Trump is NOT the answer

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
did you simply assign "Deep State" to Obama because he was from the other US political party, and that your major clue was, "if he's a Democrat, he's Deep State"...If you figured Obama out (not just that he was on the other political gang's team), why haven't you figured Trump out yet?

Dennis, in many of your posts you continue to advance the assumption that your readers somehow assume "Deep State" = "Democrat". I enjoy contemplating your posts but frankly you lose me a little bit when you continually push this assumption. First, the assumption is an oxymoron. "Deep State" is not partisan, by definition. Second, the implication you bestow on the reader--particularly those who either support Donald Trump or do not judge him to be a deep-state stooge--and/or who do not summarily dismiss him because he has an (R) next to his name --is the notion the reader subscribes to "Republican = Good", "Democrat = Bad." Your analogy is kind of like charging the reader with the belief that "the Commissioner of Baseball" = "New York Yankees..."

Yes, the term "deep state" has crept into the public lexicon and many people who understand the world through the propaganda arm of deep state itself (MSM) may equate "deep state" with "democrats". The irony is many of your readers, particularly those who support the current POTUS, are neither Republican or Democrat. I do understand the point you are making--but virtually everyone with whom I interact on this forum, even those who support Donald Trump, are fully aware that Rob Manfred is not part of the New York Yankees organization.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Have you ever actually looked at...Trump's actions?...didn't overturn the Patriot Act nor NDAA...

Presidents can't overturn or repeal Acts of Congress... the congress does that--and then the president can either execute or veto the Act--if and when Congress repeals the Patriot Act or NDAA and DJT vetos, I'm fully on board with your argument here--but regardless of whether or not DJT is a puppet of the Deep State, the claim that he hasn't overturned deep state legislation is not a very convincing argument by itself, in my opinion.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
...brokered a huge arms deal to Saudi Arabia, knowingly attacked Syria with bogus "he gassed his own people!" lies known to be lies and exposed as lies by a few brave/crazy souls that wouldn't play along with the White Helmets and OPCW bosses lies, refused to help the Palestinian people and instead helped the genocidal Israeli government, finished off smashing Standing Rock for the oil companies, weakened the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act (the last piece of either citizen-centric or eco-centric rather than corporate-centric legislation passed in the US), signed off on a foreign mining consortium that is well-known to be ecocidal and exploitative to create a sulfide mine in the headwaters of the Mississippi River, condones and praises torture, made racism safe again, made one of the most obvious 9/11 co-conspirators his personal lawyer, hobnobbed with Epstein and oopsie-doodle, suicided him for his own sake and all the other scum elite bastards that sexually exploit kids, and can't even successfully find and prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee" dossier or Seth Rich's murder.

As far as this entire paragraph goes, we can certainly discuss point by point if it serves the topic of this thread. And there is certainly some ground for agreement here. However, I would point out (with some degree of irony) that many of the points appear to me to be simplistic "partisan-like" spin on a much more complex dynamic.

As I often point out in these type of discussions, the United States Government is a colossal--I mean a vastly colossal corporate bureaucracy, with corruption deeply metastasized in every fiber of its over-reaching and rotting being. We can argue whether the current presidential administration is "at war with" or but "an extension of" said corruption, and this would be a valid discussion, also a complex and dynamic one. But to claim because POTUS has failed to root out all corruption and deep state shenanigans as evidence he is simply "more of the same" is not a very convincing argument, imho.

Hey, T, I appreciate your mind. I know you are a thinker, not just a regurgitator.

Rather than do the interspersed point-by-point reply, allow me to lump my reply here.
I see that you do understand that the deep state isn't partisan. I'd guess that if you did a forum search for those solely linking the Democrat corporation to the deep state, such as "DS/Dems", you'll find plenty. So, there are those that do still need a refresher course on who the deep state is, what the phrase means/meant before being hijacked by partisans. Always voting "against Democrats" in a binary system is Republican support, even if the person is registered as an independent, and exactly the same is true for "independents" that somehow seem to always vote against Republicans.

My bad on using the word "overturn", which has implications of the president having complete legislative power over Congress, but the gist is correct. Presidents have been subverting the Constitution increasingly over each successive regime turnover, in using Executive Orders to create policy (even if not correctly called "legislation.") And for those agenda items where the president somehow recognizes that the Congress needs to be consulted, the president champions an idea, like building a border wall between the US and Mexico. So, it's not correct to imply that Trump's hands are tied when he either doesn't even ask Congress (thus ignoring the issue, employing screaming silence as obfuscation), or doesn't expose and push Congress (the limp-wristed, "well I tried!" excuse.) Trump did not ask Congress to overturn the Patriot act and NDAA - and that is telling. It appears that "patriot" just means "agrees with and supports Trump", because there is simply no way that someone can be patriotic/support the Constitution and the citizens of the US and yet not be vehemently opposed to the Patriot Act and the NDAA.

