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Thread: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

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    Lightbulb Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    I've looked at various computer circuits, the boards on Dell computers for instance, using the RealTek chipset talked about in the article - https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1611/1611.07350.pdf

    The researchers at BenGurion University, Israel, published that PDF sometime(?) they don't state when they published the article.

    Reading it closely, pulling up the ReakTek audio chipsets datasheets and schematics (used in a LOT of computers for audio handling both input and output) I can verify that the ALs262 codecs (the audio chipsets), do have BI-DIRECTIONAL audio ports (connections)..

    This BenGurion University article has created a bit of a 'firestorm' on various reporting websites, citing 'with special code even your speaker, or headphone speaker(s) can be used to spy on you'

    In this Bengurion article, they go at LENGTH to try to prove that microphones can be made out of speakers.. (that has been known since the time of Edison).. and they go at length talking about certain demonstration codecs being reconfigured and connected up to speakers to RECORD AUDIO..

    Here is the reality though...

    One's PC (personal computer) uses the codec (the device that changes computer signals into audio, and audio (from your mike or line input) back into digitized computer code..

    From the CODEC OUTPUT (the audio output line), for one's speakers, such goes to an OUTPUT ONLY amplifier chip (takes the very low current signals from the codec's output and converts it to be able to drive the PC's speakers). MEANING the path is ONE WAY, from the chip to the AMP to the SPEAKER(s)..

    There is no back feed from the PC's speakers to any INPUT on the RealTek codec..

    If one plugs one's headphone into the MIKE input of the PC, the PC's normal recording feature, called MIKE will be able to serve as a very poor response microphone. Nothing special there..

    What the article alludes to is IF the heaphone speaker is LEFT plugged into the AUDIO OUTPUT jack for the PC, that the HEADPHONE can be used as a mike, by RETASKING the AUDIO OUTPUT jack into an audio INPUT JACK..

    Well.. I pulled a DELL PC Schematic and took a close look at the RealTek codec, the amplifier chips for dedicated OUTPUT for both the internal speakers AND the HEADPHONE - there are NO INPUTs re-connected to the OUTPUTS..

    ONE can create a software BRIDGE loop where the INPUT is connected PRIOR to the output amplifier.. meaning a low level loop is able to be created, but, the SPEAKER and the HEADSET (speaker) is electrically ISOLATED by the 'output amplifier'.. There is NO WAY to bridge the actual output back to the input circuit, or to have in some way a ONE WAY audio output amplifier act in REVERSE..

    So my feeling is the article really is more mis-leading creating FEAR-PORN that one's plugged in headphone can be reverse tasked to be a mike when plugged into it's normal AUDIO OUTPUT jack, or that one's internal PC speakers can be a mike by messing with software drivers for the Codec.

    Attached are the references to the PC schematic, showing the Codec, and OUTPUT and INPUT jacks, speakers and the driving AMPLIFIER..

    Also are the references to some of the other websites which picked up the "fear porn" or misrepresentation article created by Ben-Gurion's researchers doing the 'experiments'.

    Where the exaggeration happened, is from this - the CHIPSET by REALTEK allows for retasking inputs to be outputs, and outputs to be inputs. In CODE one says what the chip's PIN does. So that is where the article builds ALL its claims from.. BUT in reality, manufacturers HAVE TO ADD buffering and isolation amplifiers, which are ONE WAY, not TWO WAY.. MEANING because how in reality PC's are built, there is NO security issue about one's headphone jack (OUTPUT) being able to become a spyware mike, and certainly no way for one's built-in speakers able to be spyware mikes...

    ON some motherboards, there are discrete AUDIO INPUTS and OUTPUTS which can be reconfigured, but they are LOW LEVEL signals, incapable of driving speakers.. No one will be plugging a speaker into one of those low level signal jacks. Can a mike be plugged into one of those reconfigured Jacks? No doubt.. but the point of the article is one's speakers OR headphones can be re-configured to be spyware (poor quality mikes)..

    So, in the minimum - fear porn, or sensationalism to exploit a particular chipset's I/O (input output pins).

    Are there some specific motherboards which will allow one to bypass and reconfigure buffer amplifiers? That is to be seen. Why anyone would configure their PC to be setup that way doesn't make any sense.

    On the DELL schematic I didn't see a way to bypass the buffer/isolation amplifiers..

    References -
    Ben-Gurion article - https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1611/1611.07350.pdf
    RealTek Codec - http://datasheet.datasheetarchive.co...LD00003436.pdf
    Dell computer schematic - showing the coded wiring, jack wiring, etc - http://www.informaticanapoli.it/down...%20diagram.pdf
    http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news...nd-spy-on-you/ - bleeping computer, headphones can be used to record nearby audio and spy on you

    Digital trends article about turning speakers into mikes - http://www.digitaltrends.com/music/h...e-for-hackers/

    Summary - hardly likely to be of any concern... IF a speaker is plugged in, into any jack that can be reconfigured, the speaker has to be AMPLIFIED, using a ONE WAY device, audio can't go back in across a one way OUT device..

