Not Quite Farewell

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Iloveyou (here)
I‘d like to add an additional parallel storyline to the above:

With the refugee/immigrant influx they created a large, heterogeneous group of people (including criminal gangs and provocateurs brought in on purpose) as scapegoat - so that the population is divided in opposite factions and ready to fight each other - to keep them busy and distract them from looking at the satanic pedophilia practices of the elite (which are essential for their existence).

I'd say there's a huge amount of truth in that.

The point it that it's a deliberate agenda. And it's gradually destroying Europe. (The USA is next, folks.)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. And they are NOT against liberty and freedom for all good people.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour . In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour . In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right.

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour . In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right.

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour . In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right.

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

Great post, and I'd expect nothing less.

BUT... re

some views that might easily qualify as racist

...what's the 'qualification', and who sets it??

(Btw, this exchange might best be moved over to the Racism thread, and I may do that later.)

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

BUT... re

some views that might easily qualify as racist

...what's the 'qualification', and who sets it??

If someone says, "Muslims are ruining <blah blah blah>" (I know Muslims aren't a race, just an example), when they more intended to express something different, should their wording be ignored, even if some of us interpret what they say as just a rough expression that they probably meant to say differently? Would not addressing it be potentially enabling wording that is not really appropriate for what the intended expression was?

So "qualification" may well vary a large amount, and, in the case of this forum, it is yourself and the mods that ultimately determine this, as it relates to user activities on it.

In the larger scenario, the qualifiers are each individual. And as established, this will vary a large amount from view to view. If one is ultimately concerned, they will take great care to express themselves on the "safe" side of that variability. Those who do not, may be less concerned about the overall larger picture, and more about their views on race. Should we use this as a "litmus test" for "qualification"? I don't know, but perhaps we can use it to provide guidance around communication.

[Tangri]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour . In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right.

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

Thank you,

Nazi s invaded south America with their money years ago and now relatively(for locals) rich Europeans do same, takes no attention for South America's immigration problem. Only west is complaining( like crocodile tears).

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Tangri (here)

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.

Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.

• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1149600

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.

Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.

• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1149600

<reviews Bill's linked post>

That post was on the bleeding edge, lol. And I commend Dennis and Rachel for handling it the way they did. That post is an excellent example of the need to take care with your communications; Marique could have made some good points, without the gross negative generalizations (that rendered her view false) and it would have had more value if she had. But we're not the "post police" (well maybe I am sometimes ) except where forum rules are clearly broken. There was certainly a very general anti-muslim tone in that post and the points fall apart when seen as coming from a "racists" perspective (as can be seen by the two mods responses to that post). so it is somewhat self correcting (with the help of people who see things objectively and can communicate clearly that objectivity). Anyway, my intention was not to get into this specific conversation ... cheers!

[Tangri]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.


Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.

• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1149600

- ". That's not what she said... your memory has changed it."

If My memory changed it, is it done by words or meaning? Lets compare it if there is any my ill intention on it.

She wrote "Would you put your child in a room with many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not, would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake."

I remember and quoted as " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson (you are claiming -it was not what she said.

Quote from her post-would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake.-) My recollection was right, it was hard for her to separate not poisonous snakes from whole snake group for her risk assessment.

With this sentence ( many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not)

All they are snakes and poisonous with few exception.
Post#192



https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1152666

(she edited her post after it had been reported)

Not quite well, as it has been done at her post #204

"Something I am not proud of and working on trying to change, but yes, I can honestly say that I would not shut my kids in a room of poisonous deadly snakes along with non poisonous ones, and hope that they are not bitten and killed. I stand by that."
-------------------
"And you were never 'forced' into silence"

I wrote "I was forced kindly to get silent"

Referring to this post;

"Deep breaths! You have the option of private message if you wish to continue personal discussions." Post#213 (it was kindly for me)

I was driven to private room to discus her racistic remarks.

She never apologized and mod team supported her as she was the victim there.
De Dukshyn's quote;

"So "qualification" may well vary a large amount, and, in the case of this forum, it is yourself and the mods that ultimately determine this, as it relates to user activities on it. "

ps" you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

[Michelle Marie]

Looks like she apologized. How about some "Love and Hope"?

Racism and racist remarks come from people who have not learned something yet. But with interaction, and love, we can give them the space to grow.

I got in big trouble in my family for NOT being racist. Wasn't treated well. Things did change over time.

I'm sure it was love that changed things. I did not become racist. The change was on the other end, and I was accepted.

This thread is about immigration, which does not signify racism, but maybe the infiltration of a culture that wants to stay intact. From the discussions regarding immigration that I have seen, there are standards of people (wanting upstanding citizens, not gangs or criminals) and common sense immigration laws.

Having goodwill toward all, we should be able to come up with wise solutions that protect cultures while offering limited (based on standards of moral and ethical conduct) and lawful immigration.

It's good to have discussion and learn from each other. I sure do appreciate all the views that broaden my understanding.

MM

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Tangri (here)
... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...

Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.

[Tangri]

I will go into silent after your kindly post and it's supportive thanks by highly respected Moderators , administrators and greetings member, with holding my rights to remind later on suitable post.

"This thread is about immigration, which does not signify racism."

Just last friendly reminder; this thread was for, "TO FIND OUT" why people living Avalon and erasing their post

[Tangri]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)
... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...

Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.

Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Tangri (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)
... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...

Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.

Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

No. Mostly because I don't really care about this specific incident at all. My points were intended to be able to apply broadly . I try to stay out of the details of actual "incidents" themselves on purpose. I digressed a little from that to make the comment on that post. You may have noticed this is my style. I tend to take the more philosophical approach.

[Tangri]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)
... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...

Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.

Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

No. Mostly because I don't really care about this specific incident at all. My points were intended to be able to apply broadly . I try to stay out of the details actual "incidents" themselves on purpose. I digressed a little from that to make the comment on that post. You may have noticed this is my style. I tend to take the more philosophical approach.

Thank you, but my question was used as plural as some one edit your post.

Now I will " tend to take the more philosophical approach"