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Thread: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

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    United States Avalon Retired Member JChombre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    @happyuk

    according to Weston A. Price the food source with by far the highest cholesterol level is...

    mothers' breast milk-

    if mother nature is not right, why would mother nature provide new-borns with high cholesterol levels?

    Larry

    Hi Cardillac, excellent question!

    There is a lot of confusion with the word “cholesterol” because it can mean something positive or something negative.

    So for the sake of simplicity, we will use “cholesterol molecule” when the word “cholesterol” is used in a positive way.

    And we will use “excess LDL-cholesterol” or simply “excess LDL” when the word “cholesterol” is used in a negative way


    Figure 1. Chemical Formula of Cholesterol Molecule


    Life is not possible without the cholesterol molecule
    [/SIZE]


    So, to answer your question, Mother Earth is right (she always is!) as she makes women’s milk with the highest concentration of the cholesterol molecule (Figure 1).

    The reason is that, as the baby grows, he needs the huge amounts of cholesterol molecules from his mother’s milk to make the cell parts that are needed to build the new cells that his growing body needs.

    To be more precise, cholesterol molecules from the mother’s milk are used to build the following cell parts: cell membranes, steroid hormones, vitamin D, and bile acids.

    The cholesterol molecule is one of the most abundant chemical found in human/mammalian cells. It accounts for about 50% of all the molecules that make up a human cell, or about 20% of the cell weight since it is a small molecule.

    On a daily basis an adult body makes about 1 gram (1,000 mg) of cholesterol molecules, and from a US diet ingests 200-300mg.

    In conclusion, life is not possible without the cholesterol molecule.



    Figure 2. LDL Particle


    “Excess LDL-Cholesterol” is a major problem because it forms plaques in blood vessels (atherosclerosis) that prevent normal blood flow and may lead to major health issues

    Cholesterol and other fat molecules are packaged into spherical particles called “lipoproteins”, as shown above in Figure 2 of an LDL particle.

    Lipoproteins are very important for the body because they are used to carry fats throughout the body wherever they are needed.

    There are 4 different type of lipoproteins but we are focusing only on two of them: LDL and HDL.

    As shown in Figure 2, except for apoprotein B-100 which is a protein, the rest of the LDL particle is full of fat products.

    The LDL particle can also be called LDL-cholesterol or simply LDL. On the same token, the HDL particle is also called HDL-cholesterol or HDL.




    Figure 3. Plaque (in yellow) formed by excess LDL-cholesterol in a blood vessel


    Figure 3 shows a plaque (in yellow) formed by the accumulation of excess LDL-cholesterol in a blood vessel.

    This plaque will prevent the normal flow of blood, and may lead to a heart attack if the obstruction is located in the heart. In the brain this may cause a stroke…

    That is why on the one hand, LDL-cholesterol is known as the bad cholesterol.

    On the other hand, HDL-cholesterol is known as the good cholesterol because it removes LDL-cholesterol (the bad cholesterol) from plaques and move it to the liver where it is cleared.

    In a nutshell, life is not possible without cholesterol and other fats but too much of these products can cause atherosclerosis and its associated coronary and cerebrovascular diseases.

    Therefore, fats (including cholesterol) play a critical role in the development of atherosclerosis and its associated coronary and cerebrovascular diseases.

    Be doubtful of highly educated people who claim that fats (including cholesterol) are not important in the development of atherosclerosis and its associated coronary and cerebrovascular diseases.

    If you have coronary or cerebrovascular disease be proactive and do something about it even if it doesn't hurt. Don't wait for an event to occur before you move

    You can go on a diet to lower your dietary cholesterol/fats, sugars, or proteins... or do whatever works for you, or has been recommended by your healthcare providers.

    In underdeveloped countries, the incidence of obesity and heart diseases is lower than in developing countries like the US.

    This is mainly due to diets rich in complex sugars (ex. vegetables) and low in refined ones (ex. ice cream); and low in meats and dairy products.

    In addition, people in poor countries eat much smaller meals than those consumed in developed countries.

    So we are suggesting that you gradually reduced the size of your meals to enhance your diets. You will be pleasantly surprised by the results.
    Last edited by JChombre; 3rd April 2017 at 03:54. Reason: To correct spelling mistakes and make adjustments

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    .....no doubt Bob Harper felt equally confident of his dietary choices until he almost did die of a heart attack at the grand old age of 51...
    In my opinion in the video isn't nearly enough information to tell why Bob Harper got an heart attack.

    Another simple explanation could be an infection/a flu that weakend his heart muscle. I know quite a number of people who died just from that (jogging/exercising or just simply working at their desk and dropping dead - from heart attack/heart failure because they ignored their sickness or simply thought they had recovered enough to do business as usual.
    Of course I could be completely wrong with my assuptions - as I wrote before, there is not enough information in the video.

