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Thread: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Thank you all for your interest and contributions

    According to Wikipedia:
    Monument Valley
    Geography and geology

    The area is part of the Colorado Plateau. The elevation of the valley floor ranges from 5,000 to 6,000 feet (1,500 to 1,800 m) above sea level. The floor is largely siltstone of the Cutler Group, or sand derived from it, deposited by the meandering rivers that carved the valley. The valley's vivid red color comes from iron oxide exposed in the weathered siltstone. The darker, blue-gray rocks in the valley get their color from manganese oxide.

    The buttes are clearly stratified, with three principal layers. The lowest layer is the Organ Rock Shale, the middle is de Chelly Sandstone, and the top layer is the Moenkopi Formation capped by Shinarump Conglomerate. The valley includes large stone structures including the famed "Eye of the Sun".
    That the buttes are clearly stratified is indicative that the stratification occurred as a sedimentation process in a water environment such as a sea or an ocean and which are now found atop the elevated Colorado Plateau from an ancient ocean continental shelf or continental sea basin:
    One of the most geologically intriguing features of the Colorado Plateau is its remarkable stability. Relatively little rock deformation such as faulting and folding has affected this high, thick crustal block within the last 600 million years or so. In contrast, provinces that have suffered severe deformation surround the plateau.
    [...]
    By 600 million years ago North America had been leveled off to a remarkably smooth surface.

    Throughout the Paleozoic Era, tropical seas periodically inundated the Colorado Plateau region. Thick layers of limestone, sandstone, siltstone, and shale were laid down in the shallow marine waters. During times when the seas retreated, stream deposits and dune sands were deposited or older layers were removed by erosion. Over 300 million years passed as layer upon layer of sediment accumulated.

    It was not until the upheavals that coincided with the formation of the supercontinent Pangea began about 250 million years ago that deposits of marine sediment waned and terrestrial deposits dominate.
    [...]
    Later a vast desert formed the Navajo and Temple Cap formations and dry near-shore environment formed the Carmel (see geology of the Zion and Kolob canyons area for details).

    The area was again covered by a warm shallow sea when the Cretaceous Seaway opened in late Mesozoic time. The Dakota Sandstone and the Tropic Shale were deposited in the warm shallow waters of this advancing and retreating seaway. Several other formations were also created but were mostly eroded following two major periods of uplift.
    [...]
    Tectonic activity resumed in Mid Cenozoic time and started to unevenly uplift and slightly tilt the Colorado Plateau region and the region to the west some 20 million years ago (as much as 3 kilometers of uplift occurred). Streams had their gradient increased and they responded by downcutting faster. Headward erosion and mass wasting helped to erode cliffs back into their fault-bounded plateaus, widening the basins in-between. Some plateaus have been so severely reduced in size this way that they become mesas or even buttes. Monoclines form as a result of uplift bending the rock units. Eroded monoclines leave steeply tilted resistant rock called a hogback and the less steep version is a cuesta.
    [...]
    Eventually, the great block of Colorado Plateau crust rose a kilometer higher than the Basin and Range. As the land rose, the streams responded by cutting ever deeper stream channels. The most well-known of these streams, the Colorado River, began to carve the Grand Canyon less than 6 million years ago in response to sagging caused by the opening of the Gulf of California to the southwest.

    The Pleistocene epoch brought periodic ice ages and a cooler, wetter climate. This increased erosion at higher elevations with the introduction of alpine glaciers while mid-elevations were attacked by frost wedging and lower areas by more vigorous stream scouring. Pluvial lakes also formed during this time. Glaciers and pluvial lakes disappeared and the climate warmed and became drier with the start of Holocene epoch.
    I don't have any grand explanations/theories for the "obvious" that a huge amount of rock material was once there and has now gone "missing

    As for the flash floods explanation of the Grand Canyon, there is this big stumbling block to it:





    Horseshoe Bend Arizona






    The Goosenecks of the San Juan River, San Juan County, Utah

    ... that's the preservation of meanders... which shouldn't be there but punched through in the case of a powerful flash flood carving up the Colorado River bed.

    The above pictures show that said rivers preserved the initial meanders; it just deepened it right on the spot of the original footprint.

