Trump is NOT the answer

[Michelle Marie]

Posted by Merlinus (here)
Donald Trump Freemason high priest

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=620s&v=GIbrnSYb3-I

Presidents are selected, not elected.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

I was looking into that because I wondering why he met with Henry Kissinger a few times, and Kissinger is a Knight of Malta.

Why did Trump meet with Kissinger? (Feb. 8, 2018)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QEpfVEaLAmA

Henry Kissinger and other Knights of Malta
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...ghts-of-malta/

Red Mass (Justice Supreme Courts)
Blue Mass (Police Force)
Overseen by Jesuit Superior Generals

The Illuminist Intelligence agencies have a facade of doing good, when in reality they serve the Satanic cabal. [CIA, M15-6, Mossad, NSA, GCHQ(UK)]

*************
"This is how the Rothschilds and Illuminati Control the World"
http://better-management.org/wp-cont...-the-world.pdf

***Lists Knights of Malta, 33 degree Freemasons, etc.***

************
Is Trump a Knight of Malta?
http://removetheveil.com/tag/trump/

"Nov 5 -- According to 4 Chan posts by "Q Anonymous"
(Read Jesuits 'Q Quele="Source")..." [as pointed out by LadyM]

Sealed U.S. District court documents in Washington D.C. for:
Company A & B: Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs regarding:
Paul Manafort's offshore accounts paid over $2Million in "lobbying fees"

**************
Diggin into it!
MM

[onawah]

I am going to make a request that posts to this thread remain on topic.
The discussion has drifted far away from what I believe Autumn's original intent was, though she hasn't been active here lately to speak for herself.
Her post #1 reads as follows:

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.
The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

There should be room on this forum for discussion along those lines, imho, and there are certainly lots of other threads to post on for those who don't agree.

[we-R-one]

Onawah, I would hope you'd still take the time to answer my legitimate questions on post #540 which do pertain to the discussion as you originally brought them up in your posts with the point of supporting the main argument- Trump Is Not the Answer'. This is a very complex discussion encompassing many topics. If you want to defend your stance and why you feel the way you do, you should be able to easily tell us why you support such groups and their nefarious agendas. The articles you post garner more questions to some of us and not solutions as they're presented. I question you to understand your POV not to pick on you as maybe there's something I'm not understanding.

I see this as a 'discussion' forum more than just a cut and paste environment. If what's being posted can't be supported with legitimate sources of support then you are only speaking with conjecture and not necessarily facts. It almost borders on slander against a person for the sake of smearing their name using false narratives. I think Avalon is better than that.

[turiya]

Posted by Michelle Marie (here)

Posted by Merlinus (here)
Donald Trump Freemason high priest

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=620s&v=GIbrnSYb3-I

Presidents are selected, not elected.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

I was looking into that because I wondering why he met with Henry Kissinger a few times, and Kissinger is a Knight of Malta.

Why did Trump meet with Kissinger? (Feb. 8, 2018)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QEpfVEaLAmA

Henry Kissinger and other Knights of Malta
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...ghts-of-malta/

Red Mass (Justice Supreme Courts)
Blue Mass (Police Force)
Overseen by Jesuit Superior Generals

The Illuminist Intelligence agencies have a facade of doing good, when in reality they serve the Satanic cabal. [CIA, M15-6, Mossad, NSA, GCHQ(UK)]

*************
"This is how the Rothschilds and Illuminati Control the World"
http://better-management.org/wp-cont...-the-world.pdf

***Lists Knights of Malta, 33 degree Freemasons, etc.***

************
Is Trump a Knight of Malta?
http://removetheveil.com/tag/trump/

"Nov 5 -- According to 4 Chan posts by "Q Anonymous"
(Read Jesuits 'Q Quele="Source")..." [as pointed out by LadyM]

Sealed U.S. District court documents in Washington D.C. for:
Company A & B: Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs regarding:
Paul Manafort's offshore accounts paid over $2Million in "lobbying fees"

**************
Diggin into it!
MM

Try, if you may, but I think that you will not find any such evidence regarding Trump being involved in any secret society, whatsoever.

As for Trump's meetings w/ Kissinger, Jerome Corsi has addressed this in one of the many videos in which he has been decoding the latest Q Anon drops. I will paraphrase it in brief...

Kissinger had been a graduate of Harvard where he earned his BA, MA & PhD. Corsi has said that he wrote his PhD thesis regarding the political balance of power with particular focus on the region of the Middle East. In other words, as bad a war criminal as he has turned out to be, he still has some expertise on the dealings & goings on of certain political strategy issues.

Having said that, I can only tribute Trump's meeting with Kissinger as a move to tap the man's brain as to what is needed to regain a balance of politcal power, especially in the regions of the Middle East - when in comes to Syria, Iraq, Iran, Israel. Jordan, etc. - as well as the Nuclear talks that will be forthcoming with regards to North & South Korea, China & Japan.

Prior to winning the 2016 presidential election, Trump previously has had to deal with New York City mafia, as they are the boys that have control when it comes to building & contruction materials in that area. So, Trump has some expertise in dealing with such nefarious individuals. It doesn't at all mean that he has taken such a route himself, but has used such individuals to move himself forward with whatever projects he has in mind.

Best regards.

[Michelle Marie]

Posted by turiya (here)

Posted by Michelle Marie (here)

Posted by Merlinus (here)
Donald Trump Freemason high priest

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=620s&v=GIbrnSYb3-I

Presidents are selected, not elected.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

I was looking into that because I wondering why he met with Henry Kissinger a few times, and Kissinger is a Knight of Malta.

