default Re: How the Elite Bastards will control the Wild Wild Web.

    Paul, when I heard about the daily stormer thing last night I mentioned to my husband that this move is so obviously part of the plan and I wondered if it violates the first amendment ...
    Last edited by Shannon; 15th August 2017 at 19:14.

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