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Thread: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

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    Default Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Space X

    Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Published 27th September 2016 / Recorded 27th September 2016 @ International Astronaut Congress, Guadalajara, Mexico

    Space X founder & CEO Elon Musk discusses the long term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent self sustaining presence on Mars,
    This technical presentation focuses on potential architectures for sustaining humans on the red planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years to come.

    Last edited by Star Tsar; 28th September 2016 at 11:14.
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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Mars Boondoggle
    . . .
    Don’t mistake my dislike for the proposed Mars mission as a stand against space exploration. A manned mission to Mars is a boondoggle and only good for propaganda.

    The fact that it takes so much fuel / resources to climb out of a gravity well, that it makes no sense to “crawl down another one.” We should be incrementally building outer space infrastructure, as in robust orbital stations, complete with facilities to generate 1G for long term occupation.

    Why Aren’t We Colonizing Outer Space?

    Under current government dominated space operations, it is reasonable to expect hardly any progress. That is not the fault of the proposal nor of the engineering. There is no reason for terrestrial governments to underwrite orbital colonies. And they run away from any hint of autonomous space colonies that by their very nature would cease to be subjects of a government millions of miles distant - and possibly even decades* apart.
    (*Using the Interplanetary Transport Network, “surfing gravity” takes little or no fuel, but is slow.)

    We must have private enterprise in outer space, not the government.

    How Do We “Afford” Space Colonization?

    The key point is not to use humans in space to build the requisite vessels, processed minerals and colonies. Instead, use autonomous, self replicating robotic fabricators "seeded" across the solar system. There’s a fusion reactor nearby; 24/7. There’s plenty of raw material - every element, in fact. As these “Queen Ants” geometrically multiply and incrementally build bigger tools and machines, they will fulfill the need for processed materials, hulls, storage tanks, machinery and space vessels.

    Once a colony is completed, and parked into orbit near Earth - then launch humans, and other biomass (seeds and fertilized ova). Establish habitats. Once staffed and commissioned, then "surf gravity" to a new orbit, and repeat the process with a new colony. There’s plenty of space in outer space, resources, and power - for at least another 5000 years or more.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_colonization
    http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/
    http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/Basics/wwwwh.html#why
    “The key advantage of space settlements is the ability to build new land, rather than take it from someone else. This allows a huge expansion of humanity without war or destruction of Earth's biosphere. The asteroids alone provide enough material to make new orbital land hundreds of times greater than the surface of the Earth, divided into millions of colonies. This land can easily support trillions of people.”
    Last edited by ozmirage; 28th September 2016 at 09:49.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    When trying to sell land to colonizers, or proposing such to people, you have to wrap the thing in colors and shapes they can not just understand, but actually make it to.

    Elon is proposing to drop the costs by a magnitude of 5. Which is not just possible, but real. His goal, is attainable. His math is correct. The science is here, now.

    He is just about the only thing that can come 'round the back of this technological block and light an actual fuse in the ass of those who are hiding and holding high level technology from us. Every day Elon moves forward is another day that those breakaway groups have less rope and less room to hide.

    If you are trying to break down the door of what is holding back humanity, don't just knock on the front door and the windows, circle round the back and beat on the back door as well. Remove all possible avenues of denial and all possible potential blocks..... with a real and actual position that produces results... that cannot be toppled, twisted away, or denied.

    For human value systems the goal must be solidly in the given single lifetime. Otherwise the overall human contribution will be too low for the effort to be viable. People invest in families as they want their children to grow up. It's part of our natural wiring which forms our thinking process.

    To speak on orbital platforms and whatnot, before mars..... is to do things reasonable, in many ways, but there are a few problems with that.

    Heavy cargoes of materiel and also asteroids that have been moved into position, and so on, are all not as visceral and direct as what Elon is proposing, and also not as close in time, nor within the realm of human logic concerning government allowance of proximity of ELE (Extinction Level Event) type weapons, ELE devices such as human controlled asteroids in close proximity to the earth. Basically... that sort of thinking re-complicates the emergent clarity of Elon's directions. It pushes space further away again, just when clarity and act are converging.