Why did Trump meet with Kissinger? (Feb. 8, 2018)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QEpfVEaLAmA

Henry Kissinger and other Knights of Malta
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...ghts-of-malta/

Red Mass (Justice Supreme Courts)
Blue Mass (Police Force)
Overseen by Jesuit Superior Generals

The Illuminist Intelligence agencies have a facade of doing good, when in reality they serve the Satanic cabal. [CIA, M15-6, Mossad, NSA, GCHQ(UK)]

*************
"This is how the Rothschilds and Illuminati Control the World"
http://better-management.org/wp-cont...-the-world.pdf

***Lists Knights of Malta, 33 degree Freemasons, etc.***

************
Is Trump a Knight of Malta?
http://removetheveil.com/tag/trump/

"Nov 5 -- According to 4 Chan posts by "Q Anonymous"
(Read Jesuits 'Q Quele="Source")..." [as pointed out by LadyM]

Sealed U.S. District court documents in Washington D.C. for:
Company A & B: Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs regarding:
Paul Manafort's offshore accounts paid over $2Million in "lobbying fees"

**************
Diggin into it!
MM

Try, if you may, but I think that you will not find any such evidence regarding Trump being involved in any secret society, whatsoever.

As for Trump's meetings w/ Kissinger, Jerome Corsi has addressed this in one of the many videos in which he has been decoding the latest Q Anon drops. I will paraphrase it in brief...

Kissinger had been a graduate of Harvard where he earned his BA, MA & PhD. Corsi has said that he wrote his PhD thesis regarding the political balance of power with particular focus on the region of the Middle East. In other words, as bad a war criminal as he has turned out to be, he still has some expertise on the dealings & goings on of certain political strategy issues.

Having said that, I can only tribute Trump's meeting with Kissinger as a move to tap the man's brain as to what is needed to regain a balance of politcal power, especially in the regions of the Middle East - when in comes to Syria, Iraq, Iran, Israel. Jordan, etc. - as well as the Nuclear talks that will be forthcoming with regards to North & South Korea, China & Japan.

Prior to winning the 2016 presidential election, Trump previously has had to deal with New York City mafia, as they are the boys that have control when it comes to building & contruction materials in that area. So, Trump has some expertise in dealing with such nefarious individuals. It doesn't at all mean that he has taken such a route himself, but has used such individuals to move himself forward with whatever projects he has in mind.

Best regards.

Thank you for saying that, because I feel very optimistic regarding what is going on regarding getting things back in order. I just don't want to be deceived and so I will always look into things. Associations are important. But you have to know who and what you're dealing with (such as Trump dealing with mafia types) in order to assess the situation and to respond or strategize accordingly.

Trump has displayed a lot of strength and has made tremendous progress, as I mentioned earlier on this thread.

His brilliant moves and ingenious communication strategies have really given rise to a freedom lover's patriotic spirit.

If we want to continue agreeing in this manner, we could move our conversation to another thread as this one was designed to support the idea "Trump is not the answer."

I did need the clarification you provided, though, so again, I thank you.

MM

[onawah]

Defend pollution protections for public and tribal lands
Sierra Club
3/10/18
https://sierra.secure.force.com/acti...1000001iOuIAAU

In a clear giveaway to the oil and gas industry, the Trump administration and Secretary Zinke recently released a plan to gut safeguards that limit methane and other air pollution from oil and gas drilling on public and tribal lands.

Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, and, alongside other toxic gases emitted from oil and gas drilling, is linked to increased asthma rates, birth defects, and cancer. The fossil fuel industry is allowed to vent, leak, and simply burn off huge amounts of this gas (called flaring) when they frack for oil and gas on America's public and tribal lands.

The Obama administration put commonsense safeguards in place that set limits to the amount of pollution, providing critical health protections for surrounding Indigenous communities and those who live near public lands. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is charged with implementing these safeguards and managing these resources, but this rollback attempt would effectively eliminate progress to ensure public resources are managed in the public interest and public health is protected.

Take action: Defend pollution protections for public and tribal lands. Submit a public comment to the Bureau of Land Management now.

This is yet another handout from Trump and Zinke to corporate polluters. The Trump administration has been working to lend their oil and gas industry friends a hand and get rid of these rules from almost day one. They tried to get rid of these protections in Congress and when that didn't work they tried to delay them -- but we defeated this delay in court. Now, they've released a new plan that would effectively eliminate this pollution safeguard, putting people's health and safety at risk to help the oil and gas industry profit.

The Bureau of Land Management is collecting public comments on their plan to destroy methane pollution protections. People power has defeated this scheme twice before and we can do it again. Submit your public comment now!

Thank you for speaking out,

Matthew Gravatt
Associate Legislative Director
Sierra Club

Whatever you may think about the Sierra Club and other non-profits who seem to have conflicting agendas these days, I think it's clear that there are policies being implemented by the Trump Admin that are encroaching upon laws that have been implemented to provide protection to the environment which in general tend to "rob Peter to pay Paul", and to public health and safety (for tribal people in particular and other very vulnerable members of society) .
I don't believe that all members and actions of such non-profits have been completely subverted, or that it's a total waste of time to post messages here that they are sending out which inform us as to those harmful policies which Trump lovers tend to ignore.
Ignoring can be akin to ignorance, and that can be dangerous, especially if it's willful.
Some of Trumps policies are terrific, some aren't.
If this forum continues to support free expression, then this thread will be allowed to continue to be devoted to those policies that aren't terrific, and that should be respected by all forum members.
There is certainly no lack of threads that are devoted to Trump admirers, so it seems very odd to me that there should be such an invasion now on this thread.
I hope that has now come to an end.

[Merlinus]

As a general rule, assume anyone who has significant wealth/fame/power, to be a pawn/ally of the shadow government.

[onawah]

I would qualify that with this modification: "a pawn/ally of some faction of shadow government"...with mention that there is competition among those factions.

Posted by Merlinus (here)
As a general rule, assume anyone who has significant wealth/fame/power, to be a pawn/ally of the shadow government.

[we-R-one]

Posted by onawah (here)
Whatever you may think about the Sierra Club and other non-profits who seem to have conflicting agendas these days, I think it's clear that there are policies being implemented by the Trump Admin that are encroaching upon laws that have been implemented to provide protection to the environment which in general tend to "rob Peter to pay Paul", and to public health and safety (for tribal people in particular and other very vulnerable members of society) .

