$1,000 bitcoin tells more than Dow 20K

[mgray]

Happy New Year’s to all my readers.

A quick update. Bitcoin has spent the entire 2017 over $1,000 so far.

As global Forex markets are trading today, the Chinese yuan is trading near a 52-week high, which for the Chinese is a weakening of the currency. As some of the young middle class see their currency being hit on purchasing power, the move into the crypto-currency to sustain wealth and transfer capital into dollars is growing.

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[lucidity]

Hi mgray,

where are you getting your prices from ?
I'm getting mine from btc-e.com and BTC hasn't yet made it to $1000
(but it's not far off: $993 as i write)

My consistent predictions have been:
(1) BTC is going to $10K
(2) But the better bet is litecoin.
(Time will tell)

If you look at this chart:
https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btc...zm1g10zm2g25zv
It shows, or should show, the BTC prices as traded at btc-e.com in dollars.
On 21st december some news caused a dramatic 25% increase in BTC prices.
The price was just under $800 on 20th of december.

I wonder if the news... is that new administration (Trump) has signalled,
or some rumour indicates, that the doors will be opened for BTC
(in terms of legality and regulation) -- speculation on my part.

You could be right about Chinese middle class however

[mgray]

Here's the pricing web site: http://www.coindesk.com/price/

And here is a real-time global map on BTC purchases: http://fiatleak.com/

Just watch the flows into China during its trading hours and afterward. The volume is amazing, it pales any other country.

[ponda]

You might also like this one lucidity as it has BC, LiteCoin and some metals, oil etc

https://ounce.me



In last week’s report on India’s demonetization disaster I began to connect the dots between demonetization, the push for a cashless society, and the biometric identification schemes that will eventually tie everyone’s fingerprints, iris scans, and other identifying details to every transaction they ever make.

Well, that game of “connect the dots” just became even easier to play.

First, it was reported last week that a key panel advising the government on its implementation of the “digital payments ecosystem” (that is being pushed and funded by USAID) is now recommending that India links its national biometric ID database directly to tax returns.

And now comes word that India is “working on a biometrics-backed payment system that will be connected to a user’s unique ID number, or Aadhaar.” (Who could have seen that coming?)

No, it doesn’t take a Nostradamus to understand where this is all heading: From the cashless society and the biometric ID grid to the cashless biometric grid. And we already know about the cashless society. Now it’s time to collect the data on the biometric ID grid.

And let’s not be naive: As I’ve demonstrated before, this is a coordinated plan to institute a worldwide biometric id system to track every human on the planet.

But given how fast and furious these new biometric databases are coming online, no one person can possibly keep track of them all. That’s why I’m calling on Corbett Report members to help assemble this information. Like last year’s open source investigation into the War on Cash, this country-by-country guide will be updated with input from the Corbett Report community. Members of the site are invited to log in and leave links to information about the biometric ID grid in their country in the comments section below.

Country by country guide - https://www.corbettreport.com/the-bi...country-guide/

[lucidity]

Interestingly... Vinny Langam predicted $1000 for bitcoin in 2016 (he was right)
and he's also predicting $3000 for bitcoin in 2017
(on the basis that there's nothing to stop the rise of bitcoin now that China have liberalised crypto trading)
If you're interested, see here:
https://vinnylingham.com/bitcoin-201...927#.gxvz9ayrz

[lucidity]

Posted by lucidity (here)
Hi mgray,

where are you getting your prices from ?
I'm getting mine from btc-e.com and BTC hasn't yet made it to $1000
(but it's not far off: $993 as i write)

My consistent predictions have been:
(1) BTC is going to $10K
(2) But the better bet is litecoin.
(Time will tell)

If you look at this chart:
https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btc...zm1g10zm2g25zv
It shows, or should show, the BTC prices as traded at btc-e.com in dollars.
On 21st december some news caused a dramatic 25% increase in BTC prices.
The price was just under $800 on 20th of december.

I wonder if the news... is that new administration (Trump) has signalled,
or some rumour indicates, that the doors will be opened for BTC
(in terms of legality and regulation) -- speculation on my part.