    In simplified logic, logic which works with the narrow constraints of how humans as a group think, Elon's plan of action fits what is possible and likely. He is the only person who is making it real at this time and is not offering platitudes and crap that would be waved in front of you.... until you lose interest and go away.

    We don't care about which corner of the house of the enemy starts burning, as long as the god damn thing is lit and burning. No one else is making any part of this thing ignite in a real way, with motions and acts that humans can believe in and see happening.

    And that is the part that is to be pursued -- the thing that works in a real world system, through all the real world hurdles. The closer it comes to reality, the more energy and steam it gathers, the more likely all the other associated potentials...become. Elon is committed, he's developing the technologies, for real, you can see them coming into shape in front of you, right now, today. he's doing the work, for real. In that, he makes all the other potentials real. Ideas and invention are great but is is hardware and infrastructure that makes things real and that takes effort and time, and Elon has all those critical components in the game, today, now.

    People on mars brings orbital stations closer to reality in the now. Pursuing orbital platforms and whatnot today, and ignoring mars...reinvigorates and expands complexities that push space much further away from the now. It really is that simple.

    As well, note that Elon is concerned about human beings becoming multi-planet, as a safeguard. The base reason he speaks of on this subject, every time he opens his mouth when publicly speaking on space. It is the very first thing out of his mouth in the video above. It's impossible to miss, unless a person is not listening and not using their head. Ie, the animal produces offspring. The cell divides. The bottom most rung of 'life' as we understand it. The threats he sees to stopping, breaking, or preventing such endeavor, are real. Every day he gets closer to his goal is another step toward overall human viability. He's not wrong.

    Basically, all verbose and undeveloped proposals that are not what Elon is doing, are "push it back another 20 years, push it back another 20 years, push it back another 20 years"... and are all.....whether you see it or not... weapons of denial.

    We are moving into electric cars, because of Elon. Never forget that. when Elon started Tesla, there was nothing. He, at that time, called the hydrogen car promise 'liedrogen', as it was a lie.... a lie that was always pushed over the horizon into being a dream we were always walking toward but never achieving (the 'oil-war-oligarchy-black ops-black technology' block).

    He forced it -this open public face of real overall human change for the overall group- ...though a plan, action, and will, and the ability to adapt through the issues and problems that arose that blocked him, and the ability to gather similar thinking people around him, in order to get that done. To help create the force of nature that is becoming electric cars and an energy industry that is changing.

    Elon's path through the complex scenario is the one that worked, in igniting the forces and actions that we required. As he has said repeatedly, it really does not matter what happens to Tesla, as long as the rest of it becomes real. Tesla must push on in the face of all adversity, so as to be the poster child for change, in any way it can. How much further away would the viability of a new energy economy be right now, if Elon had not pushed things forward? 10 years? 20 years? How many millions of lives and species and environments did Elon help save, regarding the eventual outcome..when he began down that road? Where would things be right now if he had not excited the 'change fervor' and helped (by action) incite functional parallel directions, in others? Monkeys see..and monkeys do.... we needed a poster-child and he became it ---as he saw the need for it. Elon has provided and is providing an all important ignition and initiation of act and reality.

    How much do you want space and an open functional human future, and a future for the species and environment of earth? Today, tomorrow, 20 years from now, 50 years from now?

    How dead and dying will the earth and it's issues be, in the meantime? How do we get to the technologies required to fix the earth, soon enough in time, to be able to fix this mess? We are in the opening stages of the earth's 6th extinction level event.

    Help him, or die on an extinction level vine in an obscure corner of a downturned and denied future. That's the shape of things at this time, and I don't see it changing any time soon.
    Last edited by Carmody; 28th September 2016 at 16:19.
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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Hello Everyone:

    Seems like we have alot of people on the band wagon to settle Mars etc. lately.
    The problem I see with this is we get to Mars set up a permanent colony and an asteroid takes it out OR many other catastrophes.

    Why is it so important to put people on Mars or any other rock? Seems like it's for profit and not much else.

