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Thread: Trump is NOT the answer

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Daozen (here)
    Yes TargeT the split has always been there. In True-man show terms it is the dialogue between those who are invested in maintaining the illusion, and those who want to 'break out', whatever breakout means.

    Note the mischacterizations. I read several boards, and Trump-promoting posters are all using the same playbook.

    1) Anyone who disagrees with Trump is a 'butthurt liberal Hilary supporter' who needs to 'deal with it'
    2) The MSM is 'controlled', the alt media is 'free'.
    3) We are supposed to be shocked and surprised that Trump 'came out of nowhere' despite the fact that Oprah was asking him to run for President decades ago. The establisment knows we don't like them, so they try and paint their next choice as a maverick outsider, just like they did with Obama.

    We are also told we need to 'wait and see' about Trump. Waiting and seeing is what this part of the media has been doing for nearly a decade.

    The healthiest thing to do is take a step back, admit both sides of politics are co-opted, and try and build a future without them.
    Right on. Regarding building a future without them - apparently it is a necessary part of the drama, for now.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

    I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).
    It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.
    I think its all about free will, not determinism at all. Determinism is another way of "giver your power up".

    Free will however, doesn't mean "uncontested free will"... Between an easy choice and a hard choice, I'd rather see the outcome of the hard one; it's more telling to "who the person is". I'm also of a mind set that we are all the same thing, objectively experiencing our selves in a subjective way.

    Now that has some philosophical implications that are far beyond the scope of this thread, but in short:

    Yes we do have pre-programmed tendencies, but this is not determinism, more like... momentum. Momentum can be overcome, though the more of it there is the harder it is to do.... some of our programming has a LOT of momentum behind it, for example: the concept of individuality when we clearly are a part of a collective & will even die when separated from human contact for too long.

    There are many such topics with a high level of kinetic energy...




    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)
    So, on the one hand, I do see that we do not need a "messiah" - we are all the messiahs for each other here, without even knowing it (in that, by our very existence and presence we provide the mirrors for each other that facilitate the awakening process). And on the other hand, I see that our will seems to have very little to do with the actual awakening process. In fact, in my own experience, my own personal will (ego?) seems to get in the way.

    so that's my two cents on the matter anyway.
    I think our will has everything todo with it, but the disposition is, in the majority; lacking.

    It is HARD to question strongly held beliefs, it is HARD to question things you "know" & self evaluate based on that... not many people are willing to do hard things even when they KNOW there will be great benefit.
    Last edited by TargeT; 14th December 2016 at 18:42.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

    I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).
    It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.

    Since it seems to me like most people here on the forum are awakening, then the question remains - how much of that process is determined by the assertion of our own wills, and how much of that process is out of our direct, individual control?

    I would like to add a musing I posted on another thread about dreams, regarding the collective awakening process:

    "I would like to say that my hope is for all of us to fulfill this destiny collectively. I believe, in fact, as I move through each day and assimilate new information and experiences, that it is inevitable.

    We are all in this together.

    There is no need for a messiah, because we are all leading each other, unwittingly, to our collective salvation.

    I am watching myself relax into the eternal flow, as +dim so eloquently puts it, in the face of extreme adversity and the most triggering events of my life. I am in awe of this process. The sense of calm, peace, stillness that I am experiencing is - ineffable. My mind cannot explain it. My mind wants to have a debate about control, and the rest of me wants to lie down quietly in bed. I feel like a caterpillar in a cocoon turning into goo."

    So, on the one hand, I do see that we do not need a "messiah" - we are all the messiahs for each other here, without even knowing it (in that, by our very existence and presence we provide the mirrors for each other that facilitate the awakening process). And on the other hand, I see that our will seems to have very little to do with the actual awakening process. In fact, in my own experience, my own personal will (ego?) seems to get in the way.

    so that's my two cents on the matter anyway.
    Everybody ought to print out your post and paste it on their fridge! So eloquent and so true. You are wise and a true delight. Thank you.

