+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

  1. Link to Post #21
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,644
    Thanks
    30,563
    Thanked 138,851 times in 21,553 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    It has puzzled me for a while why it is that a medical procedure that might cost $1,000 in Mexico or Ecuador or Thailand (or many other places) will cost say $10,000 in the United States.

    The cost of medical procedures, tests, care and drugs has been rising steadily in the United States over the last two or three decades, relative to what they reasonably are (whether privately or publicly paid) in most of the rest of the world.

    The reason, I now think, is plain as day. It's the debt.

    As I sit here in a northern suburb of the Dallas - Fort Worth area, surrounded by new housing and medical facility developments, and the associated malls, shops, and widening streets ... fundamentally financed by the medical business, this is quite real to me.
    • Most of those doctors, especially the younger ones, owe money on their education.
    • All those new homes, malls, hospitals, and medical offices have mortgages on them.
    • All those new and widening streets are financed using city and county bonds.
    • All the nice new equipment in those hospitals, labs, and offices is financed.
    There is no way in Hades that Obamacare, Trumpcare, Single-Payer, Medicare, or any other "sensible" national medical policy can work to make health care affordable in the US. Either the patients will be bankrupt, or the governments will be bankrupt, or the patients won't be cared for. Those are the only options. This is because that immense pile of debt demands payments.

    That's why a doctor in Mexico or Ecuador or Thailand can work for a tenth what a doctor in the US can work for ... they have a tenth the debt burden.

    Only when many of the nice new homes built on all sides of the trailer park I live in are foreclosed on and abandoned, when many of the new medical practice office buildings that surround me in all directions are foreclosed on and abandoned, the education loans to young aspiring doctors are somehow defaulted, some of the new hospitals fail, and the remainder of the hospitals fall into disrepair, struggling to make ends meet and keep up even minimal maintenance ... only then can we Americans have a chance at functioning health care for reasonable cost (whoever pays it.)

    Only when first both the (1) sickcare practices of the last century, introduced by the Rockefellers to extract wealth, and (2) the lending practices of the big banks, which have been in overdrive in the American health care industry for the last three decades, are rejected and blatantly fail, will it matter what health care policy the US government adopts. Until then, I choose to live and die by what health care I can provide myself (mostly good food and water), and to absolutely avoid conventional health care facilities and practioners.

    Once the health care industry in America starts going into reverse, defaulting on debt and closing down, it's going to start looking rather ugly around here. My North Texas suburb may start resembling a Detroit suburb, after the American auto industry went into decline.

    Summary: There is no good answer to how to manage health care in America. The current system is under far too great a debt burden. It must fail catastrophically first.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 23rd April 2017 at 04:52.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    avid (23rd April 2017), Basho (4th May 2017), Bill Ryan (23rd April 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), mgray (24th April 2017), Ron Mauer Sr (24th April 2017), silvanelf (9th June 2019)

  3. Link to Post #22
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,425
    Thanks
    211,625
    Thanked 459,752 times in 32,946 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    That's why a doctor in Mexico or Ecuador or Thailand can work for a tenth what a doctor in the US can work for ... they have a tenth the debt burden.
    Could be, yes. (But all other costs are cheaper, of course... although not a tenth as much.)

    Here in Ecuador, a good chiro appointment (with a US-qualified expat) is $15. Removal of a mercury amalgam filling is $25, done 100% properly. And the voluntary state medical insurance is $64 per month for a single person, $77 for a couple: expat residents qualify for that. And that covers everything one might think of.


  4. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Atlas (8th May 2017), avid (23rd April 2017), Basho (4th May 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), hohoemi (23rd April 2017), silvanelf (9th June 2019), ThePythonicCow (23rd April 2017)

  5. Link to Post #23
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,644
    Thanks
    30,563
    Thanked 138,851 times in 21,553 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Could be, yes. (But all other costs are cheaper, of course... although not a tenth as much.)

    Here in Ecuador, a good chiro appointment (with a US-qualified expat) is $15. Removal of a mercury amalgam filling is $25, done 100% properly. And the voluntary state medical insurance is $64 per month for a single person, $77 for a couple: expat residents qualify for that. And that covers everything one might think of.
    Almost no medical, dental or chiropractic practice could survive with such fees in the US. Someone - insurance, government or patient - must pay far more.

    Another aspect of this problem, closely related, is the insurance coverage required to avoid losing your medical practice in lawsuits. The legal and insurance systems are part and partial of the financial system.

    The big medical insurance and "care" corporations got that way by having access to essentially unlimited funding to buy up or run out of business smaller independents, just as happens in most other industries in the US. They then use their oligopolic control to extract even "more rent" from the practitioners, the doctors, nurses, lab techs, patients, tax payers and insurance payers. They would not have that oligopolic control if not for the ample funding by the big banks to fund loans, buyouts, takeovers, stock issuances, etc.

