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Thread: Trump is NOT the answer

  1. Link to Post #341
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I agree much of the divisions between us are often manufactured, or at least heightened, highlighted, and encouraged by the elite/Rothschild Agenda -- all to keep us from uniting and looking at who is really pulling the strings and accumulating all the wealth/power/etc.

    But unfortunately, the divisions are very real, there IS much hatred and sexism and racism and greed and ugliness in this world, even without the string pulling of the Puppet Masters, and the “asinine tweets” are quite hurtful to those in some ways identifying with them, particularly when they are coming from the very person who is supposed to set the national tone. And particularly when his apologists suggest that the comments are justified, or that the reactions to them are somehow overblown, exaggerated by the “left,” etc….

    As a woman, I have experienced sexism and misogyny up close and personal. I have had jobs where women are blatantly paid less for the same work (I once had a male assistant who was paid more than I was). I have had to endure catcalls simply walking down a NYC street that were really scary and hostile sexual threats. Once, a while back, when picking up some take out at a local restaurant, I had a very drunk man sitting at his outside table scream out demanding that I show him my “T$%s”…. His friend looked slightly embarrassed but laughed along with him and did nothing. I was horrified and terrified. They were large men. I am thin, much smaller than they were, and had my three year old daughter with me. I had mom jeans and a mom shirt on, for anyone obnoxious enough to think I provoked such a request.

    I have never wanted a rich man to grope me by the privates and I find it horrifying that our President thinks that’s an ok thing to do. Instead, as a young woman trying to build a career, more than one man told me patronizingly that I was “too pretty to also be smart” and that I should “smile more” and that “women shouldn’t do this, that, or the other thing….” I have been asked to make coffee and copies more times than you can imagine in a roomful of “peers” -- and I have actually been barred from certain places in Texas because they were “Men Only” Good Old Boy Private Dining establishments, even though these were the places where the deals were getting done, so excluding all the women naturally meant the women were not getting in on the deals. I know I am not alone in many of these experiences.

    There’s so much more personal and more painful that I won’t discuss here. But Boo hoo, right? Point out Trump’s misogyny and the response is that the public is getting sick of these overblown calls of racism and sexism just because “we” don’t like what is said. Yes, I admit it. I don’t LIKE when the President of the United States suggests a woman is on her period simply because she’s asking questions he doesn’t like. I don’t LIKE when he suggests a woman who criticizes him is ugly, fat, a bimbo, bleeding from wherever, etc… Call me CRAZY, but I find those things offensive and misogynistic. And I’m WHITE, but guess what, if Trump started tweeting racial slurs I’d find that extremely offensive and horrifically RACIST too. Guess I’m just oversensitive to Bullies and Unhinged Misogynists, particularly when they hold the highest office in the nation.

    You would think, no matter one’s politics, that treating women in a degrading, overtly hostile and sexual way would not be tolerated or condoned. That it would be universally condemned. But one member asks what was “sexist” about Trump’s latest remarks and suggests men get plastic surgery too. Another suggests I’m being hyperbolic for pointing out that some members have left or took themselves out of active participation because of concerns over tolerating racist and xenophobic remarks on the forum– when this is a FACT and anyone can find those older thread(s) if they so choose. They are painful to read for anyone with any sense of decency, in my opinion, mostly due to the insensitive responses from some of the same insensitive cast of characters.

    But ok, let’s allow PA to devolve into a right wing forum for misogynists and white supremacists. Let’s not allow a real conversation about the very disturbing tweets of our Commander in Chief because the Trump Trolls simply won’t allow it. Let’s see how many more smart and sensitive members leave or stop participating at all. I have seen so much in the three years I’ve been here. And I miss so many thoughtful posters already.

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  3. Link to Post #342
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Sexism has long been part of the Reptilian agenda and goes much further back than the current left/right divide.
    And this is far from the first time when things began to become more balanced re gender equality, and then patriarchy reared its ugly head again to squash it.
    Whether one is in a female or a male body isn't as significant as how one has been programmed lifetime over lifetime.
    There are female misogynists just as there are males who champion the feminine principle.
    The whole argument devolves into childish reactionary bickering until we realize how we have ALL been controlled and subverted for eons by forces which are not human at all.
    Why can we not, as human beings, realize that we all have common enemies who profit from our division?
    That is the only way out of the mess this planet is currently in.
    Last edited by onawah; 1st July 2017 at 21:15.
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  5. Link to Post #343
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    Let’s not allow a real conversation about the very disturbing tweets of our Commander in Chief because the Trump Trolls simply won’t allow it.
    This is an untrue allegation.

    Also, you perhaps missed the point of my (admittedly a bit obtuse) post. I agree that the edges are sharp, that they do cut. I was not denying the substance of your protests (except for denying the implication that they aren't allowed here.) For most of us, most of the time, these issues are very real, very "cutting edge."

    All as intended by the elite bastards, all playing the flaws of the human psyche like a fine harp.

    Let us not too eagerly assist the bastards in their sowing of divisions between us.

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  7. Link to Post #344
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    The beat does mot go on Paul if every time we write something we are just f ck ng feminists or every time we give our genuine life experience we are discarded and certainly not heard. How often i witheld my opinion or even facts I knew because of a few "big mouth despising know it all about women" males, on this forum. If we were to write only half of what i read on women on this forum, by a handful of males only, you would have thrown me out

    Now, regarding Trump, when i saw him pushing the prime minister of -don't renember which country-in order to be in front ofthe pic, i found it so profoundly childish and bulky like! Such spontaneous unfiltered behaviors (because Trump has little self control when something relates to his ego) describe the real person more than any planned organised behavior. And it ain't pretty.

