We made this. (or Trump's Collective: Here's what happens when we get what we want)

[7eagle14]

I'm unsure how to explain the abject worship that Trump gets from us.
As far as I can tell the only loud person in conspiracy truth circles who was actively warning people not to get sucked in to the sales pitch was David Icke (still only a little though). Alex Jones seems to have made it his new religion. Many ongoing posts here at Avalon the same.

How much effort was spent dismissing his actions, reinterpreting his words, excusing his behavior, and outright ignoring what he was doing. All so we could defeat the Clinton boogeyman. So many of us on any other day would say, "The ends do not justify the means," and vote a third party. Abstain. Simply refuse to join in with Stormfront, Brietbart, or hell even 4chan, and maintain our moral compass if nothing else.

We so desperately wanted (I include myself) it so badly that we cheered for the man who openly bragged that he would lie to us. We stood alongside the xenophobia, nationalism, and prejudice and thought, "But I'm not like that so it's OK. In fact, it's not real." We decided the ends justify the means.

And so we cheered. In a just world it would be only those of us who cheered who then felt the ill-effects of what we wanted. But our world is not yet just.

We feared that, upon Clinton's win, the government would be filled with millionaire campaign donors, Goldman Sachs' flunkies, sociopath bankers/businessmen, and amoral sycophants being rewarded for loyalty. Here're the people Trump is appointing... here's what we did.

Positions Must be Confirmed by Senate

Sec. State. Rex W. Tillerson CEO of ExxonMobil
Sec. Treasury. Steven Mnuchin {,,,} Goldman Sachs partner
Dir. NEC (Nat. Econ. Coun.). Gary Cohn Goldman Sachs COO
Sec. Defense. General James Mattis breaks civilian "control" of military
Att. General (Dept. Justice). Jeff Sessions denied judgeship in 1986 for history of overt racism
Sec. Commerce. Wilbur Ross Jr. {,,,} history with Rothschild Inc.
Sec. HHS (Health & Human Serv). Tom Price offronted by the ACA, Medicare, and PP
Sec. Energy. Rick Perry pledged to eliminate the Dept. Of Energy
Sec. Education. Betsy Devos {,,,} Christian lobbyist for charter schools (privatized education)
Adm. EPA (Environ. Pro. Agency). Scott Pruitt strong ties to fossel fuels

Dir. OMB (MNGT & Budget). Mick Mulvaney, Sec. Transportation. Elaine Chao, Sec. HUD (Housing & Urban Dev). Ben Carson, SBA (Small Busniess). Linda McMahon, Chief Trade Neg. Robert Lighthizer, Dir Nat. Intel. Dan Coats, Sec. Interior. Ryan Zinke, Sec. Labor. Andrew Puzder, Amb. UN. Nikki Haley, Sec. HS (Homeland Sec). John F. Kelly
Sec. Agriculture.
Sec. Veteran's Affairs.


Selected Positions. No Senate Confirmation.


CSO (Chief Strategy). Stephen K. Bannon history at Goldman Sachs and profits from White Nationalism
NSA (Nat. Sec. Adv.). Michael Flynn outspoken Islamaphobe
White House Counsel. Donald McGahn credited as instrumental in loosening campaign finance regulations
Regulatory Czar. Carl Icahn corporate raider

Counselor to Pres. Kellyanne Conway, Chief of Staff. Reince Priebus, Senior Policy Adv. Stephen Miller, Press Secretary. Sean Spicer, Trade Czar. Peter Navarro, HSA (Homeland Sec. Adv.). Thomas P. Bossert



Notes in bold are for notable appeals/critiques. Heartrendingly the same things that appeal to some are what're repulsive to others.

{,,,} It turned out to be more efficient to only identify the billionaires or billionaire financiers. Damn near everyone is straight-up rich.

[Kryztian]

While I totally agree with your concerns about Trump's appointees, and I completely disagree with you laying the blame on Avalonians on this one. And one might conclude that you are implying it is a tragedy that we didn't get the ever so lovely Hillary Clinton instead.

Project Avalon is not the Trump cheering squad. Many of us found him preferable, or at least, no worse to Hillary. Some of us had enthusiasm for some of the issues he was raising (ending the TPP, questioning 9-11).

