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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
    But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.
    Following is an email that came out today in Organic Consumers Association, and it's in the spirit of what I hope we will be seeing much more of:

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    I don't believe he tweeted that.
    https://action.organicconsumers.org/...st_KEY=1364712
    Quote Today, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States.

    Today, I'm announcing our #ConsumerRevolution and #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020 platforms.

    If Hillary Clinton were placing her hand on a Bible today, promising to protect the U.S. Constitution, we would be organizing a massive movement to change her positions on many issues, including war, Big Ag and GMOs.

    If Bernie Sanders were taking the oath of office today, we would be celebrating his authenticity, and his solid track record (not just lip-service) of support for at least 90 percent of the issues we care about. Then we’d get to work on the other 10 percent—with hope and enthusiasm.

    But today, we will witness the swearing in of a president who has signaled loud and clear his intent to maximize the profits of giant corporations—like Exxon Mobil, BP, and Monsanto and Bayer (whose merger he's set to approve)—on a scale never before seen in our lifetimes. Public and environmental health be damned.

    Trump has appointed a slate of millionaire and billionaire corporate cronies to key, powerful positions, with orders to immediately set to work rolling back any regulations or policies that even hint at cutting into corporate profits. We will have an EPA Administrator, an Energy Secretary and a head of the CIA who largely reject the international scientific consensus that human behavior is a contributing factor to global warming.

    We will have billionaire bankers running the U.S. Treasury Department and the American economy.

    And yesterday we learned, not surprisingly, that the new USDA Secretary of Agriculture will be former Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue. Another millionaire climate-denier, Perdue is a cheerleader for the worst of the worst agribusiness corporations. Based on his history, Perdue will have no interest in protecting the interests of rural farmers, farm workers or consumers from the routine poisoning of our food, water and air by factory farms, pesticides and GMOs.

    We have our work cut out for us in the coming months and years. As Frances Fox Piven, a professor of political science and sociology, recently wrote, we’ll need to keep signing petitions, but that won't be enough. We’ll need to, as she said, “throw sand in the gears of everything” just to protect the most basic of human rights.

    With that in mind, we have developed two platforms that will guide our work, beginning immediately.

    #Consumer Revolution 2017-2020

    Overarching goal: Force corporations that sell consumer products, including food, clothing, drugs and personal care products, to respond to consumer demand for truthfully labeled products that have a positive impact on human health and are produced using regenerative processes and practices that not only prevent harm to human health and the environment but also measurably improve soils and combat global warming.

    (1) Move toward making organic, 100% grass-fed, and regenerative food and farming the norm, not just the 5-percent alternative in the marketplace, by doubling sales of organic to $80 billion by 2020, and by increasing sales of U.S. grass-fed meat and dairy, and organic and pastured poultry and pork by at least 400 percent by 2020.

    (2) Achieve a 50-percent reduction in sales of GMO food and animal feed by 2020, with the aim of driving GMO animal feed off the market.

    (3) Force major food brands and companies that fraudulently label their products as “natural,” “organic” or “GMO-free” to remove misleading labels and/or transition their products and production methods to organic and/or regenerative practices.

    (4) Increase market share for clothing made from organic cotton, wool and other natural fibers through a high-profile “Care What You Wear” campaign that encourages consumers to boycott GMO cotton and synthetic fibers.

    #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020

    Overarching goal: Reform the current political process to create a democracy that works for all people, not just wealthy corporations and the 1%, by uniting the food, climate, economic and social justice, natural health and peace movements in a coordinated effort to support candidates, elected public officials and policies, at the local, state and federal levels, that support our common goals.

    (1) Support the candidates and elected officials endorsed by the post-Bernie Sanders movements, including “Brand New Congress” and “Our Revolution.”

    (2) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support OCA’s #ConsumerRevolution platform

    (3) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support the “Our Revolution” platform, with the addition of:

    • on climate: a focus on regenerative agriculture and soil carbon sequestration as a global warming solution, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy

    • on healthcare: a focus on "Medicare for all" that includes coverage for preventive, natural and alternative healthcare solutions

    • on living wage: a focus on raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour so that lower-income Americans can afford organic food

    (4) Organize local grassroots meet-ups and coalitions to run candidates, for local and state offices, who support our issues.

