Meditation trouble?

[Miaspri]

I'm throwing this out here in hopes of ideas. 3/4 the time I meditate, I fall asleep. I have tried the guided meditations on. The only time I can stay awake is in nature. Thus unless I go to nature it's a struggle. I want to align my chakras, or even just meditate without having to go to nature. Any ideas?

[DeDukshyn]

I have similar issues -- when I was younger I could meditate deeply on demand (after much practicing to obtain this skill), and lower my heart rate very noticeable amount within seconds. These days if I can get 1/2 as deep as I used to be able to meditate (without falling asleep), I consider it a success.

Possible causes for me ...

- Alcohol intake - not sure, but I do drink more now than did when I was younger - a few drinks daily.
- Physical prowess - my body used to be in incredible physical condition ... and now it is not - at all. There is a bit of a link between mind body connection and ability to use that connection to deeper meditation.
- Chronic low level microwave exposure - maybe just a loose correlation, my meditative skills seemed to have taken a hit when all these massive new cell towers "silently" went up all around the city 5-10 years ago - there is now so many that you can see at least three others from the location of any one -- the city is covered - not to mention all the ones hidden as "church steeples" (most often steeples are turned into microwave emitters - look closely around the base of almost any major church steeple - you'll see some massive cables and such - but they can be hidden quite well - a little side income for the church I guess).


Those are my top three guesses ... with me anyway ...

[Miaspri]

Thank you. Physical shape, I'm out of shape. Alcohol I don't drink very often. As for microwave exposure I'm not sure how much.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Miaspri (here)
Thank you. Physical shape, I'm out of shape. Alcohol I don't drink very often. As for microwave exposure I'm not sure how much.

I just have this gut feeling, combined with that past experience that getting myself back into shape will dramatically improve my ability to meditate (well it improves almost everything, to be honest). I started practicing deep and controlled breathing - not for meditation but for physical conditioning - eventually I found the two went incredibly well together.

Another thing to maybe try is a bit of green tea before meditation - don't worry about the caffeine too much, green tea has relatively high levels of a compound called l-theanine, which changes the way caffeine works in the body and tones down the caffeine effect one might see with coffee - this is why tea drinkers don't usually get the jitters or anxiety like coffee drinkers do. L-theanine itself also encourages the brain toward alpha brainwave state - which is the main meditative brainwave state; that said one cup might not have enough theanine to give the latter effect, but it is available, sourced from tea, as a supplement - if you want to try that route. I have tried it and I find it does have a very subtle but desirable effect on the mind - chills a person out but keeps them alert - it's very subtle.

The small hit of caffeine might help to keep you awake as well ... just don't over do it. Mate (maté) might also work for this, but without the caffeine (has some theanine in it as well and a stimulant called mateine that is related to caffeine, but with a smoother effect)

One other thing - don't meditate in a place where you sleep or have slept and don't do it oin the same position you sleep in -- that might help. The body is habitual as well, and it gets used to certain environment / states for sleep and will begin to wind down before you even know it.

If anyone else has any tips, I too would like to hear them.

[Clear Light]

Posted by Miaspri (here)
I'm throwing this out here in hopes of ideas. 3/4 the time I meditate, I fall asleep. I have tried the guided meditations on. The only time I can stay awake is in nature. Thus unless I go to nature it's a struggle. I want to align my chakras, or even just meditate without having to go to nature. Any ideas?

Oh, I wouldn't worry about it too much ... have you considered taking a complete break from Meditation for a while ?

Perhaps your Brain-Body-Mind needs to "adjust" in some way eh ?

It's not necessarily about the amount of "Meditation" you do, but rather the Quality or Clarity it seems to "reveal" right ?

This comes to Mind : "Short moments, many Times"

[TraineeHuman]

Sleepiness is one of the two major problems that people learning to meditate encounter. (The other common problem is not being able to turn off the stream of compulsive thinking.) Sleepiness is caused by your inner physical inertia. It's a very useful tool to bring in when you do want to go to sleep. By "inertia" I mean things like apathy, dullness, and going stupid and blank and knowingly taking on the passive energies of a slug. Normally such dullness is the opposite of what we need to be, but when we're trying to switch off so as to get to sleep, it works fine.

Sleepiness is different from true calmness. The ideal is that in meditation we learn to bring in true calmness but remain awake. Most of the problem is that you haven't as yet fully learnt how to replace inertia with calmness. That's easier said than done, for anyone. The inertia doesn't fully get replaced (by calmness) except after a very, very long time, and only if one has learnt how to access a higher level of consciousness almost at will.

