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    Default If reincarnation is true...

    If reincarnation is true then who was the first person to ever be created before they were created? Or didn't reincarnation apply to that person? Or they might be caught in a vacuum of some sort.

    If reincarnation is true then who we are NOW will always be who we have always been; right?

    If reincarnation is true and God is our real Self; then why does He keep forgetting who He is upon entering into another soulish body?

    If reincarnation and freewill are true then why don't we assert our freewill and improve our memory to not forget who we were and to not make the same mistakes again that lands us into another cycle of memory lapse rebirth?

    If reincarnation is true then why doesn't God improve His personal counseling skills to help us to not get reincarnated again in order that we might enjoy His perpetual creation while having an instilled memory?

    If reincarnation is true then why didn't those who made it out of the vicious cycle not give us that information on how they managed?

    Seems to me that karma isn't the issue here but rather irresponsibility on our part and God's.

    Twenty thousand years of forward progress doesn't matter then if suddenly you get zip lined backwards again into another stupid, irresponsible forgetful body.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Reincarnation is true in the unawakened state. After full awakening it disappears. Why aren't we born fully awakened? That is one of the great mysteries of all time.

    There is no free will. God, or whatever one wishes to call That Which is One, creates everything. Our thoughts, our moods, our feelings, everything. Life in a body on such a place as earth is a spiritual proving ground. To the Buddhists we take thousands of births. No one incarnation is a big deal until the hand of Grace visits us to bring awakening. Those thousands of births represent a slow movement towards Understanding.

    This cannot be understood through intellectual ideas. The intellect is useless in understanding the awakened state. Only the intuition counts.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    If I don’t remember what I did in previous lives I would have no sense of making errors and therefore I wouldn’t be inclined to fix anything in this life time.

    How can we progress if we are operating unconsciously or mechanically?

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the "I", imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. ~Nisaragadatta

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    fear of banishing makes people imagine continuous existence. Birth and death is a normal and continuous process so above is below. Cells in our body as well as stars born and die.

    Matter represents a set of energy a combination of complex set of energies gives birth to consciousness. When body disintegrate so is consciousness cease to exist. The energy that makes up the matter will be preserve and use by other entities that is in the process of birthing or existing. When we eat veggies that veggie cease to exist and the energy is use to create cells in our body it becomes part of our existence . "truth is self explanatory"

    As matter represents a combination of energy when matter disintegrates it also represents the breakdown/ transformation of energies that makes up the matter ,along with the consciousness. " truth is self explanatory". Birth and death is a normal process we are better of accepting it than entertain the illusion of infinite existence. reincarnation is another invented scam to keep people busy, confuse and unmindful of real issues IMO.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    According to the URANTIA book was : Andon and Fonda, but there are many symilar stories all over the world, depicting almost the same.. research. and dig into the Dolores cannon books , are awesome!

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the "I", imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. ~Nisaragadatta
    Ah, yes I agree and with regards to Karma, IMO, it all belongs to the illusionary "self" ... BUT the "good news" for all is : "You are NOT that" !!!

    Now, anybody for a little bit of humour, why not eh ?

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Clear Light; 16th November 2016 at 02:22. Reason: An Amendment

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    I believe to avoid eternal board-um , reincarnation is minds less ,, if we are truly not of this world,,, then there is no way of knowing what is not of this world.... no one knows, no religion knows, no being knows.. so how can one say reincarnation is so.... ? so now what......shrug it off and just live what we have....
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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    This is one of those ponderable, but unprovable questions of life. That's one reason why we talk and write about it so much. No one can prove or disprove reincarnation. It's an article of faith. Like religion.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Nokodemjon , from the planet Sadar... it is said he was the first human form to complete the 60-80 billion material life, 60-80 million half spirit half material, then he entered into the first pure spirit level 4 billion years , then the last pure spirit level of Petale, then he merged to be one with the Creation, 12 billion years ago , he came back to the reincarnation cycle for the people fell away from the spirit teaching, wars ensued, he created a clone army and in 4 years restored peace, came to our universe 389,000 years ago as the first Enoch, of which there were three, the most recent was 9,000 years ago, he came back in the personalities we know as Enoch , Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, Immanuel and Muhammad , teachers of spirit... not trying to ruffle the feathers, this is just my understanding of what i have read ... im not sure i should even say anymore, i dont want trouble ...believe freely as you like about reincarnation ...
    Last edited by ghostrider; 16th November 2016 at 02:26.
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    'IF' isn't true but true is.

    Reincarnation is a story line that is lived, life is the constant.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    If one lives a life long enough and is observant on a whole diffferent level, one will witness reincarnation in action.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    I don't know why i'm compelled to reply to this, maybe cause i sense the same frustration i had.

    The grip of the person construct entity is so tight on Us that everything is seen and diluted
    through it without any chance of being detected initially.
    It takes a long series of such questions to begin to detect that is the questioner that hasn't
    been questioned.

    A simple 101 sketch we can draw is this: Tao (god/brahman/pure awareness) > Soul > Person

    The Tao/Dao/God out of her infinity creativity and in order to experience
    something "Other" than Herself casts out waves of Souls.
    But She can't do that unless She or a part of Her, goes to sleep.
    This is the first I, the pure sense of I exist, like an erection out of a warm sea of pure intelligence and love,
    like a balloon filled with water floating submerged inside an ocean.
    The first sense of differentiation/individuality apart from the all knowing/loving sea of awareness
    and along with it the first sense of fear. Both fear and excitement.
    Like a baby reaching her arms to the yet unknown creation curious to find out about everything
    and still turns her face back to the safety of the Mother.