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  7. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    We are the answer, not political leaders. When humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that humans can no longer be manipulated we will have found the answer from within ourselves. Self empowerment and knowledge is required. Giving power away to politicians gets us more of what we have had from government.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 14th December 2016 at 18:40.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Target,

    After years of reading about how intelligence agencies and operations work and also about how psychopaths operate to hook people, it's readily apparent that an operative or a psychopath can get a read on you within five minutes. Once they get their read they can do an end run around your intuition. This is where people get so messed up by them.

    Our intuition is the product of myriad insights gleaned from personal experience, social milieu etc.. through our formative years. After a certain point in our lives, confirmation bias takes over. Our minds become less plastic, with age and we become more set in our beliefs.

    People think they can't be fooled, that their intuition will always protect them. In truth, anyone can be deceived along the lines of what they 'know' to be true. And intuition is a pretty deep form of 'knowing.'

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Target,

    After years of reading about how intelligence agencies and operations work and also about how psychopaths operate to hook people, it's readily apparent that an operative or a psychopath can get a read on you within five minutes. Once they get their read they can do an end run around your intuition. This is where people get so messed up by them.
    Oh yes, and look what we have now... Facebook, its ridiculously easy to profile people, even more so when they give intiment details on a daily basis... When facebook got popular the Alphabet agencies probably threw a party.

    We are so ridiculously predictable and easy to read, yet at the same time CONVINCED we are unique and special (and thus: not extremely predicable habit creatures).

    The cognitive dissonance is impressive.


    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Our intuition is the product of myriad insights gleaned from personal experience, social milieu etc.. through our formative years. After a certain point in our lives, confirmation bias takes over. Our minds become less plastic, with age and we become more set in our beliefs.

    People think they can't be fooled, that their intuition will always protect them. In truth, anyone can be deceived along the lines of what they 'know' to be true. And intuition is a pretty deep form of 'knowing.'
    I think it's worse than that.

    I think most people don't have a good concept of what intuition is (or may be, I'm not sure I know for certain; but at least I acknowledge it and often depend on it). I think that modern media shows us sensational "magical" things to blind us from the actual, current "magical" things that are happening... if we expect fire balls and explosions how are we to be blamed when we miss a whisper and a nudge?

    When I step back and look at it all there's no way I don't come to a conclusion that we are being manipulated by external forces that either are not effected by time as we are, or are "out side of " time.

    But I always reign myself back to reality (Thanks Ego!) I'm special and not predictable at all, I'm totally not going to eat one of the 10 dinners I commonly eat tonight, I'm totally not going to drive the same route back home, at the same time, listening to the same radio station... Nope, that's someone else, I'm special!
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Yep...Facebook. Getting people to actively spy on themselves! Perfect!

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by The Freedom Train (here)
    It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.
    In what way do you think it would make a difference if there is free will or determinism?

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    In what way do you think it would make a difference if there is free will or determinism?
    In terms of the big picture, maybe no difference. Or all the difference in the world. Or maybe both at the same time. In terms of individual perspective and "progress" - same. In short, I have no idea!

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    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Everybody ought to print out your post and paste it on their fridge! So eloquent and so true. You are wise and a true delight. Thank you.
    *blushing*

    Thank you. I love you.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    He probably is not the answer to what a lot of people would wish for and i am not really a trump fan other than politics. as i said in a previous post, no one knows
    what he will or will not do as president so cut him some slack and wait and see.
    you can not please most people most of the time. no matter what he does he will be criticized and he knows that.

    i wish it was in my power especially before the election to let women especially, know what the clintons are, period. don't expect me to educate you on that.......
    I feel sorry for women who do not know the facts regarding that reality. but it can be easily found out......

    the political system is skewed and all wrong as it has come to be.
    ir's no wonder people argue undlesly when you/anyone is put in a situation where you have practially no choice.. you can choose this or that and nothing else LIVE WITH IT.
    well no, we need a revival of the system. put your thinking caps on. we have four years or continue arguing on and on and on...........