No, they’re not necessarily ‘laws implemented to provide protection to the environment’, that’s the ruse. Do you know what a ‘ruse’ is? A ‘ruse’ is an intention to deceive. This is a point already addressed, which you either don’t understand or refuse to acknowledge. Sierra Club is no longer about protecting the environment, and neither is the Center of Biological Diversity, two organizations you repeatedly insist on posting about and accusing the Trump Administration of negating their work. Their purpose is to keep people off the land permanently through the false pretenses of Biodiversity. Ever seen the Wildlands Project Map from the UNITED NATIONS? See below as this is the end game of their shenanigans. The red is where you won’t be allowed, e.v.e.r. which is pretty much the entire country. To reach this goal they have to legalize and enforce insurmountable layers of regulations under the guise of ‘protecting the environment and the people’. The Trump administration is undoing these policies which were originally meant to build the infrastructure for accomplishing the goals of Agenda 21.




Organizatons such as Sierra Club and Central For Biological Diversity hide under the guise their mission is about ‘protecting the environment.’ The mission is to herd people into very small living spaces so they can be controlled!

“It’s about moving population into city centers, concentrated city centers and clearing them out of the rural areas.” –Rosa Koire, expert in land use and land valuation with a specialty in eminent domain.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rmAP1KdNvnw

‘Hide under the guise’…I hope you think hard about that statement as it’s the basis behind all their chess game moves that you think are for the benefit of the environment and protection of people. Trump is removing over-regulated policies that were put in place by the Obummer administration and others because those policies weren’t for the point of ‘safe guarding’ as you think, they were put in place because once again, they pave the pathway for the Agenda 21 blueprint through over-regulation!

When you promote organizations that push Biodiversity, you say to the reader you support Agenda 21 policies and procedures. You also suggest you’re in favor of Radical Environmental Terrorism, as these groups by their actions stop at nothing to push their agenda. Ah yes...killing in the name of green....what more could an advance society ask for? Yes I'm being rhetorical....These people are thugs! Common sense is what people are looking for, not terrorist who will stop at nothing to push the endgame of the unimaginable.

There’s no if, and’s or but’s about what’s going on here…….this is happening and these organizations have shown their intentions. There are plenty of articles and documentation providing evidence for their motives as I’ve posted. If you look at this link here you will see Sierra Club listed as a proponent utilized by THE UNITED NATIONS.

The 14 Most Influential Sustainability NGOs
https://www.sustainabilitydegrees.co...nability-ngos/
How lovely, careers and degree opportunities which indoctrinate members of the community to play the Simon Says game. Oh lookey Sierra Club is listed as #11! Oooh it's the master number!!!

"Sierra Club: Founded in 1892 by conservationist John Muir, the Sierra Club is one of the oldest and largest environmental organizations in the U.S. It has protected millions of acres of wilderness and has helped to pass key environmental legislation, including the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species Act. It’s also leading efforts to move away from the use of fossil fuels."

Awww too bad, they'll have to re-edit the above as the 'key' environmental legislation the Clean Water Act is no longer being implemented executive order 13783...boo hoo .....NOT!

Is the Endangered Species Act threatened for the chopping block too?

"At least one Republican has vowed to wage an effort to repeal the Endangered Species Act. “It has never been used for the rehabilitation of species,” House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Rob Bishop (R-Utah) said, according to an Associated Press report.Feb 15, 2017"
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f497204bf4c0

Said from the House of Natural Resources Committee! Wow oh wow are you reading this???Exactly why my point is being proven Onawah. These people aren't about protecting wildlife or the environment! Do read the article, then google as there are more offering additional information.

Posted by onawah (here)
I don't believe that all members and actions of such non-profits have been completely subverted, or that it's a total waste of time to post messages here that they are sending out which inform us as to those harmful policies which Trump lovers tend to ignore.

No one’s necessarily ignoring it, that’s you’re misinformed interpretation. The quote above proves it! As you research, he's not the only one saying it! I would say from what I can perceive of your writings, unfortunately you are misconstruing the actions of the administration as being ‘harmful’ because you don’t seem to have a clear understanding that the purpose of some of these regulations put into place by prior administrations were to support the infrastructure of Agenda 21, not protect the environment as you keep on insisting; you’re supporting their false narrative and it's why many don't support your stance. So I wouldn't say they're(Sierra Club et al) are informing us of 'harmful policies'. However you have to look at each situation separately to make that determination rather than cut and paste articles automatically assuming the actions of the Trump Administration are harmful which is exactly what you're doing.

Posted by onawah (here)
Ignoring can be akin to ignorance, and that can be dangerous, especially if it's willful.

Lol, uh yes, I think you might want to follow your own advice as clearly you are ‘ignoring’ hard facts supplied in my posts that prove these organizations are being built off the backs of the people to subjugate their individual rights so the blueprint of Agenda 21 can be implemented as I keep repeating and their motives have nothing to do with environmental or human protection. The Trump Administration is in the process of tearing it down. I suspect once the infrastructure is removed, then and only then, we can go back in and rebuild with integrity and honesty, regulations that provide proper protection. A sovereign nation our size needs to be energy independent, Trump recognizes this, and thank god because I don’t want to be pay $10 bucks or more for a gallon of gas, do you? Not to mention how many other things can be held over our heads forcing us to be subjected to slavery by another country because we can’t provide our own resources. America won't/can't be great again without proper infrastructure.

Posted by onawah (here)
If this forum continues to support free expression, then this thread will be allowed to continue to be devoted to those policies that aren't terrific, and that should be respected by all forum members.
There is certainly no lack of threads that are devoted to Trump admirers, so it seems very odd to me that there should be such an invasion now on this thread.
I hope that has now come to an end.

Nobody is stopping you from posting. What’s being pointed out is you’re using articles that are misconstruing facts to support a nefarious agenda. You are posting ‘fake’ news. You think some of the Trump Administration policies aren’t ‘terrific’ because you’re misinterpreting the data as you don’t have an understanding of how the infrastructure of Agenda 21 is being laid out in your own country. So you are falsely slandering President Trump and his administration. You would be better served to understand in more detail what you’re supporting rather than cutting and pasting fake news.

It’s not easy reading and absorbing and it’s not supposed to be! The layers upon layers of regulations one has to weed through in the name of green are to make it so difficult the average individual has no choice but to succumb to the narrative. You’re proving it works! You're proving that psychological warfare works! By sharing what I’ve learned I’m trying to stop people from making fools out of themselves because I can clearly see, some do not have the knowledge base to comprehend what’s happening right under their noses to recognize how they’re being used to build a system meant to enslave the entire human race! I'm doing everything I can to educate and warn people.