"simplistic "partisan-like" spin"
I looked over the list of off-the-top-of-my-head issues with Trump, and other than the fact that is is obvious that I detest him as a person and as a president, I don't see what you see as partisan-like. The Democrats are warmongering imperialist corporatists; the Republicans are warmongering imperialist corporatists. I have made clear 100 times on this forum that these are a couple of evil corporations that are the public face of the Shadow Government/Deep State. Especially in a binary political system, to decry both mobster families (and the election system they control, and the mass media owned by the same Shadow Government) is about as far away from partisan as is possible. Any 'solution' I have proposed includes, as a key provision, eliminating political parties altogether. Saying that anything I write is "partisan-like" is about like calling me a black lesbian - the shoe doesn't fit. I'm stretching to see your perspective on this. Was it the "racist" accusation? I got that from listening to Trump's racist statements about Mexicans and Arabs/Muslims, not from the Democrat corporation also picking up on it. Most of the issues I listed are international aggression, which blows the Democrat mobsters skirt up just as high as it does the Republican mobsters skirt. Both wings in complete compliance to the Shadow Government decades-long agenda of imperialism, corporatism, full-spectrum dominance, hegemony, and full acquiescence to the military industrial complex corporations.

"But to claim because POTUS has failed to root out all corruption and deep state shenanigans as evidence he is simply "more of the same" is not a very convincing argument, imho."
As far as I can see, he hasn't rooted out any, much less all. I admit to not being able to stomach the "Q" propaganda, which I believe is the primary source for the supposition that Trump is actually going after the Shadow Government/Deep State, and not just (understandably) pissed off at the DNC corp. operatives within the system that smeared him sophomoricly, rather than addressing issues like torture as US policy, support of the MIC as US policy, support of massively bloated military which is used offensively and as as a corporate weapon, etc. The Democrat corporation can't go after Trump on major substance like foreign policy, because they espouse the same substance. Trump's actions prove he is indeed more of the same, maybe typified best by his attack on the sovereign nation of Venezuela, more of the same Shadow Government stomping out any socialism that springs up anywhere, as has been the underlying agenda since the McCarthy days and decades of war (slaughter, really) of anything that they can label "communism." I'll take the opportunity again to point out that the scariest concept for the elite is sharing, because they own the lion's share of land and resources, and it is what they claim as "theirs" that would be shared if any variant of communism or socialism were to emerge.

[T Smith]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Saying that anything I write is "partisan-like" is about like calling me a black lesbian - the shoe doesn't fit. I'm stretching to see your perspective on this.

Hi Dennis, in response to the above, my apologies if my comments imply I am calling you (or any of your writings) partisan... as an aside to the chuckle I got from your comparison, I would never call you partisan. I have been reading your posts for a very long time now and I know full well you are among the least partisan commentators on Avalon (You certainly don't make a secret of it). My comments are more in response to the last couple points you made about Trump "hobnobbing with Epstein" and having "him suicided," which seemed to me more like spin than reality; because Trump was once photographed with Epstein at a society party, or because he may have once said kind words in public about Epstein years ago, for whatever the purpose or reason, doesn't suggest to me he "hobnobbed" with Epstein, ran in Epstein's private circles, or is a pedophile. There is no evidence of that as far as I know. (If there were I would bet the farm relentless and vicious Trump detractors and their MSM lapdogs would be all over such evidence and would have beaten a much more concrete link between Trump and Epstein into our heads long ago...). Of course one with motive and agenda could still "spin" a random photograph of the two seen together in public or a comment made by Trump to imply a narrative suiting a slanderous agenda. But as far as my understanding goes, Trump was not among the many, many politicians and socialites who flew on the Lolita Express, nor did Trump ever visit the private island, etc. Those lists are long and wide and are posted in many places here on the forum. Trump is not on them. I also highly doubt Epstein had any dirt on Trump, nor did Trump have any real meaningful ties with Epstein. So there would also be no motive for Trump to "suicide Epstein..." So these comments sounded more like "partisan" spin to me, but since I know that is not your angle, I'm assuming either you (or I) may be misinformed on our respective viewpoints.

Moving on, I would make a similar point about Trump failing to prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee dossier" or Seth Rich's murder. I agree he has failed on this front, but it would seem to me he has failed not for a lack of trying or because he is secretly a deep-state stooge giving said criminals a pass. Hasn't Trump been angling to take down his detractors this whole time? Which, I would add, is a battle he is ill-equipped to win. Without the DOJ's willingness to do what is necessary, or the 100% commitment of all participants, witnesses, and actors involved to "battle the mobsters" to the death, as it were, there is just little-to-no path to victory there. For better or worse, I think Trump understands this and picks battles he thinks he can win, not battles that are feckless or might bear him embarrassment or drive him six feet under.

Even so, (to speak to another ire of yours) my understanding is Trump did dangle a pardon chip to Julian Assange if Assange would agree to reveal that Seth Rich was the Wikileaks source of the DNC hack, not the Russians... this would have been Trump's one silver bullet that may have--just may have--done the trick to bury the bastards (to channel the words of the greatly-missed Paul I'm certainly not agreeing with Trump's tactic if this is true--and if so, I am annoyed to learn Trump is holding a pardon over Assange to advance his agenda--I'm just pointing out Trump is trying to take down the pee-pee dossier criminals using less-than-clean tricks himself. He has merely failed. But not for the lack of trying.

To clarify the comments of my post, I do not take issue with the personal disappointments in the POTUS you laid out in your post; my disagreement lies in your dug-in stance implying Trump is not the answer because he is just another deep-state stooge carrying water for the PTB; this is not how I understand what is going on here. And whether we can agree or disagree on the varying line-item grievances we discuss when we assess Trump, the POTUS and person, I maintain he is a rouge actor in this equation and is trying on some fronts to root out the corruption and failing on others. On some fronts he is not present at all. All said, I do not subscribe to the notion he is just another a deep-state stooge. The evidence suggests otherwise to me. As such there is both potential and danger to both thwart or advance the deep state agenda.