    not the answer? no, proably not But better than the alternative that's for damn sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    To my Avalon family, I would like to please add one more thought to all of this, Yes we the people are the body that makes up a country, each of our countries, without us there is just land. We elect based on people to present a lead, if positive results come from that then more will follow and believe to make our countries and lives better. I gave our last president this same chance of optimism even though I did not cast my vote for him. I give this man the same optimism . Think of all the hurdles this man overcame, the R candidates, The entire Media, He used his own money for the most part to run and watched his family take the hits of all the allegations but yet he the man kept moving forward. And after the election Donald Trump said he doesn't want a salary for this job he volunteered for. Really. And he also said he will take limited vacations because in his words"there is a lot to take care of". I don't know about you but if I had his money and success and a beautiful wife, I think being propped up on the beach in the Caribbean with a margarita sure looks a heck of a lot better than swimming with the sharks and the snakes to try and get something done for a country and its people, that is unless your heart is in it .

    I'm looking at this ridiculous wining cry baby BS the Democratic party is trying to pull, It ain't Bushes fault on this one. And now today since the DMC is saying it was Russia , people are coming forward that are disputing far to the contrary including the intelligence communities, then you have Ole Ms stein who from what hole she crawled out from , so they did a recount in Wisconsin and trump got 130 more votes, Michigan was heading the same way so that didn't work either, so now they are trying to work on the electoral votes, my god this sounds like a Soap opera drama of a bunch of wining babies who didn't get there way. Never mind the fact that the night of the election there were numerous reports of people voting and there votes that got switched from trump to Clinton right in front of them. Where were those investigations.Didn't here one report of it the other way. So thru all of this , thru all of the gauntlet of crap, the lies, and stuff none of us probably never knew about either, Trump prevailed.

    I would submit to all of you to give this one thought, When General George Washington took the lead for this country (USA) to in fact become a country, during all the battles, all the lost battles, going from 23,000 volunteer militia troops to 4000. He never gave up . And what i consider angelic intervention and so did his men was the fact that he rode a white horse, was very tall for this time period, and never had a bullet hit him....................... Hmmmmmmmm!

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I am just recalling how enthusiastic so many people were 8 years ago when we thought Obama won the election against all odds, thinking that a relatively unknown upstart, an apparent great friend of the people, etc. etc., with so many promises of changes he was going to bring about, was actually going to prevail.
    It wasn't long before that all began to slowly unravel and we saw (at least, some of us did) how we had been played.
    It doesn't seem to matter how deep we burrow into those rabbit holes, they just keep getting deeper and deeper and more and more complicated.
    And so it doesn't seem too far afield to propose that really, nothing is as it seems.
    I agree with Paul in that I think Trump may just be the elite's next move to bring about their NWO.
    Perhaps they are just getting sneakier the more we are waking up, or at the very least, they are playing it cool and waiting for things to settle down before they play their hand.
    Just because the Clintons are being routed doesn't mean the real behind the scenes controllers are worried, considering all the resources they have at their disposal.
    But on the far end of all these moves and this waking up process, it may turn out to be like George Green predicted in his books beginning with Handbook for a New Paradigm http://www.trufax.org/handbooks/paradigmvol1.html
    ...it may turn out that he was right and it is necessary for this planet to be much more united before we will become a truly galactic civilization.
    Maybe that's just part of the necessary evolution each world must go through.
    Of course, the elite's ideas of how this should come about and what it should be like, and how the 99% feel about it are not going to be in agreement.
    No doubt neither will have their way 100%, but hopefully it will result gradually in some sort of compromise that will make sense, and there will be the possibility for improvement and evolution.
    There is no proven reason to believe this, but I think it is a possibility, and it's one I hope for.
    We tend to dwell mostly on the bad news in conspiracy circles, and don't really get wind of much of whatever genuine good news there is, but possibly it's out there, just not being shared, or being twisted to look like nonsense.
    In short, maybe we are at the end of the Kali Yuga now, and the only way from here is up.
    Last edited by onawah; 15th December 2016 at 02:39.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Hi Sam

    Well, I guess, to boil my argument down to a single word, I'd say "deception". As in ...