But hey, keep posting under the ‘guise’ of free expression, however don’t forget your own words of wisdom,

Posted by onawah (here)
Ignoring can be akin to ignorance, and that can be dangerous, especially if it's willful.

[onawah]

I will quote myself:

If this forum continues to support free expression, then this thread will be allowed to continue to be devoted to those policies that aren't terrific, and that should be respected by all forum members.
There is certainly no lack of threads that are devoted to Trump admirers, so it seems very odd to me that there should be such an invasion now on this thread.
I hope that has now come to an end.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by onawah (here)
I am going to make a request that posts to this thread remain on topic.
The discussion has drifted far away from what I believe Autumn's original intent was, though she hasn't been active here lately to speak for herself.
Her post #1 reads as follows:

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.
The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

There should be room on this forum for discussion along those lines, imho, and there are certainly lots of other threads to post on for those who don't agree.

[Mod response, from Bill]

Thanks for the request, and we truly do understand it. And please forgive the long delay in response... the mods had really quite a long and interesting discussion about it, and we're not all in the the same timezone here (or even on the same side of the spinning, round, night-and-day earth ).

But this tiny anecdote may illustrate the problem. One of the mods expressed a particular viewpoint about one aspect of this. I disagreed. I then joked... "But wait a minute: maybe I should delete my disagreement."

Of course, that's silly... I was making a point. We were trying to debate something intelligently and responsibly. And in doing so, we all stand to learn.

That's one of the reasons humans learned to talk, hundreds of thousands of years ago. And we're still talking. I doubt (and hope!) humans will ever stop.

If one wants to present a viewpoint with no disagreement or counterpoints welcomed, then one should start a blog, launch a radio show, or make videos. Or stand on the streets with a bullhorn.

If I post that I think ETs exist, and you post that you think they don't, your reply is NOT off-topic. It's the starting point for me to explain to you why I think my view is valid. (And, of course, you can reply to that, unless one of us wants to 'Ignore' the other.)

All that is good, if the subject really is open to different intelligent viewpoints, articulately and appropriately expressed. Things get out of hand when the lines of courtesy and respect are breached, or when the topic drifts way off to other things. The exact lines for those are blurred, but the lines are there.

I've NOT read all the posts on the thread... at all. I was personally pleased when the thread was started, though, because it's very healthy to have a thread with that title. But we're not going to delete or remove any posts that disagree with the premise. The opportunity here is to discuss and debate the points. Not as emotional belief systems, but with facts and evidence, if at all possible.

I WOULD ask those who DO disagree not to be too strident... please. Just be kind. But it HAS to be okay to all express ourselves on an issue that's really so important. As I've so often stated, it's the WAY we do this that matters.

And if we do that well, we can all learn stuff. Really.

[we-R-one]

The most difficult aspect of the topics being discussed on this thread is the majority don't have the proper knowledge base, hence misunderstandings and misconceptions. Unless one is willing to spend some time learning how Agenda 21 is being implemented and by whom, they are not on equal ground of understanding. These are not easy topics and require attention to detail. When I write my posts, I'm not just cutting and pasting, I'm reading everything I link to or watching the video to ensure accuracy and that I truly understand what it is I'm posting. It's very time consuming. This is what it takes to get to the bottom of things for deeper learning. I'm not trying to be some meanie...I've spent a lot of time researching Agenda 21 and I present with facts/executive orders/sources as much as possible, hence intelligence and responsibility, so I'm not adding conjecture to confuse the situation, only facts to back my points.

As I like to say, 'my opinion is based on what the research shows.' And fwiw, my name was Artemis back in the times and if you know anything about her, she was guardian of the animals and forest. Nothing has changed since then as my sense of responsibility and love for both are still within. Please understand I'm more for being 'green' than you can imagine, but not under false pretenses. Revision is strongly needed in our laws to bring back balance rather than dictatorial living conditions which is exactly where this was headed had the Trump Administration not interceded, this is what I think people have yet to understand.

[Bob]

I WOULD ask those who DO disagree not to be too strident... please. Just be kind.

But it HAS to be okay to all express ourselves on an issue that's really so important. As I've so often stated, it's the WAY we do this that matters.

And if we do that well, we can all learn stuff. Really.

That goes across the board.. there are some recent threads about being able to put oneself in the viewpoint of the reader and of course of whom one is "challenging" in a post/response.

If one is not able to put oneself in the exterior viewpoint, one is missing a LOT of understanding, by being limited to pure EGO presentation.

That's my observation and agreement with Bill.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Posted by we-R-one (here)
Onawah, I would hope you'd still take the time to answer my legitimate questions on post #540 which do pertain to the discussion as you originally brought them up in your posts with the point of supporting the main argument- Trump Is Not the Answer'. This is a very complex discussion encompassing many topics. If you want to defend your stance and why you feel the way you do, you should be able to easily tell us why you support such groups and their nefarious agendas. The articles you post garner more questions to some of us and not solutions as they're presented. I question you to understand your POV not to pick on you as maybe there's something I'm not understanding.

I see this as a 'discussion' forum more than just a cut and paste environment. If what's being posted can't be supported with legitimate sources of support then you are only speaking with conjecture and not necessarily facts. It almost borders on slander against a person for the sake of smearing their name using false narratives. I think Avalon is better than that.

First, I think that this forum is to be treated as a place for discussion, too, but not as though it's a court of law, or some undergraduate Moot Court. I think that if someone wishes to voice his or her opinion, then it should be listened to and respected, regardless of how many links one is able to include to justify it. Having an opinion is a legitimate reason for posting to a thread.

