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Thread: Trump is NOT the answer

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    All words are lies...
    FIrst thing that comes to mind for me is, then why say anything at all?

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    A proper position to take with Trump is to 'Wait & See'.
    Agreed.

    I have my suspicions of course, but really who knows what is coming around the bend? Our fellow number crunching PA member here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...h-Our-Timeline... has noted that even more scientifically based prognostications are not lending us much reliability as of late.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Love Catherine Austin Fitts, her take on corruption in govt, narco dollars, etc...I am not convinced that a vote for Trump represents a step towards a multi-polar world, though, as she suggests. Sometimes when really bright people are wrong, they aren't just a little wrong, they are 180 degrees off. That being said, I do HOPE she is right and that I am missing something.

    CAF is a brilliant numbers person and has solid 'big picture' thinking based on those numbers AND, most critically, her own traumatic experiences with the powers that be. What I think she is missing, (and this was manifested by her strong endorsement of Mike Ruppert) is an ability to suss out conmen.

    Ruppert developed a huge following, said ALOT of the right things, but ultimately proved to be a narcissist, more concerned with his image than the actual truth. Instead of helping the 911 Truth movement, he damaged it.

    Her basic premise is a miscalculation--that on some level a decision has been made to sacrifice the empire for the sake of the nation. These powers have decided, unlike the current elites, that the nation shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of the empire.

    I hope she is right and if she is I will send Turiya a gift card for a double latte. If I am correct, I will send him a gift card for a flak jacket!
    Last edited by AutumnW; 11th December 2016 at 20:37.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Voting against the outward, perceived manipulation of the Elite and the media was definitely a good thing. I'm glad people are waking up in that respect.

    However, I think that being on forums like this gives a skewed sense of how the majority voted. Many didn't vote to stop the Elite, they voted for "MURICA, THROW OUT MEXICANS!"

    I have no delusions whatsoever about what kind of person Trump is. While I believe he is less likely to cause WWIII than Hillary, he is by no means a good person, and I suspect the next couple years will be some trying times.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by lucidity (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    Then, who or what IS the answer?
    It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.
    This is ridiculous... this is worse than blaming the victim.
    This is the victim blaming the victim.... strewth!

    _we_ are not responsible for _THEIR_ corruption...
    _we_ are not responsible for their war crimes, their looting of public and corporate wealth,
    _we_ are not responsible for their paedophilia, or their satanic sacrifices of children and adults.

    Since when is that _our_ fault?
    Thank you for this post, lucidity - I meant to reply to that myself, and got lost in the sauce with several other posts I was making!

    Agreed that the blame and shame campaign is used to divide and conquer us, to control us and keep us in disempowering positions of self loathing.

    It used to irk me when staunch environmentalists I knew looked down upon average citizens for driving their cars around, among many other things. I just felt like geez can you blame them for doing what they need to do to get to and from work, transport their children to and fro, etc? It is not like we are given many viable options. And yes, it is possible in some instances to eschew automobiles completely, but good luck living in the country and going shopping with your kids on a saturday without one. And this too is coming from a position of privilege, since of course there are many who live without cars because they cannot afford them. I was one of those people for a number of years, and let me tell you, when I got a car it felt like an amazing freedom had been bestowed upon me (albeit with the insurance, registration, licensing, and repair shop gouging strings attached)

    Unless we are able to completely check out of the system altogether (no money, no consumer goods, no nothing from the "outside world"), we end up leading compromised lives just to survive. Like when children are forced into drug trafficking, they do it for their survival. Is it right to blame them for their fate?

    It is possible for people to make choices that go against the status quo, but they are difficult choices to make that result in a much more challenging existence.

    These choices are usually more accessible to those who come from positions of relative comfort and privilege - making the divide and conquer blame and shame campaign even more ironic. The fact that children of rich families can go around expounding on the moral failings of those just trying to scrape by is so insidious in that it preys upon and utilizes the denouncers' desires for positive change and progress to oppress.