    IF one has a LIST Of computers which DO have a way to bypass the audio driver AMP(s) for both the headphone and/or speakers, please by all means post a LIST HERE. Those computers potentially could pose a risk for having a properly plugged in HEADPHONE on the side jack of the PC to become a poor quality mike..

    IF there is a concern about some unknown PC having the headphone jack re-configured, simply UNPLUG the headphone. The built-in speaker circuit because of the ONE WAY amplifier, can't be reverse used as a mike.
    Last edited by Bob; 24th November 2016 at 00:14.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    My little dog was giving me concern as I had found a lump in her breast tissue, I had talked about it with my son, made an appointment with the vet, I had not used the PC to make a search about the condition.

    Alarm bells rang when a pop up ad appeared concerning "Those lumps in our canine friends may not be harmful" or somthing similar. What the heck was that all about? I told my son -he said I had probably done a search- I assured him I had not.

    Yesterday on radio 4 Today programme they did an article about Cortana and similar voice recognition progs
    they finished by saying no information was saved by this tech, well I just don't believe that do you?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08fg37n Start at 1.43
    Last edited by sheme; 9th February 2017 at 17:45.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

     
    I keep my mic muted all the time when plugged in and not in use (or on my head being used as headphone only) - recommended.

    But yeah, most mics on headsets only can get decent sound if the sound source is directly next to them.

    BTW Bob it's "mic" not "Mike" -- -- one is my name - the other transforms vibrational energy into electricity.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 10th February 2017 at 00:22.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
     
    I keep my mic muted all the time when plugged in and not in use (or on my head being used as headphone only) - recommended.

    But yeah, most mics on headsets only can get decent sound if the sound source is directly next to them.

    BTW Bob it's "mic" not "Mike" -- -- one is my name - the other transforms vibrational energy into electricity.
    Quote Mic vs. mike
    Both mike and mic commonly appear as shortened forms of microphone, but mike is the accepted spelling in most dictionaries.

    Mic presents difficulties because it looks like it should be pronounced mick and because it produces the problematic participles miced and micing.

    Miked and miking work better. Of course, however the word is spelled, it is a verb mainly in the phrase mic/mike up, meaning to put a mic on someone or something
    .
    Source - http://grammarist.com/spelling/mic-mike/

    I'll stick with "Mike" when talking about Microphones

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
     
    I keep my mic muted all the time when plugged in and not in use (or on my head being used as headphone only) - recommended.

    But yeah, most mics on headsets only can get decent sound if the sound source is directly next to them.

    BTW Bob it's "mic" not "Mike" -- -- one is my name - the other transforms vibrational energy into electricity.
    Quote Mic vs. mike
    Both mike and mic commonly appear as shortened forms of microphone, but mike is the accepted spelling in most dictionaries.

    Mic presents difficulties because it looks like it should be pronounced mick and because it produces the problematic participles miced and micing.

    Miked and miking work better. Of course, however the word is spelled, it is a verb mainly in the phrase mic/mike up, meaning to put a mic on someone or something
    .
    Source - http://grammarist.com/spelling/mic-mike/

    I'll stick with "Mike" when talking about Microphones
    Amateur. Maybe it's a "Canadian" thing, but in professional circles here (I do some audio video stuff, both pro and hobby), "Mike" would be laughed at or a "noob" way to spell it. Just saying ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Must be the Canadians against the Americans, once again. Parlor, Parlour, neighbor, neighbour, etc. But hey, I am French speaking, so what do I know? you can laugh at me all you want...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
     
    I keep my mic muted all the time when plugged in and not in use (or on my head being used as headphone only) - recommended.

    But yeah, most mics on headsets only can get decent sound if the sound source is directly next to them.

    BTW Bob it's "mic" not "Mike" -- -- one is my name - the other transforms vibrational energy into electricity.
    Quote Mic vs. mike
    Both mike and mic commonly appear as shortened forms of microphone, but mike is the accepted spelling in most dictionaries.

    Mic presents difficulties because it looks like it should be pronounced mick and because it produces the problematic participles miced and micing.