Having read through the last several pages here, I think I can guess why Onawah is lagging in his/her responses to you, we-R-one, that being that anything s/he posts to support his/her position will be met with an overwhelming avalanche of cut 'n' pastes by you that do nothing to further the discussions that this thread was instituted for. Such aggressive bullying with its over the top floods of information would take hours and hours to respond to, and the likely outcome of a genuine effort to support one's claims is only, as far as I can tell, going to result in an even more massive salvo of disinformation (Info Wars as source? Really?) meant to stifle any further comment. Why not dial back your diatribes' volumes a bit, select a couple of pertinent and truthful points for each, and go with those, instead of overwhelming your targets with exhausting mountains of "fact"? I've noticed that the Trump supporters around here are particularly verbose with 'fire hoses' of information, much of it from their favourite alt-right bloggospheres' fake news agents. So, please don't take the 'high road' wrt expecting answers for each of your points, as though each and every one of your 'claims' is a hill to die on, or that you or the forum is being disrespected somehow. Also, please don't take someone's lack of response as a victory for Trump supporters - sometimes responding to you lot is just not worth the effort.

Staying on topic would be a good start.

Cheers,

Brian

[onawah]

Wow, nicely put Brian. I couldn't agree more.
I really don't have time to argue, which is what this thread was devolving to--discussion was certainly not possible.
So I have expanded my Ignore list and decided simply not to post on this thread for now, but if it ends here, it will be on a realistic note at least and perhaps if Autumn comes back she will want to pick it up again later.
There are certainly things continuing to happen under Trump's direct orders that bode no good, but it seems to me that many forum members have become so blindly pro-Trump that, as you probably agree, it is going to be a whole lot less energy and time-consuming to just wait until it becomes obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporters that they have had blinders on to the wider perspective of what is going on and how undeniably pro-NWO many of his policies actually are.
I can't help but wonder what the reward is for all the time his supporters devote to presenting their ironclad opinions on the forum.

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)
Onawah, I would hope you'd still take the time to answer my legitimate questions on post #540 which do pertain to the discussion as you originally brought them up in your posts with the point of supporting the main argument- Trump Is Not the Answer'. This is a very complex discussion encompassing many topics. If you want to defend your stance and why you feel the way you do, you should be able to easily tell us why you support such groups and their nefarious agendas. The articles you post garner more questions to some of us and not solutions as they're presented. I question you to understand your POV not to pick on you as maybe there's something I'm not understanding.

I see this as a 'discussion' forum more than just a cut and paste environment. If what's being posted can't be supported with legitimate sources of support then you are only speaking with conjecture and not necessarily facts. It almost borders on slander against a person for the sake of smearing their name using false narratives. I think Avalon is better than that.

First, I think that this forum is to be treated as a place for discussion, too, but not as though it's a court of law, or some undergraduate Moot Court. I think that if someone wishes to voice his or her opinion, then it should be listened to and respected, regardless of many links one is able to include to justify it. Having an opinion is a legitimate reason for posting to a thread.

Having read through the last several pages here, I think I can guess why Onawah is lagging in his/her responses to you, we-R-one, that being that anything s/he posts to support his/her position will be met with an overwhelming avalanche of cut 'n' pastes by you that do nothing to further the discussions that this thread was instituted for. Such aggressive and over the top floods of information take hours and hours to respond to, and the likely outcome of a genuine effort to support one's claims is only, as far as I can tell, going to result in an even more massive salvo of disinformation (Info Wars as source? Really?) meant to stifle any further comment. Why not dial back your diatribes' volumes a bit, select a couple of pertinent and truthful points for each, and go with those, instead of overwhelming your targets with exhausting mountains of "fact"? I've noticed that the Trump supporters around here are particularly verbose with 'fire hoses of information', much of it from their favourite alt-right bloggospheres' fake news agents. So, please don't take the 'high road' wrt expecting answers for each of your points, as though each and every one of your 'claims' is a hill to die on, or that yyou or the forum is being disrespected somehow. Also, please don't take someone's lack of response as a victory for Trump supporters - sometimes responding to you lot is just not worth the effort.

Staying on topic would be a good start.

Cheers,

Brian

[we-R-one]

Posted by onawah (here)
Wow, nicely put Brian. I couldn't agree more.
I really don't have time to argue, which is what this thread was devolving to--discussion was certainly not possible.

It’s not about arguing, if you’re going to make statements you claim to be true, you need to be able to back them when someone asks, it’s that simple, otherwise your posts aren’t taken seriously. You’ve made statements about renewable energy as a solution and never answered my concerns pertaining to countries who’ve taken this disastrous route which caused both financial and environmental devastation.

Posted by onawah (here)
So I have expanded my Ignore list and decided simply not to post on this thread for now, but if it ends here, it will be on a realistic note at least and perhaps if Autumn comes back she will want to pick it up again later.

So instead of providing information to back your statements you resort to hitting the ignore button? Maybe a discussion forum isn’t the right place for you? Please re-read Bill's post:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
If one wants to present a viewpoint with no disagreement or counterpoints welcomed, then one should start a blog, launch a radio show, or make videos. Or stand on the streets with a bullhorn.

If I post that I think ETs exist, and you post that you think they don't, your reply is NOT off-topic. It's the starting point for me to explain to you why I think my view is valid. (And, of course, you can reply to that, unless one of us wants to 'Ignore' the other.)

All that is good, if the subject really is open to different intelligent viewpoints, articulately and appropriately expressed. Things get out of hand when the lines of courtesy and respect are breached, or when the topic drifts way off to other things. The exact lines for those are blurred, but the lines are there.

I've NOT read all the posts on the thread... at all. I was personally pleased when the thread was started, though, because it's very healthy to have a thread with that title. But we're not going to delete or remove any posts that disagree with the premise. The opportunity here is to discuss and debate the points. Not as emotional belief systems, but with facts and evidence, if at all possible.

Posted by onawah (here)
There are certainly things continuing to happen under Trump's direct orders that bode no good, but it seems to me that many forum members have become so blindly pro-Trump that, as you probably agree, it is going to be a whole lot less energy and time-consuming to just wait until it becomes obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporters that they have had blinders on to the wider perspective of what is going on and how undeniably pro-NWO many of his policies actually are.
I can't help but wonder what the reward is for all the time his supporters devote to presenting their ironclad opinions on the forum.