    The flip side of this is that people who are so down and out and destitute that they literally have got nothing left to lose are also in a primed position to go against business as usual. Vagrants, for instance. But for anybody with a family, the decision to allow oneself to get to that point seems an impossible one to make. I used to fantasize about joining a traveling kitchen with the rainbow family. But the road life is hard and many of these people are alcoholics and drug addicts (of course so are most other people). Their diets are also not the greatest, and healthcare is limited. I am certain children have been lost to the system this way as well - when CPS somehow gets involved (maybe a child has a bad accident and needs to be taken to an emergency room) and the parents are deemed incapable of properly raising their children.

    In that regard it's like we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as parents. If we choose non conformity in any ways, in the hopes that at least in part we can shield our children from our own compromised existences, we are flirting with the possibility that we could be declared incompetent as parents and have our children taken away from us (hello pizzagate). On the other hand, choosing conformity means we are required to offer our children up to the system, while also endeavoring to protect them and keep them safe in our care. Talk about cognitive dissonance!!!!

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    what will be interesting is whether or not people will actually revolt,,or boil over
    What is mind bending to me is the thought that much of this revolting could lead to a scenario that dovetails quite nicely with NWO depopulation agendas.

    And then there is the general trend (as I have personally noted and observed) amongst people who see how hopelessly effed the system is hoping and praying for some kind of major event to shake things up.

    Is it possible that the NWO and the dissidents are actually hoping for the same thing?

    Personally, I see that the ending of tyranny and oppression are essential, but I see the only real way of accomplishing this entails a collective shift in consciousness (as opposed to a solar flare, economic collapse, nuclear bomb explosion...) My hypothetical consciousness shift, which touches everyone, leads to effortless, natural change for the better. Otherwise, like I have said before in other posts, we will only recreate the dysfunction we wish to be freed from.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Perhaps the folks who are pushing for a "ban on 'Fake News'" are pushing one of many potential answers?



    At least, if they get their way they would have the final word... no wait, they would have the ONLY word. EVER.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)
    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    All words are lies...
    FIrst thing that comes to mind for me is, then why say anything at all?
    Truth is found in absolute silence. Truth is found in-between the words. So, don't be distracted by what is said with words.

    Truth can be 'felt' in-between the words that are said. Words cannot be the Truth, words can be the carrier of Truth. Words also carry lies. In fact, all words are lies. The more one is connected with their own inner silence, the more easier it is to see what people say is coming from their own inner silence, it also becomes easier to see what people are saying is not coming from their heart / silence - but simply saying what is not truthful.
    Last edited by turiya; 11th December 2016 at 23:21.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    My wish is that humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that manipulation of humans is no longer possible.
    I vote for help to get that part done.
    Then we can take care of business properly.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    My wish is that humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that manipulation of humans is no longer possible.
    I vote for help to get that part done.
    Then we can take care of business properly.
    That time was once present, here, on this planet Earth.
    My sense is, again, that day will soon be upon us.
    Until then, we will have to put up with elections.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    turiya

    Regarding your claim ...

    "All words are lies... "

    Are yours?

    There is an "intent" component at the heart of the act of lying. If there is no intent to deceive, then there is no lie. You begin from a nihilistic vacuum and proceed ... to where?

    Your statement seems derived from the old philosophical nostrum "Everything I say is a lie" which, if one tries to get to the truth of it, becomes a frustrating exercise that sees the snake swallow its own tail ad infinitum. It's interesting but ultimately useless. And, like the exercise of trying to decipher the riddle of the snake, I find your argument rather circular.

    If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum. If you truly believe what you have written, then there is no reason for you to engage with anyone on this forum other than to deceive and be deceived in turn. How can anyone around here take what you have to say seriously? Or pay you any heed at all? Why do you persist in such an exercise?

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are here to exchange honest and personal ideas. This requires that I assume you have simply erred by overstating your case. In future, then, please, for the sake of basic understanding, consider your words more carefully. We fellow members would like to understand what you have to say, but you have to respect the process that uses words to accomplish our goals.

    Now, you were saying ... ?

