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Thread: Bob Dean Authenticity

  1. Link to Post #61
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)

    Wow, funny you should mention Simon Parks, Bill and I had dissenting opinions on Simon, 7 months before Avalon made a public declaration of not supporting Simon, I told Bill privately about my concerns in regards to Simon Parks and I told him that to let Simon continue on this forum was tantement to endorsing Simon. Bill defended Simon Parks on the grounds that he had "not been convicted by a court of law" and as such should be allowed to continue.
    This forum was so pro-simon at the time.
    Part of that is correct. The sexual impropriety allegations against Simon Parkes were very serious. Because no evidence had been offered, we were morally obliged to take an 'agnostic', neutral stance. 'The forum' was not 'pro-Simon'. Go look up all the posts, including those of myself and the other mods. They're all on record.

    What we did was the proper thing to do at the time. Some members were casually playing ball with a real person's reputation. This is not some video game where everyone has a beer when it's all over, and it's all forgotten. These things stick like epoxy, right or wrong.

    The game changed when we received personal testimony. (That all actually started with first-person testimony of clear, serious improprieties in his personal 'counseling'. That's pretty serious, too.)

    If the sexual allegations had been false (and we had been told point-blank by a moderator on another forum that some of the allegations had been fabricated by Corey Goode, for example, go figure -- and he may well have done that, too), we'd have been in serious breach of helping to ruin a good man's reputation. That's not a cool thing to do.

    Also with Bob Dean, of course. You dishonor an extremely fine man. As was very neatly stated (by screenwriter Aaron Sorkin) in The Social Network:
    Quote The Internet's not written in pencil, it's written in ink.
    In my personal opinion, you should be ashamed of yourself. And you play a dangerous game. You're going WAY over the line here. I was neutral about Simon last year, but I am not neutral about Bob Dean. I know the guy. You do not. Simon was not a friend, at any point. (We barely had any communication, and I've never met him.) I've had many delightful dinners and lunches and coffees with Bob. He's as authentic as the day is long. Everyone who has met him will confirm that.

    As I mentioned above (my post #37), please save your unpleasant, unkind vitriol for those where there is hard evidence that they may actually deserve it.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 30th October 2016 at 20:09.

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  3. Link to Post #62
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    What I have learned, above all else, is that no one has all the answers, not even me.

    Even though I don't know all the answers I am still capable of at least accidentally hitting on a few pertinent points from time to time. And I claim no authority.

    Bob Dean is a big old teddy bear. I don't ever remember him claiming to know it all. He shared with us some of what he knew or experienced. None of what he said was ever refuted or proved false. To question his reputation because of some misconstrued favorable circumstance seems like a stretch.

    But like Bob Dean, I respect DNAs opinion. He's no slouch either.

    Don't even know why I chimed in here. Not my place but I'll let it stand.
    DNA is no slouch.

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)

    Wow, funny you should mention Simon Parks, Bill and I had dissenting opinions on Simon, 7 months before Avalon made a public declaration of not supporting Simon, I told Bill privately about my concerns in regards to Simon Parks and I told him that to let Simon continue on this forum was tantement to endorsing Simon. Bill defended Simon Parks on the grounds that he had "not been convicted by a court of law" and as such should be allowed to continue.
    This forum was so pro-simon at the time.
    Part of that is correct. The sexual impropriety allegations against Simon Parkes were very serious. Because no evidence had been offered, we were morally obliged to take an 'agnostic', neutral stance. 'The forum' was not 'pro-Simon'. Go look up all the posts, including those of myself and the other mods. They're all on record.

    What we did was the proper thing to do at the time. Some members were casually playing ball with a real person's reputation. This is not some video game where everyone has a beer when it's all over, and it's all forgotten. These things stick like epoxy, right or wrong.

    The game changed when we received personal testimony. (That all actually started with first-person testimony of clear, serious improprieties in his personal 'counseling'. That's pretty serious, too.)