    Miked and miking work better. Of course, however the word is spelled, it is a verb mainly in the phrase mic/mike up, meaning to put a mic on someone or something
    .
    Source - http://grammarist.com/spelling/mic-mike/

    I'll stick with "Mike" when talking about Microphones
    Amateur. Maybe it's a "Canadian" thing, but in professional circles here (I do some audio video stuff, both pro and hobby), "Mike" would be laughed at or a "noob" way to spell it. Just saying ...
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Must be the Canadians against the Americans, once again. Parlor, Parlour, neighbor, neighbour, etc. But hey, I am French speaking, so what do I know? you can laugh at me all you want...
    I looked into it a bit, it's seems an "old school" / "new school" thing, Bob has a few years on me
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Naw, POLITICS changed the proper pronunciation from MIKE to MIC.. (see below)

    Here is some more historical classical use of the term:

    Quote Electro Voice (EV) has a long and illustrious history in the electronics industry. Starting as a relatively small company near the start of the Great Depression. Check Wikipedia for a brief history of the company. EV began manufacturing inexpensive carbon and later crystal microphones mainly for PA systems and ham radio operators.

    Like several other smaller manufacturers, EV had a tough time breaking into the broadcast and recording markets. In the mid 1930s EV designed a line of inexpensive but quality ribbon mikes to go along with their carbon and crystal models. These ribbon mikes had a shape similar to RCAs design yet at a much lower price. EV continued this line of ribbon mikes into the 1950s. Modesto's KMOD used an EV ribbon in their control room in the early 50s as seen in photos on this website. Modesto station KBOX also used the EV ribbons.[1]

    EV really began to try to crack the broadcast market in the late 40s when they began to build high quality dynamic mikes. The development that really gave EV a boost was their “Acoustalloy” nonmetallic diphragm. This diaphragm was made from mylar plastic material and proved to be excellent at translating sound waves into electrical signals.

    In 1950 EV came out with three revolutionary omni-directional dynamics that caused quite a stir in the audio industry. These mikes were one inch in diameter, which was much smaller than previous dynamic units. [2] As we related in our previous article on the American Microphone Company...American came out with their one inch diameter mikes at about this same time. http://www.modestoradiomuseum.org/mi...0man%2013.html
    Drake Ham Radio manual - "Push the button and TALK INTO THE MIKE" - http://w5jgv.com/downloads/Drake%20T...r%20Manual.pdf

    Quote Talk into the mike at normal voice level and increase the GAIN control until the plate [..]
    April 1937 - HISTORY Radio Daily (Historical Journal of Radio Broadcasting)

    MIKE was used, not "mic", historically, and of course classically.

    Quote How Should ‘Microphone’ be Abbreviated?
    By BEN ZIMMERJULY 29, 2010
    In my recent column on the expression "rock the mic," I wrote that "the M.C.'s of early hip-hop took the verb [rock] in a new direction, transforming the microphone (abbreviated in rap circles as mic, not mike) into an emblem of stylish display." Laurence Reich e-mails regarding mic: "I must confess I have never seen that word before. I've only seen mike for that usage." Ted Estersohn e-mails: "As far as I can tell mic the short form has always been spelled in audio and engineering circles with a 'c,' like an abbreviation and not like the boy's name."

    The respondents on this one fell evenly into two camps: those like Reich who were unfamiliar with the shortening of microphone as mic and those like Estersohn who noted that mic is the prevailing form not just in rap circles but also among recording professionals more generally.

    Mike came first, documented from the early days of radio. In the June 1923 issue of The Wireless Age, a photo caption of Samuel L. Rothafel (who was known as Roxy and who was broadcasting concert programs from New York's Capitol Theater) reads, "When you hear Roxy talk about 'Mike' he means the microphone."

    This suggests the abbreviation arose as a kind of nickname, playfully anthropomorphizing the microphone as Mike.

    But by 1926, when the pioneering broadcaster Graham McNamee published his book "You're on the Air," mike appeared in lowercase, not as a name.

    During broadcasts of baseball games, McNamee wrote, "the man at the 'mike' watches each play."

    Mic didn't begin appearing in written works for another few decades, first recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary in Al Berkman's 1961 "Singers' Glossary of Show Business Jargon."

    Berkman offered both mike and mic as possible clippings of microphone.

    Since then, mic has grown in popularity among those who work with recording equipment.

    The preference for mic likely stems from the way the abbreviation is rendered on the equipment itself: a microphone might be labeled "Mic No. 1," for instance.

    And if you're in the market for a microphone preamplifier, you'll find it written as "mic preamp."

    It makes sense, then, that the early rappers of the South Bronx, intimately familiar with the sound systems that powered their performances, would take to the mic spelling.

    It also explains why The Associated Press Stylebook earlier this year reversed its advice to abbreviate microphone as mike.

    As the stylebook's editors told the American Copy Editors Society in April, the A.P.'s broadcast division was unhappy with mike, and so the entry was revised to recommend mic instead.