    Everywhere you turn, it's financial feudalism (back to this thread's title). The big banks use the power of issuing debt-money into the power to (1) fund corporate and government control of this feudal system, and (2) enslave people, businesses and governments into unending debt bondage.

    I forgot to link an article that I saw a few days ago, that prompted me to post my thoughts above: Health-Care Industry Debt Turns into “Systemic Recession Risk”.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 23rd April 2017 at 07:16.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  6. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    Atlas (8th May 2017), avid (23rd April 2017), Basho (4th May 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), mgray (24th April 2017), silvanelf (9th June 2019), TargeT (4th May 2017)

  7. Link to Post #24
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    44
    Posts
    9,177
    Thanks
    25,610
    Thanked 53,662 times in 8,694 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    I don't think this is the start of a domino effect, more like a prediction of the future....

    Quote Puerto Rico Declares a Form of Bankruptcy


    With its creditors at its heels and its coffers depleted, Puerto Rico sought what is essentially bankruptcy relief in federal court on Wednesday, the first time in history that an American state or territory had taken the extraordinary measure.
    The action sent Puerto Rico, whose approximately $123 billion in debt and pension obligations far exceeds the $18 billion bankruptcy filed by Detroit in 2013, to uncharted ground.
    While the court proceedings could eventually make the island solvent for the first time in decades, the more immediate repercussions will likely be grim: Government workers will forgo pension money, public health and infrastructure projects will go wanting, and the “brain drain” the island has been suffering as professionals move to the mainland could intensify.
    Puerto Rico is “unable to provide its citizens effective services” because of the crushing weight of its debt, according to a filing on Wednesday by the federal board that has supervised the island’s financial affairs since last year.
    The total includes about $74 billion in bond debt and $49 million in unfunded pension obligations.
    While many of Puerto Rico’s circumstances are unique, its case is also a warning sign for many American states and municipalities — such as Illinois and Philadelphia — that are facing some of the same strains, including rising pension costs, crumbling infrastructure, departing taxpayers and credit downgrades that make it more expensive to raise money. Historically, Puerto Rico was barred from declaring bankruptcy. In the end, however, financial reality trumped the statutes, and Congress enacted a law last year allowing bankruptcy-like proceedings.
    Puerto Rico has been in a painful recession since 2006, and previous governments dug it deeper into debt by borrowing to pay operating expenses, year after year. For the last two years, officials have been seeking assistance from Washington, testifying before stern congressional committees and even making fast-track oral arguments before the United States Supreme Court.
    At the same time, Puerto Rico’s efforts to coax its creditors to agree to concessions have gone nowhere. Now the coming court proceedings will give Puerto Rico extraordinary powers to impose losses on holdout creditors unilaterally.
    The island’s many creditors — whose lawsuits filed against Puerto Rico on Tuesday prompted the island’s request for court relief on Wednesday — are likely to receive far less of their money back than they want. Their predicament may turn out to be a cautionary tale for bond holders of other troubled states and cities. Puerto Rico’s case could show public workers and retirees that seemingly inviolate pension systems can be changed, too.
    The next step is for the Supreme Court — specifically, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. — to designate a bankruptcy judge to handle the case.
    The island’s lawyers may view some bankruptcy courts as more likely to be favorable to them than others. Some creditors fear Puerto Rico will seek to have the case handled in the Southern District of New York.
    Puerto Rico’s governor, Ricardo Rosselló, issued a statement Wednesday aiming to offer some reassurance, even as he sought the federal court’s protection. “We remain committed to holding good-faith negotiations to reach agreements with our creditors,” he said, adding that he hoped the court proceedings would “accelerate the process.” He appeared to be referring to the extraordinary power Puerto Rico will now have in court to unilaterally impose big losses on creditors.
    Some of those creditors are furious.
    “The Commonwealth’s proposal is not a credible starting point for negotiations,” Andrew Rosenberg of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton and Garrison, an adviser to the Ad Hoc Group of Puerto Rico General Obligation Bondholders, said in a statement. He said that moving the proceedings to bankruptcy court would put the situation in “free-fall.”
    The creditors got a shock this year when Mr. Rosselló issued a five-year fiscal plan that allowed only about $800 million a year to pay principal and interest on Puerto Rico’s bond debt, far less than the roughly $3.5 billion a year it would cost to make those payments on time. The prospect of losses on that scale prompted some creditors to argue that most of the $800 million was rightfully theirs.
    “That things are starting out in such a highly adversarial way strongly suggests this will be a long and contentious journey for Puerto Rico,” said Matt Fabian, a partner at Municipal Market Analytics who closely tracks activity in the municipal bond market.
    Puerto Rico’s case will be the first ever heard under a federal law for insolvent territories, called Promesa, which was enacted last summer; the Obama administration had warned that a “humanitarian crisis” would ensue if Puerto Rico were not given extraordinary powers to abrogate debt. There is no existing body of court precedent for Promesa, but the island’s creditors — who range from hedge fund managers to mom-and-pop investors — are bracing for a titanic battle.
    Despite the depth of the island’s troubles, many Republicans in Congress have opposed debt relief, saying that the island has long received big federal subsidies for its health system, public housing and other works. They said Puerto Rico should explain what it had done with that money before it got any more help.
    Last week President Trump suddenly added fuel to those fires, saying on Twitter that there should be no “bailout” for Puerto Rico.On the island, Washington is not seen as a helper but as an unsympathetic colonial overlord. The step toward bankruptcy-like proceedings, under a federal judge, intensified complaints that Puerto Rico has lost all control of its own future.
    But at the same time, some Puerto Ricans say quietly that if the court proceedings really do allow their government to cancel debt, their island may finally get the fresh start it needs.
    The coming court proceedings will not be formally called a bankruptcy, since Puerto Rico remains legally barred from using Chapter 9, the bankruptcy route normally taken by insolvent local governments. Instead, Mr. Rosselló petitioned for relief under Title III of the Promesa law, which contains certain Chapter 9 bankruptcy provisions but also recognizes that, unlike the cities and counties that use Chapter 9, Puerto Rico is not part of any state and must in some ways be treated as a sovereign.
    Bankruptcy lawyers and public finance experts are watching Puerto Rico’s case closely, to see if it shows a path that financially distressed states like Illinois might also one day take. States, like United States territories, currently cannot declare bankruptcy.
    The only creditors who reached an agreement with Puerto Rico were the holders of a class of bonds, about $9 billion worth, that were sold to raise money for the island’s public power utility. Those creditors gave concessions that the governor pointed to Wednesday as a good example for other creditors to follow.
    The governor’s fiscal plan also calls for shifting all current government workers from pensions into 401(k)-style retirement plans. Current retirees will continue to receive their traditional monthly pensions, but the amounts are to be reduced by about 10 percent on average.
    The governor’s hand was forced by the expiration on Monday, at midnight, of a court stay that had been keeping Puerto Rico’s creditors from suing. On Tuesday, as soon as the stay expired, bondholder groups and at least one bond insurer sued. Wednesday’s actions by the governor and the federal supervisory board effectively blocked the lawsuits from proceeding.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/b...debt.html?_r=0
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Atlas (8th May 2017), Basho (4th May 2017), Bruno (4th May 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017)