    (5) Oppose any candidates or policies that promote racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism and all forms of discrimination, whenever and wherever they arise.

    (6) Oppose any laws or illegal attempts to disenfranchise voters.

    (7) Support the decriminalization of drug use, including the legalization of marijuana, and oppose the war on drugs.

    (8) Combat climate change by promoting candidates and policies that advance regenerative food, farming and land use, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy, as solutions for achieving zero emissions, for reversing global warming by sequestering excess CO2 and greenhouse gases in soil and forests, and for addressing our public health, water and environmental crises.

    Why do we need a revolution?

    Our democracy is broken. Under the Trump Administration, we could witness the final collapse.

    The handful of corporations that control our food, farming, energy and pharmaceutical industries have corrupted the marketplace to the point that it generates enormous profits for CEOs and shareholders at the expense of workers, consumer choice, human health and the environment.

    Our political process no longer works for a majority of people in this country, much less for the future of the common good. The failure of this process can be traced to the disproportionate influence of corporations and the uber-wealthy (1%) on policymaking, either through direct lobbying or by using generous campaign contributions to buy the loyalty of incumbent and/or future politicians.

    These systemic failures originated and are perpetuated from the top down. They will be corrected only by a bottom-up grassroots rejection of the status quo, by a critical mass of citizens who hold a new, more hopeful vision for a healthier, safer, more equitable future.

    What can you do?

    Today, I call on you personally to get involved in our consumer and political revolutions. OCA and our allies will be organizing as never before at the local and state levels, pulling together the energy and talents of people young and old, from environmental, social justice, peace—every movement that shares our vision.

    We’ll need people who live in and understand the needs of rural communities. We’ll need city dwellers. We’ll need lawyers and accountants. Farmers and factory workers. Moms and Dads.

    We will have to work together, for each other. Because it's clear that our elected officials will not be working for us.

    It’s time to get out from behind our laptops and cell phones, to break out of our silos, to break the pattern of single-issue organizing.
    etc.

    Maybe we've all learned something after all the years of lies and deceit.
    Last edited by onawah; 22nd January 2017 at 05:26.
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  3. Link to Post #182
    Hong Kong Avalon Member syrwong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Top Russian officials certainly don't think Trump is the answer. From RT:

    Regardless of the results of elections in any foreign nations, Russia should expect the sanctions imposed on it by the West to remain in place, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said.

    “It’s time to discard the illusions that any sanctions imposed on our country would be lifted. Obviously, they are there to stay for a long time. And don’t lay your hopes on someone else’s elections,” he said Sunday, in a speech addressing a United Russia party meeting in Moscow.
    Some political experts both in Russia and elsewhere suggested that the election of Donald Trump as the new US president may lead to the lifting of anti-Russian sanctions by America and its allies, based on Trump’s statements that he would work with Russia. Senior Russian officials warned against such optimism, saying that campaign rhetoric does not necessarily translate into policies.


    To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.

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  5. Link to Post #183
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Not just rather naive--incredibly naive!!
    After 8 years of Obama, "A Legacy of Ashes", I don't think it's too much to hope that humanity is wiser now.
    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)

    To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.
    Each breath a gift...
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  7. Link to Post #184
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
    But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.
    Following is an email that came out today in Organic Consumers Association, and it's in the spirit of what I hope we will be seeing much more of:

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    I don't believe he tweeted that.
    https://action.organicconsumers.org/...st_KEY=1364712
    Quote Today, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States.

    Today, I'm announcing our #ConsumerRevolution and #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020 platforms.

    If Hillary Clinton were placing her hand on a Bible today, promising to protect the U.S. Constitution, we would be organizing a massive movement to change her positions on many issues, including war, Big Ag and GMOs.

    If Bernie Sanders were taking the oath of office today, we would be celebrating his authenticity, and his solid track record (not just lip-service) of support for at least 90 percent of the issues we care about. Then we’d get to work on the other 10 percent—with hope and enthusiasm.