    If the sexual allegations had been false (and we had been told point-blank by a moderator on another forum that some of the allegations had been fabricated by Corey Goode, for example, go figure -- and he may well have done that, too), we'd have been in serious breach of helping to ruin a good man's reputation. That's not a cool thing to do.

    Also with Bob Dean, of course. You dishonor an extremely fine man. As was very neatly stated (by screenwriter Aaron Sorkin) in The Social Network:
    Quote The Internet's not written in pencil, it's written in ink.
    In my personal opinion, you should be ashamed of yourself. And you play a dangerous game. You're going WAY over the line here. I was neutral about Simon last year, but I am not neutral about Bob Dean. I know the guy. You do not. Simon was not a friend, at any point. (We barely had any communication, and I've never met him.) I've had many delightful dinners and lunches and coffees with Bob. He's as authentic as the day is long. Everyone who has met him will confirm that.

    As I mentioned above (my post #37), please save your unpleasant, unkind vitriol for those where there is hard evidence that they may actually deserve it.

    You ignored the allegations a year and a half ago.


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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    I'm with Bill ~ Bob Dean is great, I wish I could also have dinner with him

    I also read on another forum of a lady that was friends with the Lear family for years, she said that John Lear has always been a good and honest man, though Bill thinks he is only 80% truthful... he is another I'd like to have a meal with...

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  7. Link to Post #64
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    You ignored the allegations a year and a half ago.
    That's spinning, twisting and distorting what I took some care above to explain in detail. We were not in a position to do anything, and nor would it have been right for us to do so, because the allegations were serious (legally so) and there wasn't a shred of evidence other than internet gossip.

    It was later revealed, of course, that some of that was absolutely founded in fact. But, it might not have been. 99 out of 100 people reading this now didn't know then, either.

    Please read what I wrote ^^ again, and then (if you choose to) you have the opportunity to edit your post to say something a little more accurate.


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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    And to make clear, yes, I do understand it is frustrating to see what others do not see. There was a thread started by a guru wanna be named Edward Alexander (Aliester Crowley's birth name), who I clearly saw as a practitioner of the dark path. I wrote a somewhat sloppy and quick analysis of why I thought so, and got the crap kicked out of me. Went back, and explained carefully, longwindedly, and politely the clues I saw. Wasn't until some ten pages later of the thread that the years of assholery spent by this dude on the Internet, including drug dealing, became apparent.

    Sometimes you put it out there, and have to wait for confirmation from other sources.
    I experience that gut knowing. (not about Edward Alexander)

    I watch. I listen. I research. IMO: well known name(s) mentioned on this thread (not Bob Dean) I believe is/are compromised/AI controlled. I have no way to prove it. Most important, I do not want to engage in the battle.

    Several years back, I started a questionable thread of Simon. IIRC: It didnít make it past two hours nor two pages. Pro-Simons came out of the woodwork, some forum members I hadn't known. I elected to close it down. I had my own personal evidence but quickly learned itíd get lost amongst the staunch followers.

    People donít want their heroes torn apart. I get it. Eventually, time does. In the end, itís not important what I believe. We each have to discover that for ourselves.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 1st November 2016 at 17:38.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    The problem is polarities--people feel they must take side.

    Most of the time its an opinion--Bill is different in having first hand experience.
    I can see much of what Bob Dean brings is positive and uplifting.
    I can see that DNA has a way of expressing that does not suit everyone.
    However I think its up to the individual to like or dislike this.
    I prefer an easier way of expressing overall, that does not make DNA right or wrong in what he says.

    Perhaps both bring/brought something useful to the forum.
    We don't have to start WW111 over it.
    Opinions can still be kept

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by Sueanne47 (here)

    ...though Bill thinks he [John Lear] is only 80% truthful
    No, no, no, no, no!

    We all have to be so very careful with words here. What I said was that John was 80% correct.