    I understand we have the technology BUT why not use that technology to make earth the safest planet and then once this is completed why not travel the universe....

    Just sayin....
    chancy

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Why is it so important to put people on Mars or any other rock? Seems like it's for profit and not much else.
    It is important for the survival of the human species.

    "The Big Banging Theory"
    YEAR . . . Population . . Doubling rate (years)
    2014 . . . 7.200E+09 . . . . 50 . . . . . . . . 60 . . . . . . . . . . 70
    Future . . . Yrs. Diff. . . . Population
    2050 . . . . 36 . . . . . . . . 1.186E+10 . . 1.091E+10 . . 1.028E+10
    2100 . . . . 86 . . . . . . . . 2.372E+10 . . 1.945E+10 . . 1.687E+10
    2200 . . . . 186 . . . . . . . 9.488E+10 . . 6.173E+10 . . 4.542E+10
    2300 . . . . 286 . . . . . . . 3.795E+11 . . 1.960E+11 . . 1.223E+11
    2400 . . . . 386 . . . . . . . 1.518E+12 . . 6.222E+11 . . 3.291E+11
    2500 . . . . 486 . . . . . . . 6.072E+12 . . 1.975E+12 . . 8.858E+11
    3000 . . . . 986 . . . . . . . 6.218E+15 . . 6.372E+14 . . 1.252E+14
    4000 . . . . 1986 . . . . . . 6.520E+21 . . 6.629E+19 . . 2.500E+18
    5000 . . . . 2986 . . . . . . 6.837E+27 . . 6.896E+24 . . 4.994E+22
    6000 . . . . 3986 . . . . . . 7.169E+33 . . 7.174E+29 . . 9.973E+26

    Just think - if population doubling rate remains constant at 50 years, humanity may pass 6.520 E+21 in 4000 A.D.
    That's 6.52 Sextillion people. Woo-hoo.
    (We’re going to need quite a number of giant space habitats in orbit around Sol.)
    . . .

    I'd rather we expand into outer space than decimate the population on a resource depleted planet.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Hasn't this all happened already with military bases there on Mars? Further, should we believe the testimony of the whistleblowers ( forgive me, Bill may have interviewed them) that said they had the technology to "walk thru a doorway" and arrive at Mars?
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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Why is it so important to put people on Mars or any other rock? Seems like it's for profit and not much else.
    It is important for the survival of the human species.

    "The Big Banging Theory"
    YEAR . . . Population . . Doubling rate (years)
    2014 . . . 7.200E+09 . . . . 50 . . . . . . . . 60 . . . . . . . . . . 70
    Future . . . Yrs. Diff. . . . Population
    2050 . . . . 36 . . . . . . . . 1.186E+10 . . 1.091E+10 . . 1.028E+10
    2100 . . . . 86 . . . . . . . . 2.372E+10 . . 1.945E+10 . . 1.687E+10
    2200 . . . . 186 . . . . . . . 9.488E+10 . . 6.173E+10 . . 4.542E+10
    2300 . . . . 286 . . . . . . . 3.795E+11 . . 1.960E+11 . . 1.223E+11
    2400 . . . . 386 . . . . . . . 1.518E+12 . . 6.222E+11 . . 3.291E+11
    2500 . . . . 486 . . . . . . . 6.072E+12 . . 1.975E+12 . . 8.858E+11
    3000 . . . . 986 . . . . . . . 6.218E+15 . . 6.372E+14 . . 1.252E+14
    4000 . . . . 1986 . . . . . . 6.520E+21 . . 6.629E+19 . . 2.500E+18
    5000 . . . . 2986 . . . . . . 6.837E+27 . . 6.896E+24 . . 4.994E+22
    6000 . . . . 3986 . . . . . . 7.169E+33 . . 7.174E+29 . . 9.973E+26

    Just think - if population doubling rate remains constant at 50 years, humanity may pass 6.520 E+21 in 4000 A.D.
    That's 6.52 Sextillion people. Woo-hoo.
    (We’re going to need quite a number of giant space habitats in orbit around Sol.)
    . . .

