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Thread: Trump is NOT the answer

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Watch the documentary, "Altright" on Netflix. Even discounting for the bias of the filmmaker, it is still a huge eye opener. I didn't know too much about the whole Charlotteville fiasco until I watched the film. And it certainly doesn't portray what you would call, the Left, in a pleasant light either.
    I will watch the Netflix documentary. Here is another firsthand account by a right-wing reporter who was there covering the event in real time. According to her reports of the events (and even accounting for her political bias) the majority of the violence was waged from the left. So I would say this sort of dynamic is similar to road rage. You have two angry groups going head-to-head. When you have crazy and rabid leftists hurling feces and tear gas and urine at crazy alt-right White Nationalists (one of whom was unstable, as in the case of the man who drove his car into the crowd), you are describing a powder keg.


    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    But the neo-fascist movements attract people who want to KILL. There are many among them who are simply disenfranchised and angry, but there is a contingent among that crowd who are also paranoid and that begets acts of terrorism.
    Agreed. But are you implying your insights here only apply to the Unite the Right coalition? If so, you are vastly underestimating Antifa (and some factions of Black Lives Matter and Standing up for Racial Injustice). They are exactly the same type of fascist groups, but organized on the left, angry and disenfranchised, and in many cases, wanting to kill... This is human nature and tribalism 101; it is not unique to the bigoted alt-right with backward views...

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    It is up to the leader of the free world to differentiate fascists and racists in the alt right, who use coded lingo, like "patriots" etc... with those who are stridently opposed
    The problem is--and I will be blunt--the media did not characterize these events honestly or accurately. Let's take this to the next step. Trump compensates for media dishonesty and agenda-ridden coverage in his rhetoric (mostly because they use their dishonesty against him), which is suddenly spun by the media as if he is "defending" a horrible tragedy and atrocity and condoning alt-right fascists. I assume your take comes from a similar perspective. And yes, I understand how people have come to these kind of conclusions, but in my opinion, after a more objective and thorough analysis of the facts, I think the majority of people--and especially those who maintain a left-leaning bias, have a contrived understanding of the Charlotteville protests.

    Specifically, people maintain their understanding of events through the media--even when they take media biases with a grain of salt. So people are very easily manipulated to believe anything the media wants them to believe. The President did condemn the radical right, as Deux pointed out above; what exactly could he have done differently, especially when the media takes his words to create whatever reality they want to create anyway? When Trump "corrected" the media coverage of the event (in this case, the media fraudulence and malpractice), this was spun as if he was condoning alt-right fascists. And of course this type of response is pure gold to the media; they run with his statements further to wrap them around his neck to hang him by.

    I will not condone the opinions or beliefs of the fanatic groups on the right that showed up to march in Charlottesville, but I will say they filed for a permit to protest. I will also submit, with a fair degree of certainty, were they not violently confronted (had they been ignored or at the very least peacefully protested) nothing would have come of these protests. We would all view the White Supremacists as the fools they are. The violence occurred because they were provoked and confronted violently with tear gas, chemical balloons, clubs, and weapons. Moreover, the anti-protestors did not have a permit to protest; they simply descended upon the march and started a street brawl with a gang of alt-right radicals, for lack of a better description. What would you expect might happen given this dynamic?

    Here are some questions to ask:

    Should we assign any blame on these leftist groups? Even if we are tempted to give Antifa et. al the moral high ground and exonerate them of any blame, should we ignore their role in this tragedy altogether, as the media did? Should we instead spin the tragedy simply as the result of an angry group of White Nationalists who drove a car through a crowd of peaceful protestors and killed a woman?

    These are the main problems I have when I dissect these issues. The whole thing just reeks of psyop....
    Last edited by T Smith; 30th July 2019 at 14:28.

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  3. Link to Post #942
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Not supporting anti-fa. Please watch the flick and get back to me through pm or here. Thanks

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    France Avalon Member Deux Corbeaux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    French NETFLIX doesn't have the documentary, but I found it on YouTube.

    https://youtu.be/HCse43Y1CBE

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Not supporting anti-fa. Please watch the flick and get back to me through pm or here. Thanks
    Hello AutumnW,

    The documentary was interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing. However, it seemed more like a documentary on Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and Daryle Jenkins, rather than a film on the broader "Alt-right" and the broader radical left response. I assume this is because these men are leaders of their respective movements. But the documentary does not touch upon the scope (or lack thereof) of their followings. Had it delved into that topic critically and with a little more gravitas I would have sat up and took more notice, probably with the same alarm and concern you had. In that sense I was a little disappointed and would point out a critical distinction between the radical ideologies of three men and the broader movements they attract.

    For those who don't know who these men are, Richard Spencer coined the term "alt right" and is the President of the National Policy Institute, a White Supremacist think tank that helped organize the August 12 Charlotteville Unite the Right rally; I would describe Jared Taylor as a throwback "southern gentleman" who publishes a White Supremacist website, and Daryle Jenkins as the affable (and charismatic) public face of Antifa. One thing that surprised me and caught me off guard is none of these men seemed particularly angry or hateful. They all seemed cheerful and affable and charming, despite their odious ideals.