    Here's the post:
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    Re John Lear, Henry Deacon told me personally (after the publication of our 2008 4-part interview with him) that Lear was "80% correct". (I'd agree with that, personally).

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    And to make clear, yes, I do understand it is frustrating to see what others do not see. There was a thread started by a guru wanna be named Edward Alexander (Aliester Crowley's birth name), who I clearly saw as a practitioner of the dark path. I wrote a somewhat sloppy and quick analysis of why I thought so, and got the crap kicked out of me. Went back, and explained carefully, longwindedly, and politely the clues I saw. Wasn't until some ten pages later of the thread that the years of assholery spent by this dude on the Internet, including drug dealing, became apparent.

    Sometimes you put it out there, and have to wait for confirmation from other sources.
    I experience that gut knowing. (not about Edward Alexander)

    I watch. I research. IMO: well known name(s) on this thread (not Bob Dean) I believe is/are compromised/AI controlled. I have no way to prove it. Most important, I do not want to engage in the battle.

    Several years back, I started a questionable thread of Simon. IIRC: It didnít make it past two hours nor two pages. So many pro-Simons came out of the woodwork. I elected to close it down. I had my own personal evidence but quickly learned itíd get lost amongst the staunch followers.

    Some may say it's selfish. Why are you here? To that I say, people donít want their heroes torn apart. I get it. Eventually, time does. In the end, itís not important what I believe. We each have to discover that for ourselves.
    I think if we peeled back the veil of truth about a lot of people in the conspiracy research community we would be shocked with what we found. Just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    oh sorry Bill!!

    I love listening to Bob, here is a recent video (I've heard this quite a while back, but its been revamped) :

    Last edited by Sueanne47; 30th October 2016 at 21:06.

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    And to make clear, yes, I do understand it is frustrating to see what others do not see. There was a thread started by a guru wanna be named Edward Alexander (Aliester Crowley's birth name), who I clearly saw as a practitioner of the dark path. I wrote a somewhat sloppy and quick analysis of why I thought so, and got the crap kicked out of me. Went back, and explained carefully, longwindedly, and politely the clues I saw. Wasn't until some ten pages later of the thread that the years of assholery spent by this dude on the Internet, including drug dealing, became apparent.

    Sometimes you put it out there, and have to wait for confirmation from other sources.
    I experience that gut knowing. (not about Edward Alexander)

    I watch. I research. IMO: well known name(s) on this thread (not Bob Dean) I believe is/are compromised/AI controlled. I have no way to prove it. Most important, I do not want to engage in the battle.

    Several years back, I started a questionable thread of Simon. IIRC: It didnít make it past two hours nor two pages. So many pro-Simons came out of the woodwork. I elected to close it down. I had my own personal evidence but quickly learned itíd get lost amongst the staunch followers.

    Some may say it's selfish. Why are you here? To that I say, people donít want their heroes torn apart. I get it. Eventually, time does. In the end, itís not important what I believe. We each have to discover that for ourselves.
    What Paula says is true Therefore I disagree with Bill's statement that the forum was not pro Simon.
    One did not dare criticize Simon.

    Sometime later it was accepted by quite a few members that Simon had been put on a pedestal--he had been seen as an important whistle blower by the majority of the forum as far as I could tell.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    And to make clear, yes, I do understand it is frustrating to see what others do not see. There was a thread started by a guru wanna be named Edward Alexander (Aliester Crowley's birth name), who I clearly saw as a practitioner of the dark path. I wrote a somewhat sloppy and quick analysis of why I thought so, and got the crap kicked out of me. Went back, and explained carefully, longwindedly, and politely the clues I saw. Wasn't until some ten pages later of the thread that the years of assholery spent by this dude on the Internet, including drug dealing, became apparent.

    Sometimes you put it out there, and have to wait for confirmation from other sources.
    I experience that gut knowing. (not about Edward Alexander)

    I watch. I research. IMO: well known name(s) on this thread (not Bob Dean) I believe is/are compromised/AI controlled. I have no way to prove it. Most important, I do not want to engage in the battle.