You could be right about Chinese middle class however

The bitcoin price appears to be soaring.
Two days ago, 3rd of Jan, the BTC price was just over $1000.
Today it's gained $150, an extra 15% on top of the 25% it already gained since 20th Dec.
Current price is $1150
See here: http://www.coindesk.com/price/
So the total gain is $350 from 800 to 1150
That's nearly a 44% gain (in 16 days)

I expect there will be articles from Newsweek, the Guardian, CNN, Fox etc
declaring that bitcoin is dead (yet again).

Oh and perhaps we'll have this "death" message reiterated by one of
the mods on Avalon, as happened last time... very dodgy behaviour!

remember my 'consistent predictions' as stated above :-)

Think about what's happening right now in the USA.
In November Trump was talking to Allison about a possible role as Treasury Secretary.
Allison wants to end the Fed... (many people believe Wall Street
has been kicking the US economy into the dustbin)... and return the power
of money creation to a central USA bank.

One way of addressing the problems with the banking system is to base
the number monetary units in the economy with a definitely honest
accounting ledger that prevents fraud and prevents the artificial inflation
of the money supply (i.e. bitcoin or a bitcoin clone: eg: Litecoin ... etc)

If that happens, bitcoin is going to $100 K or $1,000 K

The other thing that could happen, is that, to undermine the power of the
banks, Trump could decide to free up regulations on bitcoin trading and
bitcoin purchases in order to encourage it's use. Again, the value of
bitcoin, litecoin and many of the other crypto currencies will balloon.

My recommendation is... buy litecoin... it's eventual long term price is
theoretically 25% of bitcoin's price. (Based on volume in circulation)
What % of bitcoin's price is litecoin currently ?
Answer: 0.4% Not 40%. Not 4% but 0.4%

[Anchor]

If you want to do the research and own crypto-currency safely, then my recommendation is to have some BTC and some DASH (or LTC like lucidity says above). My reason for this is that in the future I expect BTC will be used for slower moving (once every 10 mins) exchanges of high values, and I don't see it as suitable for micro transactions in the longer term. Smaller values at higher rates of exchange will need a different infrastructure like LTC or DASH.

[lucidity]

The BTC price as i write has dropped to: $914.
(In fact it's dropped from $935 to $914 during the few minutes that i've been writing this post!)

The price as dropped quite rapidly in response to comments made by the
Chinese Central Bank about tightening capital controls for bitcoin.
See this article for more on this:
https://www.rt.com/business/372749-b...rash-currency/

This shows just how sensitive the bitcoin price is to Chinese bank announcements.

Bitcoin is highly volatile. If the price is going up past $1,000 it still makes sense
to place a buy order at $900 exactly because of this volatility.
A friend of mine decided to place a buy order at £9 (some years ago now) when the
prevailing price was hoovering around £25. He left the buy order in place, forgot
about it. About a month later he read an article about how the bitcoin price had
recovered after the previous week's drop. The new price was £32.
The previous week the bitcoin price had "crashed" to .. something like.... £5.
He'd made an immediate an immediate profit of 32/9 profit on £100.

If there's a war between Trump and the Banksters, and the Banksters start
messing with bond prices, or currency prices etc... to wreck Trump's control
over the US economy then people will move their wealth into a variety of
safe havens, one of which will be BTC.

If there's an economic slowdown or 'cyprus' style attack on current accounts
in europe... then people will react by putting their wealth in safe havens..
again, including bitcoin.

The prospects for substantial growth in bitcoin prices in 2017 are favourable.
(But don't forget to keep your eye on litecoin :-) )

[mgray]

Here is what I wrote this morning on bitcoin.

As I said on Wednesday, I do not advocate people use bitcoin as an investment.

Now I am not pumping bitcoin as an investment, I am using this as a new economic index to assess currency markets. I stress bitcoin is not an investment, since I do not think there is enough liquidity in the marketplace to make it safe for your future needs, due to volatility and perhaps hacking of bitcoin wallets.

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[lucidity]

Posted by mgray (here)
Here is what I wrote this morning on bitcoin.