Many members agree and have openly stated Trump is not perfect, myself included so your comment of ‘forum members having blinders on’ makes no sense. Someone who is dismantling the infrastructure of Agenda 21 via policies, revisions and executive orders and maintaining the sovereignty of their country by pulling out of nefarious treaties can hardly be considered ‘pro-NWO’. Please give specific examples as to which of his ‘many policies’ are ‘undeniably pro-NOW’ and explain if he is ‘pro-NWO, why then is he dismantling the perfect NWO infrastructure of Agenda 21, as being demonstrated via executive orders on the thread ‘Examples of Trump Administration Dismantling Agenda 21 Deep State’s Agenda 21’. And this is what I mean about backing your statements. If you want people to believe your opinion is based on truth, they want to see support for your viewpoint, otherwise what your saying can be construed only as conjecture.

Definition: Conjecture
1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
Source: Google search engine

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)
Onawah, I would hope you'd still take the time to answer my legitimate questions on post #540 which do pertain to the discussion as you originally brought them up in your posts with the point of supporting the main argument- Trump Is Not the Answer'. This is a very complex discussion encompassing many topics. If you want to defend your stance and why you feel the way you do, you should be able to easily tell us why you support such groups and their nefarious agendas. The articles you post garner more questions to some of us and not solutions as they're presented. I question you to understand your POV not to pick on you as maybe there's something I'm not understanding.

I see this as a 'discussion' forum more than just a cut and paste environment. If what's being posted can't be supported with legitimate sources of support then you are only speaking with conjecture and not necessarily facts. It almost borders on slander against a person for the sake of smearing their name using false narratives. I think Avalon is better than that.

First, I think that this forum is to be treated as a place for discussion, too, but not as though it's a court of law, or some undergraduate Moot Court. I think that if someone wishes to voice his or her opinion, then it should be listened to and respected, regardless of many links one is able to include to justify it. Having an opinion is a legitimate reason for posting to a thread.

No one is saying one can’t post their comments or ‘be heard’, I was very clear in my remarks above. And yes ‘discussion’ is correct which is why I was asking Onawah to explain her statements for the sake of ‘discussion’. As Bill pointed out in his post, it’s not a blog. In a ‘discussion’ forum people are going to ask questions, so if you have an opinion, and you post it, be prepared to respond to questions because it’s a ‘discussion’ forum. It’s pretty simple. Anyone can have an opinion, that’s what blogs are for.

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
Having read through the last several pages here, I think I can guess why Onawah is lagging in his/her responses to you, we-R-one, that being that anything s/he posts to support his/her position will be met with an overwhelming avalanche of cut 'n' pastes by you that do nothing to further the discussions that this thread was instituted for. Such aggressive and over the top floods of information take hours and hours to respond to, and the likely outcome of a genuine effort to support one's claims is only, as far as I can tell, going to result in an even more massive salvo of disinformation (Info Wars as source? Really?) meant to stifle any further comment.

I’ve listed a variety of sources in my posts not just Info Wars who I believe I only used twice combined with other sources. As I’ve already mentioned this is a very complicated topic and can’t be answered with short snipits, hence my detailed posts. I cannot help if the viewer is unable to connect dots or absorb the information or doesn’t want to read. Trust me, I ‘get’ it’s complicated and it was set up that way on purpose so the average person would have difficulty following! What I post is to back my statements and share why I believe and what I believe. In one of my posts on this thread I demonstrated a link between the Agenda 21 blueprint/UNITED NATIONS and the SIERRA CLUB, an organization that this thread likes to tout over and over again which is a known Environmental Terrorist organization. The SIERRA CLUB is listed right on THE UNITED NATIONS website page so there’s no guessing whether it’s true or not!

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
Why not dial back your diatribes' volumes a bit, select a couple of pertinent and truthful points for each, and go with those, instead of overwhelming your targets with exhausting mountains of "fact"?

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could wrap up the topic in one small package with instructions and a bow…sigh…Please see my immediate remarks above.

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
I've noticed that the Trump supporters around here are particularly verbose with 'fire hoses of information', much of it from their favourite alt-right bloggospheres' fake news agents. So, please don't take the 'high road' wrt expecting answers for each of your points, as though each and every one of your 'claims' is a hill to die on, or that yyou or the forum is being disrespected somehow. Also, please don't take someone's lack of response as a victory for Trump supporters - sometimes responding to you lot is just not worth the effort.

Staying on topic would be a good start.

Hey Brian, I am on topic! Onawah posted comments and I asked for clarification pertaining to the comments she made, it’s really not that hard as you’re making it; if the person understands the topic their touting they should be able to respond with information not hit the ignore button or claim it’s ‘not worth the effort’ or I’m being some ‘bully’ because I'm providing information to back my opinion! I don’t perceive the lack of response as some ‘victory for Trump supporters’ as it’s not a contest. Most forum members are looking for truth which is why many of us have turned into avid researchers and why you may feel you’re being blasted with information. People are finally doing the homework and sharing what they've learned. My posts are an example of what I’ve discovered by doing the homework; they’re a one stop shop,.... all one has to do is read. Please read Bill's post above.

I see false information being posted to promote the blueprint of Agenda 21 and since I’ve studied the topic extensively I'm able to easily identify ill-intended organizations involved in its implementation who are repeatedly being listed as a source of information on this thread. Oh they’re a source alright, but not with with well-meaning intentions for 'we the people'. Sadly there are good people with good intentions who are being snookered into supporting these groups all under the guise of green, which is why I often say, ‘this is how they’re building the infrastructure of Agenda 21 off of the backs of 'we the people.’

So I’ve politely addressed your response. I’m not posting emoji’s with wagging fingers as done to me. If we want to stay on topic here, it would be nice if the people who post their opinions offer legitimate support when asked in the true spirit of a ‘discussion forum’ and getting to the heart of truth. If one isn’t able to do so, then likely it says to the viewer, there may not be much ‘truth’ in what’s being promoted, hence minimal support/involvement in this thread.

[Ewan]

I pretty much love everyone on this forum, (not true, a manipulative statement to get you all on my side but behaving like a politician doesn't feel good TBH), and it saddens me, (true, that one really is true), to see people apparently unable to rise above pathetic, (dangerous words, even if accurate, may have just lost some people there), political arguments.

