Discerning Truth from Fraud

[pintorider]

I'm very new to this forum and have been viewing Camelot Project videos on youtube for about the last two months or so. I have no problem believing the "outrageous" claims of Andrew Basiago and a "jump room" to Mars, but I just can't swallow anything that Jordan Maxwell says. Am I alone in this opinion? How do you all discern between the truth tellers and the deceivers? Thanks.

[Carmody]

You are not alone but I'm not among those who believe that about Jordan. We are all colored by who we are and we are all reactive to certain personality types whom we clash with. I have a hard time with Aaron McColloum.

So what, then?

I somehow have no problem reading a book on how a psychic like Micheal Bodine actually sees spirits, all the time. Ie day in, day out. I have no problem myself in believing that as I have direct personal experiences in those areas of psychic activity.

The way I see it, is that one cannot be selective to that degree, a degree of outright exclusion, due to a desire for comfort in ego and body. It's literally a case of saying to myself, OK, Pandora's box is open, but due to my comfort zone, I am going to create, just for me, a limit on it's busting. How busted it is, what can come out of it and what it ends up being. I'm going to dictate that, as I'm not comfortable with that bit over there.

I'm sorry, it does not work. As soon as you have even ONE more dimension to existence, the whole thing just collapses. Reality, as a concept is dunked and comes out barely alive, and has a new shape for me that I'll be spending the rest of my life figuring out. Too bad, sucks to be me. It's like that 'little bit pregnant' line. Either preggies, or no.

Either Pandora's box is blown all to Rattus Excrement and there are bits of it stuck to everything..or the lid is firmly shut. But "open just a little bit, in the way that I find comfortable", well, that just don't work. Not for me, not for you.

discernment is a personal thing, IMO and IME. The message is different for each of us. There are things that I personally understand that to me, make what some of Jordan's messages are about be true. To me.

I mean a man can tell me he jumped off a cliff and never hit the ground. He achieved flight. I'd say BULL! But then I recall myself manifesting things that are truly not of what we like to call 'normal'...so who am I to judge? Maybe he did. Levitation and bio-location, for example. Those two I want to master before I leave this place. I've no idea if I'll make it there or not, but that won't stop me from finding a way.

[Arpheus]

Before making hasting decisions about Jordan maxwell i suggest you do your own homework,you will be surprised after you start digging out some stuff,now dont get me wrong i am not saying everything the man says is truth but he spent pretty much his whole life researching the things he speaks of and a lot of things he says can be easily confirmed if you do your own research.

[pintorider]

I tried to "soften" my original post but the edit would not take. I wanted to change "anything he says" to a lot, or even some of what he says. I did do some homework, and found his real name or another name he uses is "Russell Pine." I also looked at his website, and watched "debunking" film that catches him in inaccurate information and some of what I consider to be down right deception. In contrast, David Wilcox has made some predictions that didn't happen but I feel he is generally trying to be truthful. Not so with Mr. Pine. I have seen four day-time UFOs with other people as witnesses and had experiences that lead me to believe I may be an abduction subject. So the lid is definitely wide open. I just have grave reservation about Jordan Maxwell and wanted others' opinions and I thank you for yours. I'm not looking for agreement.

[Carmody]

when in edit mode, hit advanced and then save from there. that's how it works, there's a bug in the software.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by pintorider (here)
I did do some homework, and found his real name or another name he uses is "Russell Pine."

Yes, that's correct - Russell Pine is Jordan's real name. This is well known.

But a quick note about names. MANY people have changed their names at some point in their lives for totally valid personal reasons. In itself, it means nothing.

Kerry Cassidy's name is not her own, either - she changed it when she was young and training to be an actress (she makes no secret about it). So have many other people in the public arena. One reason is that they may not like their name. (Anyone here know that feeling?)

Beside 'stage names', another common reason is to protect or insulate close members of their family if one is a public figure, especially a controversial one. To protect your family is not sneaky - it's honorable.

This is not personal at all, but I say this to make the point: pintorider, do you want to reveal your actual birth name here in public for all to see? Maybe not... and of course this is fine. So it is with Jordan. His having a 'real name' is often used to try to discredit him.... it has no bearing on his work.