As I said on Wednesday, I do not advocate people use bitcoin as an investment.

Now I am not pumping bitcoin as an investment, I am using this as a new economic index to assess currency markets. I stress bitcoin is not an investment, since I do not think there is enough liquidity in the marketplace to make it safe for your future needs, due to volatility and perhaps hacking of bitcoin wallets.

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So just a couple of quick questions:

Question: What was the best performing currency of 2016 ?

In 2017, people around the world may need a safe haven to stash their
money for some period of months or years.

Would you pick the British Pound ? (Given the uncertainties following Brexit ?)
Would you pick US Dollar ? (Given the various predictions of looming inflation) ?
Would you pick the Yuan ? (Chinese investors are trying to get their money 'out')
Would you pick the Euro ? (Given that the euro has been in decline since Brexit)

Why would you _not_ want to consider the best performing currency of 2016 ?
It's out performed gold and silver and platinum and all other currencies.

Question: What was the best performing currency the year before, in 2015 ?

Bitcoin started 2015 with a price of $315 and finished with a price of $430 - That's at 36% return.
What other currency, bond or other investment returned 36% in 2015 ?
(Answer: probably something "dodgy" like weaponry sales, prostitution or narcotics trafficking)

USA Treasury bonds are paying less than 1%, (1 year) and 2.45% (for 10 year bonds).

The greater volatility of bitcoin is an asset since it provides opportunities for the patient investor
to buy lower and sell higher (than the current prevailing price).
This is the classic argument for investing in silver rather than gold.

Your statement about the hacking of bitcoin wallets is just a load of old fudge.
There has been no recent, or even historic news, of bitcoin wallets been hacked.
Individual exchanges have been hacked, for example at MtGox, but bitcoin wallets remain secure.
If you believe that bitcoin wallets have been hacked, please supply that news link.

And this suggestion that bitcoin is _not_ an investment is shear balderdash.
Not only individuals but institutions now declare bitcoin holdings in their portfolio.
For example, UBS, Credit Suisse, and Deutschebank.
Pension companies, despite being traditionally conservative, got on board during 2016.
The recent price climb of BTC was caused by chinese investors, investing in bitcoin....
ergo... bitcoin is as much as an investment as any other currency.

Question: What is bitcoin's current market cap ?
Answer: right now, it's $16,000,000,000 (since there's 16 million bitcoin in circulation)

So.. to recap, BTC:
started 2015 at $315 and ended at $430 (36%)
started 2016 at $430 and ended at $1000 (232%)

What else paid out 232% in 2016 ?
That's probably more than weaponry sales, prostitution and drug trafficking.

And we have crypto and other analysts suggesting 2017
could be a boom year for BTC if there's stress on the dollar, the euro or yuan.
One guy, Vinny Langam, is predicting $3000 for 2017.
(His prediction for 2016 was bang on the nail at $1000)

@mgray, of-course, you and i can agree to disagree, that's fine. :-)
Just out of interest, if the sh!t hits the fan in 2017, what safe haven will you be using ?

[mgray]

Lucidity, where did I say it was not a good investment per returns. I cited its soaring value over the last month.

I merely pointed out that it was not for the faint of heart given its volatility. And I said I use it as a currency index to monitor the FX market.

I don't give my readers investment advice. I point out possibilities and give them both sides of the coin (pun intended).

My biggest concern going forward is that the SEC may rule by March to allow the Winkelevii twins (of Facebook fame) to start an ETF based off of bitcoin.

Then you have a another whole level of price manipulation to worry about.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by mgray (here)
My biggest concern going forward is that the SEC may rule by March to allow the Winkelevii twins (of Facebook fame) to start an ETF based off of bitcoin.

Gold (the actual in hand metal) tripled or quadrupled in the first decade after the SPDR ETF (GLD) was created in 2004.

So perhaps such a bitcoin ETF would be a good thing, for bitcoin holders, if they are able to securely manage their own bitcoin wallet.

As with gold, so with bitcoin - a coin in the hand can be worth two (or two dozen) in the "bank".