Perhaps history will judge me naive, but for now let's agree to disagree on this last point...

Kind Regards,

T

[Dennis Leahy]

Ahhh, OK. Yes, that "had him suicided" was speculative.

The mainscream media did release the story of just Trump and Epstein and "28 calendar girls" at Mar Lago: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pa...rls-2019-07-10 If nothing else, this (again) exposes Trump's character. I doubt that Trump jumped one of those girls - with 27 witnesses, but it is a pretty sleazy voyeuristic event to throw for yourself, that is, for yourself and and only your buddy Epstein and 28 "calendar girls." It's not proof of having Epstein silenced, even though we'd all have to admit that Trump certainly wishes that calendar girl event with Epstein had been - and remained - secret. Trump was rich enough (or had enough credit) to not need to go to pedo island, but rather to bring girls to himself. Again, not "suicided" proof, but proof of sleazy, low character at the very least.

I know that there are some people who believe Epstein - a quintessential sociopath - actually did kill himself. Sociopaths don't commit suicide. Someone would have to be as naive as a small town toddler to believe Epstein killed himself.

On reflection (didn't take much), I did overstep with that "had him suicided" comment. You're right - I did jump the shark there, and totally unnecessarily so, as there is plenty of uncontested, overt, history to assess Trump. A lot of bigwig pedophiles had a lot of reasons for ol' Jeff to "commit suicide." It did happen while in custody, with Trump as president, and with such an important witness snuffed, Trump (at the very least) lost the chance to glean a lot of data about bigwig pedophiles. So, to me, since Trump evidently didn't have the power - as sitting president!, with full disposal of alphabet agencies! - to find out who DID suicide him, then how can people believe that Trump is going to take down the Deep State? Doesn't that seem like a ridiculously silly notion if he couldn't even pick this low-hanging fruit?

My point is the same about Seth Rich's murder and who ordered the hit, as well as who ordered the pee pee dossier: this is comparatively low hanging fruit, and the Shadow Government/Deep State is like a herd of tyranosaurus rex compared to these mice. Trump & his 9/11 co-conspirator lawyer, and all the kings men, can't take down these criminals, then people have no business lionizing the guy due to his bluster and to believe he is going to take down the Deep State.

As for whether Trump is even aiming at the Deep State, we have to go back to what the Deep State/Shadow Government really is, and what their primary agenda is, and how they are actuating their agenda. Three US military generals and the USA budget tell us what the primary agenda of the Deep State is, and what their main tools are.

Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler told us all not only that "war is a racket", but admitted being duped into killing innocent people and taking over countries for corporations.

Gen. Eisenhower gave powerful testimony in his farewell speech, admitting that the Military Industrial Complex had already gotten out of hand and he knew they would wield "undue influence" (and we know they only metastasized exponentially after his warning.)

Gen. Wesley Clark told us after 9/11 that the then-current Pentagon brass didn't know what else to do other than to start a war. "If all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail."

The US military is the enforcement wing of the Deep State, doing their bidding (obfuscated, when necessary, with nebulous patriotic propaganda and demonization of a non-compliant foreign government heads of state.) The Deep State's major agenda is imperialism, resource theft, and (like the board game "Risk") geostrategic hegemony. It is accomplished using the US military. (Hey, who wants to pay a fair price for raw materials when you can get them for free by stealing them?) Socialism, or any other name for a government with foundational principles of sharing among the citizens rather than being funneled into oligarchs pockets, also needs to be wiped out, so some countries are destroyed or their governments are replaced with Deep State compliant puppets without a major geostrategic reason - except making an example of them, to dissuade other countries from becoming citizen-centric.

The US economy is outrageously dominated by purchases from the MIC. The US budget is dominated by MIC expenditure. Most large-scale non-military manufacturing was moved out of the US by corporate oligarchs, for greater profits, less (or no) worry about pollution, and wage exploitation of foreign workers. If Trump wanted to have a robust economy to ride to another term, (or just to be liked), the only short-term option was/is acquiescing to the Deep State's military agenda, and spearheading a nearly trillion dollar budget to go to the MIC. In fact, I believe they have painted themselves into a corner, (similar to Gen Clark's statement), and the only way at this point not to drop into a full-on economic depression/bust in the US was to prop up the economy's numbers through gigantic purchases from MIC corporations. He also had to pander to the fossil fuel cartel, but he was already an investor and they didn't have to twist his arm.

Rather than admitting that he was propping up the US economy from collapse by acquiescing to the Deep State's agenda, he pretends to be fighting the Deep State. Unprincipled, sociopathic, pragmatist, at best. The USA economy is now based on killing people, dropping bombs and shooting missiles...and then ordering another round of ammo and doing it again. And again. And again. A man of principle and integrity would have told the US citizens that there was going to be a major recession (at least), while the US tooled-up again to do its own manufacturing, and would have told US citizens that it would be wrong to continue on allowing the MIC and war to be the bulk of the US economy. Tariffs would be imposed (the only thing I agree with that Trump has done) or else no US-made goods could compete with the globalist's imports. But, none of that happened, because Trump is not a man of principle and integrity - he wanted to put one in the "win" column, and that meant dancing with the current military industrial complex corporations, the most overt sector of the Deep State.

He really is a pawn of the Deep State.