    E
    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    I agree much of the divisions between us are often manufactured, or at least heightened, highlighted, and encouraged by the elite/Rothschild Agenda -- all to keep us from uniting and looking at who is really pulling the strings and accumulating all the wealth/power/etc.

    But unfortunately, the divisions are very real, there IS much hatred and sexism and racism and greed and ugliness in this world, even without the string pulling of the Puppet Masters, and the “asinine tweets” are quite hurtful to those in some ways identifying with them, particularly when they are coming from the very person who is supposed to set the national tone. And particularly when his apologists suggest that the comments are justified, or that the reactions to them are somehow overblown, exaggerated by the “left,” etc….

    As a woman, I have experienced sexism and misogyny up close and personal. I have had jobs where women are blatantly paid less for the same work (I once had a male assistant who was paid more than I was). I have had to endure catcalls simply walking down a NYC street that were really scary and hostile sexual threats. Once, a while back, when picking up some take out at a local restaurant, I had a very drunk man sitting at his outside table scream out demanding that I show him my “T$%s”…. His friend looked slightly embarrassed but laughed along with him and did nothing. I was horrified and terrified. They were large men. I am thin, much smaller than they were, and had my three year old daughter with me. I had mom jeans and a mom shirt on, for anyone obnoxious enough to think I provoked such a request.

    I have never wanted a rich man to grope me by the privates and I find it horrifying that our President thinks that’s an ok thing to do. Instead, as a young woman trying to build a career, more than one man told me patronizingly that I was “too pretty to also be smart” and that I should “smile more” and that “women shouldn’t do this, that, or the other thing….” I have been asked to make coffee and copies more times than you can imagine in a roomful of “peers” -- and I have actually been barred from certain places in Texas because they were “Men Only” Good Old Boy Private Dining establishments, even though these were the places where the deals were getting done, so excluding all the women naturally meant the women were not getting in on the deals. I know I am not alone in many of these experiences.

    There’s so much more personal and more painful that I won’t discuss here. But Boo hoo, right? Point out Trump’s misogyny and the response is that the public is getting sick of these overblown calls of racism and sexism just because “we” don’t like what is said. Yes, I admit it. I don’t LIKE when the President of the United States suggests a woman is on her period simply because she’s asking questions he doesn’t like. I don’t LIKE when he suggests a woman who criticizes him is ugly, fat, a bimbo, bleeding from wherever, etc… Call me CRAZY, but I find those things offensive and misogynistic. And I’m WHITE, but guess what, if Trump started tweeting racial slurs I’d find that extremely offensive and horrifically RACIST too. Guess I’m just oversensitive to Bullies and Unhinged Misogynists, particularly when they hold the highest office in the nation.

    You would think, no matter one’s politics, that treating women in a degrading, overtly hostile and sexual way would not be tolerated or condoned. That it would be universally condemned. But one member asks what was “sexist” about Trump’s latest remarks and suggests men get plastic surgery too. Another suggests I’m being hyperbolic for pointing out that some members have left or took themselves out of active participation because of concerns over tolerating racist and xenophobic remarks on the forum– when this is a FACT and anyone can find those older thread(s) if they so choose. They are painful to read for anyone with any sense of decency, in my opinion, mostly due to the insensitive responses from some of the same insensitive cast of characters.

    But ok, let’s allow PA to devolve into a right wing forum for misogynists and white supremacists. Let’s not allow a real conversation about the very disturbing tweets of our Commander in Chief because the Trump Trolls simply won’t allow it. Let’s see how many more smart and sensitive members leave or stop participating at all. I have seen so much in the three years I’ve been here. And I miss so many thoughtful posters already.

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  9. Link to Post #345
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    I agree much of the divisions between us are often manufactured, or at least heightened, highlighted, and encouraged by the elite/Rothschild Agenda -- all to keep us from uniting and looking at who is really pulling the strings and accumulating all the wealth/power/etc.

    But unfortunately, the divisions are very real, there IS much hatred and sexism and racism and greed and ugliness in this world, even without the string pulling of the Puppet Masters, and the “asinine tweets” are quite hurtful to those in some ways identifying with them, particularly when they are coming from the very person who is supposed to set the national tone. And particularly when his apologists suggest that the comments are justified, or that the reactions to them are somehow overblown, exaggerated by the “left,” etc….

    As a woman, I have experienced sexism and misogyny up close and personal. I have had jobs where women are blatantly paid less for the same work (I once had a male assistant who was paid more than I was). I have had to endure catcalls simply walking down a NYC street that were really scary and hostile sexual threats. Once, a while back, when picking up some take out at a local restaurant, I had a very drunk man sitting at his outside table scream out demanding that I show him my “T$%s”…. His friend looked slightly embarrassed but laughed along with him and did nothing. I was horrified and terrified. They were large men. I am thin, much smaller than they were, and had my three year old daughter with me. I had mom jeans and a mom shirt on, for anyone obnoxious enough to think I provoked such a request.