    Cheers,

    Brian
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 12th December 2016 at 04:23.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Truth is found in absolute silence. Truth is found in-between the words. So, don't be distracted by what is said with words.

    Truth can be 'felt' in-between the words that are said. Words cannot be the Truth, words can be the carrier of Truth. Words also carry lies. In fact, all words are lies. The more one is connected with their own inner silence, the more easier it is to see what people say is coming from their own inner silence, it also becomes easier to see what people are saying is not coming from their heart / silence - but simply saying what is not truthful.
    True that. I definitely get what you are saying - words are pointers at best. I appreciate that you temper the statement, "all words are lies" with your explanation that people may speak from their own inner silence.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    The Time magazine cover shows Trump turning to those just off the stage... a reality tv angle... a wink and a nod to those that elected him in my mind.

    Trump is just as much a puppet as Hilary. He wouldn't even have been allowed to run if he wasn't. His cabinet picks thus far prove that he is no different in my mind. If anything I think he will bring us into war more quickly and with less resistance from Americans because his brash, blunt and aggressive approach seems to be celebrated. He will go after China and Iran and his supporters will thank him for it at least initially. We will be knee deep in WW3 before 2017 is done. I think the powers that be had to use Trump because he gives the illusion of change.
    He will be easy to use a fall guy for war because pretty much everything that comes out of his mouth is inflammatory.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

    The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.
    Hi AutumnW,

    Long ago I concluded that when I think, speak or take action, I do so based on a particular point of view as to which level of reality I may be operating from at that moment and which was the primary POV founding my thought, word or action.

    My primary and all encompassing POV can be pointed to be describing "who I am." Who I am is "the timeless, formless eternal one life" (from Eckhart Tolle). Of course, I also draw the same conclusion about us all, all life, all manifest form that arises including that from which what has arisen rises. Within this "all that is" is the individual "I am" at the level of this one life. And additionally, I have a hope and desire that an essence of this individuation continues beyond the death of this physical body (and if so, that perhaps this essence preceded this current lifetime.




    The reason I stated the above is because the rest of my post is founded by the POV of "this one life (of my own individuation)" and all life that shares this level of reality with "Sam Hunter."

    I (Sam Hunter) have examined the world carefully for quite some time. I feel I have developed a reasonable degree of understanding about "what is" and also "what may be." I certainly do not think that what I think I know or what I think may be right or wrong for the world is in any way definitive, is in any way the most informed and and I certainly do not think I have the best ideas for the world to move forward.

    I do believe our shared reality experience would be far more loving if each and every one of us placed as a priority on answering the very question I have answered - the question and answer with which I began this post. To me, if there be any real answer... that each of us answer the question "Who am I" is that answer.

    So if someone asked me the question, "Who is the answer?"... I would say, "You... the man in the mirror."

    So now for the reason I wrote this post. I have two questions which are stimulated by your thread's title.

    Question One is - The answer to what?

    and Question Two is, if we can agree on "the what," then how are we able to place that answer (or not) on any single individual's shoulders such that their words and actions over some finite period of time would fundamentally and profoundly change the world's shared reality experience for all and perhaps for all time?

    So to summarize my questions -

    What should Trump (or anyone) be the answer to?

    And if we can identify "the what," who then could be the deliverer of this answer if anyone?
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    turiya

    Regarding your claim ...

    "All words are lies... "

    Are yours?

    There is an "intent" component at the heart of the act of lying. If there is no intent to deceive, then there is no lie. You begin from a nihilistic vacuum and proceed ... to where?

    Your statement seems derived from the old philosophical nostrum "Everything I say is a lie" which, if one tries to get to the truth of it, becomes a frustrating exercise that sees the snake swallow its own tail ad infinitum. It's interesting but ultimately useless. And, like the exercise of trying to decipher the riddle of the snake, I find your argument rather circular.

    If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum. If you truly believe what you have written, then there is no reason for you to engage with anyone on this forum other than to deceive and be deceived in turn. How can anyone around here take what you have to say seriously? Or pay you any heed at all? Why do you persist in such an exercise?