This is a major reason why all forms and schools of meditation teach the beginner to first work on developing their ability to concentrate. People today have already learnt to master concentration up to a certain point, through the education system. But the concentration required for attaining the calmness is still more than that, and still takes time (say, at least months of daily practice) for most. In early stages of learning to experience the calmness during meditation, the concentration needs to be quite active and dynamic. One needs to have a sense of mastery of one's inner forces and of being able to apply them to whatever area one wills. Usually it's easier, and safer, to learn to put one's concentration into the heart, though into the head can also work.

[Miaspri]

Thank you! Definitely going to try all of the above. 😄

[AutumnW]

I have two modes--restless agitation and sleepy. Some of it is due to physical illness, I think?? I used to be able to slip into trances at the drop of a hat. Now it is impossible. It's like something is suggesting to me that I remain alert at all times. Very maddening. It could also be age related. Hope it isn't the first stage of dementia. That would be annoying.

I feel your pain! I want to be the space cadet New Age weirdo I once was!!

[enigma3]

In Dzogchen the teaching is to rest in rigpa, the observer. Not focus on anything. Rather different than a focused concentration. Tummo would be an example of a Dzogchen focused meditation. The Dalai Lamas rarely spoke of their Dzogchen practice publically until this Dalai Lama.

Resting in the observer showed me the often repetitive nature of thoughts and feelings. Like player piano reels. Then the monkey mind began to fade into a corner. It became much easier to just sit. The observer is always in the now, so it takes a while to get used to - thus the saying short moments many times (at first). The observer is also seen to be VERY awake. No more laziness or sleepy. A famous Dzogchen book title is "Old Man Basking in the Sun".

[amor]

Dear Autumn: It is difficult to be that space cadet with two children and the need to be in survival mode with all the worries of life to face alone. I have never been able to Meditate as described by others. However, now that I am retired and live alone, I occasionally get the opportunity to stop worrying about my meager budget and get to enjoy the peace that passes understanding, and am as thankful for it as if I were a wealthy person. My glimpse of meditation goes something like this:

I sit quietly and comfortably and mentally feel for that pineal gland in the center of my head using my heart. Sounds strange? The love of God for all creatures emanates from the heart and is also picked up by that gland in the center of the head. It emanates like a spreading smile upon all the Lord's creation. It is thankful and grateful and joyful and sometimes fights to keep out memory of the every-day world. You can feel that center in your brain like a spreading light which is also coming from your heart. This primary state of BEING is maintained; if you get good enough at it, other thoughts may be developed but they are always subservient to the first feelings.

I once was in a meditation with the First Jain (?) of India and was very surprised that I could feel an actual force emanating from him that actually washed over me, along with the audience; and so I know that when we meditate, love spreads out into the world. It is without the definition of words; it is pure love and joy. It does affect the whole world. All my love to you and yours.

[Guish]

Hi Miaspri,

Some great advice has been provided above. One is more alert in the morning if one slept very well. Hence, I'd advise you to meditate early in the morning after waking up. Try to build your concentration by starting with 5 mins. Another appropriate time is after exercising. I run for 30 mins, have a shower and then sit for a 15 mins session. That works because you are very alert after exercising. If meditation is not your thing, try 7 healing Tibetans which combine exercising with breathing and meditation. I'll give a link if you want.

Cheers,
Geerish.

[enigma3]

I will add here that by far the best way to prep for a meditation session I have ever found is to do some svaroopa yoga before sitting. 4 postures that are not difficult to do yet have a profound effect on alert relaxation.

[DNA]

Stop meditating with your eyes closed.
Do open eye meditations.
They key is to fix your gaze on something and not move your eyes.

Have you ever done an open eye meditation? Eye movement instantly snaps you out of meditation, strangely, it is harder to keep your eyes still while they are closed, as such, open eye meditation works wonders. I get mine from Carlos Castaneda, my favorite is using a small pebble to stare at to exclusion of everything else. The pebble, especially granite, absorbs your energy and starts to feel like a part of you, making it a deeper, easier meditation. You must keep your vision and attention focused on the object without breaking.

After doing this for a while (each person is different), the pebble being filled with energy from staring at it becomes "wavy" in a short while, everything becomes "wavy", I do believe this is the field that connects all living things. It is my experience that this practice of meditation not only prevents one from falling asleep, it is also the quickest to activate the third eye.
That "wavy" field I was talking about that connects all things is your third eye awakening, and it is the activation of the third eye which changes the vibration of your entire being.

[The Freedom Train]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Chronic low level microwave exposure

I think this plays a big part in meddling with people abilities to reach certain states of awareness and being - such as through a discipline like meditation.

Also, consider this: meditation is a double edged sword. Entering into it with a specific goal somewhat defeats the primary purpose of it.

Perhaps this is a time for relaxation, and a time for much needed sleep for you? Is it possible to engage in meditation in a more relaxed manner, without expectations or goals, and just allow it to be what it wants to be for you at this time?

[AutumnW]

Posted by amor (here)
Dear Autumn: It is difficult to be that space cadet with two children and the need to be in survival mode with all the worries of life to face alone. I have never been able to Meditate as described by others. However, now that I am retired and live alone, I occasionally get the opportunity to stop worrying about my meager budget and get to enjoy the peace that passes understanding, and am as thankful for it as if I were a wealthy person. My glimpse of meditation goes something like this:

I sit quietly and comfortably and mentally feel for that pineal gland in the center of my head using my heart. Sounds strange? The love of God for all creatures emanates from the heart and is also picked up by that gland in the center of the head. It emanates like a spreading smile upon all the Lord's creation. It is thankful and grateful and joyful and sometimes fights to keep out memory of the every-day world. You can feel that center in your brain like a spreading light which is also coming from your heart. This primary state of BEING is maintained; if you get good enough at it, other thoughts may be developed but they are always subservient to the first feelings.

I once was in a meditation with the First Jain (?) of India and was very surprised that I could feel an actual force emanating from him that actually washed over me, along with the audience; and so I know that when we meditate, love spreads out into the world. It is without the definition of words; it is pure love and joy. It does affect the whole world. All my love to you and yours.

Thank you, Amor. I will try to focus on love the next time I try to meditate. Maybe I should pour all my focus in that direction and it will have abundant positive effects, all around. I don't k ow how easy it will be though. I think I am a loving person already, (except for the times when I am a bit of an arrogant b**ch)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Guish (here)
Hi Miaspri,

Some great advice has been provided above. One is more alert in the morning if one slept very well. Hence, I'd advise you to meditate early in the morning after waking up. Try to build your concentration by starting with 5 mins. Another appropriate time is after exercising. I run for 30 mins, have a shower and then sit for a 15 mins session. That works because you are very alert after exercising. If meditation is not your thing, try 7 healing Tibetans which combine exercising with breathing and meditation. I'll give a link if you want.

Cheers,
Geerish.

When I was meditating deeply and frequently, in my twenties, I was exercising a lot. So...yes, there seems to be a tie-in.

[Catsquotl]

There's several ways to meditate. from peaceful silence. Samatha practice experiencing Jhana's and blissful or joyous states. To Vipassana practice in which one tries to discern what's what right now, which often feels like hard work, to Sila practice or every life action not connected to the direct sitting or walking meditation, but helpful non the less because when conducting yourself such a fashion will diminish stress that spills over during formal meditation practice I do see Metta practice as Sila practise which can be done during formal sitting. Sometimes after sitting with a particular feeling of being stuck in your practice it helps to change your routine, try one of the others. Just be clear you don't start switching them because one becomes uncomfortable.

With Love
Eelco

[Miaspri]

Thank you guys for the wonderful advice. I will try everything happily and look forward to trying. I'm so blessed to have found this forum.

[Wizard Of Ozark]

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but there is also standing or walking meditation (a google search will find you what you need). You don't have to sit with your legs crossed. I'm always encouraged when I hear of anyone taking up a meditation practice. It can only mean good things for the world. Thanks for your service!

[Unicorn]

From The Secret of the Golden Flower:

"The nose must serve the eyes as a guideline. If one is not guided by the nose, either one opens wide the eyes and looks into the distance, so that the nose is not seen, or the lids shut too much, so that the eyes close, and again the nose is not seen. But when the eyes are opened too wide, one makes the mistake of directing them outward, whereby one is easily distracted. If they are closed too much, one makes the mistake of letting them turn inward, whereby one easily sinks into a dreamy reverie. Only when the eyelids are lowered properly halfway is the tip of the nose seen in just the right way. Therefore it is taken as a guideline. The main thing is to lower the eyelids in the right way, and then to allow the light to streaming of itself; without effort, wanting the light to stream in concentratedly. Looking at the tip of the nose serves only as the beginning of the inner concentration, so that the eyes are brought into the right direction for looking, and then are held to the guideline: after that, one can let it be. That is the way a mason hangs up a plumb-line. As soon as he has hung it up, he guides his work by it without continually bothering himself to look at the plumb-line."

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by The Freedom Train (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Chronic low level microwave exposure

Also, consider this: meditation is a double edged sword. Entering into it with a specific goal somewhat defeats the primary purpose of it.

My comments to further on this point of yours is that the only goal of meditation is to meditate - it is an experience intrinsically not an action, or an attainment. If one attempting to meditate can keep this in mind, it should help with other edge of the sword.

Reminds me a little of an Alan Watts bit where he amusingly dissects the wordage ... "you must relax" -- and points out the absolute absurdity and contradicting nature of that statement. One should always just be "being" in all they do.