    I have never wanted a rich man to grope me by the privates and I find it horrifying that our President thinks that’s an ok thing to do. Instead, as a young woman trying to build a career, more than one man told me patronizingly that I was “too pretty to also be smart” and that I should “smile more” and that “women shouldn’t do this, that, or the other thing….” I have been asked to make coffee and copies more times than you can imagine in a roomful of “peers” -- and I have actually been barred from certain places in Texas because they were “Men Only” Good Old Boy Private Dining establishments, even though these were the places where the deals were getting done, so excluding all the women naturally meant the women were not getting in on the deals. I know I am not alone in many of these experiences.

    There’s so much more personal and more painful that I won’t discuss here. But Boo hoo, right? Point out Trump’s misogyny and the response is that the public is getting sick of these overblown calls of racism and sexism just because “we” don’t like what is said. Yes, I admit it. I don’t LIKE when the President of the United States suggests a woman is on her period simply because she’s asking questions he doesn’t like. I don’t LIKE when he suggests a woman who criticizes him is ugly, fat, a bimbo, bleeding from wherever, etc… Call me CRAZY, but I find those things offensive and misogynistic. And I’m WHITE, but guess what, if Trump started tweeting racial slurs I’d find that extremely offensive and horrifically RACIST too. Guess I’m just oversensitive to Bullies and Unhinged Misogynists, particularly when they hold the highest office in the nation.

    You would think, no matter one’s politics, that treating women in a degrading, overtly hostile and sexual way would not be tolerated or condoned. That it would be universally condemned. But one member asks what was “sexist” about Trump’s latest remarks and suggests men get plastic surgery too. Another suggests I’m being hyperbolic for pointing out that some members have left or took themselves out of active participation because of concerns over tolerating racist and xenophobic remarks on the forum– when this is a FACT and anyone can find those older thread(s) if they so choose. They are painful to read for anyone with any sense of decency, in my opinion, mostly due to the insensitive responses from some of the same insensitive cast of characters.

    But ok, let’s allow PA to devolve into a right wing forum for misogynists and white supremacists. Let’s not allow a real conversation about the very disturbing tweets of our Commander in Chief because the Trump Trolls simply won’t allow it. Let’s see how many more smart and sensitive members leave or stop participating at all. I have seen so much in the three years I’ve been here. And I miss so many thoughtful posters already.
    I'm a white male and I absolutely agree with you. These Trump voters who call themselves "Christians" and give him a pass on a multitude of sins... well, they've lost what little respect I still had for them. I'm also embarrassed for all the Trump enthusiasts on this site. I don't see anything he's doing as anything other than the other side of a coin forged of sh*t. Money and power are the driving forces of either a Trump "businessman" and his cronies or the NWO/globalists. And it's becoming increasingly difficult to see a difference between the two of them. Power to the people. Not to the usual "a billion dollar personal fortune is not enough" assclowns.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    ... and the beat does go on ... as well intended people throw inflammatory rhetoric back and forth .

    We humans are being divided, so many ways, each side intensely certain that they are right in attacking some other side, each side firm in the view that "If you not with us, you're against us."

    I should hesitate to even suggest toning down the inflammatory rhetoric, because such a suggestion will be immediately taken as defending the crimes and words of the opposition and as censoring the cries for justice here.

    But I shall take that risk. Please tone down the inflammatory rhetoric against other well meaning members of this forum who are viewing this mess from a quite different perspective.

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  13. Link to Post #347
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Trump fans might want to visit this thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...16#post1163816
    and listen to Jim Marrs, who goes back to how the patterns we still see today started back in Sumer and he goes through the ages to the present to show how those patterns still remain and have only become a tighter noose for humanity over time.
    Last edited by onawah; 1st July 2017 at 21:41.
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  15. Link to Post #348
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    ... and the beat does go on ... as well intended people throw inflammatory rhetoric back and forth .

    We humans are being divided, so many ways, each side intensely certain that they are right in attacking some other side, each side firm in the view that "If you not with us, you're against us."

    I should hesitate to even suggest toning down the inflammatory rhetoric, because such a suggestion will be immediately taken as defending the crimes and words of the opposition and as censoring the cries for justice here.

    But I shall take that risk. Please tone down the inflammatory rhetoric against other well meaning members of this forum who are viewing this mess from a quite different perspective.
    Well, I may no longer belong here, then. There doesn't seem to be a lot of balance here on the topic of Trump. I read a lot of news from The Daily Kos to Breitbart. I'm open to "sides" but to me, there is a bit of willful blindness here when it comes to Trump. I see shenanagins happening on both sides of the political aisle. I will continue to point it out as I see it or you can boot me. I will refrain from anything that could appear as personal attack, though. That is fair.

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  17. Link to Post #349
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Wizard Of Ozark (here)
    There doesn't seem to be a lot of balance here on the topic of Trump. I read a lot of news from The Daily Kos to Breitbart. I'm open to "sides" but to me, there is a bit of willful blindness here when it comes to Trump. I see shenanagins happening on both sides of the political aisle.
    I'm quite sure that there are serious shenanagins happening on both sides of the political aisle, yes.

    I also presume that some members are blind on some topics, no doubt including myself. Whether it's willful or not is usually hard to know. We're each responsible for our own blind spots (though mass psyops seem to be doing a pretty good job of encouraging blindness.)

    Whether or not there's balance on any given topic is not something I put much value in. Perhaps if I were of the view that the truth usually lies somewhere near the middle, between the two sides of any particular issue, then I would seek balance, as usually being closer to the truth than either apparent extreme.