    Some of the copy editors voiced objections to the A.P.'s amended edict, on the grounds that mic could confuse readers who might be tempted to pronounce it as "mick."

    The Washington Post's Bill Walsh pressed the stylebook editors on the verb form: is a person mic'ed or miked?

    The A.P. style gurus allowed that the verb could be miked, even if the noun is mic.

    The grumbling over mic emerges from its seeming violation of English pronunciation rules.

    Bicycle is abbreviated as bike, after all, not bic. But we do occasionally allow a mismatch between the spelling of an abbreviation and how it looks like it ought to be pronounced. Vegetable is shortened to veg, and Reginald to Reg, but the final g is not a "hard" one as in peg or leg.

    So let the musicians and broadcasters have their mic, but as for me, I still like mike.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/ma...anguage-t.html
    "Mic" also is a slang term, rather detrimental.. see: http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/...7146-237776671 "the worst Irish insults"

    Us old folk prefer the classical "Mike'd", "Talk into the Mike ..."

    Defense, or Defence Department - depends on where one's mind lives..

    Analyze, or Analyse - same thing, some are preferred in different country's books.


    Quote editors told the American Copy Editors Society in April, the A.P.'s broadcast division was unhappy with mike, and so the entry was revised to recommend mic instead.
    But some complained, and some then preferred MIC over MIKE..

    Me, I am OLD SCHOOL and prefer to stay that way, where technology was designed, not where politically created "slang" took over for whatever reason became "pro-trendy"..

    Throat MIKE -

    throat microphone - "(Broadcasting) a type of microphone that is held against the throat to pick up voice vibrations. Also called: throat mike"

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us...sh/throat-mike - Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers


    From - http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/S...52-15_1970.pdf about the VIETNAM MANPACK RADIO - (hate that era in history)


    Ear "Mike" (as labeled by the Manufacturer) - "the Whisper MIKE"


    Nah Flash, it's about being classic or "CLASSIC" whether or not one is historically accurate or "modern slang accurate", motivated by the "POLITICS" established by the "stylebook's editors" (see quotes above)..

    More images using MIKE verses MIC





    Engineering SCHEMATIC (USED IN INDUSTRY/TRADE to denote actual CIRCUIT DESIGNS)



    taking the thread "off topic" was interesting verifying the "HISTORY" of MIKE's for communications equipment...

    Frankly this expression "Pick up that MIC would you?" just is not descriptive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick_Up_the_Mic

    Quote Homohop is a growing subgenre of aggressive pro-gay lyrics directly confronting the perceived homophobia of mainstream rap. It is a significant underground gay hip hop movement, spearheaded by many of the artists profiled in Pick Up the Mic.

    The performance footage in the documentary was shot at the PeaceOUT World Homo Hop Festival in Oakland, California between 2002 and 2004, and Peace Out East, a sister festival in New York City curated by Judge "Dutchboy" Muscat and Shante "Paradigm" Smalls.

    All of the artists featured in Pick Up the Mic have released multiple independent recordings and have toured the United States and internationally over the past several years.

    Katastrophe, Deep Dickollective and Scream Club have been among the most prolific, with the Scream Club making several tours across Europe in recent years, where they have developed a cult-like following.
    Last edited by Bob; 10th February 2017 at 03:34.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

     

    Me, I'm just ultra logical and to me "mic" as abbreviation or short for microphone makes sense as opposed to calling it something that can be confused with the name of a person - superior classification in my mere opinion, Thus I support the new school way.

    Anyway, yes,
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    I do think it is bad form to hijack a potentially important thread to argue about nomenclature, we are being spied on for goodness sake get our priorities right- if I did not know better i'd say this behaviour is a pure OP distraction.

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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    What about Amazon's 'Echo'? Always on, always listening...


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    Default Re: Supposedly 'new' security risk, speakers and headphones on one's PC turned into mikes

    Quote Posted by sheme (here)
    I do think it is bad form to hijack a potentially important thread to argue about nomenclature, we are being spied on for goodness sake get our priorities right- if I did not know better i'd say this behaviour is a pure OP distraction.
    It's a good thing you know better.

    The OP story is doubt being cast on the theory that headphones and speakers can be easily used to spy on us. Technically it can be done, but the usefulness of making a speaker into a microphone is low. They are generally inefficient. That said, many headsets for business or gaming already have built in microphones - as mentioned I keep mine always muted unless I am actually using it.

    I also do not use the Realtek soundcard outputs on my computer - I use an external USB Tascam soundcard that allows me to connect musical equipment to it. You are only being potentially spied on by these devices if you allow it.

    An external soundcard can easily solve the "potential" issue if one is fearful.

    Here is a video relating to the OP PDF:

    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 12th February 2017 at 19:32.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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