[pintorider]

[QUOTE=Bill Ryan;81488]Yes, that's correct - Russell Pine is Jordan's real name. This is well known.
************************
I do understand about wanting to protect one's family. Are you aware of how he chose the name that he current goes by? It's from one of his favorite books by HP Blavatsky. In fact in her theology, Jordanus Maximus is the second person of her "trinity" of Godhead. But on his website he claims he was unaware of this until a rabbi sent him an email telling him. How could this be possible?

I know you have interviewed him personally, Bill. He is a charmng person and an excellent story teller, but his stories about meeting the old man in the old truck and the one when he was a young man meeting his girlfriend's father, both of whom told him he was destined for some great mssion, don't ring true to me. I'm sorry, I'd like to believe him but I just can't. Both these stories are impossible to verify, there can be no "homework" done on them. I have to go with my gut feeling.

And Bill, you wouldn't tell people my real name would you? It's embarrassing enough that I think what I do about myself without my friends finding out.

I figured anyone with a computer could find out Jordan's real name and it was common knowledge. I found it in a lawsuit he was involved in. Something about producing drivers licenses and other "official" paper work. That in itself is troubling to me. Not that the government wouldn't trump up false charges, they would, but again, who do you trust?

This is a general question to everyone: are there people out there in this field who should not be trusted at all, and how do you sort them out? I want the truth and I'm not willing to settle for deception. I've experienced enough of that.

[Dale]

Are you aware of how he chose the name that he current goes by? It's from one of his favorite books by HP Blavatsky. In fact in her theology, Jordanus Maximus is the second person of her "trinity" of Godhead. But on his website he claims he was unaware of this until a rabbi sent him an email telling him. How could this be possible?

Here's a little story.

Back in college, I wrote a paper about a fellow named "Simon Wheeler." An in-depth analysis of this character. Made it all up on the spot, in one sitting. Little did I know, upon presenting this paper to my professor, that "Simon Wheeler" was a character from a short story by Mark Twain. Not only that, but I had correctly described his characteristics. My professor found this analogy to be brilliant, and awarded me full points. Little did she know I hadn't ever read a single work by Mark Twain, nor was I alluding to his character, "Simon Wheeler," in any conscious way.

Odd synchronicities like this happen all the time, to a wide array of individuals. Things you could never explain away.

[conk]

As for the OP's thread title, the truth can be ascertained by muscle checking, use of a pendulum, or by dousing. Also, body language, eye movements, and voice analysis.

[pintorider]

What does "OP" mean?

I like the suggestions about eye movements, body language and voice stress testing. I have studied NLP fairly exensively, used to hold a certification from Richard Bandler and have had a life long interest in body language. It's the eye movements and body language that have brought me to my opinions about JM. I could be wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time .

I'm aware of muscle testing and have seen it demonstrated many times. I'm not sure just what it is telling us, though. In contrast, I worked as a surveyor in the early eighties doing topo studies, locating utilities for road work. I used two brass welding rods bent at 90 degrees and held six inches apart. We routinely located underground metal pipes in this manner with complete accuracy. The engineers in the office were unable to explain how this worked but were happy to accept the results. However, not every crew member could do it. I haven't had much luck with a pendulum but may try it again.

[jimmer]

I'm with pintorider.
when fantastic claims or stories are presented with no hard evidence, then let the buyer beware, no matter how affable the story teller is.
as much as it's fun to speculate a claimant's veracity, only hard proof (photos, objects, eyewitnesses, independent/credible verification)
can make certain that claims are indeed truthful. everything else is purly conjecture and mythical.
that said, I do believe in santa.

[pintorider]

Yes, I believe you, Dale. It rings true to me that this might happen. However, you never read Mark Twain and JM said that Isis was his favorite book. I must watch the video where David Icke talks with Jordan Maxwell. I get this vivid picture of both of them squaring off in a boxing ring, gloves on, each defending his right to the title of the Second Person in the Trinity! Sorry, I have a wicked sense of humor and it usually comes out when I'm nervous and unsure of my self in a new crowd. I'll settled down, but I hope that skepticism is not suppressed here.

PS I just ordered David Ickes's new book from Amazon and I'm starting to listen to him more. He is amazing and prolific with important things to say.