    However I am not of that view. Rather it would seem presumptuous for me to encourage "balance" between whatever are two sides of some controversy of the moment. It's my experience that usually both sides of any hot controversy are over blown, often intentionally so by some hidden hands of the elite. The truth - in layers - lies elsewhere.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    From the Balkans to the US, walls are going up, not down, according to demographer and The Fourth Turning author Neil Howe.

    Speaking to a packed crowd at Mauldin Economics’ Strategic Investment Conference in Orlando, Howe said we are reliving many of the same trends and changes of the 1930s.

    Faith in Democracy Is Fading
    “Worldwide, people are losing trust in institutions,” he said. “Trust in the military, small business, and police is still there. But trust in democracies, media, and politicians is dropping.”

    “When was the last time we saw these changes and the rise of right-wing populism?” he asked. The 1930s.”

    Howe’s statement is borne out of a June 2016 Gallup poll. When poll takers were asked how much confidence they had in institutions in American society, the results were troubling.

    Just 15% said they had a “great deal” of confidence in the US Supreme Court. Banks trailed behind at 11%, followed by the criminal justice system (9%), newspapers (8%), and big business (6%).

    Meanwhile, just 16% expressed a “great deal” of confidence in the presidency, with that number plummeting to 3% for Congress.

    What Does This Mean for the Future of the West?

    In his keynote, Howe shared his forecasting logic:
    “My method is to step back and realize one thing: There is something we know about the world in 20 years’ time. The people who live there will be all of us, 20 years older and playing a different role. I call this ‘looking along the generational diagonal.’”
    The critical thing to remember about the current crisis period is that what comes next will be an era in which there is a new order.

    According to the Strauss-Howe generational theory, as this new order takes root, individualism declines and institutions are strengthened.
    “History is seasonal, and winter is coming,” Howe has said. But after winter, comes spring.
    As the American Revolution was followed by calm, as the Civil War was followed by reconstruction and a gilded age, and as the Great Depression and World War II were followed by an age of peace and prosperity, so too will this crisis period be followed by a calm, stable era.

    It’s simply a matter of time.

    Source
    Last edited by turiya; 2nd July 2017 at 01:51.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    If I am to comment further, it seems the correct place to start is to start with what caught my attention back to this thread... with the following word popping up -

    sycophant

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sycophant

    Quote a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Please give me a break. When have we heard anyone, and I mean anyone, mention the plastic surgery or face lift of a man in a despising manner.
    I don't hear people mocking their plastic surgeries much in general, so all of this is absolutely ridiculous to me and reaching for anything. I don't understand why some people seem to require feeling victimized by every little thing. You aren't going to get anything special for it.

    I guess now if anyone makes fun of a plumber's butt crack hanging out then that's sexist against men. Why not? The logic is equally stupid. This is all so stupid that all I can do is facepalm.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    If I am to comment further, it seems the correct place to start is to start with what caught my attention back to this thread... with the following word popping up -

    sycophant

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sycophant

    Quote a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.
    Actually, Sam, I specifically would prefer if you NOT comment in this thread. There are at least three pro-Trump threads on this forum. Almost everyone is aware that you think having Trump at the helm is all of us "winning." You, Turiya, Voice, etc...all have plenty of space to rally behind your guy elsewhere. How about just not stalking and commenting in a thread that is specifically geared to those with opposing views on DJT? Clearly we aren't going to persuade one another....

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Please give me a break. When have we heard anyone, and I mean anyone, mention the plastic surgery or face lift of a man in a despising manner.
    I don't hear people mocking their plastic surgeries much in general, so all of this is absolutely ridiculous to me and reaching for anything. I don't understand why some people seem to require feeling victimized by every little thing. You aren't going to get anything special for it.

    I guess now if anyone makes fun of a plumber's butt crack hanging out then that's sexist against men. Why not? The logic is equally stupid. This is all so stupid that all I can do is facepalm.
    Voice, OMG, you are truly (wilfully?) clueless/hostile about what it feels like to have a President like DJT publicly comment on women's looks, privates, etc. as our #$%^ PRESIDENT. Not remotely the same as plumber jokes. Disgusted facepalm right back at you.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    If I am to comment further, it seems the correct place to start is to start with what caught my attention back to this thread... with the following word popping up -

    sycophant

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sycophant

    Quote a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.
    Actually, Sam, I specifically would prefer if you NOT comment in this thread. There are at least three pro-Trump threads on this forum. Almost everyone is aware that you think having Trump at the helm is all of us "winning." You, Turiya, Voice, etc...all have plenty of space to rally behind your guy elsewhere. How about just not stalking and commenting in a thread that is specifically geared to those with opposing views on DJT? Clearly we aren't going to persuade one another....
    Thanks for a straight forward request without the use of ad hominems as that is what played a roll in making my post and so I am glad to honor your request.

    I might also add that I thought the Mika tweet was exactly as you described. I just see more important matters at stake... far more important. But I am right with you as to that tweet as well as a few others I feel are senseless and needless to make.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    Voice, OMG, you are truly (wilfully?) clueless/hostile about what it feels like to have a President like DJT publicly comment on women's looks, privates, etc. as our #$%^ PRESIDENT. Not remotely the same as plumber jokes. Disgusted facepalm right back at you.
    If you and your very traditional American values were under endless obscene assault by religionless communists, for years upon years on end, and you finally got a president who actually fights for those exact same traditional American values, you wouldn't give a damn what he says about the fake communist media either.