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are here to exchange honest and personal ideas. This requires that I assume you have simply erred by overstating your case. In future, then, please, for the sake of basic understanding, consider your words more carefully. We fellow members would like to understand what you have to say, but you have to respect the process that uses words to accomplish our goals.

    Now, you were saying ... ?

    Cheers,

    Brian
    First of all: This is not 'my' claim. It is wisdom that is handed down from ancient times...

    For example, there is this story:
    Master Lao Tzu gave the announcement to his many disciples that he was near the end of his time in his physical body & was leaving for the Himalayas. As he always felt that when the time came, he would like to pass away within the Himalayan mountains. Nobody was to go with him, nor was anybody to follow him. With respect, everyone gave him their fond farewell.

    When he reached the border of China, there was a guard there that was also one of his disciples. The guard loved him very much, but told him that since he would not be seeing him ever again, that he wouldn't let him pass out of China without first spending some time in his hut to write down some words of wisdom.

    Lao Tzu agreed and thus he began writing the Tao Te Ching. So for three days Lao Tzu was imprisoned by his own disciple. It is beautiful. It is very loving. He was forced – and that’s how this small book, the book of Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, was born. He had to write it, because the disciple wouldn’t allow him to cross. And he was the guard and he had the authority, he could create trouble, so Lao Tzu had to write the book. In three days he finished it.

    This is the first sentence of the book:
    "The Tao that can be told of is not the True Tao."
    This is the 1st thing Lao Tzu has to say: that whatsoever can be said cannot be true. This is the introduction for the book. It simply makes you alert: now words will be following, don’t become a victim of the words. Remember the wordless. Remember that which cannot be communicated through language, through words. The Tao can be communicated, but it can only be communicated from being to being. It can be communicated when you are with the Master, just with the Master, doing nothing, not even practicing anything. Just being with the Master it can be communicated. And the real Master is within.
    Yes, you get my drift.... Don't take my word for it. Do your own research - looking at your own mind - to see if this is true for yourself.

    If you take 'my' word for it, then it becomes "your belief" - believing what I say to be true. This is how all belief is created... this is the basis of all the established religions in this world. Belief is out of borrowed information... borrowed from others.

    If you believe what I say to be true, then you are setting yourself up to be betrayed when what was said falls short from your own expectation. Finding oneself to be supposedly 'betrayed' by the words said by another / others, leads to pointing the finger at others for what is now your claim of being deceptively lied to.

    Quote If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum.
    Like I said, its not 'my' claim... This world is built on borrowed information. This forum is part of this world we all live in. So yeah, you've been perfectly capable of living up to now in the world as it is, and have you found it somewhat difficult, at times, to understand whatever that goes on within it?

    Your question becomes... back around to yourself... yes, its circular...
    Quote How does one go on living in a world that nobody seems to really understand?
    The question comes back around to you...
    Let alone this world, this forum... Have you yet come to completely understand yourself?
    Have you come to completely know who you are?
    If you don't, then how do you go on living?
    Last edited by turiya; 12th December 2016 at 19:05.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Was the theory ever debunked that the elite would somehow manage it so that Obama remains in office (presumably due to some kind of event resulting in martial law)?
    If that is still in the cards, then we would probably be seeing the "event" soon; more rioting perhaps?
    But the picture is further complicated by the fact that new evidence is scheduled to be revealed in January showing that Obama's birth certificate and history were falsified (as well as questions re his Social Security number and his daughters' parentage).
    Though no doubt that could all be suppressed or ignored if events are well enough orchestrated.
    If the stories about how Trump was elected are really all just a part of the orchestration, then the election trauma-drama is probably not over yet.
    Last edited by onawah; 12th December 2016 at 18:30.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I wouldn't call words lies while it is true we got to use them for this, including this forum.
    It is however useful to remember that words are an invention, something that we made up, it's a make believe and not reality.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

    The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.
    Hi AutumnW,

    Long ago I concluded that when I think, speak or take action, I do so based on a particular point of view as to which level of reality I may be operating from at that moment and which was the primary POV founding my thought, word or action.