    I'd rather we expand into outer space than decimate the population on a resource depleted planet.
    Hello Ozmirage:
    With all the wars going on and other devious ways to reduce population we are not going to get to the figures you are posting.
    It's a grand idea but won't happen.
    chancy

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Hello Everyone:
    The only thing I see if publicity for Elon Musk and Hawking. It keeps them in the news and high profile.
    They're not the only ones using technology to keep in our faces.
    Look at the royal family in England. Now they're having a wonderul time in Canada at Canadians expense. Why not pay their own way for them and there followers with them?
    Since we can already take ET home according to the former leader of skunk works why not use that technology instead of wasting more money on rockets etc.
    IF people want to move to another rock why not take them there in style and safety instead of using the slow boat to another home?

    Another idea where some people get rich and laugh at us that pay.
    Time we used what we really have in technology and quit financing everything such as moving to mars.
    We the people who have already paid more than enough....
    chancy

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Why is it so important to put people on Mars or any other rock? Seems like it's for profit and not much else.
    It is important for the survival of the human species.

    "The Big Banging Theory"
    YEAR . . . Population . . Doubling rate (years)
    2014 . . . 7.200E+09 . . . . 50 . . . . . . . . 60 . . . . . . . . . . 70
    Future . . . Yrs. Diff. . . . Population
    2050 . . . . 36 . . . . . . . . 1.186E+10 . . 1.091E+10 . . 1.028E+10
    2100 . . . . 86 . . . . . . . . 2.372E+10 . . 1.945E+10 . . 1.687E+10
    2200 . . . . 186 . . . . . . . 9.488E+10 . . 6.173E+10 . . 4.542E+10
    2300 . . . . 286 . . . . . . . 3.795E+11 . . 1.960E+11 . . 1.223E+11
    2400 . . . . 386 . . . . . . . 1.518E+12 . . 6.222E+11 . . 3.291E+11
    2500 . . . . 486 . . . . . . . 6.072E+12 . . 1.975E+12 . . 8.858E+11
    3000 . . . . 986 . . . . . . . 6.218E+15 . . 6.372E+14 . . 1.252E+14
    4000 . . . . 1986 . . . . . . 6.520E+21 . . 6.629E+19 . . 2.500E+18
    5000 . . . . 2986 . . . . . . 6.837E+27 . . 6.896E+24 . . 4.994E+22
    6000 . . . . 3986 . . . . . . 7.169E+33 . . 7.174E+29 . . 9.973E+26

    Just think - if population doubling rate remains constant at 50 years, humanity may pass 6.520 E+21 in 4000 A.D.
    That's 6.52 Sextillion people. Woo-hoo.
    (We’re going to need quite a number of giant space habitats in orbit around Sol.)
    . . .

    I'd rather we expand into outer space than decimate the population on a resource depleted planet.
    Hello Ozmirage:
    With all the wars going on and other devious ways to reduce population we are not going to get to the figures you are posting.
    It's a grand idea but won't happen.
    chancy
    BioWar is on going.
    Despite all the shooting wars going on, some populations are growing stupendously.
    They are generally in non-socialist countries, though.

    Europe has 19 of the 20 "oldest" countries, where the elderly population is booming while the birthrate is tanking.

    Whereas in many Muslim countries, the birthrates are far higher. They intend that their descendants inherit YOUR lands.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_birth_rate

    Top Three:
    Niger, Mali, and Uganda, which have a 45-46%
    Niger : 46.12% . . . ranked #1. . . 16 yr doubling rate
    (Rich) Kuwait : 20.26% . . . . ranked: 84th
    (Poor) India : 19.89% . . . . ranked : 86th. . 36 yr doubling rate
    (Poor) Mexico : 19.02% . . . . ranked: 91st . . 38 yr doubling rate
    (Rich) Saudi Arabia : 18.78% . . . ranked: 96th
    World Average : 19.4% . . . . . . . . 37 yr doubling rate
    USA: 13.42% . . . . ranked: 150th . . . 53 yr doubling rate
    United Kingdom : 12.22% . . . ranked: 160th
    Sweden: 11.92% . . . ranked: 167th . . . 60 yr doubling rate
    Russia: 11.87% . . . ranked:168th
    (Happy) Denmark : 10.22% . . . ranked: 190th
    (Poor) Cuba : 9.90% . . . ranked :195th
    Bottom Three (nations):
    Germany: 8.42% . . . ranked: 219th 85yr doubling rate
    South Korea: 8.26% . . . ranked: 220th
    Japan: 8.07% . . . ranked: 222th