And as much as I will oppose and criticize the Trump Presidency, I will say that a few things seem to be going better because of him:

• the TPP and the TTIP, two of the most evil corporatist scams to swindle the wealth of many great nations and stifle free market competition and human rights in favor of cronyistic multinational corporations, are probably now dead.
  
• the likelihood that ISIS or the Salafist "Jabhat Fateh al-Sham" will take over the country is a whole lot less likely. Perhaps Trumps presidency might have something to do with the fact that Aleppo has been liberated.
  
• Hard to estimate what the likelihood of a war with Iran is now, but if it happens, there will be a lot more opposition from the left than if Hillary was conducting it.
  
• Liberal America, that fell asleep while Obama assassinated the first American citizen without a trial, expanded drone attacks, brought about regime change in Libya, increased weapons sales to the Saudis and allowed them to bomb Yemen, etc. etc. etc. is now awake. If Bush had done any of these things there would have been great outrage . Now they might wake up again, if they can figure out what is really wrong with Trump and not get distracted by the "Pussygate" type issues.
  
• The politics that the American political and military machine are pursuing are aggressive, mean and nasty. Instead of a smooth talking Obama or Hillary, we have someone whose demeanor seems to match it's naked greed and mean spiritedness more closely.

[DeDukshyn]

We do have to remind ourselves that every elected president has let down its people no matter how high we've raised our hopes. Remember when Obama was supposed to save us? Even the "channeling" told of Obama being the man who will finally bring change. It matter not whether they are right or left - there's two wings for this purpose to give us hope that we can always choose the other side after things get too bad.

The result would be the same had Hilary won ... the only presidents that ever truly tried to work for the people against the rulers were shot in the head. If we get another one, assume the same fate.

Again, it's not up to a president of the US to "save" us -- we have to drop that mentality.

[bettye198]

With a pragmatic view, any one official to be vetted for a Presidential cabinet will have some kind of skeleton in their closet, or an association thereof. How could anyone in Washington survive without that connection? This is despite what their heart and head tells them. So, that said, Trump will need the best possible out of the deplorable ones to choose from to surround himself with advisement. And the old saying always goes, you are most successful based on what you surround yourself with.
I suspect there are Iffy ones and if they prove to be the kind that stir up trouble, there is a President Elect who loves to fire.

[Helene West]

Tranquila, Eagle.

Nobody here did any of the things you speak of.

We had TWO (non) choices. A 3rd party vote was a vote for the decades-old service family of the corporate elites. There was NO third choice.

People knew the demon in clinton, trump was Mystery Door #2. Many chose Mystery Door#2, so what? They were trying to escape being crushed by the ruling class and they took a chance, knowing it may probably not work but they knew definitely nothing good was in store for them with Clinton.

How do you know that trump and his family isn't being threatened by the international corporate elite? He obeys or something happens to him or his son?

If you want to get hysterical with at least some validity, ponder how controlled we really are. It is cause for upsetment. Or, you can go the common route we are all trained to go like circus animals and focus on personality, citizens blaming citizens... the ruling class forever getting off the hook...

IF WE CAN BE AS SMART AS MEDIEVAL SERFS AND ACKNOWLEDGE WE ARE RULED BY A RULING CLASS- maybe we can then proceed from there. But keep making believe we have choices and acting like Rush Limbaugh or Chris matthews who focus on The Scapegoat personality and direct all our angst on the designated scapegoat and his/her constituency, and we're all just dead in the water.

People took a last shot at hoping they had some kind of choice, they are as disappointed and sad as you, stop blaming. Time to have compassion for ourselves.

[TargeT]

Posted by 7eagle14 (here)
Simply refuse to join in with Stormfront, Brietbart, or hell even 4chan, and maintain our moral compass if nothing else.

Ever spent any time on 4chan?

I hold 4chan in VERY high regard, do you know what it is?


You are parroting talking points, I understand how convincing they are (as they are INTENDED to be)... but how much personal research have you done on this one?

Posted by 7eagle14 (here)
We stood alongside the xenophobia, nationalism, and prejudice and thought, "But I'm not like that so it's OK. In fact, it's not real.

Xenophobia?

Uhh...........................


YEP, the left is strong with this one!

[AutumnW]

7eagle14,

I hear you. Obama is like Gorbachev, presiding over Russian collapse. And Trump is going to play the role of Yeltsin. And I understand you are likely very anti-Clinton and anti-status quo, as well.

Get ready for oligarchy on steroids.

I would question the xenophobia, though. Most people are just fed up with immigration policies that displace them.

[DNA]

The enemy would be the CIA, the neocons, the democons and the media they control and attempt to control us with.


Trump is huge in my eyes for not belonging to any of these groups and giving the middle finger to all of them.

[AutumnW]

DNA, 'splain his closeness with Israel, his demonizing Iran (serves Israel) and also please explain how you know that he is not close to military intelligence. Also, keeping the sequester on all agencies, in the interest of the balanced budget amendment -- except for the military. The military represents 60% of federal spending....so that is yuuuuge.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
DNA, 'splain his closeness with Israel, his demonizing Iran (serves Israel) and also please explain how you know that he is not close to military intelligence. Also, keeping the sequester on all agencies, in the interest of the balanced budget amendment -- except for the military. The military represents 60% of military spending....so that is yuuuuge.

Military intelligence is far more trustworthy than CIA/NSA/DoS, if only because there are FORCED "term limits"... so I wouldn't worry too much about that one.


The Militarybudget this year will be some 619billion, out of the 4 trillion or so the government spends every year... so it's more like 20% or less

Our entitlement programs are basically twice the military budget......

[TargeT]

This reminds me of a quote I read once....

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by De la supériorité des mœurs sur les lois (1831)
he best laws cannot make a constitution work in spite of morals; morals can turn the worst laws to advantage. That is a commonplace truth, but one to which my studies are always bringing me back. It is the central point in my conception. I see it at the end of all my reflections.

Or maybe more to the point:

Posted by ?????
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

Look at the right half of that pie chart, ENTIRELY "largess out of the public treasury" and there, we see painted our future re-structure (or collapse) in bright orange and dark blue.

[WhiteLove]

The reason why the pie chart looks like the unemployment and health spending is the real issue, is that it is not valued against the income or outcome the spending is going to generate, nor does it account for why the spending takes place to begin with. So it kind of becomes a false illusion of what the issue is. Then on top of that there are expense categories that are unnecessary, the military spending category is one of them. (true globally) So it is kind of like this: Let's first fix the obvious issues, then let's have a look at what the pie chart shows... (spending is an investment)

Plus there are things on this pie chart that are obviously totally messed up, like for instance spending 3 times more on the interest on debt than on the housing/society and the military to environment being in a 16:1 ratio.

Beyond this, I wonder if it is even true data... probably not

I bet that if we would have a true pie chart like this on a global scale, we would be like: wh-wh-what?!! The jaws would drop and we would think about why even bother with education and stuff when this is how we invest in our future...

[Helene West]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
DNA, 'splain his closeness with Israel, his demonizing Iran (serves Israel) and also please explain how you know that he is not close to military intelligence. Also, keeping the sequester on all agencies, in the interest of the balanced budget amendment -- except for the military. The military represents 60% of military spending....so that is yuuuuge.

Military intelligence is far more trustworthy than CIA/NSA/DoS, if only because there are FORCED "term limits"... so I wouldn't worry too much about that one.


The Militarybudget this year will be some 619billion, out of the 4 trillion or so the government spends every year... so it's more like 20% or less

Our entitlement programs are basically twice the military budget......

good chart. saving it as I love 'education-at-a-glance'!

[TargeT]

Posted by WhiteLove (here)
like for instance spending 3 times more on the interest on debt than on the housing/society and the military to environment being in a 16:1 ratio.

To me, that means we should nationalize the fed, and default on all other debts...

What will our debtors really do?

Example:


But then, I'm a "circle the wagons" and "fix your self first" type of guy...

I think our military spending is a bit high, I'd get rid of every base that is not on US soil, which I figure would cut the budget in half, or at least 1/3.

Posted by WhiteLove (here)
Beyond this, I wonder if it is even true data... probably not

as true as the Dept of Treasury reports... I'm sure there's some stuff left off or at least obscured.... but over all (black budgets funded by drug / arms sales aside...) this is what the US government spends.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
While I totally agree with your concerns about Trump's appointees, and I completely disagree with you laying the blame on Avalonians on this one. And one might conclude that you are implying it is a tragedy that we didn't get the ever so lovely Hillary Clinton instead.

Project Avalon is not the Trump cheering squad. Many of us found him preferable, or at least, no worse to Hillary. Some of us had enthusiasm for some of the issues he was raising (ending the TPP, questioning 9-11).

And as much as I will oppose and criticize the Trump Presidency, I will say that a few things seem to be going better because of him:

• the TPP and the TTIP, two of the most evil corporatist scams to swindle the wealth of many great nations and stifle free market competition and human rights in favor of cronyistic multinational corporations, are probably now dead.
  
• the likelihood that ISIS or the Salafist "Jabhat Fateh al-Sham" will take over the country is a whole lot less likely. Perhaps Trumps presidency might have something to do with the fact that Aleppo has been liberated.
  
• Hard to estimate what the likelihood of a war with Iran is now, but if it happens, there will be a lot more opposition from the left than if Hillary was conducting it.
  
• Liberal America, that fell asleep while Obama assassinated the first American citizen without a trial, expanded drone attacks, brought about regime change in Libya, increased weapons sales to the Saudis and allowed them to bomb Yemen, etc. etc. etc. is now awake. If Bush had done any of these things there would have been great outrage . Now they might wake up again, if they can figure out what is really wrong with Trump and not get distracted by the "Pussygate" type issues.
  
• The politics that the American political and military machine are pursuing are aggressive, mean and nasty. Instead of a smooth talking Obama or Hillary, we have someone whose demeanor seems to match it's naked greed and mean spiritedness more closely.

Good points. Thank you.

[shaberon]

I see no reason to doubt the pie chart, "interest" being considered the largest "single" item on it--that one is lose-lose.

As for the proposed cabinet, one could say Mr. Tillerson is interested in cooperating with Russia to exploit the Arctic oil. Also, I'm not sure I would understand why we would want a Defense Secretary--or a Commander-in-Chief--with no military background. Talk about hiring "outside management". Theoretically, the military is supposed to respond to Congress, who responds to their constituents--not saying it often works that way, but that's the civilian oversight, according to design.

There isn't any real likelihood of war with Iran. Although there are about 35 bases near it, most of those would be dust in thirty minutes. One could, perhaps, press Israel into attempting it, for a trial run. I think they would reap similar results. This is more or less a given when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of missiles that can make right angle turns at Mach 5; no need for nuclear warheads to be used.

I have no particular support for the incoming officials, if "anti-Federalist since 1787" were a platform, that's what I'd be standing on.

[AutumnW]

Target, Where's the prison system hiding in that pie? It's a pie without whipped scream.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Target, Where's the prison system hiding in that pie? It's a pie without whipped scream.

Good question, that's a roughly 75-80 billion a year, but I think most of that is state run, the Federal government is spending like 9 billion. The federal government maintains only about 150 prisons.

[DNA]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
DNA, 'splain his closeness with Israel, his demonizing Iran (serves Israel) and also please explain how you know that he is not close to military intelligence.

As explained by Target I have absolutely no problem with military intelligence.
As a matter of fact if he is going to have any success what so ever he is going to have to get his intelligence from somewhere other than the CIA/NSA/homeland security.


The deal with Israel is this, there is no going back. Israel was created, armed and funded by the USA, there is no going back on this. I'm not a fan of any of the armed conflicts the USA has been in since 9/11, but backing Israel is a different story.

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Also, keeping the sequester on all agencies, in the interest of the balanced budget amendment -- except for the military. The military represents 60% of federal spending....so that is yuuuuge.

This isn't the military's fault really, this is the military industrial complex, the civilian side of the military and they are in bed with the CIA/NSA. It is these intelligence agencies who lie and keep America going to war in the Middle East. There is an agenda but it has nothing to do with what has been stated in so far as the media is concerned. It all has to do with the petrol dollar. It is not sustainable, and the American people need to wake up and understand what is really going on and why America is really in the middle east.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4

[shaberon]

The Zionist settlements were thrown in there by the UK as a wedge to keep the Ottoman Empire away from Saudi Arabia. No other reason.

I don't personally like oil, although I would not be alive without it. See what "the people" do in Mexico over a 25% price increase. The U. S. does need to figure out how to "play fair" over there, since the petro-dollar is inevitably going to wither, compounding the problem serves no useful purpose. It is, as they say, like a trapped, wounded animal lashing out at whatever's near. So they need to start looking at it in terms of: there not being a Saudi Arabia. The oil will still be there, but most likely a power vacuum.