    My primary and all encompassing POV can be pointed to be describing "who I am." Who I am is "the timeless, formless eternal one life" (from Eckhart Tolle). Of course, I also draw the same conclusion about us all, all life, all manifest form that arises including that from which what has arisen rises. Within this "all that is" is the individual "I am" at the level of this one life. And additionally, I have a hope and desire that an essence of this individuation continues beyond the death of this physical body (and if so, that perhaps this essence preceded this current lifetime.




    The reason I stated the above is because the rest of my post is founded by the POV of "this one life (of my own individuation)" and all life that shares this level of reality with "Sam Hunter."

    I (Sam Hunter) have examined the world carefully for quite some time. I feel I have developed a reasonable degree of understanding about "what is" and also "what may be." I certainly do not think that what I think I know or what I think may be right or wrong for the world is in any way definitive, is in any way the most informed and and I certainly do not think I have the best ideas for the world to move forward.

    I do believe our shared reality experience would be far more loving if each and every one of us placed as a priority on answering the very question I have answered - the question and answer with which I began this post. To me, if there be any real answer... that each of us answer the question "Who am I" is that answer.

    So if someone asked me the question, "Who is the answer?"... I would say, "You... the man in the mirror."

    So now for the reason I wrote this post. I have two questions which are stimulated by your thread's title.

    Question One is - The answer to what?

    and Question Two is, if we can agree on "the what," then how are we able to place that answer (or not) on any single individual's shoulders such that their words and actions over some finite period of time would fundamentally and profoundly change the world's shared reality experience for all and perhaps for all time?

    So to summarize my questions -

    What should Trump (or anyone) be the answer to?

    And if we can identify "the what," who then could be the deliverer of this answer if anyone?
    Hi Sam,

    Just quick here because unfortunately I am running low on energy! "Who am I?" is a question that can't necessarily be found through rumination and self reflection. We may never really know who we are, but we can glean some understanding by honestly looking at the footprints we leave all over others, if we are jerks. We can learn a bit about who we are by observing when and where we have left footprints, beside others, from holding them up. We can learn, 'who am I' by noting our their absence, when we were being held up by others.

    "Who am I" can often only be known retrospectively and through the filters of our times. Sometimes the answer to 'who WAS I?' Are thrown at us in the present. I LOVED Barack Obama. That's who I was. But who am I now? I am a being who has been lied to and betrayed on every level, including the political one.

    I am a person who understands that my best qualities and hopeful nature can and will be used against me. I was not even that naive. What was I? I was embodied hope, in a sense. That desire for change and a better world subsumed my common sense. Who am I now? Someone who finds hope in smaller things, in friends, family and my local sphere.

    The man in the mirror is the answer, true. But he is not alone and he is not sitting still. He or she, together with vast numbers of others have a life force that expresses itself in movements of all kinds. And sometimes, feelings of hope and a zeal for change can be used against us.

    So, I guess maybe I would summarize by using the universal again...who are you, Sam? With respect to Trump...you are hope. And Trump is NOT the answer, he is going to represent the antithesis of that, as would Hillary.

    The only hope I have is that I am proved wrong! Because I can't know for sure.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 12th December 2016 at 21:45.

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    Canada Avalon Member Fellow Aspirant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    turiya

    You fail to grasp my point. Perhaps it is because I use words. What I am driving at is not profound, however. I am only taking exception to your claim that "All words are lies".
    And yes, it IS your claim. They are your words. Nowhere in your "lesson" on the teachings of Lao Tzu is the word "lie". His message - using words of course, is the same as every other great teacher who has become enlightened: the truth is ineffable. It cannot be expressed in words. This of course is ancient knowledge. And I agree with it - it's a given amongst those of us who aspire to enlightenment. But it does not mean that words cannot be useful tools for our explorations.