    And there definitely is not enough information to blame eggs/cholestrol!

    A familiy memeber is overweight, eats meat/eggs and high fat every day. He had only a brief period with cholestrol issues (I believe 3-5 years) when I tried to put him on low fat and tried to keep animal protein away from him. Now, at the end of his 50ties his heart condition was checked including CT, MRT, heart catheter and not the slightest sign of arteriosclerosis. They told him he has a heart (including all the surroundigs - arheries, heart coronary vessels...) of a young man. Oh, and he smoked heavily for 20 years.

    Talking about genetics: all his family - parents, siblings have heart issuses. So hurray to the epigenetics!

    That was the story his doctors were interested in (because they were so surprised about his heart condition). What they were not interested in: supplements!
    He has been on high dose of just about everything for the past 10 years.
    High dose omega 3, vit c 10-20g a day, d3 10.000iU, k2.....
    Vit e and k2 are known to help the body get rif of plaque. Pauling (18g/day vit c from his 50ies till he died in his 90ies) had arheries of a young men in his 90ies a.s.o.
    Do I know it was the supplements that did the job? No, but I think they could have played a big part.
    But I can definitely say eggs did not harm him (or me). We use 20-30 eggs a week/ every week between the two of us! As long as i can remember.
    So it always depends on how one interprets the information and what questions one asks.

    Two reasons people might react negatively to eggs:
    - vaccines (they are simply "telling" the body - there comes something "bad" so you better should put up your line of defense. All this thanks to aluminum and other adjuvants)
    - leaky gut (foreign protein gets into the blood stream and causes all kinds of havoc)

    To test it: Just eat 2-3 eggs plain (without grain, vegetables etc.) and watch how you feel afterwards (bloating? Energy level?...)

    Greetings
    Suwesi

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Quote Posted by suwesi (here)
    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    .....no doubt Bob Harper felt equally confident of his dietary choices until he almost did die of a heart attack at the grand old age of 51...
    In my opinion in the video isn't nearly enough information to tell why Bob Harper got an heart attack.....
    Granted, anecdotal examples aren’t really going to help in discovering the truth in this kind of scenario, whether they concern Bob Harper, you and your relative or HappyUK. Hence the need for peer-reviewed, independent (stressed for good reason - see second video!) studies looking at large numbers of people per study (which do already exist in abundance).

    The following short and very informative videos are all structured around information presented by such studies.

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    United States Avalon Retired Member JChombre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    [QUOTE=Akasha;1144052]
    Quote Posted by suwesi (here)
    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    .....no doubt Bob Harper felt equally confident of his dietary choices until he almost did die of a heart attack at the grand old age of 51...
    Hence the need for peer-reviewed, independent studies looking at large numbers of people per study.

    The following short and very informative videos are all structured around information presented by such studies.

    Thank you Akasha. Besides Linda Moulton Howe's, Richard Dolan's, ... Bill & Kerry's videos, I just tend not to watch hour-long videos anymore. So I appreciate your posting these excellent, highly informative, short videos.

    And you are absolutely right! It is important to have peer-reviewed studies reviewed independently in an unbiased way by a competent person who understands how clinical trials and studies are designed and run. These videos address these issues.

    The meta-analysis is very impressive, and so is the study with some 3,000 African American subjects affected by a genetic mutation that keeps their LDL-cholesterol low. Impressive, out of this world p-value in the last study.

    However, the sad thing here is that a lot of people are not going to watch or will just dismiss your videos because they don't support the "cholesterol myth" or whatever conspiracy theory that they believe in...but all we can do is present the data !!!

    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

    Regards,

    JC
    Last edited by JChombre; 2nd April 2017 at 23:57.

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    @Akasha/JChombre

    I never, ever/didn't publish a video by anyone on this topic; from where are you getting your info?- I just simply stated my own personal opinion-

    Larry

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    .....I just simply stated my own personal opinion-

    Larry
    I know you did, Larry.
    Last edited by Akasha; 3rd April 2017 at 21:51.
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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    @Akasha/JChombre

    I never, ever/didn't publish a video by anyone on this topic; from where are you getting your info?- I just simply stated my own personal opinion-

    Larry

    Larry,

    There is a little bit of a misunderstanding here because no one is acting on the assumption or belief that you have published a video on cholesterol.

    You made a very pertinent remark on this topic, and we are simply elaborating on what you said.

    We disagree with the op and provide the information that supports our position that fats (including cholesterol) are responsible for atherosclerosis and should be handled properly.

    This information is common knowledge in the scientific world and has been available even before 1984 when Brown and Goldstein were awarded the nobel price of medicine and physiology for their work on cholesterol metabolism..

    However, we agree that sugars are important because along with excess proteins, they can be converted into fats, then stored in the body, and indirectly contribute to the development of atherosclerosis.

    Our posts have some info on the importance of cholesterol in atherosclerosis.