    "I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie.

    I agree that we have a consensus on the ineffability of expressing the "All" or the "Truth" in words. I consider these two words to be interchangeable, given the proper context.

    Any honest attempts to describe the state of knowing the Truth, or the All, or of the path toward them are, IMHO, valid - even if those attempts are expressed in words. No deception = no lies. That's all.

    Brian
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 15th December 2016 at 02:42.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Yet also, to attempt to describe that which cannot be could be considered... deceptive.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Yet also, to attempt to describe that which cannot be could be considered... deceptive.
    Or valiant. Or courageous. Or foolish. Or maybe just too stubborn to give up trying to get a little closer to the truth.

    If not, what are we here for, anyway?

    Brian
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    turiya

    You fail to grasp my point. Perhaps it is because I use words. What I am driving at is not profound, however. I am only taking exception to your claim that "All words are lies".
    And yes, it IS your claim. They are your words. Nowhere in your "lesson" on the teachings of Lao Tzu is the word "lie". His message - using words of course, is the same as every other great teacher who has become enlightened: the truth is ineffable. It cannot be expressed in words. This of course is ancient knowledge. And I agree with it - it's a given amongst those of us who aspire to enlightenment. But it does not mean that words cannot be useful tools for our explorations.

    What I must call you to account for, however, is not this insight, so please spare me the third rate philosophizing. What I wish you to address is the falsehood of claiming that all words are lies. I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie. What you are trying to say, I think, is that words are inadequate to convey the absolute, true sense of reality, the All. We can use words to try to describe the state of enlightenment, but we all know that words are only a poor approximation, at best. That should not and does not prevent us from trying, however. The great teachers use words and symbols and gestures and stories (in words) to show us the path toward enlightenment, but the journey is ours. To treat their words as lies shows contempt for their wisdom. So yeah, I get it. But don't expect me to treat all words as lies. To make such a claim is not to lie, but to reveal a lack of understanding.

    Brian
    Brian

    Yes, misunderstanding is possible with word usage between two people, between many people, a crowd of people. But I have not failed to understand what you are meaning to say. On the contrary, you appear to not follow what it is I've written... its not a problem for me. It seems to be a problem for you.

    You are revealing something significant, though. It is something significant about you.

    Obviously, words are very dear to you - to the point that you think that they are 'your' words. And the words I speak are 'mine'. They are not. The words we choose to use - they are borrowed.

    Think about it... When you came out of your mother's womb, did you bring any words with you? I would assume that you did not. It would be highly unlikely that it was the case that you brought 'your' words with you.

    On the other hand, you were taught words, what they mean, and how to speak them. The definitions came along with them as the learning process took place. The word usage was taught. They came from others, parents, family members, friends, teachers - the society in which you live.

    We use the words we learned from the time we entered into this world. We use them for the short time we are here. Then we leave this world. And when we go, we don't take words with us.

    Another story...
    If you are familiar with the historical figure named Jesus. If you know about the story of Jesus, then you may be familiar with the time he stood in front of Pontius Pilate. Standing there, Pilate asked Jesus "What is Truth?"

    The answer Jesus gives was beautiful. But Pilate missed it. As any worldly person would miss, as perhaps you are also missing it... Pilate had totally missed the answer Jesus gave to him, it went entirely over his head.

    Pilate asked Jesus, "What is Truth?" And Jesus responded with his silence, in his absolute stillness. Not even a vibration of a thought within the mind. That was the answer Jesus gave to him. He was demonstrating to Pontius Pilate what Truth is... Truth reveals itself in absolute silence. Silence is found in-between the thoughts that you think. In-between the words that are said. Within the profound silence of your being.