    I think they all deserve prison to be quite frank, so getting "bullied" is getting off too easy. They have been calling for a coup for months on end. They need Guantanamo. And if people don't stop trying to initiate an illegal coup against our president then I hope he ratchets up the rhetoric even more until all of it is stomped out. Freedom of speech and protest is one thing but world networks openly plotting clear treason every single day is not acceptable. Media pundits are far from innocent; they are among the most guilty in my book.



    Just one recent example of the kind of obscenity Trump is the target of.




    So am I upset that he is dishing it back out?

    You already know the answer.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 2nd July 2017 at 04:42.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I think the problem is not so much lack of balance, it's that most members probably just don't care to get involved in these discussions, since the middle ground (much less any anti-Trump comments) in any Trump discussion is seldom allowed to just be and to develop without harassment.
    Not to say that it's all because of the Trump threads, but when politics becomes the main concern of a conspiracy theory forum, it's really kind of sad.
    Perhaps forum members just don't have enough interest in politics since it's been proven over and over again to be a game that has been controlled by the same players for time out of mind.
    Politics are never what they seem, and the only way to understand what's really going on behind the scenes is to drill much deeper than what the political pundits on either side of the polarity are saying.
    It's short-sighted and arrogant for anyone to think they are so all-seeing, so certain, so CLEAR about what's really going on that they feel justified in insulting and denigrating those who do not agree or are simply waiting for something conclusive to materialize before deciding if there is even a stance worth taking.
    But so many politicians are arrogant and oblivious to the truth, and so it's easy to see why those who elevate them to heroic status would be arrogant and rather oblivious as well.
    Personally, I have no heroes who are politicians; in the realm of politics, it's seldom anything but a question of the lesser evil.
    It's hard to get passionate about that, once you understand the reality.
    Last edited by onawah; 2nd July 2017 at 18:41.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I think that according to forum rules, it would be Autumn's call as to what shape she would like to see this thread take as she is the one who started it, and hopefully she will make her wishes known.
    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Please give me a break. When have we heard anyone, and I mean anyone, mention the plastic surgery or face lift of a man in a despising manner.
    I don't hear people mocking their plastic surgeries much in general, so all of this is absolutely ridiculous to me and reaching for anything. I don't understand why some people seem to require feeling victimized by every little thing. You aren't going to get anything special for it.

    I guess now if anyone makes fun of a plumber's butt crack hanging out then that's sexist against men. Why not? The logic is equally stupid. This is all so stupid that all I can do is facepalm.
    Voice, OMG, you are truly (wilfully?) clueless/hostile about what it feels like to have a President like DJT publicly comment on women's looks, privates, etc. as our #$%^ PRESIDENT. Not remotely the same as plumber jokes. Disgusted facepalm right back at you.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    How CNN boss Jeff Zucker helped elect a US president and a governor of California
    7/1/167 by Jon Rappoport
    https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2...of-california/
    I posted this here as well: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1163805
    But perhaps it belongs here more. I would just add that although Zucker certainly may have had a hand in Trump's success and in helping to commercialize US elections, ironically, it seems to me it was more Julian Assange and Wikileaks who gave Trump the winning hand, in part by exposing the dishonesty of the MSM.
    Quote One thing you have to understand about Mr. Zucker. What he does, he does for show. For ratings. If he could get away with claiming Trump met with Putin on the dark side of the moon to concoct a way to beat Hillary Clinton, he would run with it. If he could get away with claiming Arnold Schwarzenegger was the love child of Joseph Stalin and Greta Garbo, he would lead the evening newscast with it. He keeps selling the CNN Trump-Russia “investigation” because he’s (barely) getting away with it and he thinks it’ll keep drawing an audience.

    In April, CNN boss Jeff Zucker told the New York Times, “The idea that politics is sport is undeniable, and we understood that and approached it that way.” The “it” was certainly the 2016 presidential campaign.

    Zucker always has understood politics in this corrupt way—and in the process, he helped elect a US president and a California governor.

    Who is Trump’s most consistent media enemy now? CNN is right up there.

    But Jeff Zucker, CNN’s boss, was the man who launched The Apprentice, starring Donald Trump, at NBC, in 2004.

    In other words, Zucker happened to play a major role in electing Donald Trump. There is no getting around it.

    Washington Post, October 2, 2016: “Looking for someone specific to hold responsible for the improbable rise of Donald Trump?”

    “Although there are many options, you could do worse than to take a hard look at Jeff Zucker, president of CNN Worldwide.”

    “It was Zucker, after all, who as the new head of NBC Entertainment gave Trump his start in reality TV with ‘The Apprentice’ and then milked the real estate developer’s uncanny knack for success for all it was worth in ratings and profits.”

    “And it succeeded wildly — boosting the network’s ratings, as well as Zucker’s [and Trump’s] meteoric career. In turn, under Zucker, the show gave rise to ‘Celebrity Apprentice,’ another Trump extravaganza. And, in turn, Zucker became the head of NBC overall.”

    “The show [The Apprentice] was built as a virtually nonstop advertisement for the Trump empire and lifestyle,” according to the book ‘Trump Revealed,’ by Washington Post journalists Marc Fisher and Michael Kranish.”