    Socialist countries may be depopulating, but the rest of the world is poised to export their surplus population.
    That's going to cause no end of conflict.

    I prefer that we expand into outer space, and avoid genocide.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 28th September 2016 at 19:33.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Hello Ozmirage:
    Seems that you are worrying too much about muslims taking "YOUR lands/"
    "Whereas in many Muslim countries, the birthrates are far higher. They intend that their descendants inherit YOUR lands."

    I definitely don't have to worry about anyone taking my lands since governments are doing that for us in the west. I have no problems with anyone or any nationality immigrating to as you put it " YOUR lands"
    The problem I have is when immigration is swayed and laws are broken by the very governments who say there's problems.
    Case in point. I met with Jason Kenney who was the immigration minister at the time. I had to go to a fund raiser he had where we had to listen to thus useless fellow. He stated about 3 times that he was bringing in 80% of the immigrants from the middle east. Yes, it could have been an error but he said it at least 3 times for everyone to make sure they got it.
    So when you say "Whereas in many Muslim countries, the birthrates are far higher. They intend that their descendants inherit YOUR lands."
    Muslims are not doing this it's governments for whatever reason I have no idea.

    I'm not worried about population growth. I'm worried that the focus is on new worlds and not the one we live on now. Seems like too many smart people are dreaming about the stars and not worrying about our little planet called earth.
    chancy

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    This thread is NOT designed for anti earth groups comments views or opinions any post like this the mods will be asked to delete thankyou
    I for one will join in with anyone, I don't care what color you are as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this Earth - Malcolm X / Tsar Of The Star

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    I thought this was fairly apparent, but perhaps it needs to be restated.

    Elon Musk is a dancing puppet on the strings of our collective controllers - a veritable mouthpiece for trans-humanist propaganda and false disclosure.

    Listen to hear what level of lie they are currently selling - be wary to take anything on board.

    With regards to all those present,
    Art.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by Star Tsar (here)
    This thread is NOT designed for anti earth groups comments views or opinions any post like this the mods will be asked to delete thankyou
    In the first few minutes of the talk Elon said that if we stay on Earth there would be an exctinction level event. Debating widespread immigration is on topic, as I see it. It's related to our supposedly creaking social infrastructure, which may or may not be true.

    If these space-faring companies were sincere/competent, you'd think the first thing they'd do was to publicly release cures for cancer and heart disease. That should be a no-brainer for any genuinely connected group. If humans went to Mars, they'd have to be in perfect health. So a logical step one would be to release information that could improve the general health of the population. But for all the PHD brainpower in Silicon Valley, they often miss low-hanging fruit. This makes me wary, to say the least.

    Elon has made two Earth-changing contributions to the human race, in the form of Paypal and Tesla motors. These companies form the backbone of a new financial system, and clean energy grid. So I'm grateful for his hard work. But I can't help but think he's being misled here. I doubt anything will come of this.

    A compromise:

    If we're going to build a self-sustaining colony on Mars, we'd need to prove the concept on Earth first, right?

    So why not design a self-sustaining modular town, full of hydroponic gardens, solar panels, abundant water filters, high tech health care? We can do that right now with off-the-shelf public domain technology. Irrespective of Earth/Mars difference regarding gravity and sunlight, the general principles of human sustenance remain the same.