[onawah]

Trump "Coronavirus - Never Fear the Vaccine is Near"
Mar 3, 2020

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2qboTbeRMns

[jaybee]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Moving on, I would make a similar point about Trump failing to prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee dossier" or Seth Rich's murder. I agree he has failed on this front, but it would seem to me he has failed not for a lack of trying or because he is secretly a deep-state stooge giving said criminals a pass. Hasn't Trump been angling to take down his detractors this whole time? Which, I would add, is a battle he is ill-equipped to win. Without the DOJ's willingness to do what is necessary, or the 100% commitment of all participants, witnesses, and actors involved to "battle the mobsters" to the death, as it were, there is just little-to-no path to victory there. For better or worse, I think Trump understands this and picks battles he thinks he can win, not battles that are feckless or might bear him embarrassment or drive him six feet under.


T

That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned - the only time he had a tiny bit of praise is when there was the token bombing in Syria after the chemical weapon hoax blamed on Assad --- Trump went on TV talking about 'beautiful babies' being gassed by the monster Assad and they (MSM and their paymasters) loved it - I think that at some point Trump probably found out he had been conned about it and wasn't pleased about that - but what can he do ? He is only one man surrounded by the enemy -

I feel that his detractors have an unrealistic view of what he CAN do and expect him to be a kind of Superman to combat the institutionalized corruption that is embedded in the system - then when he doesn't behave like Superman he is heavily criticized and hated -

At least Trump isn't trying to destroy America and kill American's - like the Globalists seem to be (ie advocating open borders and planning depopulation) -


The Globalists and New World Order are in both main Parties (ie the Republican Bushes) but I do think they have a much stronger grip on the Democrats and are using them as their political base at the moment....

[jaybee]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

A man of principle and integrity would have told the US citizens that there was going to be a major recession (at least), while the US tooled-up again to do its own manufacturing, and would have told US citizens that it would be wrong to continue on allowing the MIC and war to be the bulk of the US economy. Tariffs would be imposed (the only thing I agree with that Trump has done) or else no US-made goods could compete with the globalist's imports. But, none of that happened, because Trump is not a man of principle and integrity - he wanted to put one in the "win" column, and that meant dancing with the current military industrial complex corporations, the most overt sector of the Deep State.

He really is a pawn of the Deep State.

He IS trying to keep the US economy afloat and may have to do things that you disagree with to do that - but the alternative might not be very good for the citizens of the US - ie Economy crash - widespread social unrest - massive increase in crime and poverty - I don't think he (or anyone) can do what you are asking - I myself would like what you are asking but the Globalists and Warmongers have too much of a grip and I think we have to be pragmatic about what's possible and what isn't -

I think Trump is trying to make manoeuvres in the direction you speak of but has to play it careful because of what he's up against -

Anyway perhaps the Corona Virus Thing will crash the economy and Trump will get the blame and all his detractors will be happy as they slowly die of the mysterious bio-weapon ... shaking their fists at the sky and cursing Trump with their last breath as the Real Perpetrators watch on with satisfaction of a job well done... ???

[jaybee]

Posted by onawah (here)
Trump "Coronavirus - Never Fear the Vaccine is Near"
Mar 3, 2020

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2qboTbeRMns

what a blummin nightmare this whole thing is - with the mysterious virus and then the inevitable clamor for a vaccine -
that will probably finish the job that the Virus started....

I liked Trump's little quip at the end regarding the high numbers of deaths from regular flu and saying.... "I told the pharmaceutical companies you'll have to do a better job on that vaccine..."

I never have the flu jab myself and wouldn't trust a vaccine against Corona Virus - but how far will they go with it? Like would they make it compulsory for certain workers and then keep expanding out the compulsory part -

CAN there be a successful vaccine against a man made bio weapon virus....? They certainly won't be discussing THAT on the MSM...
Perhaps the Elite will have the top notch vaccine that works against it but the General Population will get 'something else' -

I could go on but I'm on paranoia overload now

As President, Trump will have no choice but to try and save as many lives as he can and if this means buying into the vaccination thing because there is no other option, he will have to do that - while crossing his fingers behind his back (even though the vaccine might not do any good in the long run)

[jaybee]

Posted by Ratszinger (here)

Posted by jaybee (here)

Posted by Ratszinger (here)
Everyone thinks they have an idea of what is going on but the truth is they only have what they have been told, or I should say fed! What they've been fed is agenda to groom them toward a particular course or action the leaders of this world want to go. Six people run the planet! Six! Three of those six are popes, the black pope, the white pope, and the one seen in the public by everyone! Who are the others? It doesn't really matter does it the fact is they run the show. Trump answers to one of those three, Hillary answers to one of those three, and every other prez or prez candidate or anyone in any position at all answers to them in the end! Q likely answers to them too if Q isn't one of them himself or herself!

They all work toward the same goal! That goal is to lead the sheep and the sheep don't need to know anything other than to follow their directions so they lead them right to where they want them! Trump leads the world in the exact same direction Obama took us painting blurry pictures for all to see so as to hide the fact he is actually on the same page as Obama in every way as far as doing the bidding of his masters is concerned. We still move toward the same new world order of a one world central bank and a one world government they always wanted and each day it gets closer to them reaching their goal! There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirror action with Trump shuffling people in and out so fast at times that it gets hard to focus but the fact is Trump answers to the same people Obama answered to.