    But today, we will witness the swearing in of a president who has signaled loud and clear his intent to maximize the profits of giant corporations—like Exxon Mobil, BP, and Monsanto and Bayer (whose merger he's set to approve)—on a scale never before seen in our lifetimes. Public and environmental health be damned.

    Trump has appointed a slate of millionaire and billionaire corporate cronies to key, powerful positions, with orders to immediately set to work rolling back any regulations or policies that even hint at cutting into corporate profits. We will have an EPA Administrator, an Energy Secretary and a head of the CIA who largely reject the international scientific consensus that human behavior is a contributing factor to global warming.

    We will have billionaire bankers running the U.S. Treasury Department and the American economy.

    And yesterday we learned, not surprisingly, that the new USDA Secretary of Agriculture will be former Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue. Another millionaire climate-denier, Perdue is a cheerleader for the worst of the worst agribusiness corporations. Based on his history, Perdue will have no interest in protecting the interests of rural farmers, farm workers or consumers from the routine poisoning of our food, water and air by factory farms, pesticides and GMOs.

    We have our work cut out for us in the coming months and years. As Frances Fox Piven, a professor of political science and sociology, recently wrote, we’ll need to keep signing petitions, but that won't be enough. We’ll need to, as she said, “throw sand in the gears of everything” just to protect the most basic of human rights.

    With that in mind, we have developed two platforms that will guide our work, beginning immediately.

    #Consumer Revolution 2017-2020

    Overarching goal: Force corporations that sell consumer products, including food, clothing, drugs and personal care products, to respond to consumer demand for truthfully labeled products that have a positive impact on human health and are produced using regenerative processes and practices that not only prevent harm to human health and the environment but also measurably improve soils and combat global warming.

    (1) Move toward making organic, 100% grass-fed, and regenerative food and farming the norm, not just the 5-percent alternative in the marketplace, by doubling sales of organic to $80 billion by 2020, and by increasing sales of U.S. grass-fed meat and dairy, and organic and pastured poultry and pork by at least 400 percent by 2020.

    (2) Achieve a 50-percent reduction in sales of GMO food and animal feed by 2020, with the aim of driving GMO animal feed off the market.

    (3) Force major food brands and companies that fraudulently label their products as “natural,” “organic” or “GMO-free” to remove misleading labels and/or transition their products and production methods to organic and/or regenerative practices.

    (4) Increase market share for clothing made from organic cotton, wool and other natural fibers through a high-profile “Care What You Wear” campaign that encourages consumers to boycott GMO cotton and synthetic fibers.

    #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020

    Overarching goal: Reform the current political process to create a democracy that works for all people, not just wealthy corporations and the 1%, by uniting the food, climate, economic and social justice, natural health and peace movements in a coordinated effort to support candidates, elected public officials and policies, at the local, state and federal levels, that support our common goals.

    (1) Support the candidates and elected officials endorsed by the post-Bernie Sanders movements, including “Brand New Congress” and “Our Revolution.”

    (2) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support OCA’s #ConsumerRevolution platform

    (3) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support the “Our Revolution” platform, with the addition of:

    • on climate: a focus on regenerative agriculture and soil carbon sequestration as a global warming solution, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy

    • on healthcare: a focus on "Medicare for all" that includes coverage for preventive, natural and alternative healthcare solutions

    • on living wage: a focus on raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour so that lower-income Americans can afford organic food

    (4) Organize local grassroots meet-ups and coalitions to run candidates, for local and state offices, who support our issues.

    (5) Oppose any candidates or policies that promote racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism and all forms of discrimination, whenever and wherever they arise.

    (6) Oppose any laws or illegal attempts to disenfranchise voters.

    (7) Support the decriminalization of drug use, including the legalization of marijuana, and oppose the war on drugs.

    (8) Combat climate change by promoting candidates and policies that advance regenerative food, farming and land use, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy, as solutions for achieving zero emissions, for reversing global warming by sequestering excess CO2 and greenhouse gases in soil and forests, and for addressing our public health, water and environmental crises.