    A few more comments/observations:

    I applaud the filmmaker for defining the Alt-Right at the beginning of the film. This is critically important if we are to have any meaningful discussion about Charlottesville and the Alt-Right movement in general. But yes, as defined in the documentary, we are in full agreement the alt-right is disturbing and alarming. However, I would point out the MSM, and particularly the left-leaning agitprop sect of it (which is mostly all of it), has cast much too wide an umbrella above the Alt-Right movement in my view. It casts the ideologies explored in this film not only upon the President of the United States and the majority of his followers (Hillary Clinton's infamous "basket of deplorables" comment comes to mind) but also upon virtually everyone left of center on the political spectrum. This is a common Alinsky tactic (see rule 13), where engaging in thoughtful discourse on ideas is countered with sensational ad hominem typecasting and spurious character assassinations on anyone who disagrees. One can accomplish this quite effectively by first establishing what is deplorable, e.g. the alt-right (as defined in the documentary) and then casting the aspersion wide and far upon those who have nothing whatsoever to do with the charge.

    To be specific, the Alt-Right, according to the definition in the film, embraces the following tenets: Pro-white, Anti-Semitic, Socially Conservative, Segregation of Races, and Authoritarianism. My main criticism with the documentary, then, isn't a political dispute with the expose of their odious, hateful, and dangerous ideas, as it is the documentary's implication that this ideology applies to a much broader political spectrum and specifically to the constituency responsible for electing Donald Trump. In other words, millions and millions of people. This idea is alluded to and implied throughout the film with no supporting evidence whatsoever. It is simply presented as given.

    For example, Alt-Right ideology, as defined above, is interchanged with phrases like "in the Age of Trump" and with "Trump Supporters" and "How Trump Got Elected" throughout the film. I will say these assertions are not only misleading, but patently false. If the filmmaker disagrees with me, by all means, make the argument and support the claims with facts. I would like to understand the connection if I have overlooked something so important.

    Specifically, how is any of this connected in any way to Donald Trump and his followers? How is his platform pro-white (and by implication, anti-ethnic)? Specifically? How is he Anti-Semitic? Specifically? How is he segregationist? Specifically? How is he authoritarian, exactly (aside from the empty charges leveled?). Have I really overlooked something so egregious?

    At the end of the day, I simply have to conclude the charge that Donald Trump and so-called Trump Supporters being Alt-Right is largely contrived. Saying it is so, over and over, doesn't do much to persuade me. Call it a weakness; I need to see a critical connection. This, of course, has little to do with the documentary, aside from the subliminal suggestions throughout the film interchanging the political climate in America today on the right with the Alt-Right in the film.

    But let's put this in its proper perspective. The August 12 rally that turned violent and resulted in three deaths was an alt-right rally of 400 people, among thousands. Yes White Supremacists exist. Yes they organize. Yes they attract the disenchanted. So do obscure cults you've never even heard of. No reasoning person would dispute this, and the film does an outstanding job documenting this. But the question is, what exactly are they documenting? A movement of millions of people? Or a small group of misguided radicals that are relatively insignificant to the broader political discourse? This latter question is so counter an idea to the MSM narrative one might be appalled by the mere suggestion of it. We hear over, and over, and over again that we are surrounded and being over-taken by White Supremacists, and DJT is encouraging this. We hear this so much so we simply absorb it as given. But let's examine. Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor were able to successfully fill a Marriott conference room spouting their ideals; the National Policy Institute raised a whopping $50,000.00 last year, and American Renaissance (Jared Taylor's publication) had 30k twitter followers before he was banned for violating Twitter's hate speech rules. To put that in perspective, the Stoic Emperor, an anonymous tweeter who delivers short meditations daily in the vein of Saturday Night Live's Stuart Smalley, has 30k followers. The Kashi Ashram, an obscure religious cult with a Judeo-Christian foundation, claims to touch the lives of 300k members. Have you ever heard of them? Know somebody involved with them? If not, I would point out they are easily ten times larger in scope than the alt-right cult the filmmakers explored in this film.

    In short, the alt-right, as defined in bold above, is mostly but another Alinsky tactic (see rule 9) and is about as significant as any other obscure cult you've never heard of.

    Another example of very subtle propaganda the filmmaker exploited was the idea the militia in the rally supported the Neo-Nazis. This is also not true. According to the independent report, the militia was present at the rally to keep the peace on both sides of the dispute, yet the subtle implication in the film depicts a militarized neo-nazi brigade. Chilling (and alarming) if one does not have access to the facts.

    I don't want to downplay the Alt-Right or condone their ideas. As always, my criticism isn't with the ideas or tools social engineers employ to manipulate public opinion to exploit fear and to distort reality for political expediency. My dispute is with the social engineers themselves and their tactics. The media is fully responsible for this. After the 1975 blockbuster film Jaws, nearly half the population, 43%, reported a phobia of swimming (some won't step in as little as four feet of water) even though the odds of a shark attack are roughly 1 to 4,000,000. Let's think about that, and how powerful propaganda is.

    Funny how that 43% is roughly the same amount of people who can swing elections and drive the march of hidden agendas.
    Last edited by T Smith; 31st July 2019 at 19:32.

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