    Where are people going to live when they get to the Red Planet? Will it be like Elysium, or Total Recall? If SpaceX do not have a publicly accesible experiment to design a high-tech future town which works on Earth, the whole enterprise is a dangling carrot. I strongly hope I'm proved wrong. Elon Musk seems like someone who has enough skill to tightrope-walk between the various factions. We shall see.
    Last edited by Daozen; 29th September 2016 at 01:18.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    I concur somewhat Doazen however immigration can be discussed without pinpointing there are enough threads on Avalon at present choc full with that kind of stuff of late this thread was not designed to and will not be one of them!
    I for one will join in with anyone, I don't care what color you are as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this Earth - Malcolm X / Tsar Of The Star

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Humans on Mars will quickly evolve into Martians. The question is: where do we go next?

    Michio Kaku: The Cheapest Way to Terraform Mars

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    When I saw the sentence "purchase land on Mars" I thought purchase it from who? Elon Musk? Do we really want to start a capitalist hierarchical structure over there now? According to testimonies from people like Randy Cramer we might be "buying" land from the indigenous Martians already there, if they go for it that is.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Atlas (here)
    Humans on Mars will quickly evolve into Martians. The question is: where do we go next?

    Michio Kaku: The Cheapest Way to Terraform Mars
    Nuking Mars
    May not go over so well

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    So when you say "Whereas in many Muslim countries, the birthrates are far higher. They intend that their descendants inherit YOUR lands."
    Muslims are not doing this it's governments for whatever reason I have no idea.
    "We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."
    - - - Moammar Qaddafi
    It's not government, unless you consider Shari'ah law a government. It's Islam against the world. Been going on for 1400 years.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    So when you say "Whereas in many Muslim countries, the birthrates are far higher. They intend that their descendants inherit YOUR lands."
    Muslims are not doing this it's governments for whatever reason I have no idea.
    "We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."


    - - - Moammar Qaddafi
    It's not government, unless you consider Shari'ah law a government. It's Islam against the world. Been going on for 1400 years.
    Ozmirage the topic is Mars not Islam please....
    Last edited by Star Tsar; 29th September 2016 at 03:26.
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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by Daozen (here)
    Elon has made two Earth-changing contributions to the human race, in the form of [1] Paypal and [2] Tesla motors. These companies form the backbone of a new financial system, and clean energy grid.
    I disagree.
    [1] Paypal isn't a "new" financial system - just a means to transfer funny munny via the internet... for a hefty fee.
    [2] Tesla motors is never going to be a viable solution to the problem of "clean" transportation.
    Why?
    Simple Physics.
    http://www.brooklynrail.net/science_...ocomotion.html
    The most efficient form of land transport (barring a technological breakthrough) is still steel wheel on steel rail.
    . . .
    At the same constant speed, on level ground, drawing the same load, any steel wheeled railway vehicle already in motion, will use only 5% (1/20) of the energy consumed by any large pneumatic tire road vehicle already in motion. Upon starting and initial acceleration, any steel wheeled railway vehicle will only use 10% (1/10) of the energy demanded by any large pneumatic tire road vehicle.
    ...
    Modern electric traction motors can recover braking energy, thus improving energy efficiency even more.
    ...
    Steel wheel on steel rail is 20 times more energy efficient than rubber tire on pavement.
    ...
    For a fixed and finite energy budget, to move the MOST people and cargo, the winner is electric traction rail in all its forms.
    ...
    I stipulate that government meddling makes it almost impossible to dislodge the automobile / oil / pavement hegemony from dominating American transportation, but you cannot dismiss the law of Physics.
    Tesla Motors' electric vehicle only cuts out the "oil" from the equation. The electric vehicle is still very wasteful and expensive - no long term improvement whatsoever.
    ...
    Knowing this, one should question the efficacy of his other solutions.
    http://www.altenergystocks.com/archi..._corpse_1.html
    "It's time to kill the electric car, drive a stake through its heart and burn the corpse."
    Last edited by ozmirage; 29th September 2016 at 03:28.

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    Default Re: Elon Musk - Making Humanity A Multiplanetary Species

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    [...] without swords, without guns, without conquest [...]
    Mars was the most prominent of the military gods in the religion of the Roman army. (source)


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