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Thread: MONEY MADNESS (various split off ozmirage posts and replies thereto)

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    United States Avalon Member ozmirage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    His post was explaining why the US Dollar will lose value. [NO, I WAS NOT]
    ===
    I agree that the US Dollar will lose value, even under the mattress.
    I agree that gold/silver, vintage guitars, fine art, land, dehydrated foods, and ... toilet paper will probably hold their value better.
    A "dollar bill" (IOU) is not a dollar (coin). A dollar (coin) is still worth its face value.

    In 1933, Congress repudiated redeeming their IOUs with real money. (See: House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933, and the Gold Reserve Act of 1934)
    "Dollar bills" have ZERO value. They are worthless securities.

    They only have legal tender status because obligated parties cannot object to their tender.

    Pursuant to 12 USC Sec. 411, the USGOV is an obligated party and must accept 'their' notes in lieu of lawful money (gold or silver coin).

    Can you guess how the rest of America became obligated parties on the "bad checks" kited by CONgress?
    It involves enrolling into a certain program and accepting A NUMBER.

    Needless to say, such a gigantic fraud will inevitably collapse the country, at which time "gold/silver, vintage guitars, fine art, land, dehydrated foods, and toilet paper" may have more value than "dollar bills," but when dealing with money mad people you never can tell.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 4th August 2016 at 10:26.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Positive Vibe Merchant (here)
    Am I correct in assuming that in the myriad of terms and conditions of bank accounts, the bank can call for any debts at any time to be paid within a specific time frame?

    If so, and they are all bankrupt, how is this going to happen? They seize everyone's property then on sell it to shift the debt?
    DUE ON DEMAND
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/demand-clause/
    Demand clause is a provision in a note that allows the lender to demand repayment of the balance in full for any reason. It allows the holder to compel full payment if the maker fails to meet an installment. A popular variation of the demand clause is the acceleration clause which allows the lender to exact full repayment of the loan any time any obligation on the agreement is violated. Demand clauses protect the mortgage lenders against rising rates of interest or demanding additional collateral under certain conditions such as bankruptcy, failure to pay taxes on mortgaged property.
    . . . .
    If / when all debts are called due on demand, the “system” will implode.
    Simple reason: Not enough money tokens (funny munny or real money) exist for all debtors to repay.
    Civil War will break out as debtors will defend against confiscation by creditors (if government aids them in their attempts).

    Ironically, usury has been denounced for "only" 3500 years, but billions embrace usury, despite the fact it is mathematically unsustainable and an abomination.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    His post was explaining why the US Dollar will lose value. [NO, I WAS NOT]
    A "dollar bill" (IOU) is not a dollar (coin). A dollar (coin) is still worth its face value.
    You write as if the only possible meaning of the term "US Dollar" in my words referred to a metal (gold, silver or base metal) dollar coin.

    That's a (perhaps deliberate) misreading of my words, in an apparent effort to "prove" that I was wrong.

    Obviously, there is presently another meaning for the term "US Dollar" ... words do take on multiple, sometimes conflicting, meanings over time.

    By US Dollar, I meant the unit of accounting, a major store of value, and the dominant medium of exchange, in the current US Petro-Narco-Dollar world monetary system. Almost all such US Dollars have no physical form in paper, gold, silver or base metal.

    Dogmatically force fitting some other model of how things supposedly or should work at present over what how things actually work obfuscates, rather than facilitates, a better understanding.

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  7. Link to Post #24
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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    His post was explaining why the US Dollar will lose value. [NO, I WAS NOT]
    A "dollar bill" (IOU) is not a dollar (coin). A dollar (coin) is still worth its face value.
    You write as if the only possible meaning of the term "US Dollar" in my words referred to a metal (gold, silver or base metal) dollar coin. [By law, that is the ONLY possible meaning.]

    That's a (perhaps deliberate) misreading of my words, in an apparent effort to "prove" that I was wrong.

    Obviously, there is presently another meaning for the term "US Dollar" ... words do take on multiple, sometimes conflicting, meanings over time. [No, there is not.]

    By US Dollar, I meant the unit of accounting, a major store of value, and the dominant medium of exchange, in the current US Petro-Narco-Dollar world monetary system. Almost all such US Dollars have no physical form in paper, gold, silver or base metal.

    Dogmatically force fitting some other model of how things supposedly or should work at present over what how things actually work obfuscates, rather than facilitates, a better understanding.
    You are wrong.
    The only LEGAL meaning of the term DOLLAR, is a coin, not paper currency.
    That billions of people assume otherwise is a victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry.

    P.S. FDR liberated all the gold money in 1933, and criminalized possession of lawful money by "free" Americans. Since silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1872, this effectively eliminated lawful money from circulation.

    Absent lawful money, few Americans can prove they pay debt, pursuant to the USCON. Therefore, practically every transaction is a privilege, subject to taxation and regulation. Absent lawful money, no one can prove they alienated title to private property. Everyone is presumed to be a bankrupt and pauper, needing permission (license) from the state to live, work, travel, operate a business, transmit, fly, drive, marry and or own a dog.

    The irony is that it's all done by consent of the governed. . . Yet few know how and when they gave consent.

    REFERENCE:
    "Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."

    "Eagles each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
    --- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792
    - - -
    Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
    The Congress shall have Power
    ...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
    ...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution
    No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...
    - - - -
    "Dollar bills"
    TITLE 12, USC sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
    " Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
    Since 1933, Congress has repudiated their promise to redeem their notes, making them worthless.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...al-tender.aspx
    " Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves..."
    The Great Confiscation: Gold ownership was illegal in the USA from 1933 to 1975
    http://goldcoin.org/numismatics/the-...3-to-1975/165/
    On March 6 of 1933, the President set in motion a chain of events that ended the international gold standard once and for all. First, he closed the nation’s banks and prohibited them from paying out or exporting gold coins and bullion, using emergency powers granted by the Trading with the Enemy Act that had been enacted during World War I.
    From 1933 forward, private possession and ownership of gold was illegal for U.S. citizens. Any refusal to return one’s gold was punishable by a fine of $10,000 and 10 years in prison.
    http://bestamericangold.com/confiscation/
    "The private ownership of gold is a privilege, not a right. Congress revoked the privilege of private ownership in 1933 ...."
    From the Communist manifesto: "In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

    Abolition occurred in 1933.
    __“The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of government, i.e. law, amounting to mere user; and user must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”
    — Senate Document No. 43, 73D Congress, 1st Session, entitled: “Contracts Payable in Gold”, by George Cyrus Thorpe, submitted to the senate: April 17, 1933
    Welcome to the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America, Comrade.
    This is how things really work in a socialist paradise.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 4th August 2016 at 20:05.
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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    His post was explaining why the US Dollar will lose value. [NO, I WAS NOT]
    A "dollar bill" (IOU) is not a dollar (coin). A dollar (coin) is still worth its face value.
    You write as if the only possible meaning of the term "US Dollar" in my words referred to a metal (gold, silver or base metal) dollar coin. [By law, that is the ONLY possible meaning.]
    You are wrong.
    The only LEGAL meaning of the term DOLLAR, is a coin, not paper currency.
    There are other, presently more relevant meanings, for the word "dollar".

    If you can't see that, then that's your choice to continue to insist on interpreting others words using your self-imposed definitions, or using your own choice to only consider whatever you take to be some LEGAL definition.

    Successful discourse does not work when one of the participants demands that words mean whatever they claim them to mean, in obvious disregard of how others might be using those words.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    His post was explaining why the US Dollar will lose value. [NO, I WAS NOT]
    A "dollar bill" (IOU) is not a dollar (coin). A dollar (coin) is still worth its face value.
    You write as if the only possible meaning of the term "US Dollar" in my words referred to a metal (gold, silver or base metal) dollar coin. [By law, that is the ONLY possible meaning.]
    You are wrong.
    The only LEGAL meaning of the term DOLLAR, is a coin, not paper currency.
    There are other, presently more relevant meanings, for the word "dollar".