    “The executive [Jeff Zucker] rode the Trump steed hard. When the reality-TV star was preparing to marry Melania Knauss in 2005, Zucker wanted to broadcast the wedding live. (Trump, uncharacteristically, declined.)”

    “But make no mistake: There would be no Trump-the-politician without Trump-the-TV-star. One begot the other.”

    POLITICS IS TELEVISION, AND TELEVISION IS POLITICS.

    If you’re looking for a person who embodies that fake version of reality most purely, you need look no further than Jeff Zucker.

    Despite his network’s present hatred of Trump, Zucker would give Trump his own show right now if he wanted one.

    For ratings and ad revenues.

    Let’s go back in time and consider another event, one which I’ve analyzed in great detail. It took place on NBC in 2003, when Zucker was the head of the network’s entertainment division. Keep in mind that The Tonight Show, with Jeno Leno, was a prime piece of the entertainment division then. What Leno pulled off in 2003 had to have the OK from Zucker, because it was a highly unusual move, a distinctly unethical move.

    What happened when an actor wanted to launch a political career and become a governor? The whole news division of a major network surrendered itself, for one ratings-busting night, to a talk show.

    This is how Arnold Schwarzenegger won the California governor’s race. It all came down to his famous appearance on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, where he announced that he was going to run.

    I obtained a copy of show, watched it many times, transcribed the dialogue, and noted the audience reactions.

    Breaking down the segments revealed what happens when news and entertainment and PR and political advocacy all blur together in a single wave.

    The show had been hyped as the moment when Arnold would announce whether he was going to run in the recall election against California Governor Gray Davis.

    The public anticipation was sky-high. No one seemed concerned that NBC was turning over its news division, for one night, to its entertainment division. Jeff Zucker, head of NBC entertainment, was all in.

    Turning over network news to network entertainment was precisely the subject of the best movie ever made about television, Paddy Chayefsky’s Network. That didn’t register with the national media.

    If Arnold decided to run for governor, he wouldn’t be announcing it at a stale press conference at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel, after a brief introduction from The Snoozer, LA Mayor Richard Riordan. No, Arnold would obtain a rocket boost from Jay Leno.

    Keep in mind that talk shows warm up and prep their studio audiences to act and respond with amphetamine-like enthusiasm.

    And then that audience transmits its glow and howling racket to the wider television audience, thereby blowing an artificially enhanced event across the landscape.

    On the night of August 6, 2003, Tonight Show host Jay Leno devoted two six-minute segments to The Arnold.

    Of course, it was more than an interview. Jay had been touting this night as the occasion for a key revelation in the comic play called The California Recall Election.

    Arnold would say yes or Arnold would say no. He would run for governor or he would decline.

    Bigger than conventional news, Arnold strode out on to Jay’s stage. A Tonight Show camera picked him up from a grossly complimentary low angle, making him appear even larger and more physically imposing than he is. Jay was positioned standing behind him, applauding, lending an affirmative gloss to the entrance. Already, it looked and felt political.

    This was not a beginning; the impression was of something already in motion, a train to catch up with.

    As the man of the hour sat down next to Jay, he commented that there was a big audience in the house (“Can you believe all these people here?”) and, capping his first gambit, he stated that every one of them was running for governor of California. Ha-ha. (At one point, there were 135 gubernatorial candidates.)

    Quickly, Jay gets down to business. The business of making the evening extra-special: “Now, I don’t think we’ve ever had this much press at The Tonight Show for any—[let’s look at] our press room—normally [the press] sit in the audience.”

    Cut to a stark room, shot from above. About 40 reporters doing almost nothing at tables. Obviously, the room was set up for this event.

    Jay cracks a couple of jokes about the press gaggle, lowers his voice and turns his full attention to Arnold: “…it’s been weeks…and people going back and forth…taken you awhile, and you said you would come here tonight and tell us your decision. So what is your decision?”

    Arnold replies, “Well, Jay, after thinking for a long time, my decision is…”

    The sound cuts off, and the TV screen displays an old PLEASE STAND BY notice. Thick white letters against a background of an ancient station test pattern from the 1950s. A mechanical tone plays for several seconds.

    The audience laughs. There is applause, too.

    Cut back to Jay and Arnold. Arnold says, “That’s why I decided that way.” Big audience laughter.

    Jay, going along—as if Arnold had spilled the beans during a momentary technical malfunction—shouts, “Right, good, right! I tell you I am shocked! I can’t believe it! I can’t believe it!”

    Jay then starts out from the bottom again. “[Whether you’re going to run has been] in my monologue…it’s been good for, like, a thousand jokes over the last couple of weeks…”

    Once more, he gently poses the question. “What are you going to do?” It’s still too early for an answer, and Jay knows it.

    Arnold wants another false start. He’s planned it.

    “Well, my decision obviously is a very difficult decision to make, you know…it was the [most] difficult decision that I’ve made in my entire life, except the one in 1978 when I decided to get a bikini wax.”

    Laughter, applause, whistles.

    The studio audience warms to the fact that Arnold glimpses an absurdity about the whole proceeding.

    “He’s our Arnie, laughing the way we laugh. Hell, all we’ve got are laughs in this life, and our boy isn’t going to go stuffed-shirt on us.”

    Arnold then gives his rehearsed political speech.

    He reflects that California was a grand land of opportunity when he arrived in 1968. It was the greatest state in the greatest nation.

    However, now the atmosphere in California is “disastrous,” he says. There is a “disconnect” (thank you, pop psych 101) between the people and the politicians.