By the way I knew Barry before anyone ever heard of him! Before he was a politician at all he was a "Bob Marley" wannabe and dressed like him too! And for that matter he smelled like him but the guy has never been honest about anything ever! Barry was a foreign student when I met him and he lived in Chicago at the time. My understanding when I met Barry and when my friend Harry met him, we both understood him to be from Nigeria as a foreign student going to school! He later lived next door to Harry my friend for over 10.5 years with Michelle and then when he got to councilman and started hanging with penguin suits suddenly Barry took on a new look after going to spa to get cleaned up, and Michelle smiled and showed her teeth for the first time and they were white!

Before this you never saw that side of either of them! Harry and I stood back and watched as the democratic party took this smelling foreigner off the street, cleaned him up and groomed him for president in disbelief much the same way they took Hillary early on when raw, sent her off to spa and next thing you know she is up there on the stage waving to someone like she knows them the same way all the others do! All phony! All taught to them just to deceive a dumb public to asleep at wheel or too busy struggling through life to see the con game these elitists play with us! Barry was a phony from the word go and we witnessed it! He told his mailman, who I know by the way, to his face that he was going to be president! Barry said that not as if, not as if I want to be prez, but point blank that he knew, he knew even then that he was set to be prez and said so to that man that I know and he has said this to me publicly and on tape that Barry did this yet no one hears! OUR ELECTION IS CRAP! HE was selected just like Trump was end of story~!

I enjoyed that post

The thing about Trump being selected though - if this were true wouldn't he have the teeny weenyist bit of support from the MSM who appear to be in complete tandem with, and controlled by, the Shadowy Deep State socially engineering the flock -

Whatever the good or bad about Trump I still feel his election victory was a nasty surprise to the Globalist Elite, who wanted Clinton -

Thank you. I believe that everyone is playing their role. Q even hints to this at times in posts made calling it a show all the time as if it is all scripted and one wonders based on the predictive accuracy if that isn't the case. It all indicates illusion of two sides when in fact there is just one dude behind both making each play their specific parts. At some point a larger part of the pop. will overwhelmingly come into the Trump camp to support him after the game plays out and one side falls. As a necessary part of the plan the plan requires the people to support it to drive it all home in the end so it has to be engineered to have support of the people behind the leader of the flock to work.

The people in this case will unknowingly demand the new world order just as I stated in another post. If they actually knew the facts of what was going on they'd never be behind it but the plan calls for making this old world order so uncomfortable, so horrid as to make the people demand change and then the people will literally shove the NWO right into place and the elitists close the gate and the hammer comes down on the world at that point cause the people walked themselves right into where the elitists running the show wanted them all along!

As I also pointed out when Trump took over he went right into North Korea, then Syria and he has been working both over and now Iran just as I predicted he would in 2016. He picked up right where Barry left off and once each of those last three countries with their own currencies falls they'll get new central FED banks and the new world order commences. I believe Trump was selected just to usher in their NWO!

So what you seem to be saying is that we are all doomed and nothing and no one can save us

I don't expect Trump (or Brexit) to save us but at least it's a bit of a fight back -

And if the NWO get their Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 or whatever it is... modern society will atrophy and fizzle out anyway -
The collapse of civilization is just round the corner as it always is - we won't be the first and we won't be the last -
Individuals are going to die anyway - none of us are going avoid that in these bodies -

so yes I supposed we are doomed - in the broad sense but can do we we can on a day to day basis - and hope for the best -

Cue for a song Monty Python Always look on the Bright Side of Life / Death...

I won't post it - you know how it goes -

[T Smith]

Posted by jaybee (here)


That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned

Exactly right. I would take your cogent analysis one step further... the psychological operation isn't just being waged against Trump 24/7, but also against the people 24/7. The result is subtle and sophisticated propaganda/borderline mind-control NWO agitprop designed to instill irrational rage and hatred, i.e. (Orwell's Two Minutes of Hate, the role of Goldstein played by DJT), in those who might otherwise maintain benign ideological or political differences, and especially among those with ideological and political differences most unaligned with the NWO agenda. The extremes of these generated aspersions range from Trump Derangement Syndrome to millions of people reduced to A Basket of Deplorables.

As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic.

I would challenge all to examine their hatred and direct their understanding and passions to the source...

[T Smith]

Posted by jaybee (here)

As President, Trump will have no choice but to try and save as many lives as he can and if this means buying into the vaccination thing because there is no other option, he will have to do that - while crossing his fingers behind his back (even though the vaccine might not do any good in the long run)

No power on Earth can stop or deter a fearful mob. The vaccine will push forward--likely manditorily depending on how much fear the underlying agenda can stir up among the people--regardless what Trump wants or thinks of it. I doubt the vaccine will save lives, but even if it saves some lives that may have been otherwise claimed by CoViD-19, it will kill, maim, and/or harm many more lives, either by design or otherwise (which is outside the scope of this discussion). Trump or any other leader will be left only to ride the wave on this one, wherever that wave takes us.

[Dennis Leahy]

If Trump was duped by his team or military brass into promoting and militarily acting upon the "Assad gassed his own people!" hoax, think about what that says. And, if anyone thinks Trump was a victim there, and now he knows it, why did he subsequently move troops into occupying Syrian oilfields - where they still are today. He also continues the Deep State rhetoric/propaganda about Assad. The objective is to prevent Syria from using their own best natural resource asset to rebuild their sovereign nation, the one who's refugees became the "refugee crisis" in Europe. Not allowing Syria to rebuild sure walks, talks, and smells like the Deep State globalists (I think more accurately noted as the Global Corporate Network.)