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Bitcoin is still dropping as news trickles out to the public that China is going to increasingly regulate and monitor the Bitcoin market for currency pouring out of China. China is trying to stop the bleeding, and unfortunately China accounts for over 90% of Bitcoin trading in recent months. So a negative impact on Chinese trading hurts everybody for now. China will also be investigating what appear to be fake large volume trades on the Chinese market, which artificially inflated the price of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is sinking down into the $700s now, and maybe will bottom out even lower before it's all said and done. In the short term I don't think Bitcoin looks very good, but the lower it goes, the better of a deal it will be to buy. In the long term, as in, later in 2017, I think it looks great for Bitcoin. Why? Here are a few things to watch out for:

1) Bitcoin seems likely to be approved for open exchange just like stocks in the US later this year. What that means in the long run, I don't know, but in the short term it'll probably result in a big boost to Bitcoin prices, regardless of China.
2) The French and Germany elections. If either Le Pen in France or the AFD in Germany wins, or just Merkel is replaced with an anti-EU group, it's going to be a heavy, maybe fatal blow to the EU and the Euro as a currency. A victory by Le Pen alone is going to be a huge blow to the EU that may send people racing to exchange their endangered Euros for Bitcoin, just as Greece did during the worst part of its financial crisis. They'll probably be looking to buy gold and silver too, which the French government will probably be selling (if they have any left), if they default. If France and Germany effectively vote to reject the EU, then it's all over but the crying and the Euro as a currency is probably dead for all intents and purposes.
3) The Trump administration is anti-Fed. They will first pass bills to audit the Federal Reserve, which were already passed in bipartisan bills previously, but vetoed by Obama. Trump is not going to veto. That's in the short term. In the long term Trump is probably going to try to dismantle the Fed completely and open up the US domestically to more gold and silver trading, and he has people in his cabinet that are pro-Bitcoin as well. So that's a strong possibility.

If Bitcoin ever gets to the point where it can be used in supermarkets, gas stations, etc., which is already starting to be implemented in small ways (like trade cash for Bitcoin as gas stations -- already happening!), and this becomes a widespread trend, its value is going to go through the roof.

So even though in the short term it's looking bad for Bitcoin, it'll be a good opportunity to buy when it bottoms out. It'll be back up to its previous high and beyond, it's just a matter of time. The more China gets out of Bitcoin the better, because China is totalitarian and a financial bully, and can't be trusted with a monopoly on Bitcoin trading.

[Chester]

BitcoinMeister Show Interviews Me on the Future of Cryptos

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ovk2ig_ag

Interesting discussion about something I don't know much about but see talked about on PA a lot.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Here's another problem: The Federal Reserve now supports Bitcoin.

Why?

It's not anonymous anymore, if it ever was really anonymous. Even using TOR networks to route Bitcoin activity, transactions can be tracked. That means eventually it can be regulated. The IRS is already trying to bust people moving large amounts of Bitcoin without paying taxes (they consider Bitcoin transactions as taxable). If it gains enough momentum they'll just totally co-opt it just like they did Google and turn it into a tool of the globalist system by trying to roll out a global "cashless society" with it. They are already making the moves.

There are other cryptocurrencies coming out that are much more promising in terms of anonymity, and federal authorities actually complain about those. I have seen federal agencies publicly complaining about not being able to keep up with cryptocurrency transactions, and they mentioned specific currencies, like Monero, but here's a hint: they don't complain about Bitcoin, and it's by far the most widely-used out there.


Nevertheless it's back up between $1050 and $1100 at the moment and may still be a good investment opportunity, but not as much as before. China is increasingly exerting control over the market (they already have something like 90% of the trading volume) and if Trump takes control of the dollar's future then in the long term we're going to see a very strong dollar and that means less incentive to move cash into safe havens, and less demand for Bitcoin, at least in the US (which is admittedly already less than 10% of trading volume). With globalists openly trying to co-opt Bitcoin, it's looking like less of a safe haven anyway.

[Chester]

and this update from Bill Still

Trump’s New Budget Director Supports Bitcoin

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IVm4X9iMpRU