If history has taught us anything, ( I mean to the best of our understanding; and surely an Avalon member has a pretty good understanding of HIS-Story?), it is that all politics is a circus of lies and obfuscation. A means of manipulating stories to garner support and belief amongst the 'bewildered herd', the 'useless eaters', of the masses. Divide people into different mindsets, once set apart they can argue amongst themselves and the devious get on with business as usual.

At times like this I feel one should fly like the eagle, condor, hawk, (bad choice, don't mention hawks), some bird that can fly very high, (lark, that's a good one), and view things from a more elevated perspective. The worst advise I could give is for you to raise your heads from the grazing and peer over the hedge to the opposite field, you won't see anything that way. Jump the fence, but don't land on the other side - just keep rising way above it all. There you will get a new perspective. Hell, you might even notice, immediately, that the paddock on the other side of the fence actually looks identical to the one you just jumped out of.

Why am I qualified to proffer such advice, well simply that I am, in so far as I have discovered, completely apolitical. I believe Trump is a highly intelligent man, I also fear he is an immature buffoon. I believed Obama was a thouroughly deceptive human being but at the same time recognised a great charisma within him. He was undoubtedly intelligent too. Intelligence, or charisma, is no marker for honesty, or morality.

Please do not let Rome (dīvide et imperā) hold sway in the 21st century.

[onawah]

I'm impressed by the amount of time you devote to the forum WeROne, and I've confessed I don't have the time or energy to compete, but whether my posts are taken seriously or not depends on the individual, and I have been an active member here for a long time, so how seriously my posts are taken may vary a lot more than you may think. People who are aligned with my views may not post much as they may not want to deal with the hotly and predominantly pro-Trump views being widely expressed on the forum currently.
I don't make claims that everything I post is true.
(That would be foolish--none of us are omnipotent and we live in a very complicated reality, though people who have a strong need to be right may sometimes like to take that pose. )
There are no forum requirements for that kind of proof, as far as I am aware, though we are cautioned to be wary of Silly Season type posts and with good reason.
But I do post information from sources that I consider to be worthy of consideration, at least and as far as I know, that is allowed.

[QUOTE=we-R-one;1216931]

Posted by onawah (here)
Wow, nicely put Brian. I couldn't agree more.
I really don't have time to argue, which is what this thread was devolving to--discussion was certainly not possible.

It’s not about arguing, if you’re going to make statements you claim to be true, you need to be able to back them when someone asks, it’s that simple, otherwise your posts aren’t taken seriously. You’ve made statements about renewable energy as a solution and never answered my concerns pertaining to countries who’ve taken this disastrous route which caused both financial and environmental devastation.

I also didn't post anything about renewable energies where they have proven successful. It's not really my job to do that. You might want to consult Wade Frazier's threads for that kind of info, as he is quite expert, and he would probably be willing to help with that. But I doubt that he will agree there aren't renewable energies which could solve our energy needs, if they were being made available.

Posted by onawah (here)
So I have expanded my Ignore list and decided simply not to post on this thread for now, but if it ends here, it will be on a realistic note at least and perhaps if Autumn comes back she will want to pick it up again later.

So instead of providing information to back your statements you resort to hitting the ignore button? Maybe a discussion forum isn’t the right place for you? Please re-read Bill's post:

I have put a few members on my Ignore list who strike me as being deluded, strident, having an agenda, opinionated, more concerned with being right than in being objective and learning, etc. and with people whose energies I just don't resonate with.
I considered putting you there first when I saw your claims about who you think you were in your past lives and the "evidence" that you think backs your claims, but I waited until recently. I will probably put you back on that list again because we just don't resonate, and I think that is preferable than getting into anymore wrangles with you which are not really constructive for anyone.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
If one wants to present a viewpoint with no disagreement or counterpoints welcomed, then one should start a blog, launch a radio show, or make videos. Or stand on the streets with a bullhorn.

Indeed, but there is also no rule against posting pertinent information from sources that have not been entirely debunked for consideration.

If I post that I think ETs exist, and you post that you think they don't, your reply is NOT off-topic. It's the starting point for me to explain to you why I think my view is valid. (And, of course, you can reply to that, unless one of us wants to 'Ignore' the other.)

And when it seems clear that a member or group of members are attempting to derail a thread, if only by being rude, hostile (as in "disdainful") or strident, then that can be considered by the Mods as worthy of correction, and has been done so in the past.

All that is good, if the subject really is open to different intelligent viewpoints, articulately and appropriately expressed. Things get out of hand when the lines of courtesy and respect are breached, or when the topic drifts way off to other things. The exact lines for those are blurred, but the lines are there. Exactly!

I've NOT read all the posts on the thread... at all. I was personally pleased when the thread was started, though, because it's very healthy to have a thread with that title. But we're not going to delete or remove any posts that disagree with the premise. The opportunity here is to discuss and debate the points. Not as emotional belief systems, but with facts and evidence, if at all possible.

I don't think that providing information from legitimate non-profits necessarily needs to be proven, point by point, no matter who donates to them. That has nothing to do with an emotional belief system. I don't have the time to prove their info is true, but I don't think there is any question that it's not worthy of consideration, and you haven't proven that it's not. If you want to try, you are certainly welcome to, and good luck with that, but I think it's a topic for a new thread.

Posted by onawah (here)
There are certainly things continuing to happen under Trump's direct orders that bode no good, but it seems to me that many forum members have become so blindly pro-Trump that, as you probably agree, it is going to be a whole lot less energy and time-consuming to just wait until it becomes obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporters that they have had blinders on to the wider perspective of what is going on and how undeniably pro-NWO many of his policies actually are.
I can't help but wonder what the reward is for all the time his supporters devote to presenting their ironclad opinions on the forum.

Many members agree and have openly stated Trump is not perfect, myself included so your comment of ‘forum members having blinders on’ makes no sense. Someone who is dismantling the infrastructure of Agenda 21 via policies, revisions and executive orders and maintaining the sovereignty of their country by pulling out of nefarious treaties can hardly be considered ‘pro-NWO’. [Please give specific examples as to which of his ‘many policies’ are ‘undeniably pro-NOW’ and explain if he is ‘pro-NWO, why then is he dismantling the perfect NWO infrastructure of Agenda 21, as being demonstrated via executive orders on the thread ‘Examples of Trump Administration Dismantling Agenda 21 Deep State’s Agenda 21’. And this is what I mean about backing your statements. If you want people to believe your opinion is based on truth, they want to see support for your viewpoint, otherwise what your saying can be construed only as conjecture.