Since at least November of 1963, the CIA's tactic has been to hire hitmen rather than be hitmen. It works for plausible deniability and to obfuscate the origin of the vector of attack, and especially in foreign countries, only "local assets" can infiltrate. I hope that most of us are in agreement that the CIA are the visible face of, and high-level geostrategic managers for, the Deep State. I sure hope none of us are confused on that point. The CIA created alQaeda and ISIS, and used them as hitmen against Syria. CIA asset Barry was not able to check Syria off of the "7 countries in 5 years" hitlist that Wesley Clark told us about, but added the US military bombs and missiles to the CIA-fomented efforts to destroy much of the Syrian infrastructure (not the oilfields, notably) and cause a flood of refugees.

So, with eyes wide open, we note that Obama (using the US military as a tool) and the CIA tried to knock-off Syria (not just Assad), and create a flood of refugees - and we know this was Deep State operation (primarily geostrategic against Iran, and primarily for Israel.) If you give Trump a pass, saying that he was deliberately mis-advised about Assad "gassing his own people!", then are you also going to give Trump a pass for the continuing military occupation of Syria's oilfields, furthering the Deep State agenda? Why is it that Trumps affiliation with the Deep State and furthering Deep State agenda is somehow misrepresented as something other than assisting the Deep State?

Let's examine Venezuela for a minute. The Deep State "department of energy" is the oil syndicate. Venezuela nationalized its oil industry, "taking it away" from globalist oil companies. So it would make sense that the globalist's/Deep State's CIA would become involved (in the ways that John Perkins clued us into), and of course, they did. But why would Trump - if you believe he doesn't represent the Deep State and its interests - help the Deep State, doing everything possible to help destabilize Venezuela from the US government angle, such as freezing assets and creating sanctions (economic war via the US government), and using the power of the USA to recognize an obvious globalist (who will un-nationalize Venezuela's oil and "give it back" to the globalist oil syndicate, and end the social-ist programs funded by that Venezuelan oil) as the real president of Venezuela?

Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.

I'm not expressing "hatred", I'm expressing dismay at my fellow citizens that fall for spin and propaganda and listen to pretty words instead of examining actions. I do have something akin to "hatred" for the psychopathic syndicate that controls (and owns) most of the world, the Deep State upper echelon, the US American Empire segment of the Global Syndicate, the Ruling Elite. I don't think it is misplaced nor unwarranted. I will again strongly recommend the Metanoia-Films.org documentary "The Power Principle" for everyone, and especially if you don't have a good understanding of who the syndicate is that causes hell on Earth and murders hundreds of millions of innocent souls for financial gain and for control.

[Ratszinger]

Posted by jaybee (here)

Posted by Ratszinger (here)

Posted by jaybee (here)

Posted by Ratszinger (here)
Everyone thinks they have an idea of what is going on but the truth is they only have what they have been told, or I should say fed! What they've been fed is agenda to groom them toward a particular course or action the leaders of this world want to go. Six people run the planet! Six! Three of those six are popes, the black pope, the white pope, and the one seen in the public by everyone! Who are the others? It doesn't really matter does it the fact is they run the show. Trump answers to one of those three, Hillary answers to one of those three, and every other prez or prez candidate or anyone in any position at all answers to them in the end! Q likely answers to them too if Q isn't one of them himself or herself!

They all work toward the same goal! That goal is to lead the sheep and the sheep don't need to know anything other than to follow their directions so they lead them right to where they want them! Trump leads the world in the exact same direction Obama took us painting blurry pictures for all to see so as to hide the fact he is actually on the same page as Obama in every way as far as doing the bidding of his masters is concerned. We still move toward the same new world order of a one world central bank and a one world government they always wanted and each day it gets closer to them reaching their goal! There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirror action with Trump shuffling people in and out so fast at times that it gets hard to focus but the fact is Trump answers to the same people Obama answered to.

By the way I knew Barry before anyone ever heard of him! Before he was a politician at all he was a "Bob Marley" wannabe and dressed like him too! And for that matter he smelled like him but the guy has never been honest about anything ever! Barry was a foreign student when I met him and he lived in Chicago at the time. My understanding when I met Barry and when my friend Harry met him, we both understood him to be from Nigeria as a foreign student going to school! He later lived next door to Harry my friend for over 10.5 years with Michelle and then when he got to councilman and started hanging with penguin suits suddenly Barry took on a new look after going to spa to get cleaned up, and Michelle smiled and showed her teeth for the first time and they were white!

Before this you never saw that side of either of them! Harry and I stood back and watched as the democratic party took this smelling foreigner off the street, cleaned him up and groomed him for president in disbelief much the same way they took Hillary early on when raw, sent her off to spa and next thing you know she is up there on the stage waving to someone like she knows them the same way all the others do! All phony! All taught to them just to deceive a dumb public to asleep at wheel or too busy struggling through life to see the con game these elitists play with us! Barry was a phony from the word go and we witnessed it! He told his mailman, who I know by the way, to his face that he was going to be president! Barry said that not as if, not as if I want to be prez, but point blank that he knew, he knew even then that he was set to be prez and said so to that man that I know and he has said this to me publicly and on tape that Barry did this yet no one hears! OUR ELECTION IS CRAP! HE was selected just like Trump was end of story~!