    Why do we need a revolution?

    Our democracy is broken. Under the Trump Administration, we could witness the final collapse.

    The handful of corporations that control our food, farming, energy and pharmaceutical industries have corrupted the marketplace to the point that it generates enormous profits for CEOs and shareholders at the expense of workers, consumer choice, human health and the environment.

    Our political process no longer works for a majority of people in this country, much less for the future of the common good. The failure of this process can be traced to the disproportionate influence of corporations and the uber-wealthy (1%) on policymaking, either through direct lobbying or by using generous campaign contributions to buy the loyalty of incumbent and/or future politicians.

    These systemic failures originated and are perpetuated from the top down. They will be corrected only by a bottom-up grassroots rejection of the status quo, by a critical mass of citizens who hold a new, more hopeful vision for a healthier, safer, more equitable future.

    What can you do?

    Today, I call on you personally to get involved in our consumer and political revolutions. OCA and our allies will be organizing as never before at the local and state levels, pulling together the energy and talents of people young and old, from environmental, social justice, peace—every movement that shares our vision.

    We’ll need people who live in and understand the needs of rural communities. We’ll need city dwellers. We’ll need lawyers and accountants. Farmers and factory workers. Moms and Dads.

    We will have to work together, for each other. Because it's clear that our elected officials will not be working for us.

    It’s time to get out from behind our laptops and cell phones, to break out of our silos, to break the pattern of single-issue organizing.
    etc.

    Maybe we've all learned something after all the years of lies and deceit.
    I far prefer to be ruffled by words (as that is all they are) than crushed by actions.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  9. Link to Post #185
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
    Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
    It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
    There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
    Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Not just rather naive--incredibly naive!!
    After 8 years of Obama, "A Legacy of Ashes", I don't think it's too much to hope that humanity is wiser now.
    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)

    To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.
    I feel many people have woken up, and others have gone further asleep. And perhaps more have woken up, when you look at first the blatant corruption around the Democrat primaries and the DNC, and second at the enormous MSM influence peddling to get Hillary in, and the demonization of Donald Trump. Many many people woke at that point, and started asking questions and starting reasoning for themselves. I applaud those people, and know that the trend will continue - you can only accept lies for so long.
    Last edited by DebJoy; 22nd January 2017 at 19:16.

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  13. Link to Post #187
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    What is most encouraging to me is the trend in questioning the whole 2 party system, which obviously doesn't work (though the 3 or 4 party system doesn't look like it would work any better.) Something new is needed.
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    Ecuador Avalon Member boolacalaca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    It cracks me up --- they say the people get the government they deserve
    then they complain about government not being the answer
    --- that seems to say the people are not the answer.
    as Shakespeare would say, I think they "doth protest too much, methinks."
    Perhaps they simply didn't get what they want, regardless of the answer.
    Either that or it will always be frustrating to seek the answer when the question is not fully understood in the true scope it entails.
    Arguing about who should win the Punch and Judy Show might miss the point.

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    True, the basic problem will probably not be resolved until many more people understand who is really controlling things on this planet and why, but there are usually many steps that have to be taken before an individual is ready to look that deeply and to ignore all the distractions, much less to be able to make sense of what they are seeing.
    It can only progress at the rate at which individuals are ready to take the next step, and that varies from person to person.
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  19. Link to Post #190
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Also, it depends on how much imagination we can bring to the process, if things are really ever going to change.
    I like what Jon Rappaport says about Imagination
    https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2...ind-control-4/
    Power beyond mind control
    by Jon Rappoport
    January 22, 2017

    Quote “All thought is not the same. There is random static. There is repetitious and circular rumination. There is thought devoted to solving a problem or analyzing a situation. Then there is thought that occurs when one is creating something that never existed before. To blithely say that ‘externally inserted’ mind control can replace all levels of thinking without a person being aware of what is going on is foolish.” (The Underground, Jon Rappoport)

    Consciousness wants to create new consciousness, and it can. Imagination is how it does it. If there were some ultimate state of consciousness, imagination would always be able to play another card and take it further.