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    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Thanks Hervé, good point. Meanders are an interesting phenomenon, associated with sluggish water with hardly any gradient, such as deltas: the exact opposite of flash floods. They take the line of least resistance, which would mean that once a river bed has been begun, they will naturally continue along that lower path of least resistance; this habit forming so that a river may hit harder ground than it would have done at a higher point, but depth comes first. Crossing a delta, on the other hand, nothing is carved in stone, since it is all sand and pretty much levelling up all the time, hence no course is better than any other and river beds tend to wander. I read somewhere years ago that the relationship between the distance covered by meanders and a straight line averages out equal to pi, meaning that a river will go round in circles just to ensure minimum resistance to its flow (the same principle is at work in a pulley). Flooding on the other hand will take the shortest route, which may even at times be vertically upwards, working against gravity. The difference lies in the amount of energy involved, which is inversely proportional to the time available. So I would agree that meandering river beds are totally incompatible with catastrophist theories.


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    Avalon Member animovado's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Looking at the pictures you posted and the question of where all this rock has been gone and the huge amount of water that eroded the lands, I remembered Frank Waters "Book of the Hopi" and Joseph F. Blumrichs "Kásskara and the seven worlds". There is no english or french edition of the latter, just the german (ironically it's translated from the American), but you'll find here an english and an french excerpt.
    In this book the hopi elder explains how their fourth world, the americas of today, emerged from the ocean and has been settled from South America and how the Wisconsin glaciation prevented migration from the north. Both natural phenomena include lots of water.
    Last edited by animovado; 18th April 2017 at 15:03.

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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...]
    Because one can follow, from butte to butte, the same sedimentary layers - bottom, middle and top - that are not in between them anymore: it's all gone!!!

    I have no answer for where did it all go, except, maybe, into the Gulf of Mexico; nor do I know what abraded/eroded that enormous volume of rock except, maybe, a huge amount of water for a very long time... well, that's a lot of water!
    [...]
    About that water, here is a very interesting tidbit from a P. Lescaudron article I posted here (<---):

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...]

    While researching the topic of the frozen mammoths, I discovered an unexpected anomaly. The Younger Dryas was a 1400-year global cooling period (see red curve on the right) which led to an increase in the size of ice sheets.


    Sea level VS global temperature (20000BP-Now)

    However during the same time (13000BP-11500BP) sea levels rose by about 20 meters (from -70 to -50m).

    Cooling usually means an increase in ice sheet size that leads to a drop in sea level (the sea water being transformed into ice). Yet during the Younger Dryas, the exact opposite happened.

    Where did all this extra water come from?

    [...]
    ... the above basically means that water evaporated from oceans got trapped within ice sheets and glaciers, hence not re-circulated back into oceans which would normally lead to a drop of oceans level.

    So, not only was there enough ADDITIONAL water to compensate for the frozen water trapped in ice sheets but more than enough to raise ocean levels by 20 meters on top of the removed water!

    Hmmmm... maybe there is something to NASA's insistence in considering comets as being balls of "dirty ice"...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...



    i was thinking they look like giant petrified trees,, very ancient...

    jake
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Dry Falls – Video

    By Robert August 15, 2017

    Nick on the Rocks –

    One of the largest waterfalls in the history of earth.

    Ten times the combined flow of all the rivers on earth.

    _________________________
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...]
    About that water, here is a very interesting tidbit from a P. Lescaudron article I posted here (<---):

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...]
    While researching the topic of the frozen mammoths, I discovered an unexpected anomaly. The Younger Dryas was a 1400-year global cooling period (see red curve on the right) which led to an increase in the size of ice sheets.


    Sea level VS global temperature (20000BP-Now)

    However during the same time (13000BP-11500BP) sea levels rose by about 20 meters (from -70 to -50m).

    Cooling usually means an increase in ice sheet size that leads to a drop in sea level (the sea water being transformed into ice). Yet during the Younger Dryas, the exact opposite happened.

    Where did all this extra water come from?
    [...]
    Regarding this water level anomaly, Pierre Lescaudron expanded quite a bit on it in this long but comprehensive and excellent new article:
    Did Earth Steal Martian Water?

    Pierre Lescaudron Sott.net
    Sat, 14 Sep 2019 18:31 UTC
    Also reposted here: Re: Bolides, Comets, Asteroids, Meteors And Falling Skies
    Last edited by Hervé; 14th September 2019 at 18:48.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

    Electric universe theory.

    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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