  9. Link to Post #25
    United States Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    18th September 2016
    Posts
    1,062
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 5,370 times in 1,011 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    I've known I'm a feudal serf for years but after reading Paul's excellent delineation of our financial feudalism I'm now - positive i'm a serf! thx Paul

    After reading Paul's analyses I listened to 3 financial vids back to back: David Stockman, Rob Kirby and Michael Pento. After all the info I'm still left with my banal - what the heck do i do?! When these guys talk about the 'global bond markets' are they talking about all the bond markets? i.e, corporate and government including the 'flight to safety' bond markets of short term treasuries and money markets? When Stockman says get out of 'the markets' (plural) is he saying folks shouldn't have a 401k or an IRA at all? these guys are financial wizzes and they're good at scaring us but I'm always left with not quite getting what they are trying to tell us what to do....

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Helene West For This Post:

    Atlas (8th May 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), TargeT (8th May 2017)

  11. Link to Post #26
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    44
    Posts
    9,177
    Thanks
    25,610
    Thanked 53,662 times in 8,694 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    When these guys talk about the 'global bond markets' are they talking about all the bond markets? i.e, corporate and government including the 'flight to safety' bond markets of short term treasuries and money markets?
    Just remember, as dire as it seems... it's all still smoke and mirrors..

    the proof is posted every year....
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Atlas (8th May 2017), Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), Helene West (9th May 2017)

  13. Link to Post #27
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    10th July 2013
    Location
    Project Avalon
    Posts
    3,649
    Thanks
    19,216
    Thanked 16,230 times in 3,216 posts

    Default Re: Financial Feudalism: the plight and future of human civilization.

    Sergey Mavrodi: "I want to destroy the world financial structure"


  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Atlas For This Post:

    Foxie Loxie (8th May 2017), Helene West (9th May 2017), TargeT (8th May 2017)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts