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Thread: The Heather Material

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Kin, why don't you start a new thread about your experiences, and post a link to it here in this thread?
    Here you will always be asked about the heather thing, just because the name of this thread.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    yeah I might do that, if the management have no objections.

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    United States Avalon Member Redtailhawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    I will ask the obvious question here Kimsuemei2. Why in the world would you give the alleged Military documents away to a friend without making back up copies? By your response I assume you did not make copies? If for no other reason than to clear your name, and to back up your story?

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    Avalon Member Enlightenment101's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    I was not to sure what to make of the Heather story, I did enjoy the man interviewed, his story was very interesting,
    Real Truth Lights the way in the Darkest of hours

    Enlightenment101

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    kinsuemei2, you are doing a lot of damage to Camelot+Avalon and also to genuine whistle blowers with this rubbish you have concocted.
    It's very convenient you no longer have the cd's or documents, your friend will now have a car accident, is that what happens next? the suspense is killing me!
    Do the decent thing kinsuemei2.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    I am finding it hard to keep my anger in check with that last idiots post, but redtailhawk my friend, i wanted that material gone, and I told EVERYBODY that might have wanted to look at it, come to my doorstep and get it, they have, they are here in this forum, believe it or not, I could not care less what people think, at this point because the situation is insane. and clear my name? i don't see how it would have helped me? it might have helped heathers case a little, as she could have been duped, but holy hell people will still wonder about as they have passing off remarks and gestures, no my name would not be clear for a long time, but really the only four people I give a dam about know me, and who I am and what I represent, the rest of this is not important to me, now I have to deal with my experiences and look after what family I have left, and Concerned square.. your car crash remark was in bad taste, you have no idea whats going on with me, only one person in this forum does, and it's not Bill or Kerry, so please don't try to be a comedian when it comes to things like that because its wrong.

    Ben

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    kinsuemei2, be sure to tell your friend to keep the cd's safe. Kerry was in florida two weeks ago, it's a shame you didn't hand them over then.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by kinsuemei2 (here)
    I am finding it hard to keep my anger in check with that last idiots post, but redtailhawk my friend, i wanted that material gone, and I told EVERYBODY that might have wanted to look at it, come to my doorstep and get it, they have, they are here in this forum, believe it or not, I could not care less what people think, at this point because the situation is insane. and clear my name? i don't see how it would have helped me? it might have helped heathers case a little, as she could have been duped, but holy hell people will still wonder about as they have passing off remarks and gestures, no my name would not be clear for a long time, but really the only four people I give a dam about know me, and who I am and what I represent, the rest of this is not important to me, now I have to deal with my experiences and look after what family I have left, and Concerned square.. your car crash remark was in bad taste, you have no idea whats going on with me, only one person in this forum does, and it's not Bill or Kerry, so please don't try to be a comedian when it comes to things like that because its wrong.

    Ben
    hello Ben
    The question lies, how do we discern truth from falsehood......I, like many, keep an open mind, but if the information is for helping Mankind then it could be positive and truthful....if it is for helping the Ego ,it is a falsehood...There are many strange things going on which we do not know about.....Therefore how do we discern , what you are saying is the truth?
    lol
    blue
    Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc...

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    "Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc... "

    Not speaking for Bill, but I would like to add that the way I read Bill's view was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education and a position in a government scientific program.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by perfectresonance (here)
    "Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc... "

    Not speaking for Bill, but I would like to add that the way I read Bill's view was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education and a position in a government scientific program.
    exactly,"Intellectual elitism" is one of these words that I find offensive. It is frequently used to express the conviction that academics, if there indeed was such a thing as "academic freedom," have an authority when we know many academics have been indoctrinated....
    quote:
    was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education ...maybe the person had more intuitive and innate intellect
    lol
    p.s I trust Bill.....good English grammar does not apply to all people all over the world....science can be done in any language

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by blue777 (here)
    hello Ben
    Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc...
    I agree with you blue777. Even educated people don't necessarly have great writing skills or a good grammar and spelling. Doesn't have anything to do with if the person is well educated, intelligent or working for gov.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by Kikine (here)
    I agree with you blue777. Even educated people don't necessarly have great writing skills or a good grammar and spelling. Doesn't have anything to do with if the person is well educated, intelligent or working for gov.
    Thank GOODNESS FOR THAT.......I believe there are super intellectual beings with disabilities....dyslexia etc

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by blue777 (here)
    Thank GOODNESS FOR THAT.......I believe there are super intellectual beings with disabilities....dyslexia etc
    Haha, yes blue77. And I don't think the governement or whatever "choose" their people depending on their grammar skills. I would think more depending on their knowledge, gifts, intelligence etc
    Even then, it is hard to define what 'intelligence' really is and who is or not.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by Kikine (here)
    Haha, yes blue77. And I don't think the governement or whatever "choose" their people depending on their grammar skills. I would think more depending on their knowledge, gifts, intelligence etc
    Even then, it is hard to define what 'intelligence' really is and who is or not.
    Winston Churchill could not spell at all...its not what you know it is who you know.
    lol
    blue

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    agreed loL
    I wouldnt stop at ''spelling and grammar" mistakes to know if I believe something or not. It is because people have learned that "Educated people" are supposed to be good at that. That influence them in what to think of people who have difficulties with grammar and languages. Someone will tend to trust less someone with grammar mistakes. We have to look beyond that. I don't know if this is the right word but I would say it looks like prejudices.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by Kikine (here)
    We have to look beyond that.
    Yes, we do!

    Here are the data points:

    1-8) See all the notes posted in yellow on http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf

    9) Same dyslexic errors (e.g. 'SOLIDER' for 'soldier') made by both Ben and Heather.

    10) Identical IP addresses of Ben and Heather.

    11) Ben's explanation that Heather dictated the material was only offered after the IP issue was spotted. If Heather dictated the material to Ben and was indeed a scientist or an MD, she certainly never checked it.

    12) One person we know phoned Ben at home to speak to Heather personally. She was told "Heather had just left the country by boat".

    13) Heather was reported dead in Germany in a traffic accident. Then she turned up in Strasbourg. That's 90 miles from where I was at the time, and so I offered to meet. That was the last anyone heard of her. There is absolutely no evidence that she was a real person. (MD registration/education records? Social Security number? Any biographical information at all...?)

    14) Ben handed over 30 CDs of Heather's - with claimed authentic blockbuster scientific data on them - to an un-named friend.... but forgot to make copies for himself. So all that priceless material (like Heather!) is no longer available.

    15) In the interview, Ben agreed to Kerry's prompt of the MERCK connection... although last summer we had been given Merck, which is a pharmaceutical company, as a name in connection with an entirely unrelated issue, by an entirely unrelated whistleblower: Kerry had accidentally got the name confused with another subject of investigation. So why did Ben agree to Kerry's suggestion?

    16) (Have I forgotten anything? There may be more still...)

    So: I gently propose that there are quite a lot of issues beyond Heather not being able to write (or dictate) very well. Occam's Razor may help us reach a conclusion.

    Very best wishes, Bill
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 15th April 2010 at 14:51.

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    yeah, but you arent looking beyond that... whatever Bill im not trying to change your mind. You already made it clear you didnt believe it. Thats fine with me, its your choice. But im staying open minded and ill continue looking BEYOND that ...lol so nevermind. have a nice day.

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    Project Camelot Founder Kerry Cassidy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Hi, All:

    I received this interesting e-mail below from a correspondent in Canada overnight. I can make no comment on it as I have no way of knowing whether the information he shared is true.

    What I will comment on, again, is that whoever sourced the material in the Heather PDF - whether or not it was Ben taking dictation on his own computer from someone whose story he believed, and who was staying at his house - was certainly no Black Ops scientist, let alone an MD.

    There are a lot of crazy stories out there. Some of the crazy stories are true. But in my strong personal opinion, this one is not. Enough already.
    FROM MY BLOG POST OF TODAY, APRIL 16, 2010

    On Protecting Sources and Confidentiality

    This statement has been written response to the recent actions of Bill Ryan and speaking to the core reason for the split within Camelot and why the building of the portal became necessary.

    I have been silent until now and have not spoken out publicly at any length due to my desire to preserve the good standing and credibility of Project Camelot. However, I can no longer remain silent due to the statement made by Bill Ryan on his site regarding what he considers to be a "takedown" of Camelot. The only takedown has been the complete and total responsibility of myself and Bill Ryan. We no longer agree on core values or perceptions and have not for over 1 and 1/2 years... therefore we have archived the Camelot site into what is now known as the Camelot Library.

    I am concerned that the good name and integrity of Project Camelot has been dealt a serious blow by the actions of Bill Ryan. As many of you know, the split within Camelot has become the object of much internet gossip...

    If one keeps in mind that our credibility and integrity are the main and integral parts of what our name stands for in the world that we inhabit as, in essence, investigative journalists into the nature of reality and revealing the truth beneath the Matrix... then our reputation is all we have to allow us to continue to pursue our mission and maintain our standing in the internet community.

    Note: This standing was recently brought into question when Bill Ryan came forward to debunk and out two whistleblowers. He did this, in spite of the fact that both these whistleblowers came to Camelot in trust and in secrecy, placing themselves at the mercy of Camelot with the complete belief that Project Camelot was an organization of integrity and would fully honor any secrecy in their dealings with those individuals as clearly stated in the mission statement on our website.

    Unfortunately, Bill Ryan recently decided that the statement of confidentiality and secrecy was to be amended to say in essence "if I, Bill Ryan, decide subsequently, that the story told to us in confidence is false or misleading I will then take it upon myself to out the witness and thereby reveal our "source" to the world, putting their lives and the lives of their loved ones in danger, as well as violating the clear implied and expressed agreement that we have established in writing previously with them and to the world...."

    Along these lines, I submit the following image from the Wikileaks.org website of their now famous release of the videotape of collateral murder by U.S. forces in Iraq during which two journalists were also killed. This statement -- from that video states the CORE principle by which they operate. This is a nod to them and their integrity. I am sad to say this cannot any longer be the claim of Project Camelot...

    To be clear, they state "Wikileaks exists to help you safely reveal important material to the world. We have an unbroken record in protecting confidential sources."

    IMAGE

    At question is our reputation which will precede us wherever we go in the future with regard to Project Camelot and therefore we have been left with the decision as to how we intend to operate going forward. The Portal was built to allow for this difference in our styles and approaches to whistleblowers and confidential testimony. I can state here, unequivocally, that I do honor confidentiality and will continue to pledge to protect my sources against all odds regardless of whether they be external or internal to Camelot.

    At the same time, I want to state here that the recent statements of Bill Ryan with regard to Illuminati takeover of Camelot are not only completely unfounded but a subterfuge to cover gross errors in judgment that led him to cast 2 whistleblowers to the dogs... in severe disregard of his pledge to uphold the mission of Camelot and in violation of all that Project Camelot claims to stand for.

    After repeated requests to Bill Ryan that he reconsider his position and views, I was left with no recourse but to publish this statement.

    While he will needless to say, go to great lengths to show the world that one was an unbalanced hoaxer and the other is, he believes, acting as an agent of the Illuminati in a dark plot to take down Camelot, neither is true. Camelot is operating as before with the exception that we have reached the point where working together has become impossible due to our differences in views and interpretations of what it means to have integrity.

    Sincerely,

    Kerry Lynn Cassidy
    Co-Founder, Project Camelot
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 15th April 2010 at 17:49. Reason: fixed quote formatting
    ..."if you build it they will come"
    Field of Dreams

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    Quote Posted by Kikine (here)
    yeah, but you arent looking beyond that... whatever Bill im not trying to change your mind. You already made it clear you didnt believe it. Thats fine with me, its your choice. But im staying open minded and ill continue looking BEYOND that ...lol so nevermind. have a nice day.
    So if you look beyond that, what do you see ?



    Kerry, nothing new from you....


    .

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    Default Re: The Heather Material

    yet again Kerry I want to thank you, your words are heartfelt and you don't back down from anything or anybody, in regards to Bill, Bill you either don't read all the information, probably because you don't deem it worth your time, first off if you think that I am unbalanced, well this coming from a man who also saw grays, and in fact dated a possible non human, none of us that I know have, have ever demanded that you prove this? and we hold you at a certain level of RESPECT, now you also throw words like "out of a bad Sci Fi novel" and even Cyber dyne, and again not many people that I know of asked you about that...to my knowledge
    Look the point id from my side and others that have come to me in support I think your quest for the truth has blinded you to certain aspects of things, you’re so dam busy, let me ask you when you’re throwing a guy and his family under the bus as you did, you had no thoughts for them, or how this might affect somebody, the TRUTH of that is you don't care.
    Now let us look at this list shall we as you want to look beyond this for the last time to address this then cancel my account because this issue is dead in my heart and my mind, I don’t care what she does and yeah were still calling her heather that’s not her name of course

    Here are the data points:

    1-8) See all the notes posted in yellow on http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf
    That’s been explained right? And 9 falls in to that category, upon the dictation for most of it. Not all though.

    10) Identical IP addresses of Ben and Heather.
    Ok this is again she could be at the end of the complex and STILL have the IP THEY SHARE IPS AGAIN, how many times do I have to state this. Guess what if tow people live in the same house and they want a his or hers account they get banned for cloning great! This is of no relevance, because I am no idiot on computers I could have used a dam proxy and made it look like I was in Bolivia if I wanted, the only way to be sure is to find the MAC address that’s physical address , IP addresses these days are farmed out like fish and mean very little.

    11) Ben's explanation that Heather dictated the material was only offered after the IP issue was spotted. If Heather dictated the material to Ben and was indeed a scientist or an MD, she certainly never checked it.
    She refused to come near a computer, she was unbalanced that much is certain, she acted very much like Robert E Howard the whole time she was here, and look him up if you don’t know who he is.

    12) One person we know phoned Ben at home to speak to Heather personally. She was told "Heather had just left the country by boat".
    Nobody phoned me at home, if your referring to somebody then they texted on skype me, nobody has my home phone number NOBODY, its little facts that are blatantly not true that piss me off too, somebody lied to you Bill

    13) Heather was reported dead in Germany in a traffic accident. Then she turned up in Strasbourg. That's 90 miles from where I was at the time, and so I offered to meet. That was the last anyone heard of her. There is absolutely no evidence that she was a real person. (MD registration/education records? Social Security number? Any biographical information at all...?)

    Of course look at her real name then follow that paper trail she attended winter park elementary, she then went on to Robert E Lee middle school, and then switched between Winter Park High school and had her last year at Edgewater High, she left school and went straight into the military, you know it’s unfortunate that you never talked to me one on one I might have suggested that you CALL some of her family in the area, but still why I have to prove every single thing only serves to further piss me off, she did not trust her family, as they are all military. Let’s see oh yeah the mountain of pictures my then wife and I took of the supposed building where Heather worked, now its 2010 and a abandoned building is stood in the middle of a heavily developed rural setting, I have video and picture for those who want to see, incidentally when I posted the videos, my YouTube page was closed after three years of work on it.
    And of course call the manager of the motel AGAIN nobody bothered to even ask for his number??? So you did not want the truth, because its easier to dam a person than help them right? Right? Must be a yes in this case. and what you want me to email you a social? seriously? you want me to give you another persons social beyond what she may or may not have been?