I enjoyed that post

The thing about Trump being selected though - if this were true wouldn't he have the teeny weenyist bit of support from the MSM who appear to be in complete tandem with, and controlled by, the Shadowy Deep State socially engineering the flock -

Whatever the good or bad about Trump I still feel his election victory was a nasty surprise to the Globalist Elite, who wanted Clinton -

Thank you. I believe that everyone is playing their role. Q even hints to this at times in posts made calling it a show all the time as if it is all scripted and one wonders based on the predictive accuracy if that isn't the case. It all indicates illusion of two sides when in fact there is just one dude behind both making each play their specific parts. At some point a larger part of the pop. will overwhelmingly come into the Trump camp to support him after the game plays out and one side falls. As a necessary part of the plan the plan requires the people to support it to drive it all home in the end so it has to be engineered to have support of the people behind the leader of the flock to work.

The people in this case will unknowingly demand the new world order just as I stated in another post. If they actually knew the facts of what was going on they'd never be behind it but the plan calls for making this old world order so uncomfortable, so horrid as to make the people demand change and then the people will literally shove the NWO right into place and the elitists close the gate and the hammer comes down on the world at that point cause the people walked themselves right into where the elitists running the show wanted them all along!

As I also pointed out when Trump took over he went right into North Korea, then Syria and he has been working both over and now Iran just as I predicted he would in 2016. He picked up right where Barry left off and once each of those last three countries with their own currencies falls they'll get new central FED banks and the new world order commences. I believe Trump was selected just to usher in their NWO!

So what you seem to be saying is that we are all doomed and nothing and no one can save us

I don't expect Trump (or Brexit) to save us but at least it's a bit of a fight back -

And if the NWO get their Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 or whatever it is... modern society will atrophy and fizzle out anyway -
The collapse of civilization is just round the corner as it always is - we won't be the first and we won't be the last -
Individuals are going to die anyway - none of us are going avoid that in these bodies -

so yes I supposed we are doomed - in the broad sense but can do we we can on a day to day basis - and hope for the best -

Cue for a song Monty Python Always look on the Bright Side of Life / Death...

I won't post it - you know how it goes -

I would like it to be otherwise but as everyone can see right before our eyes the elitists are carrying on with their plans and depopulation is going on world wide it appears. If this coronavirus is what it is reported to be then it appears Trump has not stopped the plans they have told us were coming to fruition at all it's just biz as usual containing the herd. Sadly I do not believe any white hat dudes exist to save us. I think when you take a white hat guy and stick him in with a bunch of black hat guys that like putting good cells in with bad in a petri dish you witness those good cells turn bad right quick. Same way in D.C. as it is in a petri dish.

[RogeRio]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.

may be much cartezian (yes-no, good-bad), which probably make it paradoxal.

Trump isn't a Iniciate, so he's not committed with Deep State cults (like iluminatti)
All US presidents are controlled by corporative Hidden Hands, all them are pawns..

Trump may be the less pawn and the less commited with deep State for some time
at least he says what he thinks, not what media wants him to say and do publicly,
but he obviously need to negotiate with powerful corporativism to be US president,
because none of them are 100% immune to such influences rooted in the system.

" a window of opportunity it is neither an entrance nor an exit big gateway "

[AutumnW]

Trump love is a religion. And many evangelicals are smitten because he promises to deliver them out of the **** show of everyday life as Moses promised to deliver the Israelites out of Egypt.

It boils down to belief and how this plays out. I give his believers this...they can look at this gasbag upside down, sideways and from every conceivable angle and if, during his current term they can manage to rationalize a treacherous goofball as a superlative human being, so be it. It's a forgivable delusion, at this point.

But come his next 4 years, when he will feel freer to act with impunity without having to pander in the leas to his voting bloc, watch the out. It's going to be a disaster for everybody, except possibly the most deranged theocrats and fanatics.

You have no idea how close you are to a full on overt fascist dictatorship right now.

[T Smith]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Trump love is a religion... I give his believers this...they can look at this gasbag upside down, sideways and from every conceivable angle and if, during his current term they can manage to rationalize a treacherous goofball as a superlative human being, so be it.

This is high praise (although I'm sure that's not your intent...) What power or quality do you suppose he possesses to elicit such beguiling and untenable allure?

[jaybee]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.

I suppose the Deep State is seeking to make him a pawn in their power games and sometimes they succeed (for whatever reason) and sometimes they don't - maybe sometimes he let's them do it (in a deal making way) and sometimes he doesn't - sometimes he gets conned or acquesces because he needs the military on side or he would probably get ousted or assassinated pretty quick - I don't think it's an all or nothing situation - like with Syria - he was going to withdraw all the US troops then all hell broke loose from those who didn't want that - then he managed to pull the US troops out along the Northern border and all hell broke loose and the MSM went nuts accusing him of betraying the Kurds and sucking up to Russia - now he has compromised and kept 500 ish troops 'guarding' the Syrian Oil Fields - my own view is that those oil fields should be in Assad / Syrian control - but I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes to promp that decision - it might be to do with Iran and Israel somehow..? although it is sold about being to do with keeping a resurgent ISIS / IS out of them (the Oil Fields) - perhaps soon if he stays President for another 4 years he will manage to get the remaining troops out as he wanted to originally?
I just hope he knows what he's doing regarding the Oil Fields because Russia isn't happy about it and of course Assad / Syria isn't because the US doesn't have any right to be there -

Syria is a mess (thanks to the intervention of the US / UK etc) furthering the Globalist's plans to help create a Sunni lead Islamic State on the land (think that's what was basically going on) otherwise Assad and the Syrian Army could have mopped up the situation quite quickly with or without Russia's help - (?)