    Several years back, I started a questionable thread of Simon. IIRC: It didnít make it past two hours nor two pages. So many pro-Simons came out of the woodwork. I elected to close it down. I had my own personal evidence but quickly learned itíd get lost amongst the staunch followers.

    Some may say it's selfish. Why are you here? To that I say, people donít want their heroes torn apart. I get it. Eventually, time does. In the end, itís not important what I believe. We each have to discover that for ourselves.
    What Paula says is true Therefore I disagree with Bill's statement that the forum was not pro Simon.
    One did not dare criticize Simon.

    Sometime later it was accepted by quite a few members that Simon had been put on a pedestal--he had been seen as an important whistle blower by the majority of the forum as far as I could tell.

    Chris
    I wasn't a member at the time,but I was here as a guest from the beginning of this forum. I would have to agree with you.

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    What Paula says is true Therefore I disagree with Bill's statement that the forum was not pro Simon.
    One did not dare criticize Simon.

    Sometime later it was accepted by quite a few members that Simon had been put on a pedestal--he had been seen as an important whistle blower by the majority of the forum as far as I could tell.

    Chris
    Quote One did not dare criticize Simon.
    No, not completely, not in my case.

    As with many, many threads, my decision to let it ride was because much was shared between members. Which in turn offered new paths to follow for each of us.

    Again, for myself, it's about the larger picture. We don't know what we don't know until we go dig.

    RunningDeer ♡
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 30th October 2016 at 21:11.

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    You ignored the allegations a year and a half ago.
    That's spinning, twisting and distorting what I took some care above to explain in detail. We were not in a position to do anything, and nor would it have been right for us to do so, because the allegations were serious (legally so) and there wasn't a shred of evidence other than internet gossip.

    It was later revealed, of course, that some of that was absolutely founded in fact. But, it might not have been. 99 out of 100 people reading this now didn't know then, either.

    Please read what I wrote ^^ again, and then (if you choose to) you have the opportunity to edit your post to say something a little more accurate.

    You are correct, there is no correlation between SP and BD. As long as it isn't BobD. Lol
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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Ive found, in my life, that progress can be made much quicker between 2 people - real, honest progress - if a heated exchange occurs, perhaps an even insulting and so called offensive exchange, right off the bat..where real, honest feelings come tumbling out, sometimes clumsily and cuttingly and awkwardly.....rather than a slow, plodding, tedious egg-shell-dance feeling out process of the persons boundries and sensitivities..

    There is a risk involved in the former, a risk that the relationship will end there n then....but theres also a huge potential for spontaneous, cathartic break thru that doesnt exist in scenario #2. Scenario number 2 might make us feel warm n fuzzy in the short term, but usually ends in a vanilla type, barely surface scratching superficiality.

    Life is short. I like option 1.

    You set some fires to get things moving...you try to put them out eventually...you won't always succeed, but if the gods are smiling you will have done much more healing than damage.

    Maybe it's kind of crude and bull-in-china shop-ish, but I prefer it. Thats just me.

    I like DNA's approach. It doesnt offend me for a second...because I can see what he's trying to do. Sometimes i'll sign in just to read his posts..and then sign off. Boredom is the greatest sin of all, and if we risk accepting it in the name of "civility" we may find that we're snoring ourselves to an early death. Homogeny is as fatal as cancer.
    Last edited by Mike; 30th October 2016 at 21:14.