    If you can't see that, then that's your choice to continue to insist on interpreting others words using your self-imposed definitions [LEGAL DEFINITION IS SELF IMPOSED?], or using your own choice to only consider whatever you take to be some LEGAL definition.

    Successful discourse does not work when one of the participants demands that words mean whatever they claim them to mean, in obvious disregard of how others might be using those words.
    Well, if the LAW says a dollar is a coin, and you obviously disregard the law, you're the one demanding that a dollar is what YOU CLAIM it to be.

    Having ruffled your feathers, please accept my humble apology.
    The intention was to clearly show how we're victims of the world's greatest propaganda ministry.

    Do NOT believe me - go to your county courthouse law library and read law for yourself.
    I am not infallible. I may have made a mistake. But I have yet to find one statute that CHANGED the definition of a unit dollar. Maybe you can find it.

    But if you'll bear with me - let us assume that what I post is correct, pursuant to the law on the books.

    The OP starts with the question: "Are the banks insolvent?"
    Answer: Yes -and- no.
    (Duh?)
    Yes, if you're referring to dollars.
    No, if you're referring to worthless repudiated debt instruments underwritten by 320 million 'Human resources' (via FICA), whose labor and property are pledged as collateral on the public debt, and as obligated parties, make those worthless notes into "legal tender."

    BUT if ever sufficient number of Americans WITHDRAW CONSENT from usury, socialism, and submission to the state, the lack of sufficient collateral and loss of obligated parties will cause the "dollar bill" to cease being legal tender. At that point, billionaires become zero-aires.

    The subsequent economic and civil unrest will trigger all sorts of flying excrement into spinning fan blades.

    Why is that a foregone conclusion?

    Facts we know:
    • The national debt is over $19 T. (see: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)
    • Pursuant to law, that computes to a sum of gold bullion stamped into coin. (950 billion ounces)
    • Dollar bills (Federal Reserve notes) are IOUs, and cannot pay the public debt - being part of said debt. (See Title 12 USC Sec. 411).
    • World wide supply of gold is estimated at 5.6 billion ounces
    [if coined, would amount to $112 billion dollars] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold)
    • Fort Knox Depository holds (allegedly) 147.2 million ounces
    [if coined, would amount to $2.9 billion dollars] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Kn...ion_Depository)
    To authorize more "dollar bills", Congress has to go deeper into debt. And to pay the interest on those "dollar bills", Congress has to go deeper into debt. (See: Title 12 USC sec. 411).

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET...T-2015-BUD.pdf
    ● 2015 Federal Deficit $312 billion (estimate)
    ● 2015 Debt Service $252 billion (estimate)

    Congress borrows MORE each year than it pays in interest on the debt. Congress is paying “old investors” with funds from “new investors.” That’s what Bernie Madoff went to prison for doing in the private sector. No “investor” will ever see his principal returned.

    And this insanity cannot be questioned, pursuant to clause 4, 14th amendment, USCON.
    “ The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned.”

    There it is. An impossible to repay public debt that CANNOT be questioned. Which explains why no Congress dare pass a balanced budget - which would end the necessary borrowing to authorize new 'dollar bills.'

    Methinks everyone should be concerned over LEGAL definitions, because ignorance of the law is no defense... especially against what is coming.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Well, if the LAW says a dollar is a coin, and you obviously disregard the law, you're the one demanding that a dollar is what YOU CLAIM it to be.
    You're saying what I write is wrong because it doesn't make sense using your definitions.

    I am not doing that to you. I understand and accept that you choose to mean something else, apparently involving pieces of metal, by the term "dollar."

    Forcing the words of other people to mean only what you say they mean makes useful discussion nearly impossible. Is that your intention?

    ===

    Also, when the US government says
    • I owe them so many dollars in taxes, or
    • agrees to send me so many dollars each money in retirement benefits, or
    • says it has a budget allocating so many dollars for this and that purpose, or
    • says it has so many dollars worth of debt, or
    • reports that the gross domestic product (GDP) is so many dollars, or ...
    are all those "dollars" referring to pieces of metal?

    No.

    The above examples are not even in paper bills in most cases.

    See ... not even the US government fits in your LEGAL framework.

    ===

    By the way, I do agree that we're victims of a great propaganda ministry, and that the banks and government finances are in deep trouble.
    Last edited by Paul; 4th August 2016 at 23:21.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    ===

    Also, when the US government says
    • I owe them so many dollars in taxes, or
    • agrees to send me so many dollars each money in retirement benefits, or
    • says it has a budget allocating so many dollars for this and that purpose, or
    • says it has so many dollars worth of debt, or
    • reports that the gross domestic product (GDP) is so many dollars, or ...
    are all those "dollars" referring to pieces of metal?

    No.

    The above examples are not even in paper bills in most cases.

    See ... not even the US government fits in your LEGAL framework.
    Sigh.
    You are missing the POINT.

    The sheeple have blindly gone along with a GIANT CON.

    You won't believe me, you won't read law, so what I write won't matter.

    If you bother to read law, and see the BIG LIE, you'll understand the intense pressure to DISARM AMERICANS ASAP.

    Here's a clue.
    Senate Report 93-549
    https://archive.org/stream/senate-re...3-549_djvu.txt
    War and Emergency Powers Acts
    "A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
    FREEDOMS ... GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION ... HAVE BEEN ABRIDGED BY LAWS ... UNDER EMERGENCY RULE ...

    Constitutional U.S.A. (1787 - 1933) R.I.P.
    . . .
    Americans have lived under a two party perpetually indebted benevolent communist totalitarian police state dictatorship* using emergency rules for 83 years (as of 2016) ... and still haven't a clue that the constitutional government has been dead since 1933.

    We’re on the threshold of the final transition to the People’s Democratic Socialist Republic of America.

    KUDOS to the WORLD’S GREATEST PROPAGANDA MINISTRY.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    For what it's worth.
    I think both of you are right (Paul and Ozmirage).
    Both good arguments that should not be interrupted by the definition of what a "dollar" technically is defined as.
    Please continue as I see a course here that should not be interrupted by a definition of a word.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Sigh.
    You are missing the POINT.

    The sheeple have blindly gone along with a GIANT CON.

    You won't believe me, you won't read law, so what I write won't matter.

    If you bother to read law, and see the BIG LIE, you'll understand the intense pressure to DISARM AMERICANS ASAP.
    You don't (or refuse to) understand anything I wrote, except to misrepresent it.
    Last edited by Paul; 5th August 2016 at 00:16.

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    Default Re: Top Financial Analyst: "Banks are insolvent"

    Quote Posted by Chip (here)
    Please continue as ...
    Why bother? Useful discussion is impossible. I should never have tried.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    The original post is misleading as well as inaccurate.
    #1. According to American law, a dollar is a coin.
    #2. A "dollar bill" is an IOU, denominated in dollars. It is NOT a dollar.
    #3. Dollar bills were repudiated in 1933. They are worthless. No par value. They are LEGAL TENDER on all obligated parties on said notes (IOUs).
    #4. Title 12 USC Sec. 411 defines the U.S. government as an obligated party on said notes and will accept them in lieu of lawful money (coin).
    #5. The only way to increase the amount of notes is for CONgress to borrow them into existence, hence the endless deficits.

    Can you guess how YOU became an obligated party on the CONgress' bad debt?

    Hint: Involves signing up with a program that issues you a nine digit number, so you can become a "contributor" equally liable on the debt.

    Details here:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1064191
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    MONEY MADNESS IN AMERICA
    - - - <<>> - - -
    Based on the Coinage Act of 1792 - - -
    Double Eagle = coin containing 0.9675 ounce (troy) of gold bullion and other alloys. Equivalent to 20 unit dollars.

    World supply of gold bullion (est) 5.9 billion ounces.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
    183,600 tonnes x 32151 =5,902,923,600 troy ounces
    If coined, pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792, would compute to
    ● 122,024,260,465.11
    ● $122 billion dollars
    http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
    As of 1/29/2015, there are 7,398,289,733 people (est)
    Thus when divided among 7.4 billion people, computes to
    ● $16.49 per capita

    . . . .
    Q: Exactly what did CONgress borrow to rack up owing over 19 trillion DOLLARS (gold coin)?
    Point: Since silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1873, only gold coin satisfies the law.
    . . . .
    Coining all the gold bullion allegedly in Fort Knox Depository (147.4 million ounces) comes to approximately
    ● $3.05 billion dollars; or
    ● $9.45 per capita

    WHY DOESN'T THE GOVERNMENT FIX THIS?

    ● 14th amendment, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law . . . shall not be questioned.

    Federal Reserve Notes, being worthless IOUs cannot help (debt cannot pay debt). But due to the 14th amendment, clause 4, no one can question the validity of the public debt despite the obvious FRAUD. CONgress never borrowed 19 trillion dollars, because that sum does not exist. Nor is it moral, logical, or legal to indebt the American people to usurers via fraud, deceit, and withholding of material facts (via FICA).

    Yes, America, you are barking mad.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    The original post is misleading as well as inaccurate.
    #1. According to American law, a dollar is a coin.
    #2. A "dollar bill" is an IOU, denominated in dollars. It is NOT a dollar.
    #3. Dollar bills were repudiated in 1933. They are worthless. No par value. They are LEGAL TENDER on all obligated parties on said notes (IOUs).
    #4. Title 12 USC Sec. 411 defines the U.S. government as an obligated party on said notes and will accept them in lieu of lawful money (coin).
    #5. The only way to increase the amount of notes is for CONgress to borrow them into existence, hence the endless deficits.

    Can you guess how YOU became an obligated party on the CONgress' bad debt?

    Hint: Involves signing up with a program that issues you a nine digit number, so you can become a "contributor" equally liable on the debt.

    Details here:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1064191
    So autonomous, anonymous = No Debt (or credit)? If one isn't registered in the matrix the matrix has no hold (slavery etc.). Beware of other versions, they all have their trappings.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    In their own words - - -
    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
    " Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
    ...
    Congress kites bad checks but all YOUR labor and property backs them.
    ...
    Why?
    ...
    Participants in FICA are "contributors".
    CONTRIBUTION - ... The share of a loss payable by an insurer when contracts with two or more insurers cover the same loss... The sharing of loss or payment among several...
    --- Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 328
    ...
    Every enumerated "contributor" under FICA (Federal Insurance CONTRIBUTIONS Act) is equally liable for the public debt, making "dollar bills" into legal tender. Hence you cannot object to their tender.

    If you thought FICA was “insurance” for you, surprise!
    In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits. Benefits are at the sole discretion of Congress.

    Summed up, FICA was not insurance for you, but for the bankrupted U.S. government, who gratefully bribes all those who survive long enough to enjoy the “entitlements” of Socialist InSecurity, a most vile scam to “tax and bribe” a nation into compliance with self-enslavement.

    THE JOKE'S ON US
    “The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...”
    - - - The Social Security Administration
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf

    America's money madness and socialism is 100% voluntary.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    The original post is misleading as well as inaccurate.
    #1. According to American law, a dollar is a coin.
    #2. A "dollar bill" is an IOU, denominated in dollars. It is NOT a dollar.
    #3. Dollar bills were repudiated in 1933. They are worthless. No par value. They are LEGAL TENDER on all obligated parties on said notes (IOUs).
    ...
    If you insist that words mean what you say some law says they mean, nothing more nor less nor otherwise, then yes, my posts, and most other posts on such matters will seem misleading and inaccurate.

    Such dogmatic refusal to consider what was intended behind the words of others does not usually lead to discussion that I find valuable. Sorry.

    ===

    P.S. -- The first 15 or so posts of this thread are the most valuable part of this thread so far, from my perspective. I recommend that late comers to this thread consider these earlier posts.

    As usually happens, on this and other topics, key words (such as "dollar", "money", and "debt" in this case) in opening posts tend to trigger repetition of existing memes tied to those words. Introducing new concepts or views takes multiple repetitions, to get past the noise of existing memes.
    Last edited by Paul; 23rd October 2016 at 22:04.