    In any arena of life, and especially when it comes to the mind, perception, power, empathy, and so on, there is always a status quo. It’s merely the place where a person says, “Well, that’s enough. I’ll settle for what I have. I’ll stop here.”

    Sooner or later, this leads to boredom, frustration, problems, and conflict. It leads to a decline.

    Imagination, which knows no bounds, is the source for the most adventurous explorations. It can have great impact on the material world, of course, but one mustn’t therefore conclude it is composed of matter or energy. Imagination is non-material. To think otherwise winds you up in using some version of physics to depict imagination—and then you are imposing limits on it. This is an error. Imagination doesn’t obey any laws of physics.

    If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, we’ve flattered reality enough. It doesn’t need any more. Imagination creates new realities.

    You can create the same thing over and over, and eventually you’ll be about as alive as a table. Inject imagination into the mix, and everything suddenly changes. You can steer that boat anywhere you want to.

    The lowest common denominator of consensus signals an absence of imagination: everyone agrees; everyone is bored; everyone is obedient. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are massive floods of unique individual creation, and then that sought-after thing called abundance is as natural as the sun rising in the morning.

    Sitting around in a cosmic bus station waiting for reality is what reality is. Everything else is imagination.

    There are those who believe life is a museum. You walk through the rooms, find one painting, stroll into it and take up permanent residence. But the museum is endless. If you were a painter, you’d never decide to live inside one of your canvases forever. You’d keep on painting.

    The relentless and obsessive search for all those things on which we can agree is a confession of bankruptcy.

    When we re-learn to live through and by imagination, we enter and invent new space and time.

    With imagination, one can solve a problem. More importantly, one can skip ahead of the problem and render it null and void.

    Imagination isn’t a system. It might invent systems, but it is non-material. It’s a capacity. It feels no compulsion to imitate reality. It makes realities. Its scope is limited only by a person’s imagining of how far imagination can go.

    The human race is obsessed by the question: what exists? It appears to be a far easier question than: what do you want to create? This comparison explains why civilizations decline.

    Imagination is a path. Walking on that path long enough, you find answers to all the questions you’ve ever asked, as an incidental side effect of the journey. You also find power that most people only dream of.
    Each breath a gift...
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  21. Link to Post #191
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
    Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
    It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
    There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
    Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.
    Yet, when some folks here on the forum asked others to stop promoting someone who had been actively doing far worse (at least until that person got some serious counseling and took a break until his addictions were clearly under control), there was vigorous defense... recall? Consider also the difference in vulnerability levels of the ones who had experiences they later wished they hadn't.

    Also, I am unsure how much of the world folks here have experienced, but from my own experience, I have concluded that the media implanted attitudes of some and IMO way too many women in the US, to some extent Canada, to some extent the UK and to some extent the rest of the "westernized" (cabal media influenced) non-Latin / non-Asian world which is at least reasonably civilized... are far more "uptight" about being their gender (or gender preference).

    If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, it's my experience that they are living in an isolated world... and I am sorry to say this. If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, then write off 80% of the alpha-male population and note that most other males go along with the talk. Many of these same males are loved and appreciated by many females. And trust me, females can be just as raunchy. And trust me, at least in many of the parts of the world I have been too, I have met many females quite aggressive. Never forget there is still the animal in most of us. So many parts of the world celebrate this aspect of the human experience.

    I will never forget when I started to notice the media portraying men as nothing but useful animals that weren't very smart but were good for moving the sofa when needed and good for when "she" wanted to grab him by his tie and lead him up the stairs to the bedroom (late 80s and ever since). I thank God, this didn't happen world-wide.

    If anyone automatically concludes that "the 11 women" rolled out (obviously scripted) was real, then I consider the word 'naive' might apply... and I mean that with all due respect, I really do. Because what most of us here do know is that the cabal associated agencies and media organizations are fully capable of creating it all. This doesn't mean that I am saying some or all of it is untrue as I cannot know, but what I do know is that it is just as likely a fictitious creation. In fact, I make that most likely... and not because I want it that way as frankly, there's far, far more important matters at stake... but because it all seemed too convenient. Why suddenly just after the tape and just before the election do all these women suddenly "come forward." Still - Regardless if true or not, this all pales in comparison to the reports received by many credible third parties regarding the actions of the one I alluded to at the beginning of this post.