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by shadowstalker (here)
    Generally speaking

    There are all lot of people that can not be read there is a reason for that, they are protected in some way, either by them selves or others are protecting them.
    Please keep this in mind.
    Generally speaking
    Thank you for saying that. People in the media or who write books or stand on a podium cannot really be known. I have a sister who is a psychopath and sociopath and she has conned her own family for yearssss. It is not until you really do the investigation, watch the behaviors, catch them in lies, have the evidence and get the epiphany's staring you head on that you know. I would not assume Bob Dean is such. I know E'Asha ( Ashayana )is not or I could not engage with her work. Zagami should not even be in the same sentence with these two. Misinformation and dark illuminati symbolism always shows itself. There are always clues if you are careful enough to see. As far as believing someone, that is subjective. What one person believes through their perception is their truth based on their understanding of what is kindred to their soul.
    When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandparent, dignified as a king. -- I Ching

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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I disagree with Bill's statement that the forum was not pro Simon.
    Some members wanted to hear Simon's every word. But that was not the general view of the mods.

    Chris, go look through Simon's threads. I almost never posted there, and (without checking right now) I believe the other mods hardly ever did, either. We simply allowed the conversation to continue, which is our normal modus operandi. That's what the forum's for. It's not complicated, a lot of what we do.

    There are hundreds of threads that we never read or follow, and (as long as there are no complaints) they just grow and grow, and everyone wins. The forum is a large, virtual conference center with thousands of breakout rooms where small groups hold conversations. That's really all it is, except that everything is on permanent, retrievable record.

    There was no reason, at all, to stop or halt any of Simon's threads. The contents were all about Simon's personal opinions in response to questions he was being asked by members. That was all 100% fine. On the forum, Simon never once stepped out of line.

    Things are being grossly twisted around.
    Disturbances in the Force -- as the mods have been observing to one another since yesterday morning US time.



    I'm wondering if anyone here has anything positive to say about anything or anyone at all!

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  33. Link to Post #77
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    When I said "One did not dare criticize Simon" --implied was that if one did and I did--then there would be a strong reaction to the post.
    People will defend their hero.

    Yes people need all kinds of experiences to grow--dead ends included.

    In fairness Bob Dean a different subject all together, always interesting and quietly charismatic, I enjoyed listening to him.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  35. Link to Post #78
    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Sometime later it was accepted by quite a few members that Simon had been put on a pedestal--he had been seen as an important whistle blower by the majority of the forum as far as I could tell.

    Chris
    I agree. And I see the forum today, as not quite so willing to put people on pedestals, which I consider a wonderful development. We've had two or three guru wanna bes pass through our portals recently that were given short shrift by the members.
    Last edited by Sierra; 30th October 2016 at 21:21.

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  37. Link to Post #79
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I disagree with Bill's statement that the forum was not pro Simon.
    Some members wanted to hear Simon's every word. But that was not the general view of the mods.

    Chris, go look through Simon's threads. I almost never posted there, and (without checking right now) I believe the other mods hardly ever did, either. We simply allowed the conversation to continue, which is our normal modus operandi. That's what the forum's for. It's not complicated, a lot of what we do.

    There are hundreds of threads that we never read or follow, and (as long as there are no complaints) they just grow and grow, and everyone wins. The forum is a large, virtual conference center with thousands of breakout rooms where small groups hold conversations. That's really all it is, except that everything is on permanent, retrievable record.

    There was no reason, at all, to stop or halt any of Simon's threads. The contents were all about Simon's personal opinions in response to questions he was being asked by members. That was all 100% fine. On the forum, Simon never once stepped out of line.

    Things are being grossly twisted around.
    Disturbances in the Force -- as the mods have been observing to one another since yesterday morning US time.



    I'm wondering if anyone here has anything positive to say about anything or anyone at all!
    Ive said positive things about the mods and your self also Bob Dean, Bill.

    Yes sometimes there is a negative energy.

    When I said the forum was pro Simon funnily enough I was not including mods or you as I do see the team as neutral apart from when they have to take action..


    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  39. Link to Post #80
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    Default Re: Bob Dean Authenticity

    Hi Mike,

    Where's the love????!!!!!

    Civility is paramount on a forum as we are Avalon family, if we were to be rude or harsh...just for the sake of not being boring, then new members would quickly jump ship and we would not have mutual respect for each other like we do. Many dont post for fear of being slammed.

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