    Regards,

    JC
    Last edited by JChombre; 6th April 2017 at 19:25.

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    I watched the videos akasha postet and read through Jchombres explanation. My impression is that there are some misunderstandings.

    1. Yes, I think we all agree - certain type of cholestrol might clog arteries - no doubt about that

    2. It depends on the size of the ldl molecule if someone is in danger of clogging his/her arteries (Pattern A type are the larger, fluffy ones. Pattern B the smaller, denser sticky ones. Type B usually comes with low hdl and raised triglycerides).

    3. a cholestrol lab test as stand alone doesn't say anything - if the artery wall is smooth nothing will stick! As far as I know you need 3-4 other values (triglycerids + values that show inflamation) to be able to say if there is a risk of a cardio vascular disease. I believe in Europe it is meanwhile official in the guidelines for cardiologists?! (No idea how they do it in the US/Canada)

    4. We all agree: if you are in danger of cardio vascular disease - do something about it! (Liefestyle change, Vitamins to stop inflamation..). And yes, I do believe from the studies that are out (and from who paid for them) that statins are the worst option only better than heart attack/stroke (I am not sure if we all agree on that?)

    In the books I read (see at the end of this post) they come to the conclusion, that the only ones that might have a benefit from statins are those patients that already had a heart attack/stroke. Benefit meaning living longer. Not meaning quality of life.

    Statins lower both A and B Type LDL. Niacin (Vitamin B3) helps to transform B to A type. (2004, swiss med forum - http://global-4-lvs-turing.opera-min...004-50-182.pdf)

    The nutritionfact.org videos did not help a lot (at least not me). The information seems to be outdated - he always talks about "good" hdl and "bad" ldl - that is old school.
    Eggs raising cholestrol? Yes. Ok. But again - small or large particles? We will never know, he does not tell.

    Nowadays you have thousands of living "egg-case-studies" running around. Some on low carb/high fat are surprised when they get their first bloodwork done once they switched to low carb/high fat and boom: Cholestrol got higher. What the..? LDL rises on lchf (along with HDL). But - it's the large particles and the dangerous co-factors (those showing inflammation) go down.
    If you are interested look into the lchf forums you'll find tons of posts discussing just that. Does it mean they do/do not get clogged arteries? Only time will tell.

    So is it the eggs or the carbs that harm? We don't know. The studies the nutritionfact.org guy mentions do not ask the right questions (or he just does not pick out the right information) - at least in my opinion. Were the consumed eggs consumed mostly as a fried/scrambled egg (without sugar!), were they in a cake?
    The studies do not not ask the right questions....!

    I really had to laugh about the "nutritionfact.org theory" that not 1 real doctor world wide could be found to help the "egg-lobby" so they had to highjack an e-mail adress of an academic person to lobby for their eggs. How ridiculous. If you take 1 minute of your time you will find that for any drug, "trash" or not there are tons of real doctors giving their name (not officially to the patients, but on congresses - so it all works with help of opinion leaders that work as key-note spekers at medical congresses).

    In the german speaking part of europe there is a group of doctors that say "we pay for our lunch ourselves" - meaning, they do not cooperate with pharma companies. They are just a handfull (they also pay for their congresses themselves). All the rest gets invited (=payed) to go to a congress by pharma companies.
    So again - you really believe the egg lobby could not find 1, again 1 single medical doctor (out of millions) to support them? Maybe they tried to pay with eggs
    So for me the nurtritionfact.org videos are not trustworthy. sorry.


    My sources of information are (unfortunately for this forum) german: "Die Cholesterinlüge" - by Prof. Dr. Hartenbach and "Das Märchen vom bösen Cholesterin" by René Gräber. Both excellent - maybe useful for the german speaking forum members. They both analyze tons of studies (+ tell who financed them) and still manage to make a readable book.
    About pharma industry "buying" the whole medical world: "Die Pharma Falle" Dr. Aboulenein (hopefuly at least this one will get translated, it is an eye opener.)
    Last edited by suwesi; 8th April 2017 at 05:21. Reason: edited type a/b ldl

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    Default Re: Dr. Jonny Bowden: "The Great Cholesterol Myth"

    Hello Suwesi,

    It is great that you understand that people with coronary heart disease (CHD) need to address​ this issue. It is one of the things that I'm trying to convey in my posts.

    As I have indicated in my previous posts, how and what people do to address their CHD issues is not my business. They can use whoever and whatever they want to deal with this issue. It is their lives, not mine.

    There are 50+ years of scientific peer-reviewed data on cholesterol available in the public domain. Please use this information to educate yourself first, and then answer your questions and address your issues.

    The link given underneath provide the 2016 NCEP guidelines used in medicine in the US for the treatment of dyslipidemias:


    https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs...s/atglance.pdf


    Regards

    JC
    Last edited by JChombre; 14th April 2017 at 22:45.

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