    This is what "reincarnates", simply means the Soul getting experiences through innumerous
    lifetimes on not just earth but the universe itself.
    Is just that balloon, or baby, accumulating knowledge and shaping Itself in a pristine
    piece of art through the learning process of "fleshing" out the "academic" knowledge
    It has as an All Knowing principle.

    This "in flesh" procedure takes place through the "Person".
    The Soul carefully chooses bodies and personalities that can help Her better
    get what She wants everytime She attempts a new lifetime.
    This "Person" is the culprit We all as Souls stumble upon and have hard time with.
    It's grip is so tight on Us that we currently can't think of Ourselves as anything else
    that this "person". We believe that We are it and rarely anyone of Us reaches the point to
    question that assumption, therefor questions like:
    "who was the first person to ever be created" arise.

    The "person" cannot reincarnate, is just a temporary space suit to live and breathe on a planet
    therefor there wasn't any "first" person that did reincarnate,
    but because we unquestionably assume We are persons it feels natural to ask such questions.
    However, they can't have a satisfying answer until the questioner is being questioned.
    That that does indeed reincarnate, the Soul, we as persons currently have no idea about.
    As the great Tao puts a part of It at sleep and imagines a separate I,
    so does the Soul sleeps a "second" sleep (or fall from Grace if you like)
    and imagines a separate self, the John Doe, the individual person and loves that dream
    so much that forgets Herself in it and adopts this person as Herself
    and She does that until life begins to be so dysfunctional and frustrating,
    torn apart form one crisis to another without a moment's rest,
    so She's compelled to search back to find Her origin and begins to inquiry about Her true nature
    The first genuine "Who am I ?" arises to the person.

    This journey can span out to thousands of years, and then a Soul is not a single one entity,
    it's a vast collection of energies, an ecology of different entities and colors
    making it unique and beautiful, but because currently we thing as persons
    we tent to think Souls as individuals, not at all, a Soul is a wave of aspects
    all working together, some incarnated and others not (spirit guides).

    This little sketch should be giving a first glimpse of the vastness of what's going on,
    therefor Nisargadatta's right again yet limited in perspective and although
    towards the end of his life and under the pressure of many people he did admit
    some aspects of reincarnation, we tend to put an enormous burden of "you should know everything" over the shoulders of some, sometimes completely illiterate, enlightened people.

    tl;dr
    the answer to the first question:
    . No person reincarnates.
    . The good news: you're not a person

    if you still interested we can go through some more later on.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Life is MAGICAL, Death is NORMAL, most Humans are CRUEL.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    I think its man's inability to follow the rules while tempted by prodigal son carnalism that leaves them in a primal state. The rebellion of man, is clearly still visible. Murder, lies, deceit, and theft still played upon the innocent.
    With so many in the 2nd circuit of the brain, I'm thinking they are trying to keep man in this primal state of weakness that prohibits his/forward evolving. Cute trick, if you find the frequency to block a chakra or calcify pineal gland.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Yes it was not Adam but the 1st spiritually conscious couple through various dna crossing in species.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    (ADDRESSED TO "DIM"). This is a very deep rabbit hole. Thank you for the labor and time that it took writing it although a small shadow was cast upon it from your opening statement. I still managed to see through it (dimly) and will study it thoroughly (as I will with the others) to extract from it every ounce of juice.

    I'll be honest; none of these replies are appealing to me because they are "spooky." I like feeling safe and secure with my OWN identity. I find assuring comfort in my shallow rabbit hole. As long as I keep my consciousness on my God consciousness; that primordial ether (CO2) will reshape and conform for me another greater body that will sustain my original (although expanding) personality. All life is based on that Carbon element. (I can eat a tree but I can't eat a wooden desk.) My soul eats the flesh and drinks the blood of my Christ consciousness; therefore I will continue onward alive knowing who I have always been. But again, much appreciation for your time and teaching.

    I AM a champion of Carbon Dioxide only because I experienced Its Life giving affects (effects) after I normalized my breathing. After this the statement:" The Breath of Life," took on a whole new meaning to me. Carbon Dioxide has to be present even in the continuation of conscious awareness.
    Last edited by CO2; 16th November 2016 at 16:33.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Quote Posted by CO2 (here)
    If reincarnation is true
    I will link to an old post, which answers your questions....but only from my limited perspective....

    This post



    Last edited by lake; 17th November 2016 at 09:58.
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Could it not be possible for reincarnation to be true for some, but not others? I find that plausible, because assuming it is the spirit which is reincarnating, the spirit would logically have to have been "born" at some point.

    I've been told by a member of my family in no uncertain terms that there are "no new spirits being born" (probably came from chanelled source), and so the burning question then becomes WHY? Assuming THAT is true, sounds kindof sad, to me.

    The part in the OP about God being irresponsible made me laugh a bit.... I mean really!!! Perhaps God's just trying to keep us safe, who knows.

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    Default Re: If reincarnation is true...

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    Could it not be possible for reincarnation to be true for some, but not others? I find that plausible, because assuming it is the spirit which is reincarnating, the spirit would logically have to have been "born" at some point.

    I've been told by a member of my family in no uncertain terms that there are "no new spirits being born" and so the burning question then becomes WHY?
    Nice to see ya Petra

    From my point of view....many do not exist and are created by YOU, so they in the 'normal' sequence cannot reincarnate!
    But because YOU gave them a 'part to play' it is quite possible for them to begin a journey. To do this they would need to start questioning whether they have individualism? They would need to use the creation YOU gave to become self aware of others!
    They can only BE as an individual, same as YOU.......there are not 2 of YOU....but there must be a unique perception, an interpretation which does not require another to confirm! (in this world)

    It is possible that no new 'individuals' are 'becoming'!
    It is possible that I am wrong and this world/place is a womb.......and that is why there is a want for a spiritual birth control??

    Only thoughts, nothing more, considerations!
    Normal..!

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