    “The politicians are fiddling, fumbling, and failing.”

    Very big applause follows. The audience is doing its job.

    Close by, off camera, we hear Jay thumping his own personal hand claps. The host is pumping his studio crowd and giving his seal of approval to a remark whose veracity is supposed to be tested by the recall election itself.

    And there is a phalanx of teen-age girls screaming at a very high pitch in the studio. They’re adding a major element of hysterical enthusiasm. Where did they come from? Are they a legitimate Arnold demographic? Were they pulled out of a Valley mall to paper the crowd? Do they migrate from talk show to talk show? From this point forward, they’ll play a huge role in every audience outburst.

    Arnold gathers steam. He tells one and all that the people of California are doing their job.

    They’re working hard.

    Paying their taxes.

    Raising their families.

    But the politicians are not doing their job.

    Now he executes a blend around the far turn: “And the man that is failing the people more than anyone is [Governor] Gray Davis!”

    The crowd goes wild. The girls scream as if they’re at a kiddie rock concert in the magic presence of four sixteen-year-old pretty boys. It’s eerie.

    And now the audience is suddenly on edge.

    They can handle the juice. The longed-for result.

    Arnold senses it.

    He lets the audience-hysteria roller coaster die down and then, taking it up to heaven, announces that, he, Arnold is…

    Yes…

    GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA.

    Boom. Bang. Pow. Zow.

    The studio audience cracks the ceiling. Wilder than wild. The girls are shrieking walls of sound way above high C. Undoubtedly, the show is flashing applause signs.

    Jay shakes his head and grins like a pro hypster who’s just witnessed a very, very good variation on bait and switch. As if Arnold was supposed to say no, but now he’s saying yes.

    The Tonight Show band lays down some heavy chords.

    Jay shouts, “There you go! There you go! That woke ‘em up! That woke ‘em up!” We cut to the press room, and sure enough, the reporters are now on phones, typing at their keyboards. The story is live and good to go. A global event is underway.

    Amid the roar and the music, Jay, smiling broadly and wisely, shakes his finger at Arnold and says to him, “You know something?”

    It seems Jay’s about to utter, “That’s the best damn switcheroo I ever saw!” But he doesn’t do it. Instead, as the noise abates, he says it’s a good time to go to a break.

    The band plows into a funk riff, under the applause, and the show cuts to commercial.

    The sea has parted. The consecration has been performed.

    The ax felled the tree in the forest, and everyone heard it.

    Marshall McLuhan rolled over in his grave, sat up, grinned, lit a cigar, and sipped a little brandy.

    After the commercials, in the next six-minute segment, Jay and Arnold attain a few more highs of audience madness.

    High one: Arnold mentions that 1.6 million Californians have signed the recall petition and are saying, “We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!” Wowee.

    No one notices or remembers this line was made massively famous in Network, the bitter satire on news as entertainment.

    Is it remotely possible Arnold recalls the 1976 Paddy Chayefsky film and its newsman, Howard Beale, who survives a ratings dive by delivering a delirious populist message on air, and becomes, for a short time, the most revered man in America?

    Is it possible Arnold knows the TV network portrayed in the film gave its news division to its entertainment division—exactly what’s transpiring right there, for the moment, on The Tonight Show?

    High two: Arnold clarifies his message to all politicians everywhere. “Do your job for the people and do it well, or otherwise you’re out. Hasta la vista, baby!” Zowee.

    High three: After telling the crowd they all know Gray Davis can run a dirty campaign “better than anyone”—and that Davis has been selling off pieces of California to special interests—Arnold says with conviction and confidence, “I do not have to bow to any special interests; I have plenty of money; no one can pay me off; trust me, no one.” Audience hysteria. They love that he’s rich.

    High four: Arnold says of Davis, “Everyone knows this man has to go!” Huge roar.

    High five: Arnold plays a final pun card. “I will pump up Sacramento!” Yet another roar.

    The band takes it out with more funk. Jay stands up and goes over and hugs Arnold, in profile, near his desk, and follows him closely toward an exit at stage left. Jay starts to whisper something in Arnold’s ear, but pulls back and smiles and, still on camera, applauds Arnold along with the audience.

    It’s show biz in a bottle. Jay, Arnold, the crowd, the band, bouncing off one another and yielding the effect of absolute (synthetic) thrill.

    The Tonight Show provided the moment for a globally famous actor to decide to run for office in the same state where the show originates. In the entertainment capital of the world. In front of the clear prime-cut admiration of the host.

    And the studio audience, that specialized creature from whose maw instant credibility can be coaxed and birthed in seconds—was very, very ready to go. All along.

    Imagine an advance man pre-selling this kind of PR stunt:

    “I know a guy who can introduce your message to the softest, wildest, water-cooler crowd this side of paradise.”

    “Oh yeah? How big a crowd?”

    “Only a thousand or two. But they’re instantly hooked up to, say, ten million people in the target area. It’s as infectious as Ebola.”

    “Come on.”

    “And that’s not all. I’ve got a host for that softest, wildest audience, and he has the whole world in the palm of his hand. When he exposes your message—for the first time anywhere—and when his audience goes nuts with glee, nothing will stand in your way. Your opponents will go down like bowling pins.”

    “Too good to be true.”