    So what I am suggesting is that it appears to me the post I quote above is a case of selective outrage and not consistent. So there must be reasons that in one case, there is a relentless attempt to defend and in the case of another, far less is made into far more.

    I recommend looking at 'the why' of this massive inconsistency.

    In all fairness, perhaps there might be something significantly different about the two cases (if we assume the worst regarding DTJ and we accept the reality regarding "the other") I am failing to see.
    Last edited by Sammy; 22nd January 2017 at 23:30.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
    Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
    It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
    There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
    Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.

    Many of these disturbed, upset females are idealogues. It's the same with race issues. There is never any CONTEXT with ideologues, ideology before anything and everything.

    1) My aunt tells me in the '60s when she was a girl and started getting breasts she couldn't go to the store for her mom without some adolescent boy or man saying something about her appearance or body parts. She says the sexism back then was intense. That is the era Trump grew up in and was a young man learning the culture and discovering his own sexuality within a sexist context, etc. He learned that behavior from males around him - that was the culture he was raised in. And what if it was a party, he was drunk and he did it once? Sexism is much less since that time, hell, today women can be a professional and dress showing half their cleavage and can still expect to be taken seriously.

    2) Am I the only female here that will attest to what females act like around desirable, rich men? They want them to come on to them. They are out to seduce men like Trump when he was young. They want goodies, gifts and glamor. I have no doubt that many females on a mission threw themselves at him.

    The above is not a defense, it's Context. I'm a female and have no apologies.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    We are being played.

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    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 23rd January 2017 at 00:00.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
    But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.
    I’m not suffering from delusions of Trump being the answer but I do think he’s the right man for the job at this time.

    There’s a lot about Trump I appreciate but this isn’t the appropriate thread to discuss that and I don’t care to debate it.

    When I don’t know whether to trust someone or not I just take them at face value and hold them to what they’re presenting them-self to be. Time always reveals the truth in this way because it’s impossible for them to hold their presented line if it isn’t true. This is where I’m at with Trump, I’m taking him at face value, nothing more, nothing less.

    In the meantime, if I’m a fool then so be it, I’d rather be wrong and give people a chance to deliver than be clever and shut down someone who’s potentially genuinely trying to do the right thing, or not. If Trump does fail then I’ll see that by his actions, not because I believe cheap attempts at discrediting him, like the tweet you posted (I mean no disrespect to you as I write that), which is absolutely a fake.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Beautifully honest, Helene West... the thanks button not enough.

    EDIT: My poor eyesight is no escuse for originally misspelling Helene... apologies, Helene, but I got it right, now. Fortunately I caught the mistake myself.
    Last edited by Sammy; 24th January 2017 at 20:00.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I posted that tweet, not because I believed it was genuinely Trump's, but because it was on a site where it would be highly visible, and because I didn't doubt that it would be regarded as genuine by many due to previous remarks that Trump has made that reflect a similar attitude.
    If he is going to unite the people of the US, he is going to have to deal with women who don't find his attitude towards women to be appropriate for a man in his position, and there appear to be a lot of them, and they apparently aren't willing to just wait and see.
    It also occurs to me that it may have been orchestrated so that HRC, a woman, would be defeated twice in her run for POTUS, in order to disempower women, and also that she was perhaps chosen precisely for that humiliation because she was so corruptible.
    The more we learn about just how corrupt she was, the worse it makes women look as a whole, or so I think the controllers believe (because they want the power to remain in the hands of men, and always have, imho. )
    Like Paul ( see his remarks here and in other posts: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1129091 )
    ....I am inclined to believe that this election, like so many others (perhaps ALL others) was skillfully manipulated from behind the scenes.
    That is not to say that I believe Trump will not make some good changes, but I think they will be primarily changes that are allowed by those who still hold the puppet strings, and he was hand picked because he fit the role.
    But I don't think anyone can call ALL the shots ALL the time, so there may also be a shift in the balance of power that is going on behind the scenes, and those changes may be more favorable over time to humanity.
    That will depend to some extent on how we govern ourselves and interface with our government while these changes occur.
    But all in all, however you look at all the different sides of the kaleidoscope, I have to agree with Ron--we are being played.
    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
    But the continuing divisiveness doesn't serve anyone.
    I’m not suffering from delusions of Trump being the answer but I do think he’s the right man for the job at this time.