    But Pilate missed it. He got impatient. Didn't understand the answer. Instead, he got angry, thinking Jesus must be so arrogant... in not answering him. He must have felt Jesus was treating him like a 3rd rate person. "How dare he do such a thing!"

    This is ego. The ego of Pontius Pilate. He must have thought that Jesus wasn't respecting him. "How dare this 3rd rate person be like that to me! To not answer a simple question!"

    If Jesus would have said anything at all, any word, it would have been untrue. It would have been a lie!

    In fact, whether Jesus said anything or not Pilate would have misinterpreted what was said, just as he misinterpreted what was not said. Point being is that whatever word choice one makes, the chances are it will be misinterpreted by those that receive the uttered / written words. Because even while Jesus was absolutely silent, Pilate went on thinking - uttering words to himself. A man like Pilate doesn't know the meaning of being absolutely silent. A mind like Pilate's is a mind that is full of noise - the noise of a swirling whirlwind of words - a cloud of words cluttering up his mind. With a cluttered up intellect, clarity of perception is lost - and truth becomes unavailable.

    From this standpoint... Knowing that all words are lies - then one will be in a position to not be deceived. If you think that you've been lied to, its only because you had an expectation of not being lied to by others. Knowing that all words are lies, then you know that a misunderstanding is quite possible, and most likely probable. Misunderstanding, misinterpretation, the perception of being lied to, it is actually the repsonsibility of the receiver of the spoken / written words... because of one's inability, incapability, to live without words.

    How far have you come? How far have we all come?
    Born into this world without words, and now one cannot live without them. How far does one move away from the truth of one's own being?

    its not a problem... understanding comes through misunderstanding. Learning takes place through not knowing... it is not 3rd rate, as you say. Some day, some time, you will see it. You will come to know... what is meant... by the words I have chosen to use to point to the wordlessness. That will come later, perhaps - but that time is not now....

    peace - out.
    Last edited by turiya; 15th December 2016 at 20:10.

  32. Link to Post #137
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Autumn, I thought you might find this interesting.

    At least more interesting than the derailment of this thread into the questions about what the nature of "is" is.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews...6804300076358/

    Live as I post. I will repost a recording if i find one.

    EDIT: Link is now to recording.
    Last edited by Whiskey_Mystic; 16th December 2016 at 03:05.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    I suppose the question here is to ask "do what degree to I distrust the mainstream media?".
    For those who answer the question in the five to seven range, I can see distrusting Trump due to their being some grain of truth in what the MSM is stating.
    For those who answer "10", as in I distrust the MSM so much I use them as an opposite barometer, then Trump being a possible answer is self evident.
    The fact we have the CIA now trying to derail trump should also cause one to pause when questioning the hope folks here are placing in him.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I suppose the question here is to ask "do what degree to I distrust the mainstream media?".
    For those who answer the question in the five to seven range, I can see distrusting Trump due to their being some grain of truth in what the MSM is stating.
    For those who answer "10", as in I distrust the MSM so much I use them as an opposite barometer, then Trump being a possible answer is self evident.
    The fact we have the CIA now trying to derail trump should also cause one to pause when questioning the hope folks here are placing in him.
    I see what you are saying, but I still have the feeling that whatever we are being shown does not necessarily need to be taken at face value. Meaning, if the MSM is bashing Trump, does that really mean TPTB hate him? or is that what they want us to think? Feint, reverse feint.

    There is always the possibility that Trump is "in on it" - that the MSM attacks of him were designed to divide and conquer we, the people. I still cannot shake the feeling that whoever is as visible and financially endowed as these people are is most likely in on the whole thing, whatever it is.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Consider the possibility that incredibly caring and intelligent people are performing the very most intelligent actions all and only to achieve a goal that has two very important sub goals... the first being to truly get the world out of the hands of a loose network of some pretty dark shadow actors and the second being to accomplish the first without pushing any of these folks who have the wherewithal to cause massive disruption or damage (and perhaps irreparable) to a point of desperation such that they may act on this capability.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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