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    Default Split thread from the Hyperlending thread

    [ Mod-edit: This post began life over at The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending., before I moved it to its own split thread, here.[/url] -- Paul. ]

    ===

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    The original post is misleading as well as inaccurate.
    #1. According to American law, a dollar is a coin.
    #2. A "dollar bill" is an IOU, denominated in dollars. It is NOT a dollar.
    #3. Dollar bills were repudiated in 1933. They are worthless. No par value. They are LEGAL TENDER on all obligated parties on said notes (IOUs).
    ...
    If you insist that words mean what you say some law says they mean, nothing more nor less nor otherwise, then yes, my posts, and most other posts on such matters will seem misleading and inaccurate.

    Such dogmatic refusal to consider what was intended behind the words of others does not usually lead to discussion that I find valuable. Sorry.

    ===

    P.S. -- The first 15 or so posts of this thread are the most valuable part of this thread so far, from my perspective. I recommend that late comers to this thread consider these earlier posts.

    As usually happens, on this and other topics, key words (such as "dollar", "money", and "debt" in this case) in opening posts tend to trigger repetition of existing memes tied to those words. Introducing new concepts or views takes multiple repetitions, to get past the noise of existing memes.
    With all due respect, if you do not use accurate legal terminology, you're reduced to the proverbial blind men arguing about an elephant, based on hear say.
    "Some law" is constitutional law, not something I made up.
    Americans are woefully ignorant of their laws, and yet arrogant in defending that ignorance. Even Congress enacts laws it has not read - not comprehended.

    Who has the power to create money in the United States of America?

    Most people think the government "prints money."
    Some people think that the Federal Reserve "prints money."

    Notes ("dollar bills") are not money.
    NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060

    REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

    MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

    FIAT MONEY. Paper currency not backed by gold or silver.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. P.623
    ....
    [] Dollar bills are defined in Title 12 USC Sec. 411 as obligations (debt) of the U.S. government. Notes are not money.

    [] Real money, based on stamping all the gold in Fort Knox (147.2 million ounces), is approximately 2.9 billion dollars. Stamping all the world’s gold (5.6 billion ounces), computes to 112 billion dollars.

    [] Legal tender, based on notes (debt) that cannot exceed the national debt, of which they are part, is currently 19 trillion dollars. Notes cannot pay debt, being debt. They can only discharge debts of obligated parties on said notes. Furthermore, the public debt can never be paid off with lawful money, since there is not enough bullion.
    ...
    Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
    The Congress shall have Power
    ...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
    ...To coin Money [stamp bullion], regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution
    No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...
    ....
    Note: only gold and silver coin PAY DEBT. And if Congress had the power to create money, it wouldn't need the power to borrow it. Congress can only coin money (stamp bullion).

    COIN - To make pieces of money from metal.
    TITLE 12, USC sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
    " Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
    ...

    Since 1933, Congress has repudiated their promise to redeem their notes, making them worthless.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...al-tender.aspx
    " Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
    Since private property cannot be taken for public use without just compensation (5th amendment), can you guess how Congress can claim your labor and goods as collateral on their bad checks?

    ...

    The question : Who has the power to create money in the United States of America?
    The answer : Not the government. It cannot create bullion.

    Next question : Who has the power to create a medium of exchange to facilitate trade beyond barter?
    The answer : Any productive entity.

    So while all of you argue about the worthless notes that are legal tender but are NOT money, you miss the vital point: if you're not PAYING DEBT with LAWFUL MONEY, you're exercising a revenue taxable privilege to discharge debt with worthless notes.