[Definition: Conjecture
1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
Source: Google search engine

There was discussion about this sometime ago on the forum, speculation as to how the puppetmasters had gone too far in derailing things and so measures would have to be taken to prevent the global economy from falling apart so completely that it would endanger the US and thereby the whole global construct. Though major pawns would have to be sacrificed and much dirt uncovered in the process, inasmuch as the human race is useful to the controllers as long as we are adequately managed, they don't mind that. In other words, the Deep State goes much deeper than we have really been able to prove as yet, and their strategies are more Machiavellian than most of us can imagine, so that not even a billionaire like Trump would be able to match them. But I don't have time to search out links to those discussions for you.

[Fellow Aspirant]

we-R-one

Yes, discussion is good. A smackdown of smothering links and smouldering anger is not. Keeping things simple by offering one or two points at a time is much more likely to elicit a response from those that you might want to engage is a better approach, in my opinion.

Any reasonable debate is much more enjoyable when the participants focus on one or two claims at a time. There's no reason to rush things.

Individual trees get lost too easily when the forest is thick.

Namaste,

Brian

[we-R-one]

Onawah, I'm not looking for a competition and the discussion has nothing to do with competing with one another as you state in your opening remark. The title of this thread is Trump is Not the Answer. You have chosen to participate in the continuance of this thread by posting various points as fact including the promotion of nefarious organizations aligned with Agenda 21 as being the answer rather than Trump.

As Bill stated: “The opportunity here is to discuss and debate the points. Not as emotional belief systems, but with facts and evidence, if at all possible.”

In this case, ‘facts and evidence’ have been possible which is why I posted, questioning several of your remarks while providing support for my posts so the reader and you can understand why I make the statements I do. Even after providing evidence, you still continued promoting a known Environmental Terrorist organization tied to THE UNITED NATIONS.

You then go on to state:

Posted by onawah (here)
There are certainly things continuing to happen under Trump's direct orders that bode no good, but it seems to me that many forum members have become so blindly pro-Trump that, as you probably agree, it is going to be a whole lot less energy and time-consuming to just wait until it becomes obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporters that they have had blinders on to the wider perspective of what is going on and how undeniably pro-NWO many of his policies actually are.

I then asked you an important question based on your recent remarks above:

Posted by we-R-one (here)
Please give specific examples as to which of his ‘many policies’ are ‘undeniably pro-NOW’ and explain if he is ‘pro-NWO, why then is he dismantling the perfect NWO infrastructure of Agenda 21, as being demonstrated via executive orders on the thread ‘Examples of Trump Administration Dismantling Agenda 21 Deep State’s Agenda 21’.

To make such a strong statement as you did above, surely you must have some examples to prove your point as isn’t this thread about Trump Not being The Answer and why?

You respond with this:

Posted by onawah (here)
There was discussion about this sometime ago on the forum, speculation as to how the puppetmasters had gone too far in derailing things and so measures would have to be taken to prevent the global economy from falling apart so completely that it would endanger the US and thereby the whole global construct. Though major pawns would have to be sacrificed and much dirt uncovered in the process, inasmuch as the human race is useful to the controllers as long as we are adequately managed, they don't mind that. In other words, the Deep State goes much deeper than we have really been able to prove as yet, and their strategies are more Machiavellian than most of us can imagine, so that not even a billionaire like Trump would be able to match them. But I don't have time to search out links to those discussions for you.

….Right underneath the definition of conjecture I provided, LOL, sorry I thought that was funny:
Definition: Conjecture
1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
Source: Google search engine

..Which proves my point….you’re making statements based on conjecture(incomplete information) not necessarily facts.

Posted by onawah (here)
I also didn't post anything about renewable energies where they have proven successful. It's not really my job to do that.

Yes you are correct, I went back and looked again, you stated:

Posted by onawah (here)
IMHO, fossil fuels day has already come. There are plenty of green options already available, but they are not being employed.

In which I asked you:

Posted by we-R-one (here)
For clarification, which of those options are you referring to? Then I would want to know, have they been widely tested? Who’s in charge of them? How fast can they be implemented? Are they affordable?

So if ‘there are plenty of green options already available’ based on your statement where are they? What are they? Because if there are ‘plenty’ surely they could easily be identified. I’m asking you to clarify your point to understand what you know as why would you say such a thing if you didn’t have reference to enforce your points? I assumed you were referring to renewable energy because it’s been tested on a wider scale more than anything I know of which would fit your remarks of ‘plenty’…exactly why I asked you to clarify your statements.

Posted by onawah (here)
There are no forum requirements for that kind of proof, as far as I am aware, though we are cautioned to be wary of Silly Season type posts and with good reason.

Yes, I’m glad you brought this up, because this thread is turning into Silly Season reasoning as I’m not seeing any substance of facts to support many of your comments. I am seeing facts of evidence supporting the opposite or a completely different intention than what’s being portrayed.

I don’t expect people to know everything. And I don't care if you don't know something I know. I don't think any less of you. But there are strong statements being made on this thread, painting a picture that isn’t necessarily true. When one questions, provides evidence and asks for supporting evidence of the reciprocal viewpoint, which is what an intelligent person would do in a ‘discussion’ forum, we get accused of derailing the thread, ‘fire hose of information’, ‘I’ve expanded my ignore list’, ‘blindly pro Trump’, off topic(when I’m answering their own posts), ignorant, aggressive, disinformation, fake news, and the list goes on.

The more you interject conjecture, the less believable and weaker your position becomes(Trump is Not The Answer) as anyone can have an opinion about anything. Many of us are tired of opinions and more interested in facts when available.

EDIT TO ADD: What's so classic is you're accusing Trump of being pro-NWO at the same time you're promoting known NWO organizations, SIERRA CLUB AND CENTER FOR BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY, who are both tied to and being used to promote the NWO Agenda 21 blueprint.