Trump is overseeing the end of the US war in Afghanistan (provided it all goes to plan and there aren't problems that stop it) and there is the (fragile) Peace Treaty with the Taliban that might or might not hold ...

Venezuela - I can't comment on that really but without the oil I expect no one would care what kind of government they have -

So - in conclusion, Trump might be unwittingly or knowingly a pawn of the Deep State sometimes - but they are bound to try and reign him in and control him - and with all his other duties he has to spend time on and all the negative spin and name calling and disrespect he has thrown at him 24/7.... he is still standing and even if it's only a temporary situation he has given the Political Elite and Deep State a run for their money

To compensate and punish us for Trump and Brexit and the rise of Populism in the West the Globalists appear to have accelerated their Agenda and now we have the Coronavirus Thing which is shaping up to be a BIG shake up world wide - :/ - to put it mildly :/

[jaybee]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by jaybee (here)


That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned

Exactly right. I would take your cogent analysis one step further... the psychological operation isn't just being waged against Trump 24/7, but also against the people 24/7. The result is subtle and sophisticated propaganda/borderline mind-control NWO agitprop designed to instill irrational rage and hatred, i.e. (Orwell's Two Minutes of Hate, the role of Goldstein played by DJT), in those who might otherwise maintain benign ideological or political differences, and especially among those with ideological and political differences most unaligned with the NWO agenda. The extremes of these generated aspersions range from Trump Derangement Syndrome to millions of people reduced to A Basket of Deplorables.

As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic.

I would challenge all to examine their hatred and direct their understanding and passions to the source...

Well said - and I agree it does affect us all - to keep some long term friendships intact it's usually best to just steer clear of certain subjects - like Trump

Trying to understand what's going on is a work in progress but so many intelligent educated people are just indulging in the knee jerk reactions promoted by the 'program' - (IMO)

[T Smith]

Posted by jaybee (here)

I suppose the Deep State is seeking to make him a pawn in their power games and sometimes they succeed (for whatever reason) and sometimes they don't - maybe sometimes he let's them do it (in a deal making way) and sometimes he doesn't - sometimes he gets conned or acquesces because he needs the military on side or he would probably get ousted or assassinated pretty quick - I don't think it's an all or nothing situation -

In the game of chess a player sometimes gambits or his/her opponent outmaneuvers and corners a group of pieces, rendering them feckless to the battle or forces an unwanted move. Depending on the strength of board position, etc., sometimes unequal exchanges are made; you win some, you lose some. Sometimes the player executes an outright blunder. Sometimes the tables turn between players multiple times in a single game, both for better and worse, depending on the strength or success of any given strategy or move.

The question here isn't who is winning or what the score is, or even how good the players are, but whether Trump is at the table, looking across the board at the Deep State, or on the table, a mere Deep State pawn.

I think you've answered that question nicely...

[RogeRio]

Posted by T Smith (here)
The question here isn't who is winning or what the score is, or even how good the players are, but whether Trump is at the table, looking across the board at the Deep State, or on the table, a mere Deep State pawn.

I will try to go a little further: A surely elite (banker) man once said to me, about economic crisis:

when everything runs fine, everyone earns some money and thrives moderately, but throught crisis, people lose what they have saved and we get more rich quicker.

I have no doubt that Covid-19 health threat is being explored by elite bankers to create another (worldwide economic) crisis, similar to the 2008 crisis, but this time the focus began in China and not inside US, which is the richest country in the world.

Interesting to note that (supposedly forged) crisis start after Trump administration made several restrictions on chinese business with US trades from China.

elite bankers don't want to break the whole world at once, so they move around pieces on the board to get advantages on a game that they can only win if there are opponents to play with them until the end, and I think that's exactly why the (bankers economic crisis) game never ends.

in that sense, it seems to me that Trump has been more an opponent to match the Deep State than an pawn committed to losing the game in the first and obvious moves possible to be played in this economic pattern (as a chess).

his ambition to want to be a rich, big famous and a paternalistic good man, is somehow forcing his opponents to expose themselves more than perhaps elites would like to be exposed to public opinion.

[Ratszinger]

Posted by turiya (here)
Most had no clue in what was going to be the outcome... including those who you would consider to be "the controllers at the very top" . Face it - they had no clue... and are still running around - like chickens - trying to figure out what had happened???

You make for a good Conspiracy Theorist... but they were blind-sided with the rest of the sheople... plain & simple: Trump took most by surprise!

No matter what happens they have a plan for it. One way or the other no matter what happens that they lose control over, such as Trump. Lets say they did get him out somehow and replace him with a leftist talking head. Just for argument's sake it doesn't matter which they pick on the left they'll all direct the course of their agenda toward the same ultimate goal of a one world government, and a one world bank and a triad system of popes calling the shots for the entire planet. The white pope, the black pope, and the one everyone knows and sees all the time. So far I see nothing to indicate this plan has been stopped. The triad system of the London banking, Vatican City religious arm and District of Columbia military arm of world power is still in place and functioning and no matter which prez was there that would still be the case. The controllers don't lose control when they dictate to both sides. What happens is screw ups by the ones they command where chips fall where they may on occasion but they always have back up plans.