    What I must call you to account for, however, is not this insight, so please spare me the third rate philosophizing. What I wish you to address is the falsehood of claiming that all words are lies. I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie. What you are trying to say, I think, is that words are inadequate to convey the absolute, true sense of reality, the All. We can use words to try to describe the state of enlightenment, but we all know that words are only a poor approximation, at best. That should not and does not prevent us from trying, however. The great teachers use words and symbols and gestures and stories (in words) to show us the path toward enlightenment, but the journey is ours. To treat their words as lies shows contempt for their wisdom. So yeah, I get it. But don't expect me to treat all words as lies. To make such a claim is not to lie, but to reveal a lack of understanding.

    Brian
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 13th December 2016 at 02:59.
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Possibly the event that would provide an excuse for the declaration of martial law would be the assassination of Trump.
    Or possibly a false flag event in which Trump is apparently assassinated, but is actually spirited away to be retired for the rest of his life to some island paradise, while Obama remains the pliant tool of the elite as POTUS.
    With martial law, they wouldn't have to worry about alternative news getting the truth out about Obama's birth certificate or anything else, for that matter, and
    the fake news could continue being faked.
    The reason my suspicions keep on veering in this direction is that rather than public acceptance of the election results, tensions and disagreement seem to be on the increase...
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Was the theory ever debunked that the elite would somehow manage it so that Obama remains in office (presumably due to some kind of event resulting in martial law)?
    If that is still in the cards, then we would probably be seeing the "event" soon; more rioting perhaps?
    But the picture is further complicated by the fact that new evidence is scheduled to be revealed in January showing that Obama's birth certificate and history were falsified (as well as questions re his Social Security number and his daughters' parentage).
    Though no doubt that could all be suppressed or ignored if events are well enough orchestrated.
    If the stories about how Trump was elected are really all just a part of the orchestration, then the election trauma-drama is probably not over yet.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Thanks, AutumnW, for the reply. It appears to me that your reply focused on the "who am I" self reflective question from the perspective of the individuated being, known as AutumnW. Unfortunately, the reason I explained my own view (a multi-level view which creates the situation that context be shared as to which level I am 'speaking' from when I make a post such as this), was to let you and readers know that my question was coming from the individuated being and his one life known as Sam Hunter and not from the Big Me level of being (if there be that) or my multi-life soul aspect of being (if their be one).

    I feel I did a poor job of properly asking my question because of the lengthy preamble (yet again, here is a lengthy preamble). What I tried to do is explain that the way I view life is from the various levels of being based on the way I have answered the question, "Who (and perhaps what) am !."

    I then hoped to convey that my question I wanted to ask was coming from the level of being I refer to as "This one life" (the being known as Sam Hunter). I then pointed out that when I am looking at life from this point of view, I see a shared reality of all and everything that is just another expression of the All That Is (which I see as Big Me, Big That). By saying that, from this primary level... I take the view that we are all Big That (which can be viewed as Big Me from an individual's perspective). I am using words here. For me, words are inadequate to describe this but I did my best with the words I have used to "point to this - the ineffable." It seems to me that this (the inadequacy of words) is what Turiya was pointing out and with which I very much agree.

    And by the way, I wanted Barack Obama in 2008 because I liked the being I perceived him to be and I liked his message of real hope and change.

    So before I try and ask the questions that are burning inside me I must restate -

    It is important to me that the reader of my posts do not think that what I am pointing to is what anyone else should think or believe or have adopted as their own answer to the question, "Who/What am I?"




    Back to the reason for my post and the goal I hope to achieve - answers to these two questions - I have my own too and would be glad to offer them, but I am very much interested in your reply, AutumnW and the reply from anyone else who might want to consider these two questions.

    So let me simply ask -

    1 - The answer to what?

    and

    2 - If we are able to agree on the what, is anyone an answer to that?

    I am beginning to think that your thread title may have been trying to suggest this very thing... that not only is Trump not the answer, but perhaps no one is the answer. Am I on the right track? But this still leaves me wondering... answer to what?

    So finally I ask the original question again... if I have it right... what is it that anyone might be the answer to?

    I believe that the responses to this question are critical for this excellent thread to move past the duality hole it sometimes has descended into.
    Last edited by Sammy; 13th December 2016 at 14:13.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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