    If you read Art. 1, Sec. 10, USCON, it says only gold and silver coin PAY DEBT. Worthless notes do not "pay debt."
    What do you call people who do not pay their debts?
    BANKRUPT.
    Guess who has power to manage bankrupts?
    Congress. (Art. 1, Sec. 8, USCON)

    BANKRUPT ... the term "bankrupt" is no longer used in the FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY CODE. The term is "debtor".
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth ed., p.147
    If you've ever signed a "Creditor / Debtor" agreement, you've signed a declaration of bankruptcy, and committed a fraud if you promised to repay a sum of dollars (gold or silver coin). Tsk, tsk.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    FDR abolished the Pauper's oath as a prerequisite for "Relief".
    Pauper's oath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauper%27s_oath

    Now why would EVERYBODY who signed up with FICA / Socialist InSecurity suddenly not need to make a Pauper's Oath to be eligible for ENTITLEMENTS (relief)?

    Because you’re BUSTED, BANKRUPT, KAPUT, PAUPERIZED...!
    And now you must pay a tax - for everything that was once a right is now a taxable privilege : jobs, vocations, owning things, buying and selling, etc.

    DO NOT BELIEVE ME - GO READ THE LAW FOR YOURSELF.
    I am not infallible. I may have made a mistake. But if you think you can ignore the law and its ramifications, you will be unpleasantly surprised when the SHTF.

    If you are a voluntary participant in FICA, you and yours are collateral on that impossible to repay public debt. If you do not mind being a voluntary slave of usurers, please disregard this post. Why subject yourself to the aggravation of reading law at a county courthouse law library?
    You've chained yourself and your precious children into perpetual servitude. Please be polite and not rattle them too loudly.
    Last edited by Paul; 24th October 2016 at 01:19.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    With all due respect, if you do not use accurate legal terminology, you're reduced to the proverbial blind men arguing about an elephant, based on hear say.
    With all due respect, I moved your post to Split thread from the Hyperlending thread

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    Default Re: Split thread from the Hyperlending thread

    Addendum:
    For those who didn't catch it the first time around - - - dollar bills, being debt, are NOT FIAT.
    And those who are collateral (i.e. "human resources") on that public debt are at great risk when the creditor forecloses.
    Since the government repudiated their notes, back in 1933, they're not at risk. (Public property is held in trust, and is not pledged as collateral on the debt)
    Only the 320 million American "contributors" are at risk.

    Consider what happens if a substantial proportion of that collateral 'walks away' (leaves FICA)?

    Suddenly, the value of the collateral drops, and the notes become underfunded, and less attractive to investors and usurers.

    Remember, they are NOT dollars (coin), but worthless IOUs (securities).
    As undercapitalized securities, they drop precipitously in value and lose fungibility. In short order, they become useless, worthless paper - less valuable than Confederate notes.
    Billionaire become zero-aires.
    Government collapses.
    International trade comes to a halt.
    Investments are wiped out.
    Retirement accounts are nulled.

    It is quite obvious why such information would be withheld from the public... well, not actually hidden - just never mentioned.

    So keep on believing that you're buying and selling with "dollars" and argue about the declining buying power of paper and never, ever, consider the 800 lb. gorilla in the living room.

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    Default Re: The Fed is not just "printing money into hyperinflation" ... it's worse than that. It's Hyperlending.

    What would happen if everyone on the planet was a trillion billionaire?
    Does equal wealth make everyone prosperous?
    What happens when no one ever _needs money_ again?
    . . .
    These questions highlight "money madness" - a malady that involves substituting the abstraction of money for the reality of goods and services.

    When everyone is "equally rich," no one "needs money," hence has no reason to work, farm, mine, strive, produce, transport, ship, trade, etc. Civilization collapses. Even the starving children are "wealthy."

    Money does not make prosperity. “Making money” is a fool’s errand.

    Eventually, humanity has to embrace the idea that prosperity is not based on wealth or a need for money, but upon production, equitable trade, and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services. Mere subsistence is not enough.

    Doing more with less so more can enjoy is superior to doing less with more so few can enjoy. And that people must be prodigiously productive because that is what civilized people do. "Making money" has nothing to do with it, and those who control the apparent value and supply of money tokens have robbed humanity for millennia. Ditto, for the useless parasites and predators who support themselves by taking from the productive people.

    Until you awaken from money madness, you’re barking mad.
    The secret of life is that there is no secret of life.

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