[pintorider]

Aaron McColloum. Now I remember. The coast guard member who was also in black ops, supposedly. I had a really hard time believing him, also. I hope I'm not being inappropriate here with this line of inquiry but it is of premiere importance to me that I can weed out the experiencers from the imposters. Utmost importance.

[Banshee]

I don't find Maxwell's claims to be fantastical at all. He only claims to have been warned about the controllers by more than one individual and has had some moments of awareness where he felt threatened. He's not claiming to have ever been taken aboard the mother ship or being trained as "black ops" - (my god they're everywhere- ought to be called Ops in various shades of grey)- a popular genre right now no doubt. I just love his line of study ( JM) - I don't recall hearing whether he is an etymologist or not, but his exposure of the things we take for granted or don't think about at all, is fascinating. He is particularly charming when he throws in a few "zingers" - silly stuff that is obviously erroneous- almost as though he's testing the audience to see if they're listening or if there is any grey matter present in his audience. I bet his IQ is in the stratosphere ( not that a Eugenics tool is appropriate). Just my opinion, I just like him.

[pintorider]

He's a likable guy, agreed. In one video however, he made a mockery of etymology with his interpretations of where words come from. Just way off base and wrong. But he's a had a successful career and is very popular with some very mainstream corporations. He has a lot of support from big names. I still can't shake my distrust of him.

Later... Oh wow, the more I look into Jordan Maxwell, the darker the picture looks. He is a long time friend of Anthony J Hilder who is suspected of being the hypnotist who mind controlled Sirhan Sirhan. He also was convicted of selling fraudulent international drivers licenses over the internet as well as selling an illegal schemes to "repair credit." This doesn't look good. He was fined over $444,000 and as he few sources of income, was obviously unable to pay the fine. Usually the government arranges some sort of work exchange in these cases. I wonder who Jordan is working for? Now I'm out to investigate his deeper background, education, (if any) and work history.

[bashi]

I remember seeing a vid where MJ was giving an intro to a man who claimed that the famous “food of the gods” in ancient Egypt was made out of psychogenic mushrooms.
If he had done his homework, then he should have known better…

[pintorider]

That was Maxwell's explanation for the "manna from heaven" story in the Bible. Manna was some sort of "magic mushroom" that allowed the Israelis to "talk to God," according to Jordan Maxwell, aka Russell Pine. I think his mistakes go beyond not doing his homework.

[Banshee]

wow. are you sure? what are your sources? please, share with us asap? try to temper this with the knowledge that Julian Asange is being called a rapist. Just cause its on the net, doesn't make it true.

[pintorider]

I think you are inquiring about my sources for the convictions and fine imposed on Russell Pine aka Jordan Maxwell. If so I found them on a pdf on the Federal Trade Commission website:

Federal Trade Commission, Plaintiff, v. Jordan Maxwell, also known as Russell Pine, individually and doing business as BBCOA aka BBC of America aka Better Books and Cassettes of America; and Vic Varjabedian aka Victor Varjabedian aka Varouj Varjabedian, individually,Defendants, Civ. No. 03 0128 NM (CWx)
(Central District of California, Western Division)

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/jorda...anmaxwell.shtm

If you are referring to the "manna" information, this was taken from a videotaped lecture given some time ago by Jordan Maxwell himself, so I got it straight from him.

[Dale]

Allow me to take my "mod hat" off for a moment.

Concerning Mr. Maxwell, he is a genuine man who has spent his entire life pursuing truth and reason.

I believe this not only because of my own, personal intuitive readings of the man; but because of later verifications I have received from several well connected "friends."

Without Mr. Maxwell and his work, we would not be here, having this conversation, enjoying the freedom to hold an opinion of any deviation from the standard. These aren't my words, directly, but a representation of what I've heard concerning Maxwell's quite strong push in the opposing direction as many "established" groups. If anyone can be credited with kicking this "movement" into action, it would be Mr. Maxwell.

As for his "criminal record," it is known that many "established" groups work to derail alternative spokesmen, and quite often, turn to clever traps and tricks involving the legal system. It is completely unknowable the extent and circumstances of this case, and even if he had actually committed this forgery, with intent, please explain how it would discredit the work he's dedicated his life to.

That's all I will say concerning this subject. I highly recommend we spend less time pointing fingers at possibilities, and instead focus our time on something a bit more positive, yes?