    There’s a lot about Trump I appreciate but this isn’t the appropriate thread to discuss that and I don’t care to debate it.

    When I don’t know whether to trust someone or not I just take them at face value and hold them to what they’re presenting them-self to be. Time always reveals the truth in this way because it’s impossible for them to hold their presented line if it isn’t true. This is where I’m at with Trump, I’m taking him at face value, nothing more, nothing less.

    In the meantime, if I’m a fool then so be it, I’d rather be wrong and give people a chance to deliver than be clever and shut down someone who’s potentially genuinely trying to do the right thing, or not. If Trump does fail then I’ll see that by his actions, not because I believe cheap attempts at discrediting him, like the tweet you posted (I mean no disrespect to you as I write that), which is absolutely a fake.
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I never found anything Trump did or said to be offensive, probably because I've heard much worse from many other men. One of the things I'm sick of is politicians pretending they never use so called offensive words or "locker room" talk because they all do. I found it much more offensive that Bill Clinton was screwing around with so many younger women and perhaps even being guilty of rape. I find it more offensive that Hillary Clinton was probably involved in enabling her husband and certainly demeaning and attacking the women who accused him of rape and/or having sex with them. I also find it more offensive that they have probably ordered more murders than we can imagine. I find it more offensive that Obama has killed so many civilians with drones. Of course I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

    Trump is a genuine A-hole. I just happen to like that type of man and have been married to a major A-hole for 21 years. I find macho type men to be lots of fun if you don't get easily offended. Could Trump have been set up to win?? Anything is possible but I don't think so. Too many of the elites seemed genuinely shocked that he won. I'm personally very happy that he won because I think we avoided a major war and a huge economic downturn that would have happened if Hillary had won.

    I'm going to enjoy this very entertaining show for the next 4, hopefully 8, years!!
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    While I was not shocked by Donald Trump's comments about women and minorities/immigrants I was and am shocked by the lack of concern over these comments by many. I know that people are racist and sexist and homophobic and many other not so nice things. It's just that in a civil society I thought we at least tried to rise above our more base nature's and when we are caught frolicking in the muck we at least try to apologize and do better, especially when we are looking to be a leader of not just other macho white men but everyone. When people in power behave in a way that suggests only a certain segment in society is worthy of respect I do find it frightening. I don't think that's an over reaction. I don't want a return to the 1950's or before in terms of women or minority rights so language does matter to me. I am happy that Trump won in the sense that it meant we didn't get Hilary. I am nervous about what someone like him means for civil rights though. The LGBT pages have already been removed from the White House website.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Agreed, but that didn't really leave us with much of a choice. And the controllers at the very top might not have clued the many shocked elites into what their planned outcome was going to be.
    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    I found it much more offensive that Bill Clinton was screwing around with so many younger women and perhaps even being guilty of rape. I find it more offensive that Hillary Clinton was probably involved in enabling her husband and certainly demeaning and attacking the women who accused him of rape and/or having sex with them. I also find it more offensive that they have probably ordered more murders than we can imagine. I find it more offensive that Obama has killed so many civilians with drones. Of course I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

    Could Trump have been set up to win?? Anything is possible but I don't think so. Too many of the elites seemed genuinely shocked that he won.
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Most had no clue in what was going to be the outcome... including those who you would consider to be "the controllers at the very top" . Face it - they had no clue... and are still running around - like chickens - trying to figure out what had happened???

    You make for a good Conspiracy Theorist... but they were blind-sided with the rest of the sheople... plain & simple: Trump took most by surprise!
    Last edited by turiya; 23rd January 2017 at 17:31.

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