    “Wrong. And let me point out what I’m saving you from. If you tried to launch your message at a shopping center or a press club or a hotel ballroom or construction site or on a movie-studio sound stage, you could get laughed right out of town. Really. Because, let’s face it, you do have a pretty vapid message when you boil it down. You need a unique venue, where the joke and the camp and the craziness are all folded into the event itself, and the shock and surprise and hoopla are integrated. You need an audience that celebrates bad and good jokes as all good, and the host has the ability to marry up every shred of this bizarre happening and take his crowd to orgasm.”

    “And the contagion factor?”

    “The audience in the television studio and the viewing audience at home are One. My boy, what stuns and delights the former incorporates itself into the living cells of the latter. The home audience is terrified of being left out. The host and his in-studio crowd give instant universal legitimacy to the moment. Believe me, it’s irresistible.”

    “Like that McLuhan thing. The audience becomes the actor.”

    “Precisely.”

    That is how it happened. That is how Arnold Schwarzenegger obtained his billion-dollar ad on Jay Leno, on August 6, 2003, and that was when he won the recall election. There was no counter-strategy for it.

    Governor Gray Davis was left out in the cold.

    The announcement of Arnold’s candidacy was the end of the election.

    In the aftermath, media pundits did not punch up this piece of mind control with any serious heat; nor did they immediately seek a heavy investigation of NBC’s ethics in allowing the Leno-Arnold event to take place.

    The Tonight Show was a perfect killing ground: Arnold, the earnest and powerful and Germanically jolly and occasionally self-deprecating soul, aware of the comic-book component of his success; Jay, the jokester, who can work as a homer and straight man at the drop of a hat; and Jay’s audience, willingly propelled into the late-night nexus of “we’ll laugh so hard at any old damn thing we’ll make a cosmic celebration out of it.”

    Something out of nothing.

    GE (then the owner of NBC): “We bring good things to life.”

    An election campaign message was passed, hand to hand, mind to mind, adrenal gland to adrenal gland, from a concocted, groomed, cultivated, prepackaged television studio audience to every voter-district in California, and out to the whole world.

    When people show up in the studio to see Leno in person, they soon understand the game. They’re not just there as happy onlookers. They’re drawn into the process. They’re offered a trade-off.

    If they become active shills for the show right there in the studio, they’ll become part of the story. They’ll attain new status. Their laughs and squeals and shrieks and rebound guffaws, their revved-up salvational applause, at those moments when a guest segment or a joke is falling flat, will provide key segue and filler and affirmation and speed candy for the larger audience at home. It’s a group collaboration.

    Who cares—except when a fading movie action hero suddenly says he’s going to take over the reins of California?

    In the television studio, and in millions of homes, the audience roared and helped Arnold go for his coronation. They experienced a reasonable facsimile of emotional torque and busted a move that showered sparks around Arnold’s head and pushed him through a porthole into an ozone that just might have been the closest thing they’d ever find to immortality.

    On October 10, three days after Arnold scored number one in the recall vote count, The NY Times ran a piece by Bill Carter headlined, “NBC Supports the Politically Partisan Leno.”

    But Carter’s story was merely about Jay, on the night of October 7, taking the stage in Los Angeles to introduce Arnold as the recall election winner.

    THIS was the issue? This was the barrier that Leno had crossed? Carter mentioned nothing about those 12 minutes on August 6th, on The Tonight Show, when Arnold announced he was running and thereby sewed up the election.

    Jeff Zucker, then the head of entertainment at NBC (NOW THE BOSS AT CNN), told Carter he was aware Jay was going to introduce Arnold at the victory celebration. “I did not and do not have a problem with it,” he said.

    Zucker noted that Jay was a private citizen with all the accruing rights of same.

    Not a word from Zucker either, about the propriety of Leno hosting Arnold’s campaign launch on August 6, on The Tonight Show.

    The Studio Audience, on the night of August 6, 2003, fingered and chose and elected a governor of California.

    Jay Leno has gone on to thousands of other jokes.

    But he’ll never forget that one.

    And neither will Zucker.

    He helped elect Arnold. And he made Trump a global star of the first magnitude on The Apprentice, and thereby helped him win the presidency.

    If you like interesting coincidences, both the Leno Moment and launch of The Apprentice happened in 2004. And when Donald Trump left The Apprentice in 2015, who took over as the host?

    Arnold Schwarzenegger, of course.
    Last edited by onawah; 2nd July 2017 at 18:42.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)
    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    If I am to comment further, it seems the correct place to start is to start with what caught my attention back to this thread... with the following word popping up -

    sycophant

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sycophant

    Quote a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.
    Actually, Sam, I specifically would prefer if you NOT comment in this thread. There are at least three pro-Trump threads on this forum. Almost everyone is aware that you think having Trump at the helm is all of us "winning." You, Turiya, Voice, etc...all have plenty of space to rally behind your guy elsewhere. How about just not stalking and commenting in a thread that is specifically geared to those with opposing views on DJT? Clearly we aren't going to persuade one another....
    Thanks for a straight forward request without the use of ad hominems as that is what played a roll in making my post and so I am glad to honor your request.

    I might also add that I thought the Mika tweet was exactly as you described. I just see more important matters at stake... far more important. But I am right with you as to that tweet as well as a few others I feel are senseless and needless to make.
    Thanks, Sam. I appreciate your civilized response.

    I think this "conversation" has run its course. The viewpoint divide appears too great and the emotions run high for me on this one.

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