    Of course people have heard from heather, just not you, seriously do you think she would contact you? No she won’t even contact me, I had to ask people how she is doing, now I thought that I just don’t care about anybody anymore, this has tested my faith in people, you Bill have made me question myself and who I am, even my own sanity and I know who I am, I know what I am, and I can look at myself in the mirror and say, I am person that if you come to me for help, I will help you, no matter what the cost. If she turned up on my doorstep and needed my help because she was alone, I have to help her, or anybody else in that situation it's my nature, would I make the same mistakes no, but would I help yes, and somebody very dear to me has shown me how important everybody is in this world, nobody is elite in anyway and were all special.

    14) Ben handed over 30 CDs of Heather's - with claimed authentic blockbuster scientific data on them - to an un-named friend.... but forgot to make copies for himself. So all that priceless material (like Heather!) is no longer available.
    Well Bill you ought to know how valuable you think it is you debunked it, and yes my friend is un-named upon request, because god knows how well you would treat them eh?

    15) In the interview, Ben agreed to Kerry's prompt of the MERCK connection... although last summer we had been given Merck, which is a pharmaceutical company, as a name in connection with an entirely unrelated issue, by an entirely unrelated whistle blower: Kerry had accidentally got the name confused with another subject of investigation. So why did Ben agree to Kerry's suggestion?

    Well of course Merck deals with military operations and still does, perhaps that might be the only true thing in the document maybe, I don’t know and right now I don’t care but lest look at Merck and what they do such as George W. Merck, who oversaw America's germ-warfare research at Fort Detrick? Yes no? Perhaps so? Well lets assume they are only guilty of Vioxx and god forbid anything else, OH YES

    Richard T. Clark for one, a lieutenant in the army for two years of service? Then his service career ends yet he still is listed as active duty until 1999, and he left the army in 1972, No nothing shady about that, and of course serving aborted fetal matter into a soup for vaccines is completely ethical! Everybody does it these days, only Merck did it first. Don’t get me started on what I do know it might just surprise you

    16) (Have I forgotten anything? There may be more still...)
    I don’t know keep looking, sure you’ll find something

    So: I gently propose that there are quite a lot of issues beyond Heather not being able to write (or dictate) very well. Occam's Razor may help us reach a conclusion.

    Yeah throw in a Rorschach test whilst your at it why not, scientific logic is ok when you’re looking at science, but its only able to work if you look at every angle and remain objective, so whilst this every well might work for most in your case Bill you are compromised in your assumptions, the FACT is you don’t like me, you don’t believe me, nothing will sway what you believe, even if it stood before you, I could literally now hand deliver the Cds and heather in a frock and you would reason out some way that it’s not true.

    Now at the end of all this it’s still your call, the moderators of Avalon asked questions and corresponded with me and I did my best to help them, I find it amazing that every body that KNOWS me only one person came to me and said this is pushing the limits of what I can believe so talk to me, so whilst in a sea of sharks I feel like a sea-lion, but I have other sea-lions around me, am I crazy? the human species is fundamentally insane at different levels so were all crazy now and again.


    Now perhaps I have been unfair to Bill here, but the mount of people pushing me is immense and when I push back, you usually know you have been pushed, I have respect for Bill and his work, I respect his opinion, and I can not change it,
    But in regards to you bill I want you to remember this section from shake spear.

    Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
    I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
    The evil that men do lives after them;
    The good is oft interred with their bones;
    So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
    Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
    If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
    And grievously hath Caesar answered it.
    Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest -
    For Brutus is an honorable man;
    So are they all, all honorable men -
    Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.
    He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
    But Brutus says he was ambitious;
    And Brutus is an honorable man.

    I hope people can relax on this issue a little bit, either make an opinion or let it die, more important things are coming and if your to busy on this you might miss something important so keep your heads up and eyes open.
    Ben

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